Randle Trade Talk

[NoDopeOnSundays]

What an incompetent coach, one of the worst lineups in the league with 20+ games of data and he refuses to change it

[Clyde_Style]

No one wants to put up a game thread anymore?

[Chanel Bomber]

What an incompetent coach, one of the worst lineups in the league with 20+ games of data and he refuses to change it

You know I'm a Thibs critic but I'll cut him some slack in this regard.

The Knicks lack talent. It's a roster full of bench players with a flat distribution of talent.

So any line-up that logs big minutes against opposing starters is bound to get killed.

Having Rose and Mitch would help in the 5 because they're our best players but even with Rose the starters hit a ceiling in the playoffs.

The Knicks just don't have enough efficient players to keep up with opposing starting units on most nights.

[Clyde_Style]

Randle is having a horrendous season but he is better than what he's shown to be. any deal we make for him needs to be for someone who fits with RJ skillset.

RJ isn't good enough to have roster moves made with him in mind.

The Knicks should get the best value for Randle regardless of fit.

The only consistently good players on this roster are Rose and Mitch. One is old, the other will be a UFA (although I'd argue the Knicks should resign him).

Trading Randle has nothing to do with whether or not RJ is any kind of answer. You trade Randle because he is a toxic ahole. We’re not going to be a contender with or without him or due to whom we get back in return. It’s completely irrelevant

RJ’s future status as a Knick is a completely separate issue and independent of considerations for a Randle trade. Almost any incoming player will be a better fit than Randle

[Clyde_Style]

What an incompetent coach, one of the worst lineups in the league with 20+ games of data and he refuses to change it

You know I'm a Thibs critic but I'll cut him some slack in this regard.

The Knicks lack talent. It's a roster full of bench players with a flat distribution of talent.

So any line-up that logs big minutes against opposing starters is bound to get killed.

Having Rose and Mitch would help in the 5 because they're our best players but even with Rose the starters hit a ceiling in the playoffs.

The Knicks just don't have enough efficient players to keep up with opposing starting units on most nights.

Why cut him slack?

He doesn’t hold everyone to the same accountability standards and as a result the players have already tuned him out in just a season and a half. Not a good look for Thibs

[Deeeez Knicks]

Randle is having a horrendous season but he is better than what he's shown to be. any deal we make for him needs to be for someone who fits with RJ skillset.

RJ isn't good enough to have roster moves made with him in mind.

The Knicks should get the best value for Randle regardless of fit.

The only consistently good players on this roster are Rose and Mitch. One is old, the other will be a UFA (although I'd argue the Knicks should resign him).

Trading Randle has nothing to do with whether or not RJ is any kind of answer. You trade Randle because he is a toxic ahole. We’re not going to be a contender with or without him or due to whom we get back in return. It’s completely irrelevant

RJ’s future status as a Knick is a completely separate issue and independent of considerations for a Randle trade. Almost any incoming player will be a better fit than Randle

I would trade Randle for whatever we can get, but we should also def make moves with RJ in mind. Putting pieces that fit next to RJ seem like sensible things that should fit with most builds anyway. He's versatile enough to fit around different pieces, some better then others.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

What an incompetent coach, one of the worst lineups in the league with 20+ games of data and he refuses to change it

You know I'm a Thibs critic but I'll cut him some slack in this regard.

The Knicks lack talent. It's a roster full of bench players with a flat distribution of talent.

So any line-up that logs big minutes against opposing starters is bound to get killed.

Having Rose and Mitch would help in the 5 because they're our best players but even with Rose the starters hit a ceiling in the playoffs.

The Knicks just don't have enough efficient players to keep up with opposing starting units on most nights.

Nah, we not cutting him no slack, simply starting IQ in place of Kemba or Burks would give the starting 5 more balance since IQ can just function a combo guard and add spacing. The fact he went with Burks over IQ is mind blowing, if Burks is a better "PG" than IQ let him lead the 2nd unit while Rose is out.

The Knicks can have a talent issue but we can also have a coach incapable of finding lineups that play to our rosters strengths. The starting 5 does not work, there are other lineups on the team with positive net ratings that should be playing more.

[Chanel Bomber]

Randle is having a horrendous season but he is better than what he's shown to be. any deal we make for him needs to be for someone who fits with RJ skillset.

RJ isn't good enough to have roster moves made with him in mind.

The Knicks should get the best value for Randle regardless of fit.

The only consistently good players on this roster are Rose and Mitch. One is old, the other will be a UFA (although I'd argue the Knicks should resign him).

Trading Randle has nothing to do with whether or not RJ is any kind of answer. You trade Randle because he is a toxic ahole. We’re not going to be a contender with or without him or due to whom we get back in return. It’s completely irrelevant

RJ’s future status as a Knick is a completely separate issue and independent of considerations for a Randle trade. Almost any incoming player will be a better fit than Randle

Yet your post doesn't address anything that I said.

I wanted Randle traded last summer. I want him traded today more than ever, for obvious reasons.

I just said you take the best value in return for Randle regardless of fit with RJ, because RJ isn't good enough to warrant having the roster tailored around him.

[Chanel Bomber]

What an incompetent coach, one of the worst lineups in the league with 20+ games of data and he refuses to change it

You know I'm a Thibs critic but I'll cut him some slack in this regard.

The Knicks lack talent. It's a roster full of bench players with a flat distribution of talent.

So any line-up that logs big minutes against opposing starters is bound to get killed.

Having Rose and Mitch would help in the 5 because they're our best players but even with Rose the starters hit a ceiling in the playoffs.

The Knicks just don't have enough efficient players to keep up with opposing starting units on most nights.

Nah, we not cutting him no slack, simply starting IQ in place of Kemba or Burks would give the starting 5 more balance since IQ can just function a combo guard and add spacing. The fact he went with Burks over IQ is mind blowing, if Burks is a better "PG" than IQ let him lead the 2nd unit while Rose is out.

The Knicks can have a talent issue but we can also have a coach incapable of finding lineups that play to our rosters strengths. The starting 5 does not work, there are other lineups on the team with positive net ratings that should be playing more.

I too would've started IQ - if only for his development or for the sake of experimentation - but I doubt that it would've led to a much different outcome.

[Clyde_Style]

RJ isn't good enough to have roster moves made with him in mind.

The Knicks should get the best value for Randle regardless of fit.

The only consistently good players on this roster are Rose and Mitch. One is old, the other will be a UFA (although I'd argue the Knicks should resign him).

Trading Randle has nothing to do with whether or not RJ is any kind of answer. You trade Randle because he is a toxic ahole. We’re not going to be a contender with or without him or due to whom we get back in return. It’s completely irrelevant

RJ’s future status as a Knick is a completely separate issue and independent of considerations for a Randle trade. Almost any incoming player will be a better fit than Randle

Yet your post doesn't address anything that I said.

I wanted Randle traded last summer. I want him traded today more than ever, for obvious reasons.

I just said you take the best value in return for Randle regardless of fit with RJ, because RJ isn't good enough to warrant having the roster tailored around him.

Aha! OK, thanks for the clarification. I totally agree

[Chanel Bomber]

What an incompetent coach, one of the worst lineups in the league with 20+ games of data and he refuses to change it

You know I'm a Thibs critic but I'll cut him some slack in this regard.

The Knicks lack talent. It's a roster full of bench players with a flat distribution of talent.

So any line-up that logs big minutes against opposing starters is bound to get killed.

Having Rose and Mitch would help in the 5 because they're our best players but even with Rose the starters hit a ceiling in the playoffs.

The Knicks just don't have enough efficient players to keep up with opposing starting units on most nights.

Why cut him slack?

He doesn’t hold everyone to the same accountability standards and as a result the players have already tuned him out in just a season and a half. Not a good look for Thibs

I meant cut him some slack regarding the ineffectiveness of the starting line-up specifically.

I've criticized him for his double-standards and his lack of accountability with certain players since last season. You're 100% right it's not a good look for him.

I always called Thibs a mediocre coach, even when folks were going crazy over his meaningless COY award. None of his shortcomings are surprising to me. But the lack of talent on this roster is the biggest problem, and it falls at the feet of the front office.

[Clyde_Style]

You know I'm a Thibs critic but I'll cut him some slack in this regard.

The Knicks lack talent. It's a roster full of bench players with a flat distribution of talent.

So any line-up that logs big minutes against opposing starters is bound to get killed.

Having Rose and Mitch would help in the 5 because they're our best players but even with Rose the starters hit a ceiling in the playoffs.

The Knicks just don't have enough efficient players to keep up with opposing starting units on most nights.

Nah, we not cutting him no slack, simply starting IQ in place of Kemba or Burks would give the starting 5 more balance since IQ can just function a combo guard and add spacing. The fact he went with Burks over IQ is mind blowing, if Burks is a better "PG" than IQ let him lead the 2nd unit while Rose is out.

The Knicks can have a talent issue but we can also have a coach incapable of finding lineups that play to our rosters strengths. The starting 5 does not work, there are other lineups on the team with positive net ratings that should be playing more.

I too would've started IQ - if only for his development or for the sake of experimentation - but I doubt that it would've led to a much different outcome.

This is likely true. It was the right move, but wouldn’t have moved the needle enough to change many of the game outcomes

[Clyde_Style]

You know I'm a Thibs critic but I'll cut him some slack in this regard.

The Knicks lack talent. It's a roster full of bench players with a flat distribution of talent.

So any line-up that logs big minutes against opposing starters is bound to get killed.

Having Rose and Mitch would help in the 5 because they're our best players but even with Rose the starters hit a ceiling in the playoffs.

The Knicks just don't have enough efficient players to keep up with opposing starting units on most nights.

Why cut him slack?

He doesn’t hold everyone to the same accountability standards and as a result the players have already tuned him out in just a season and a half. Not a good look for Thibs

I meant cut him some slack regarding the ineffectiveness of the starting line-up specifically.

I've criticized him for his double-standards and his lack of accountability with certain players since last season

I always called Thibs a mediocre coach, even when folks were going crazy over his meaningless COY award. None of his shortcomings are surprising to me. But the lack of talent on this roster is the biggest problem, and it falls at the feet of the front office.

Sure, you can be holistic about it and say specifically what is or is not within Thibs control, but even if you discount the shortcomings of the roster I see no reason whatsoever to cut him any slack. He has been terrible this season. His in-game decisions are consistently bad and he rarely can diagram a good play coming out of a time-out. Overall, Thibs is a failure this season regardless of whether the FO failed him

[NoDopeOnSundays]

You know I'm a Thibs critic but I'll cut him some slack in this regard.

The Knicks lack talent. It's a roster full of bench players with a flat distribution of talent.

So any line-up that logs big minutes against opposing starters is bound to get killed.

Having Rose and Mitch would help in the 5 because they're our best players but even with Rose the starters hit a ceiling in the playoffs.

The Knicks just don't have enough efficient players to keep up with opposing starting units on most nights.

Nah, we not cutting him no slack, simply starting IQ in place of Kemba or Burks would give the starting 5 more balance since IQ can just function a combo guard and add spacing. The fact he went with Burks over IQ is mind blowing, if Burks is a better "PG" than IQ let him lead the 2nd unit while Rose is out.

The Knicks can have a talent issue but we can also have a coach incapable of finding lineups that play to our rosters strengths. The starting 5 does not work, there are other lineups on the team with positive net ratings that should be playing more.

I too would've started IQ - if only for his development or for the sake of experimentation - but I doubt that it would've led to a much different outcome.

We'll never know because he won't do it, but it's just too easy to dismiss our issues solely as talent, we're in 12th in the East, our coach has given 383 minutes to a lineup that is now -16.6. IQ is part of pretty much all of our top lineups, he's in 3 of our top 5 2 man lineups. I'm not even that high on IQ because he's not a PG, but he's clearly suited to play with the starting 5 and improve them.

Any coach with a hint of knowledge into analytics would not keep trotting out that starting lineup, it is awful and changing it with different players would in definitely show improvements.

[Chanel Bomber]

Why cut him slack?

He doesn’t hold everyone to the same accountability standards and as a result the players have already tuned him out in just a season and a half. Not a good look for Thibs

I meant cut him some slack regarding the ineffectiveness of the starting line-up specifically.

I've criticized him for his double-standards and his lack of accountability with certain players since last season

I always called Thibs a mediocre coach, even when folks were going crazy over his meaningless COY award. None of his shortcomings are surprising to me. But the lack of talent on this roster is the biggest problem, and it falls at the feet of the front office.

Sure, you can be holistic about it and say specifically what is or is not within Thibs control, but even if you discount the shortcomings of the roster I see no reason whatsoever to cut him any slack. He has been terrible this season. His in-game decisions are consistently bad and he rarely can diagram a good play coming out of a time-out. Overall, Thibs is a failure this season regardless of whether the FO failed him

I agree that Thibs has been awful this season.

Still stuck with his conventional line-ups and fixed rotations. Still married to his sacrosanct rim protection no matter the situation. Still holding IQ and Obi to a different standard than the rest of the team. Threw Randle to the wolves by leaving him on the floor in the 4th quarter of a game that was already decided shortly after the thumbs down incident - thus unnecessarily adding fuel to the fire. Shamed a respected player in Kemba by pulling him from the rotation overnight despite the lack of point guard options on the roster. The list goes on and on.

But I'm not blaming the inefficiency of the starting line-up entirely on him. I think it is mostly the byproduct of this team's roster construction, in addition to the regression of some of the players.

[2010]

Watch on YouTube

This was a great listen. Thibs needs to give JVG a call.

[TheGreenArrow]

According to berman………………………..

“According to an NBA source, Knicks coach Tom Thibodeau has admitted to associates he’s had more trouble getting Randle to play with a selflessness this season than during last season.

Some in the organization believe Randle’s signing the $117 million contract extension has made him feel he’s got to do more scoring to live up to the pact.”

Interesting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Chanel Bomber]

Nah, we not cutting him no slack, simply starting IQ in place of Kemba or Burks would give the starting 5 more balance since IQ can just function a combo guard and add spacing. The fact he went with Burks over IQ is mind blowing, if Burks is a better "PG" than IQ let him lead the 2nd unit while Rose is out.

The Knicks can have a talent issue but we can also have a coach incapable of finding lineups that play to our rosters strengths. The starting 5 does not work, there are other lineups on the team with positive net ratings that should be playing more.

I too would've started IQ - if only for his development or for the sake of experimentation - but I doubt that it would've led to a much different outcome.

We'll never know because he won't do it, but it's just too easy to dismiss our issues solely as talent, we're in 12th in the East, our coach has given 383 minutes to a lineup that is now -16.6. IQ is part of pretty much all of our top lineups, he's in 3 of our top 5 2 man lineups. I'm not even that high on IQ because he's not a PG, but he's clearly suited to play with the starting 5 and improve them.

Any coach with a hint of knowledge into analytics would not keep trotting out that starting lineup, it is awful and changing it with different players would in definitely show improvements.

I agree that IQ would fit better with the starters than Burks. But to be fair he hasn't been efficient himself this year either. And putting him in the starting line-up then weakens our bench, which has been the driving force behind this team's success for the past two years (along with our defense last year).

I hate the way Thibs has handled IQ's playing time since the beginning of last season, but his success comes mostly against bench units.

I agree that IQ should be starting, and that we are wasting an opportunity for development or experimentation, but I'm just skeptical about the idea that the outcome would be much different.

[TheGreenArrow]

Randle is having a horrendous season but he is better than what he's shown to be. any deal we make for him needs to be for someone who fits with RJ skillset.

RJ isn't good enough to have roster moves made with him in mind.

The Knicks should get the best value for Randle regardless of fit.

The only consistently good players on this roster are Rose and Mitch. One is old, the other will be a UFA (although I'd argue the Knicks should resign him).

We don’t know that Chanel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Clyde_Style]

I meant cut him some slack regarding the ineffectiveness of the starting line-up specifically.

I've criticized him for his double-standards and his lack of accountability with certain players since last season

I always called Thibs a mediocre coach, even when folks were going crazy over his meaningless COY award. None of his shortcomings are surprising to me. But the lack of talent on this roster is the biggest problem, and it falls at the feet of the front office.

Sure, you can be holistic about it and say specifically what is or is not within Thibs control, but even if you discount the shortcomings of the roster I see no reason whatsoever to cut him any slack. He has been terrible this season. His in-game decisions are consistently bad and he rarely can diagram a good play coming out of a time-out. Overall, Thibs is a failure this season regardless of whether the FO failed him

I agree that Thibs has been awful this season.

Still stuck with his conventional line-ups and fixed rotations. Still married to his sacrosanct rim protection no matter the situation. Still holding IQ and Obi to a different standard than the rest of the team. Threw Randle to the wolves by leaving him on the floor in the 4th quarter of a game that was already decided shortly after the thumbs down incident - thus unnecessarily adding fuel to the fire. Shamed a respected player in Kemba by pulling him from the rotation overnight despite the lack of point guard options on the roster. The list goes on and on.

But I'm not blaming the inefficiency of the starting line-up entirely on him. I think it is mostly the byproduct of this team's roster construction, in addition to the regression of some of the players.

Let’s put it this way

If you had a better roster you could probably live with Thibs for a while longer, though it would never optimize that roster

Whatever the roster is next year, replacing Thibs with an up and coming talented coach would be ideal