Randle Trade Talk

[Chanel Bomber]

You were mad at him because he played the vets too much down the home stretch when we knew we weren’t going to make the playoffs. He was just trying to get the job.

I never blamed him for that. A coach's mandate is to win games. He did a pretty good job considering the circumstances.

He struck me as conservative in his philosophy though, and he seemed to hold the vets to a different standard as well (particularly Payton and Bullock who was awful that one season), although our youth was pretty terrible anyway.

I blame the FO for not tanking the season, but that's a moot point because arguably the best talent in the draft (imo) was still on the board when the Knicks made their pick.

[mademan]

That is selling the the asset short, very short. Randle is not a negative asset. He’s on a fair long term deal and the Kings have issues getting people to join their team.

So unless they send back Fox or Haliburton the Knicks should maximize their returns and get that high draft pick. Ask yourself would they have put a protection for Ben;” I haven’t played all season” Simmons?

I don't see Randle as a positive asset right now. He wont be a positive asset again if he keeps playing like this which is possible. i would def try to get a pick and as much back as we can. But if we can't get picks i would settle for expirings/shorter contracts….especially getting Barnes who may even be an upgrade over the Randle of this year

I thought the Kings stepped out of the Simmons trade talks cause the sixers demands were too high. Nobody may trade for Simmons unless they come down in price. They probably should have moved him sooner

I have to disagree. We’ve had injury prone guys, guys on the wrong side of 30, guys with criminal cases, guys whose contracts were way outside of their production. Those are contracts you settle for a protected pick on and are thankful for. Fournier and Burks based on their production I can see them settling on heavy protections on a pick or second for.

Randle is still putting up 18/10/6, age 27, great health, a year from being an All-Star, and MIP…. But Barnes, an expiring contract, and pick with a protected 1-4 that the has a 40% chance of not conveying equals him because he is having issues with effort?

Imagine the Knicks being on the other side of that trade and you know it doesn’t work. The Knicks got two picks, 1 that was unprotected for KP in the middle of him being out a season and him looking for a Max contract, and sending significant payroll out with him….

Randle for Barnes, Thompson (or Bagley) their 2022 pick (unprotected) and possible future pick swap is more fair. That’s the fair cost for sending them a recent all star and not taking a good player in return. The unprotected is likely a lottery pick unless the kings strike lightning and if it goes top #4 fantastic! The swap might never occur but if it does that is fine. That could also be where they put a protection that would be seen as not being robbed.

Even forgetting the swap. This trade is not about moving Randle, it’s about building a winning team. If that pick doesn’t convey and they get Randle and say a Chet or a Jabari smith the Knicks would have made one of the worst trades in recent NBA history. Internally that is the type of trade that gets FO’s fired.

If they go this route the pick will likely be unprotected.

Bruh Kings arent giving up an unprotected 1st for Randle. You characerize him as "recent all star" which is fair, but most teams will look at him as a guy who's on a huge contract (avg of ~25 mill) for 5 years while having 1 star season, which is very much looking like the outlier here, sandwiched between seasons that range from being a straight up negative to being a decent starter.

If the FO was gonna sell Randle high, that woudlve been last year.

[thebuzzardman]

RJ isn't good enough to have roster moves made with him in mind.

The Knicks should get the best value for Randle regardless of fit.

The only consistently good players on this roster are Rose and Mitch. One is old, the other will be a UFA (although I'd argue the Knicks should resign him).

he was drafted 3rd. give him an environment for him to thrive in and we'll figure out how good he can actually be. that's what you're supposed to do when they're still on a rookie scale contract.

Do you think he hasn't had the environment this season?

The environment factor sounds like an excuse to me. Haliburton plays for Sacramento and he has thrived individually despite playing with a first-option who's even more ball-dominant than Randle. Good players generally find a way to make a positive contribution without needing the roster to be tailored around them. Although I'm not denying that roster construction can affect a player's development - I'm not sure it applies to RJ anymore now that Payton is gone.

I also don't understand why draft position would be relevant by year 3. Draft position doesn't necessarily make you more talented than your teammates.

Also, when does a player development start affecting other players' development? As you acquire more and more young players, their development becomes increasingly intertwined. And RJ impacts the development of Grimes, Quickley, Obi, Mitch, Reddish, and vice versa.

RJ should be expected to help the team before the team should be expected to help RJ. So far, he has fallen short of that expectation. Hopefully he improves.

It's the Frank argument now being applied to Cadillac Ntilikina

[Jay10]

I'm convinced every Mike Miller out of bounds/after time out play was successful, while Thibodeau is out here channeling his inner-david fizdale when it comes to all of his out of bounds/after time out plays being failures.

Mike Miller with little nba coaching experience actually had the courage to put an end to point forward julius, and those damn spin cycle turnovers.

randle was hooping to end the season under miller

Looking back I now see why Phil didn't hire Thibodeau. I see no difference between the offense David Fizdale was running, which was basically isolations on every possession, and you were exposed if you couldn't score in isolation to what Thibodeau has them doing.

I hope people realize isolation basketball doesn't win championships, so people might as well get ready for another head coach in the near future.

[Gorilla Monsoon]

Logic dictates the following:

-The Knicks must be shopping Randle

-The Knicks must be intrigued by the idea of unloading both the Randle and Fournier contracts

-Randle must have some value around the league coming off last season, and there must be at least one team who sees his issues with the Knicks/fans/media/effort as a non-factor in a smaller market

-If there are at least two teams who see it that way, then the Knicks have a chance at getting real value in a trade

-Leon and the FO are not going to take just any offer in order to clear cap, unless directed to by Dolan, because they risk Randle having a resurgence on another team, which = bad optics

What I would love to see is the Knicks get rid of Randle and Fournier in the same trade for contracts that expire this summer and/or next, and get a first round pick on top of it. I think there's a real chance of them doing something similar, and anything better than that would be gravy.

[WargamesX]

I don't see Randle as a positive asset right now. He wont be a positive asset again if he keeps playing like this which is possible. i would def try to get a pick and as much back as we can. But if we can't get picks i would settle for expirings/shorter contracts….especially getting Barnes who may even be an upgrade over the Randle of this year

I thought the Kings stepped out of the Simmons trade talks cause the sixers demands were too high. Nobody may trade for Simmons unless they come down in price. They probably should have moved him sooner

I have to disagree. We’ve had injury prone guys, guys on the wrong side of 30, guys with criminal cases, guys whose contracts were way outside of their production. Those are contracts you settle for a protected pick on and are thankful for. Fournier and Burks based on their production I can see them settling on heavy protections on a pick or second for.

Randle is still putting up 18/10/6, age 27, great health, a year from being an All-Star, and MIP…. But Barnes, an expiring contract, and pick with a protected 1-4 that the has a 40% chance of not conveying equals him because he is having issues with effort?

Imagine the Knicks being on the other side of that trade and you know it doesn’t work. The Knicks got two picks, 1 that was unprotected for KP in the middle of him being out a season and him looking for a Max contract, and sending significant payroll out with him….

Randle for Barnes, Thompson (or Bagley) their 2022 pick (unprotected) and possible future pick swap is more fair. That’s the fair cost for sending them a recent all star and not taking a good player in return. The unprotected is likely a lottery pick unless the kings strike lightning and if it goes top #4 fantastic! The swap might never occur but if it does that is fine. That could also be where they put a protection that would be seen as not being robbed.

Even forgetting the swap. This trade is not about moving Randle, it’s about building a winning team. If that pick doesn’t convey and they get Randle and say a Chet or a Jabari smith the Knicks would have made one of the worst trades in recent NBA history. Internally that is the type of trade that gets FO’s fired.

If they go this route the pick will likely be unprotected.

Bruh Kings arent giving up an unprotected 1st for Randle. You characerize him as "recent all star" which is fair, but most teams will look at him as a guy who's on a huge contract (avg of ~25 mill) for 5 years while having 1 star season, which is very much looking like the outlier here, sandwiched between seasons that range from being a straight up negative to being a decent starter.

If the FO was gonna sell Randle high, that woudlve been last year.

Once again know the market. Jerian Grant who is paid almost the same as Randle is a similar player is looking to be traded and extended for closer to 30 Million a year. That is significantly more money. Randle being under contract for the next four seasons after this one is actually another reason why he is a positive contract. Teams don’t have to worry about paying him more and there is a legitimate chance he outperforms his contract. Even earlier this season he was out performing his contract while playing bad. He’s paid like a second option and outside of this run that began with the Thumbs down, he performed at his contract level

The kings will have to give up that pick because if it doesn’t convey Leon Rose would be fired. It would be a matter of when Leon is fired not if. The fans and media would never forgive him for it. The same people saying “1-4 protection is fair” would be saying “what kind of idiot puts a 1-4 protection on the only good asset they got for Randle?” NY fans are fickle and trust me, would burn MSG down if the Kings got their best player and a top 4 pick this year. ESPN would do a whole segment laughing at the Knicks for that trade….

Anyhow, If the kings send Fox, then yeah they may not even trade their pick. However, if the kings are sending Barnes, and an expiring, the pick won’t be protected. It’s too big of a risk in this level of trade not for it to be unprotected.

[Dave DaButcher]

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[3toheadmelo]

I'm convinced every Mike Miller out of bounds/after time out play was successful, while Thibodeau is out here channeling his inner-david fizdale when it comes to all of his out of bounds/after time out plays being failures.

Mike Miller with little nba coaching experience actually had the courage to put an end to point forward julius, and those damn spin cycle turnovers.

randle was hooping to end the season under miller

Looking back I now see why Phil didn't hire Thibodeau. I see no difference between the offense David Fizdale was running, which was basically isolations on every possession, and you were exposed if you couldn't score in isolation to what Thibodeau has them doing.

I hope people realize isolation basketball doesn't win championships, so people might as well get ready for another head coach in the near future.

phil still hired horrible coaches though and tried to force an oudated offense on the knicks. so not sure it is any better lol

isolation basktball is still vital to winning championships imo. pretty much every championship team has had some great isolation players. KD, Bron, Kyrie, AD, Kawhi, Giannis, even middleton too. those teams ran offenses that priotized ball movement unlike us, but still had those big time ISO players to get buckets when the game is slowed down in the post season.

[3toheadmelo]

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Anyone care to take one for the team and let us know what this zoftig genius is saying about our Knicks?

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[mademan]

I have to disagree. We’ve had injury prone guys, guys on the wrong side of 30, guys with criminal cases, guys whose contracts were way outside of their production. Those are contracts you settle for a protected pick on and are thankful for. Fournier and Burks based on their production I can see them settling on heavy protections on a pick or second for.

Randle is still putting up 18/10/6, age 27, great health, a year from being an All-Star, and MIP…. But Barnes, an expiring contract, and pick with a protected 1-4 that the has a 40% chance of not conveying equals him because he is having issues with effort?

Imagine the Knicks being on the other side of that trade and you know it doesn’t work. The Knicks got two picks, 1 that was unprotected for KP in the middle of him being out a season and him looking for a Max contract, and sending significant payroll out with him….

Randle for Barnes, Thompson (or Bagley) their 2022 pick (unprotected) and possible future pick swap is more fair. That’s the fair cost for sending them a recent all star and not taking a good player in return. The unprotected is likely a lottery pick unless the kings strike lightning and if it goes top #4 fantastic! The swap might never occur but if it does that is fine. That could also be where they put a protection that would be seen as not being robbed.

Even forgetting the swap. This trade is not about moving Randle, it’s about building a winning team. If that pick doesn’t convey and they get Randle and say a Chet or a Jabari smith the Knicks would have made one of the worst trades in recent NBA history. Internally that is the type of trade that gets FO’s fired.

If they go this route the pick will likely be unprotected.

Bruh Kings arent giving up an unprotected 1st for Randle. You characerize him as "recent all star" which is fair, but most teams will look at him as a guy who's on a huge contract (avg of ~25 mill) for 5 years while having 1 star season, which is very much looking like the outlier here, sandwiched between seasons that range from being a straight up negative to being a decent starter.

If the FO was gonna sell Randle high, that woudlve been last year.

Once again know the market. Jerian Grant who is paid almost the same as Randle is a similar player is looking to be traded and extended for closer to 30 Million a year. That is significantly more money. Randle being under contract for the next four seasons after this one is actually another reason why he is a positive contract. Teams don’t have to worry about paying him more and there is a legitimate chance he outperforms his contract. Even earlier this season he was out performing his contract while playing bad. He’s paid like a second option and outside of this run that began with the Thumbs down, he performed at his contract level

The kings will have to give up that pick because once again if it doesn’t convey Leon Rose would be fired. It would be a matter of when he is fired not if. The fans and media would never forgive him for it. The same people saying “1-4 protection is fair” would be saying “what kind of idiot puts a 1-4 protection on the only good asset they are got for Randle”. NY fans are fickle and trust would burn MSG down if the Kings got their best player and a top 4 pick. ESPN would do a whole segment laughing at the Knicks….

Anyhow, If the kings send Fox, then yeah they may not even trade their pick. However, if the kings are sending Barnes, and an expiring, the pick won’t be protected.

ya i really think youre overrating how much randle is worth. Like i said, ya, he's been an all-star, but that all-star season is sandwiched between years where he was a meh starter and honestly just a negative. Is Randle who he was last year? Or is he who he's been every other year besides that?

And he's under contract for 5 more years. Let's say Leon Rose gets fired for not getting a lotto pick for him, what do you think happens to the GM that pays to trade for Randle if Randle ends up being who he just is?

Like i said, if Randle was gonna get back a significant piece, he shoulda been traded in the summer. You dont get to sell a stock high when it falls back to it's norm. Many teams will look at Randle and think this is far more likely who he is and not the star that was hitting 41% from 3 last year

[3toheadmelo]

oh damn. marc stein said this 3 days ago. looks like we tryna get rid of kemba and burks.

[Chanel Bomber]

randle was hooping to end the season under miller

Looking back I now see why Phil didn't hire Thibodeau. I see no difference between the offense David Fizdale was running, which was basically isolations on every possession, and you were exposed if you couldn't score in isolation to what Thibodeau has them doing.

I hope people realize isolation basketball doesn't win championships, so people might as well get ready for another head coach in the near future.

phil still hired horrible coaches though and tried to force an oudated offense on the knicks. so not sure it is any better lol

isolation basktball is still vital to winning championships imo. pretty much every championship team has had some great isolation players. KD, Bron, Kyrie, AD, Kawhi, Giannis, even middleton too. those teams ran offenses that priotized ball movement unlike us, but still had those big time ISO players to get buckets when the game is slowed down in the post season.

Most championship teams were built around a dominant isolation scorer. Some were more unselfish than others, but generally a championship offense revolves around the gravity of an exceptionally gifted and/or efficient scorer.

[Dave DaButcher]

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Anyone care to take one for the team and let us know what this zoftig genius is saying about our Knicks?

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Thank you. That’s too bad as I was hoping we could somehow get Brunson here.

And my apologies to Stein for calling him zoftig. I momentarily confused him with Windhorst. Stein is merely husky.

[WargamesX]

Bruh Kings arent giving up an unprotected 1st for Randle. You characerize him as "recent all star" which is fair, but most teams will look at him as a guy who's on a huge contract (avg of ~25 mill) for 5 years while having 1 star season, which is very much looking like the outlier here, sandwiched between seasons that range from being a straight up negative to being a decent starter.

If the FO was gonna sell Randle high, that woudlve been last year.

Once again know the market. Jerian Grant who is paid almost the same as Randle is a similar player is looking to be traded and extended for closer to 30 Million a year. That is significantly more money. Randle being under contract for the next four seasons after this one is actually another reason why he is a positive contract. Teams don’t have to worry about paying him more and there is a legitimate chance he outperforms his contract. Even earlier this season he was out performing his contract while playing bad. He’s paid like a second option and outside of this run that began with the Thumbs down, he performed at his contract level

The kings will have to give up that pick because once again if it doesn’t convey Leon Rose would be fired. It would be a matter of when he is fired not if. The fans and media would never forgive him for it. The same people saying “1-4 protection is fair” would be saying “what kind of idiot puts a 1-4 protection on the only good asset they are got for Randle”. NY fans are fickle and trust would burn MSG down if the Kings got their best player and a top 4 pick. ESPN would do a whole segment laughing at the Knicks….

Anyhow, If the kings send Fox, then yeah they may not even trade their pick. However, if the kings are sending Barnes, and an expiring, the pick won’t be protected.

ya i really think youre overrating how much randle is worth. Like i said, ya, he's been an all-star, but that all-star season is sandwiched between years where he was a meh starter and honestly just a negative. Is Randle who he was last year? Or is he who he's been every other year besides that?

And he's under contract for 5 more years. Let's say Leon Rose gets fired for not getting a lotto pick for him, what do you think happens to the GM that pays to trade for Randle if Randle ends up being who he just is?

Know the market. If Randle puts up 18/10/6 for the Kings next year to a backcourt of Fox and Haliburton, the Kings GM is getting praised for getting the kings in the playoff race.

[Jay10]

randle was hooping to end the season under miller

Looking back I now see why Phil didn't hire Thibodeau. I see no difference between the offense David Fizdale was running, which was basically isolations on every possession, and you were exposed if you couldn't score in isolation to what Thibodeau has them doing.

I hope people realize isolation basketball doesn't win championships, so people might as well get ready for another head coach in the near future.

phil still hired horrible coaches though and tried to force an oudated offense on the knicks. so not sure it is any better lol

isolation basktball is still vital to winning championships imo. pretty much every championship team has had some great isolation players. KD, Bron, Kyrie, AD, Kawhi, Giannis, even middleton too. those teams ran offenses that priotized ball movement unlike us, but still had those big time ISO players to get buckets when the game is slowed down in the post season.

There is a difference in running isolation plays in the deciding minutes of the 4th quarter, and literally running isolations from the tip-off to the last possession of the game.

[Jimmit79]

It's going to be hilarious when Randle is still here after deadline and knicks didn't make any trades at all. The amount of chaos on this board will be fun to watch.

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk

[nedleeds]

It's going to be hilarious when Randle is still here after deadline and knicks didn't make any trades at all. The amount of chaos on this board will be fun to watch.

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk

[3toheadmelo]

Looking back I now see why Phil didn't hire Thibodeau. I see no difference between the offense David Fizdale was running, which was basically isolations on every possession, and you were exposed if you couldn't score in isolation to what Thibodeau has them doing.

I hope people realize isolation basketball doesn't win championships, so people might as well get ready for another head coach in the near future.

phil still hired horrible coaches though and tried to force an oudated offense on the knicks. so not sure it is any better lol

isolation basktball is still vital to winning championships imo. pretty much every championship team has had some great isolation players. KD, Bron, Kyrie, AD, Kawhi, Giannis, even middleton too. those teams ran offenses that priotized ball movement unlike us, but still had those big time ISO players to get buckets when the game is slowed down in the post season.

There is a difference in running isolation plays in the deciding minutes of the 4th quarter, and literally running isolations from the tip-off to the last possession of the game.

of course. that's why i said those championship teams had offenses that prioritized ball movement, but still had ISO bucket getters. you need a balance of both. thibs is relying only on the isolation side unfortuantely

[3toheadmelo]

idk why we didn't offer bud a contract. that man was perfect for us. knew how to develop youth and is a winner. best of both worlds.

[TheGreenArrow]

idk why we didn't offer bud a contract. that man was perfect for us. knew how to develop youth and is a winner. best of both worlds.

We wanted him badly and he wanted to come but then……..

The bucks job opened up and he wanted to coach Giannis instead!!!!!!!!!!!!!!