Political Roundtable Part XXX

[Benjammin]

Harvard facing a case before the Supreme Court regarding their admission policies towards Asian students. It’s Time for an Honest Conversation About Affirmative Action https://nyti.ms/3gkhTaB

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This is nothing more than a Conservative right wing scam to enforce their white identity politics and deny opportunities to those they deem unworthy. Sadly they’ve roped some Asian students into this garbage. Just like what happened when the right wing started with CRT, then moved into banning books about the Holocaust, they’ll turn on Asians too once they’re done using them.

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Also fun fact

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It's amazing how they just "roped" some Asian students into this. Not at all condescending on your part. As for legacy admissions, I am against them.

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[verbal8]

"beneficiary of affirmative action" is racist code for "it's not possible for a black woman to be qualified for the SCOTUS"

If Amy Covid Barrett is qualified, almost anyone is qualified.

[pancakes3]

affirmative action can be based on race AND socioeconomic condition. you can always add to AA considerations. no reason to eliminate race in favor of some other criteria, and i'm always going to be wary of anyone who wants to eliminate race from AA consideration - yes, even if they're black.

asians are perfectly capable of being racist as well, and it's not condescending to call them out on it. the plaintiffs in the harvard case are falling into the same us-vs-them trap of believing that equal treatment = equality. it's bs.

[dckingsfan]

John McWhorter making the argument for socioeconomic affirmative action rather than race-based affirmative action. I've thought that makes sense for some time. https://nyti.ms/3IDpywG

It might - after we have removed the systematic racism in the country - first.

I am also good if colleges only go by grades (no SAT scores), not by ability to pay.

And using his underlying argument:

I just think affirmative action should address economic disadvantage, not race or gender.

Let's just make college free to anyone and not penalize kids for what high school they had to attend.

Clearly you don't understand his argument. It has nothing to do with the ability to pay tuition.

address economic disadvantage

The point here is there is economic disadvantage to the kids going to high school (where) and then moving on into college.

So yes, it is very much the issue and part of systemic racism. And that is the point he was making that you missed. Don't adjust admissions for race - adjust it for economic disadvantage. And of course - if you want them to finish - make it possible by removing barriers like tuition.

[Benjammin]

I would have no issue if socioeconomic status were weighted higher with race another factor to weigh.

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[Benjammin]

affirmative action can be based on race AND socioeconomic condition. you can always add to AA considerations. no reason to eliminate race in favor of some other criteria, and i'm always going to be wary of anyone who wants to eliminate race from AA consideration - yes, even if they're black.

asians are perfectly capable of being racist as well, and it's not condescending to call them out on it. the plaintiffs in the harvard case are falling into the same us-vs-them trap of believing that equal treatment = equality. it's bs.

You want equality of outcome, not equality of opportunity. If that's your idea of equity then it will be a never ending target. Dr. Ibrahim Kendi would love that: "The only remedy to past racist discrimination is present discrimination. The only remedy to present discrimination is future discrimination." Ad infinitum...

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[Zonkerbl]

I'm starting to get really... taken, I guess is the word I'm looking for, by this idea of looking at the Republican party, not as a bunch of crazy evil people, but a bunch of big time wrestling fans engaged in nationwide kayfabe. Heels win the WWE championship all the time and people root for them. Right now the Republicans are all rooting for the heel and as long as the Dems don't come up with a better face with a better story, they're going to keep rooting for the heel. It's entertaining, a fun secret language to play with your friends, haha we're all "racists" now, it really makes the Dems mad. And getting people mad is what gets butts in the seats. Donald Trump may be one of the world's worst real estate developers but he does understand kayfabe.

I think the Dems have to really embrace the whole Socialism thing. Get somebody in the ring with a really sad sob story about how his ancestors were slaves and his great grandpappy was killed by the National Reserve when they massacred union organizers in 1914 (https://www.britannica.com/event/Ludlow-Massacre) and his Dad lost a union job at National Cash Register in Ohio in the eighties and he's now trying to lift himself up by his bootstraps fixing cars and he voted for Bernie because he believes the American Dream tm is only achievable if we all work together. And yeah the Socialists get booed at first but lean into it... it's great theater. It's ok to be the heel at first and then you just keep working on your narrative until you become a face.

I think tactically it's actually a huge mistake to label AOC and Ilhan Omar and Ayanna Pressley and Rashida Tlaib as "the Squad". That's a lot like "The Authority," you know what I mean? They're getting boo'ed now but 1) getting boo'ed doesn't mean you can't win, ask Seth Rollins and 2) you're not necessarily going to be written as a heel forever.

[pancakes3]

affirmative action can be based on race AND socioeconomic condition. you can always add to AA considerations. no reason to eliminate race in favor of some other criteria, and i'm always going to be wary of anyone who wants to eliminate race from AA consideration - yes, even if they're black.

asians are perfectly capable of being racist as well, and it's not condescending to call them out on it. the plaintiffs in the harvard case are falling into the same us-vs-them trap of believing that equal treatment = equality. it's bs.

You want equality of outcome, not equality of opportunity. If that's your idea of equity then it will be a never ending target. Dr. Ibrahim Kendi would love that: "The only remedy to past racist discrimination is present discrimination. The only remedy to present discrimination is future discrimination." Ad infinitum...

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equality of outcome is the entire point - that there are systemic hurdles in the opportunities available to the races (and different socioeconomic classes) that generates different outcomes for students of equal aptitude.

so yes, we should craft policies that would reduce those hurdles (fight poverty, stop arresting black men at disproportionately higher rates, etc.) but as long as those hurdles are in place, AA is proper to counter the effects of those hurdles.

and yes, this will be a neverending target - pretty much all government policies are. gotta love the conservative thought process: 1) shoot down dem proposal because it's not a magic bullet; 2) when pressed on their proposal, offer to scrap the entire thing.

See also conservative response to climate change, welfare, education, and all manner of non-violent policies.

violence-based policies (policies that encourage the state to search and seize property or persons; nonviolent policies are those where the government provides money or aid to its citizenry) are necessary and proper for the maintaining of order: border control (open borders! invisible hand!), war on drugs (decriminalize! invisible hand!), police (defund! invisible hand! works for school vouchers, why not cop vouchers?)

[queridiculo]

gotta love the conservative thought process: 1) shoot down dem proposal because it's not a magic bullet; 2) when pressed on their proposal, offer to scrap the entire thing.

See also conservative response to climate change, welfare, education, and all manner of non-violent policies.

The GOP platform in a nutshell, and that's precisely how they govern too.

Beyond the narrow minded pursuit of the trickle down theory and tough on crime policies, exactly what have Republicans done for the past 50 years?

Minority rule is a **** and perhaps it explains why the members of the GOP are such ardent constitutional traditionalists.

You cannot really make a congruent argument for a system that puts power in the hand of the minority.

[dckingsfan]

See also conservative response to climate change...

Kind of like Trump's healthcare proposal.

Spoiler:

http://media.petsathome.com/wcsstore/pah-cas01/900/11050004.jpg

[dckingsfan]

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We see large gaps in hospitalizations between vaccinated and unvaccinated.

But unvaccinated are not immunologically naïve.

At this point, probably 2/3 have been previously infected.

And yet, we still see 50X differences in hospitalizations between vaccinated and unvaccinated

[Zonkerbl]

gotta love the conservative thought process: 1) shoot down dem proposal because it's not a magic bullet; 2) when pressed on their proposal, offer to scrap the entire thing.

See also conservative response to climate change, welfare, education, and all manner of non-violent policies.

The GOP platform in a nutshell, and that's precisely how they govern too.

Beyond the narrow minded pursuit of the trickle down theory and tough on crime policies, exactly what have Republicans done for the past 50 years?

Minority rule is a **** and perhaps it explains why the members of the GOP are such ardent constitutional traditionalists.

You cannot really make a congruent argument for a system that puts power in the hand of the minority.

Well that's what "small government" means if you think about it carefully - no governing. Their governing philosophy, if you can call it that, is "every man for himself." Because of course that means "the rich get to make the rules" which means "there aren't any rules except what rich people tell you to do"

Your local oligopolist is insane and demands everyone eat fiberglass? Too bad! Unless that impacts the profits of other plutocrats you're gonna be chewing on glass!

[Wizardspride]

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?t=DXtO7pBBDs_egMEnexTF0A&s=19

[dobrojim]

Former Washington state trooper Robert Lamay quit his job rather than get vaccinated.
Now he’s dead. From covid. Final act on the job was to tell Gov Inslee to kiss his ass.

Free at last free at last, thank gawd almighty free at last.

Yes, I’m having a really really hard time being sympathetic.
edit to add - and a horrible person for that lack of empathy.

In the last 11 days, more people have died from covid than were murdered
in any year in the history of the country. The statistics suggest probably 90%
of them would be alive today if they understood how to evaluate information
sources as well as how to evaluate relative risk. Apparently unable to do either,
they are dead. But they died free.

[Wizardspride]

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?t=d6mauSQO_-_a65AFljqlhg&s=19

[Zonkerbl]

Former Washington state trooper Robert Lamay quit his job rather than get vaccinated.
Now he’s dead. From covid.Final act on the job was to tell Gov Inslee to kiss his ass.

Free at last free at last, thank gawd almighty free at last.

Yes, I’m having a really really hard time being sympathetic.

In the last 11 days, more people have died from covid than were murdered
in any year in the history of the country. The statistics suggest probably 90%
of them would be alive today if they understood how to evaluate information
sources as well as how to evaluate relative risk. Apparently unable to do either,
they are dead. But they died free.

Washington State Trooper Robert Lamay was a domestic terrorist who strapped on a COVID laced suicide vest and went out in public with the intention of murdering innocent people, and he encouraged other people to do so.

Condolences to his family and victims for his horrifying choices.

[dobrojim]

Former Washington state trooper Robert Lamay quit his job rather than get vaccinated.
Now he’s dead. From covid.Final act on the job was to tell Gov Inslee to kiss his ass.

Free at last free at last, thank gawd almighty free at last.

Yes, I’m having a really really hard time being sympathetic.

In the last 11 days, more people have died from covid than were murdered
in any year in the history of the country. The statistics suggest probably 90%
of them would be alive today if they understood how to evaluate information
sources as well as how to evaluate relative risk. Apparently unable to do either,
they are dead. But they died free.

Washington State Trooper Robert Lamay was a domestic terrorist who strapped on a COVID laced suicide vest and went out in public with the intention of murdering innocent people, and he encouraged other people to do so.

Condolences to his family and victims for his horrifying choices.

Then there's Faux News who as a corporation dutifully and quietly have vaccination mandates that
work to protect their employees from harm but publicly rake in the dollars from ratings improved
by appealing to the poorest instincts of their listening audience some of whom will die from
acting on the 'news' they receive watching Faux. And after making Lamay into an ever
larger celebrity for his vaccine defiance have said not a peep about him having died
because of that defiance. There ought to be a special place in hell for these people (@faux).

[pancakes3]

there was a time where the people were more or less united in their disdain of "politicians" without distinction to party. while dems have become pretty bad at self-criticizing (still so many obama nostalgists, and Biden supporters despite capital D Dems doing a bad job in governance, but only appear good relative to the alternative), republican voters have lost all ability to criticize their party.

otoh, some people (TGW) swing a little too hard in their criticism, i think expecting accountability from our leaders is overall a good thing. there is very little accountability any more, and R's are the worst culprits.

thin slice, you can see it in Biden approval ratings v. Trump approval ratings. dems are willing to be disapproving. republicans, not so much.

[dobrojim]

True 'cakes. I'm less a dem because I think they're great and more a dem because
the alternative, the only alternative, is the GOP, a party in pursuit of a fascist, racist
authoritarian kleptocracy.

[TGW]

there was a time where the people were more or less united in their disdain of "politicians" without distinction to party. while dems have become pretty bad at self-criticizing (still so many obama nostalgists, and Biden supporters despite capital D Dems doing a bad job in governance, but only appear good relative to the alternative), republican voters have lost all ability to criticize their party.

otoh, some people (TGW) swing a little too hard in their criticism, i think expecting accountability from our leaders is overall a good thing. there is very little accountability any more, and R's are the worst culprits.

thin slice, you can see it in Biden approval ratings v. Trump approval ratings. dems are willing to be disapproving. republicans, not so much.

I think I swing where it's deserved. I don't even waste my breath with Republicans because they don't pretend to be the moral high-ground party unless the bible-thumpers are involved. They are very clear about their scumbaggery, and there's no point whining and crying about what they do because their unapologetic about it. The D's OTOH pretend to be this morally superior party, when they have a clear disdain for regular working class people (calling entire segments of the population stupid or racist), an unwavering love for large corporations/big business, and a horrible message based of fake woke-ism and virtue signaling. The Democrats pretend to care about doing things for people, yet when it's their opportunity to govern with a majority, they allow 1 or 2 people from some small state to destroy their whole agenda. They also have no problem bending rules for their own good (like Pelosi's insider trading and beating hedge funds on the market). They'll spend countless man hours debating CRT or some bill to simply talk about reparations, without actually passing a bill to fix the things that cause systemic or institutional racism. They are an unserious party designed to serve themselves. I live in DC, i've worked with countless hill lobyists and staffers, and I've seen these so-called opposing party members out in DC having a grand old time with each other.

My gripe with them is no different from Jon Stewart's for example (I highly suggest you subscribe to his podcast). He says literally the same thing I do without naming names because he doesn't want to risk his platform. But his gripes are no different than mine.