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OT: The Official COVID/Omicron Variant+ thread

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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Omicron Variant+ thread 

Post#1921 » by CharlesOakley » Tue Feb 1, 2022 5:17 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:So you want to protect a person's right to be stupid in public because you want their arguments to be stand or fall on their own intellectual merits yet you say out of the other side of your mouth that we shouldn't insult the intelligence of stupid people who go out of their way to spread disinformation and lies.

Pick an argument and show some consistency please.

And this assertion that pissing off stupid people is what elected Trump, therefore we should play nice is really obnoxious. Trumpism thrives on intimidation tactics. Maybe you missed January 6th, but that was domestic terrorism promoted by a sitting POTUS. And you want us to be nice to them so we don't rile up stupid people?

NO, you're dead wrong. We should speak up louder, because bullies win when you let them have their way. That applies to covid disnformation spreaders as well. The DOJ had to create a task force to address these bastards showing up at school board meetings and acting out violently in opposition to mask and vaccination policies. And you know how those people became bullies? By being lied to by creeps on Fox News, Joe Rogan and Twitter until they were banned.

Because stupid people think vaccines are meant to track their whereabouts or the technology of mRNA is dangerous they are impervious to logic and will continue to die because of their ignorance. They will perpetuate the pandemic by not getting vaxxed. They will continue to fck over the rest of us in their role as willing hosts to a contagion, because they are selfish in their delusional world full of false conspiracies. Ten years ago they were making Sci-Fi movies about these people turning into zombies and now we're already there.

Their "principles" are moronic and have nothing to do with "freedom". These morons got vaccinated as kids and now all of sudden, oooh, vaccines are bad, don't touch me! Meanwhile, the majority of those aholes have no problem with overturning Roe vs. Wade because all human life is precious. They won't fight to protect a women's right to choose, but they'll die to not be pricked by a needle. Stupid and hypocritical. Go live in the woods and eat bark and berries if you want your freedom from vaccines that bad.

So, yeah, these people who make a public display of their dumb anti-vaxx positions and then die from covid should be held up as poster children of ignorance. And the irony is that is probably the only thing that will convince other dummies to get vaxxed.

Robert Malone is a douchebag. Should I be nice and polite about that too?


This is getting tiring. There is a difference between removing an influencer with zero domain expertise and removing doctors and scientists who have expertise in relevant fields. You don't need to insult someone's intelligence to defeat their argument. That should be obvious. We can't expect making ad hominem attacks on people with medical degrees and PhDs to be an effective strategy.

Half of our country voted for Trump. You thinking that they are all bullies and should be shouted down is a little shocking. You are conflating the fringe with the entire group. There are a whole bunch of people who are against vaccine mandates or against vaccines for children or were vaccinated but don't want to get a booster every few months etc. It's not all a bunch of nonsense about trackers and dangerous technology.

You seem to thrive on binary thinking and have clearly made anyone who disagrees with you a villain in your mind. Good luck getting the world to change for you.
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Omicron Variant+ thread 

Post#1922 » by Clyde_Style » Tue Feb 1, 2022 5:43 pm

CharlesOakley wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:So you want to protect a person's right to be stupid in public because you want their arguments to be stand or fall on their own intellectual merits yet you say out of the other side of your mouth that we shouldn't insult the intelligence of stupid people who go out of their way to spread disinformation and lies.

Pick an argument and show some consistency please.

And this assertion that pissing off stupid people is what elected Trump, therefore we should play nice is really obnoxious. Trumpism thrives on intimidation tactics. Maybe you missed January 6th, but that was domestic terrorism promoted by a sitting POTUS. And you want us to be nice to them so we don't rile up stupid people?

NO, you're dead wrong. We should speak up louder, because bullies win when you let them have their way. That applies to covid disnformation spreaders as well. The DOJ had to create a task force to address these bastards showing up at school board meetings and acting out violently in opposition to mask and vaccination policies. And you know how those people became bullies? By being lied to by creeps on Fox News, Joe Rogan and Twitter until they were banned.

Because stupid people think vaccines are meant to track their whereabouts or the technology of mRNA is dangerous they are impervious to logic and will continue to die because of their ignorance. They will perpetuate the pandemic by not getting vaxxed. They will continue to fck over the rest of us in their role as willing hosts to a contagion, because they are selfish in their delusional world full of false conspiracies. Ten years ago they were making Sci-Fi movies about these people turning into zombies and now we're already there.

Their "principles" are moronic and have nothing to do with "freedom". These morons got vaccinated as kids and now all of sudden, oooh, vaccines are bad, don't touch me! Meanwhile, the majority of those aholes have no problem with overturning Roe vs. Wade because all human life is precious. They won't fight to protect a women's right to choose, but they'll die to not be pricked by a needle. Stupid and hypocritical. Go live in the woods and eat bark and berries if you want your freedom from vaccines that bad.

So, yeah, these people who make a public display of their dumb anti-vaxx positions and then die from covid should be held up as poster children of ignorance. And the irony is that is probably the only thing that will convince other dummies to get vaxxed.

Robert Malone is a douchebag. Should I be nice and polite about that too?


This is getting tiring. There is a difference between removing an influencer with zero domain expertise and removing doctors and scientists who have expertise in relevant fields. You don't need to insult someone's intelligence to defeat their argument. That should be obvious. We can't expect making ad hominem attacks on people with medical degrees and PhDs to be an effective strategy.

Half of our country voted for Trump. You thinking that they are all bullies and should be shouted down is a little shocking. You are conflating the fringe with the entire group. There are a whole bunch of people who are against vaccine mandates or against vaccines for children or were vaccinated but don't want to get a booster every few months etc. It's not all a bunch of nonsense about trackers and dangerous technology.

You seem to thrive on binary thinking and have clearly made anyone who disagrees with you a villain in your mind. Good luck getting the world to change for you.


If vaccinated people want to go to work then it is up to the unvaccinated people who share their common workspace to accommodate the vaccinated, not the other way around. A vaccinated person shouldn't have to put up with someone unvaccinated and untested in their personal space. And there is no longer anything fringe about millions of people protesting just wearing a damn mask in shared spaces.

That's a really specious argument for you to say I'm being binary when the anti-vaxx, anti-mask sentiment has been mainstreamed for about a quarter of the population. Many of these people are bitching and moaning about getting tested instead of getting vaxxed. How is that helpful? The Biden mandate offered the option to get vaxxed or get tested, pick one. Instead, they quit their jobs. Now, that's binary.

You seem to think extremism lies at the fringes. No, it is alive and well in the mainstream. You said don't piss off the Trumpers or they'll re-elect him. What kind of rubbish was that? Of course extremism is common. When the majority of Republicans still believe the election was stolen then there is nothing fringe about extremism. Our population has been radicalized and dumbed down so yes their intelligence has degraded.

And I did not say all people who espouse anti-vax sentiments should be shouted down. Don't put words into my mouth. I said the anti-vax rhetoric has produced millions of bullies who are far more rhetorically vicious than any one of us calling someone stupid for saying irresponsible things.

And that includes people with medical degrees which you seem to be implying should be accorded respect even when they spread lies. That's weird. Do you show respect to anyone based on their credentials alone? I doubt it. Joseph Mercola is a scumbag profiteer. I knew about him a long time ago and at one time I got some useful health information from him. But he's a profiteer who leveraged the pandemic to line his pockets. Should we be respectful towards Mercola because he has a degree?

All of these talking heads who get elevated to martyrdom when they get shot down you're simultaneously saying should be shot down if shown to be false prophets while also bemoaning the integrity to those who shoot them down because we don't do it politely. You are not consistent. Aholes get treated like aholes. It's like saying Randle shouldn't get booed when he clearly gives up on his team.

A bully is someone who shouts you down. You don't need to do that. You can cut people down to size with basic logic. You don't have to be nice when you do it, but you don't have to be cruel either. And they should be de-platformed when they are documented as spreading lies. I applaud Twitter for doing it to Trump and Malone. You seem to think liars should be protected and afforded some measure of respect
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Omicron Variant+ thread 

Post#1923 » by Clyde_Style » Tue Feb 1, 2022 5:55 pm

And for the record, I don't see anyone here saying people don't have a choice. What we are saying is if you make yourself a public spectacle over your vaxx stance then you make yourself open to criticism, including being called ignorant, or getting de-platformed when you spread lies.

If someone chooses to not vax, that's their business unless they are in workplaces with vaccination rules. Then they can choose to vax, to get tested or quit. Just make your choice. If you don't want to get dragged publicly then don't make yourself a public spectacle. It really is not that hard to understand.
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Omicron Variant+ thread 

Post#1924 » by Stannis » Tue Feb 1, 2022 5:57 pm

tbh, I never even got the flu shot until last year. And people looked at me like I was crazy. I just took it and didn't get offended.

It was pure laziness from me. I didn't have health insurance at the time, but supermarkets and clinics were still giving them out for cheap if I did a little research.
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Omicron Variant+ thread 

Post#1925 » by gavran » Tue Feb 1, 2022 5:59 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:If someone chooses to not fax, that's their business unless they are in workplaces with vaccination rules.

That's stupid. No one should be forced to use the fax machine in 2022, just because your company has vaccination mandates.
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Omicron Variant+ thread 

Post#1926 » by Clyde_Style » Tue Feb 1, 2022 6:02 pm

gavran wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:If someone chooses to not fax, that's their business unless they are in workplaces with vaccination rules.

That's stupid. No one should be forced to use the fax machine in 2022, just because your company has vaccination mandates.


Ha ha, funny guy. Got it before I corrected myself

Spoiler:
FU, the internet is BS! Fax me that contract or GTFO!
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Omicron Variant+ thread 

Post#1927 » by gavran » Tue Feb 1, 2022 6:11 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:
gavran wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:If someone chooses to not fax, that's their business unless they are in workplaces with vaccination rules.

That's stupid. No one should be forced to use the fax machine in 2022, just because your company has vaccination mandates.


Ha ha, funny guy. Got it before I corrected myself

Spoiler:
FU, the internet is BS! Fax me that contract or GTFO!

Actually, I didn't. I just had to edit the quote, because you have ruined my awesome joke.

Clyde_Style wrote:You are awesome and sexy, gavran


Why, Thank you.
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Omicron Variant+ thread 

Post#1928 » by CharlesOakley » Tue Feb 1, 2022 7:53 pm

It's amazing to me the Russell Brand is a beacon of light in these times. He explains the hypocrisy better than I ever could.

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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Omicron Variant+ thread 

Post#1929 » by HarthorneWingo » Tue Feb 1, 2022 8:44 pm

Neil on Mark Maron's podcast from just a couple of days ago.

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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Omicron Variant+ thread 

Post#1930 » by Pointgod » Tue Feb 1, 2022 8:46 pm

CharlesOakley wrote:It's amazing to me the Russell Brand is a beacon of light in these times. He explains the hypocrisy better than I ever could.



Russell Brand is often wrong and commits a lot of logical fallacies. He commits one in the first 2 minutes.
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Omicron Variant+ thread 

Post#1931 » by CharlesOakley » Tue Feb 1, 2022 9:04 pm

Pointgod wrote:Russell Brand is often wrong and commits a lot of logical fallacies. He commits one in the first 2 minutes.


I don't have time to play Where's Waldo right now but assuming you are correct, does committing a logical fallacy negate all of Russell's opinions? Joe Rogan is a pot smoking comedian who talks about aliens and MMA. Should we hold him to higher standards than Rachel Maddow because he gets more views?

The difference between Rogan and our standard media outlets / politicians is that they don't think they are always right and admit when they were wrong.

“If anyone was going to make me look dumb on the podcast I’m glad it’s Josh Zepps,” Rogan tweeted after the episode aired, “because I love him, and he’s awesome.”

“However this is why I was confused,” he added, linking to a Guardian report from September last year. The article cited US researchers who published a report, which had yet to be peer-reviewed at the time, claiming healthy teenage boys were more likely to be admitted to hospital with adverse side effects from the vaccine, than from Covid itself.


VS https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/list/?category=&ruling=false&speaker=rachel-maddow
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Omicron Variant+ thread 

Post#1932 » by DOT » Tue Feb 1, 2022 10:04 pm

I always find it amusing, people like Rogan will walk around telling anyone who will listen that they're the smart ones who you should listen to, until someone actually tries to point out when they're wrong, at which point it's "I'm just a guy with a podcast, you shouldn't take me seriously"

Because people do take him seriously, especially on the Covid stuff, and the fact that he feeds into the misinformation without properly checking is negligent at best of him.
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Omicron Variant+ thread 

Post#1933 » by Clyde_Style » Tue Feb 1, 2022 10:41 pm

CharlesOakley wrote:
Pointgod wrote:Russell Brand is often wrong and commits a lot of logical fallacies. He commits one in the first 2 minutes.


I don't have time to play Where's Waldo right now but assuming you are correct, does committing a logical fallacy negate all of Russell's opinions? Joe Rogan is a pot smoking comedian who talks about aliens and MMA. Should we hold him to higher standards than Rachel Maddow because he gets more views?

The difference between Rogan and our standard media outlets / politicians is that they don't think they are always right and admit when they were wrong.

“If anyone was going to make me look dumb on the podcast I’m glad it’s Josh Zepps,” Rogan tweeted after the episode aired, “because I love him, and he’s awesome.”

“However this is why I was confused,” he added, linking to a Guardian report from September last year. The article cited US researchers who published a report, which had yet to be peer-reviewed at the time, claiming healthy teenage boys were more likely to be admitted to hospital with adverse side effects from the vaccine, than from Covid itself.


VS https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/list/?category=&ruling=false&speaker=rachel-maddow


Rachel Maddow does her homework before rolling out a supposition. Rogan spitballs his way without doing his homework and you’re saying it gives him integrity when he says whoops? I don’t think your notion of higher standards is applied well in this analogy.
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Omicron Variant+ thread 

Post#1934 » by CharlesOakley » Tue Feb 1, 2022 10:46 pm

K-DOT wrote:I always find it amusing, people like Rogan will walk around telling anyone who will listen that they're the smart ones who you should listen to, until someone actually tries to point out when they're wrong, at which point it's "I'm just a guy with a podcast, you shouldn't take me seriously"

Because people do take him seriously, especially on the Covid stuff, and the fact that he feeds into the misinformation without properly checking is negligent at best of him.


FFS he based his misinformation on an actual study that was corrected after peer review. He tweeted out a correction and admitted he was wrong and "made to look stupid" by his guest. Are you are okay with Rachel Maddow saying the vaccine prevents transmission or Fauci initially advising people not to wear masks?

Perhaps we should hold professionals and experts to the same standards as Rogan? You have Newsmax, OAN and Fox News deliberately pushing falsehoods but Rogan is the bad guy.

When polls said only about half of all Americans would take a vaccine, I was saying herd immunity would take 70 to 75 percent,” Fauci told the New York Times. “Then, when newer surveys said 60 percent or more would take it, I thought, ‘I can nudge this up a bit,’ so I went to 80, 85.
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Omicron Variant+ thread 

Post#1935 » by Clyde_Style » Tue Feb 1, 2022 10:52 pm

Russell Brand is in the new movie Death on the Nile coming out soon.

Does anyone think he’d be allowed on the set without being vaccinated? NOT A CHANCE

This is like Fox News which requires their staff to be vaccinated. Do Hannity and Carlson divulge this fact to their audience? Of course not

Brand is a double-talking alt-right click-baiting trashy ideologue in yoga pants

He loves to give airtime to extremist d-bags like Ben Shapiro and Candace Owens because it stirs things up

Brand was always a chit talker, but now he is just another profiteer milking the conspiracy fantasies to line his pockets

Calling him a beacon of honesty is laughable
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Omicron Variant+ thread 

Post#1936 » by CharlesOakley » Tue Feb 1, 2022 10:58 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:Rachel Maddow does her homework before rolling out a supposition. Rogan spitballs his way without doing his homework and you’re saying it gives him integrity when he says whoops? I don’t think your notion of higher standards is applied well in this analogy.


Like her ivermectin claims?

https://www.mediaite.com/online/maddow-doesnt-delete-tweet-promoting-dubious-story-of-ivermectin-patients-overloading-hospitals/

Edit - anyway - I'll just leave as I don't see this discussion going anywhere. Brand as an alt-right ideologue would be funny if you weren't serious.

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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Omicron Variant+ thread 

Post#1937 » by Clyde_Style » Tue Feb 1, 2022 10:59 pm

CharlesOakley wrote:
K-DOT wrote:I always find it amusing, people like Rogan will walk around telling anyone who will listen that they're the smart ones who you should listen to, until someone actually tries to point out when they're wrong, at which point it's "I'm just a guy with a podcast, you shouldn't take me seriously"

Because people do take him seriously, especially on the Covid stuff, and the fact that he feeds into the misinformation without properly checking is negligent at best of him.


FFS he based his misinformation on an actual study that was corrected after peer review. He tweeted out a correction and admitted he was wrong and "made to look stupid" by his guest. Are you are okay with Rachel Maddow saying the vaccine prevents transmission or Fauci initially advising people not to wear masks?

Perhaps we should hold professionals and experts to the same standards as Rogan? You have Newsmax, OAN and Fox News deliberately pushing falsehoods but Rogan is the bad guy.

When polls said only about half of all Americans would take a vaccine, I was saying herd immunity would take 70 to 75 percent,” Fauci told the New York Times. “Then, when newer surveys said 60 percent or more would take it, I thought, ‘I can nudge this up a bit,’ so I went to 80, 85.


Nobody is perfect so that is not the problem with Rogan per se. One of the problems with Rogan is he deliberately goes out of his way to give air time to discredited professionals or hardcore right wingers in the name of giving people equal time. He does it because he likes the controversy. It keeps him in the news and makes him popular among his existing base that construe this as being independently minded when it is actually often just manipulative click baiting.
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Omicron Variant+ thread 

Post#1938 » by DOT » Tue Feb 1, 2022 11:06 pm

CharlesOakley wrote:
K-DOT wrote:I always find it amusing, people like Rogan will walk around telling anyone who will listen that they're the smart ones who you should listen to, until someone actually tries to point out when they're wrong, at which point it's "I'm just a guy with a podcast, you shouldn't take me seriously"

Because people do take him seriously, especially on the Covid stuff, and the fact that he feeds into the misinformation without properly checking is negligent at best of him.


FFS he based his misinformation on an actual study that was corrected after peer review. He tweeted out a correction and admitted he was wrong and "made to look stupid" by his guest.

He did this once

What about all the other times he was wrong?

CharlesOakley wrote:Are you are okay with Rachel Maddow saying the vaccine prevents transmission or Fauci initially advising people not to wear masks?

I don't watch or listen to Maddow either, so I don't know exactly what she said. If she said it fully prevents it, she was wrong, in fact we don't have any data about the effects of vaccines on transmission, but it is likely they reduce it because of viral load and all. And the fact that y'all keep repeating the "Fauci said no mask, now he says masks" things is played out. Fauci initially advised against buying masks not because he didn't think they worked, but because we had a limited supply and they would be more effective if they were distributed to the people who needed them more first. I would think you being so against misinformation yourself, you'd do proper research, but alas


CharlesOakley wrote:Perhaps we should hold professionals and experts to the same standards as Rogan? You have Newsmax, OAN and Fox News deliberately pushing falsehoods but Rogan is the bad guy.

Yes. Hold people accountable, especially actual journalists, but those hacks as well

CharlesOakley wrote:
When polls said only about half of all Americans would take a vaccine, I was saying herd immunity would take 70 to 75 percent,” Fauci told the New York Times. “Then, when newer surveys said 60 percent or more would take it, I thought, ‘I can nudge this up a bit,’ so I went to 80, 85.

Here's the rest of that:

In a telephone interview the next day, Dr. Fauci acknowledged that he had slowly but deliberately been moving the goal posts. He is doing so, he said, partly based on new science, and partly on his gut feeling that the country is finally ready to hear what he really thinks.

Hard as it may be to hear, he said, he believes that it may take close to 90 percent immunity to bring the virus to a halt — almost as much as is needed to stop a measles outbreak.

Asked about Dr. Fauci’s conclusions, prominent epidemiologists said that he might be proven right. The early range of 60 to 70 percent was almost undoubtedly too low, they said, and the virus is becoming more transmissible, so it will take greater herd immunity to stop it.

Dr. Fauci said that weeks ago, he had hesitated to publicly raise his estimate because many Americans seemed hesitant about vaccines, which they would need to accept almost universally in order for the country to achieve herd immunity.

Now that some polls are showing that many more Americans are ready, even eager, for vaccines, he said he felt he could deliver the tough message that the return to normal might take longer than anticipated.


Personally, I disagree. He should've just been straight-up from the start about it. But you're presenting it as if he's constantly changing his mind when that's not the case. He lied to get a better chance at getting us to herd immunity

But that's to say, all this is a bunch of whataboutism. Rogan has an outsized influence which he is at best negligent of by not taking the time to do proper research before spreading misinformation. Bringing up other people as an attempt to "why no complain about them?" wouldn't absolve Rogan, even if you were correct.
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Omicron Variant+ thread 

Post#1939 » by Clyde_Style » Tue Feb 1, 2022 11:12 pm

CharlesOakley wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:Rachel Maddow does her homework before rolling out a supposition. Rogan spitballs his way without doing his homework and you’re saying it gives him integrity when he says whoops? I don’t think your notion of higher standards is applied well in this analogy.


Like her ivermectin claims?

https://www.mediaite.com/online/maddow-doesnt-delete-tweet-promoting-dubious-story-of-ivermectin-patients-overloading-hospitals/


That’s a retweet, not a claim by her is it?

There was a moment when reports of Ivermectin poisonings and deaths were legitimately coming out. People did die trying to self-medicate themselves with a horse dewormer that was not cleared for use as a covid treatment. Maddow was retweeting on those incidents in OK. The worst you can say is she should have done a whole investigation into that source before retweeting it, but she was not the reporter. Personally, I think it is impossible to be in the journalism business and not get tripped up by other sources if you get into retweeting other peoples’ tweets. So maybe she shouldn’t bother doing that.

She’s a real journalist though. Brand is a sensation monger. They are two different breeds. He is not a journalist.
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Re: OT: The Official COVID/Omicron Variant+ thread 

Post#1940 » by Clyde_Style » Tue Feb 1, 2022 11:20 pm

CharlesOakley wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:Rachel Maddow does her homework before rolling out a supposition. Rogan spitballs his way without doing his homework and you’re saying it gives him integrity when he says whoops? I don’t think your notion of higher standards is applied well in this analogy.


Like her ivermectin claims?

https://www.mediaite.com/online/maddow-doesnt-delete-tweet-promoting-dubious-story-of-ivermectin-patients-overloading-hospitals/

Edit - anyway - I'll just leave as I don't see this discussion going anywhere. Brand as an alt-right ideologue would be funny if you weren't serious.

Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -Mark Twain


Excuse me?

Brand was famously deep into shooting down any connections between Trump and Russia to the point you had to wonder if he was getting paid by someone to do it, because it was so obstinately wrong-headed and counter to reality.

Now, if you actually think there was no funny business going on between Trump and Putin then I’ll have to assume either (a) you never bothered to learn about it or (b) you’re a sucker. But if you tried to tell me that RussiaGate was a hoax like Brand did then I’d have to say you’re the one who needs a truth intervention.

So, yeah, Brand is working the alt-right angle. If you can’t figure that out by now then you’re never going to get it.

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