Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST)

[Mattya]

Sounds like Dinwiddie is on his way out of Washington, look like someon you could buy very low on

It seems that all of his teammates actually hate the guy and that's why WAS is looking to move him.

Sounds like Dinwiddie is on his way out of Washington, look like someon you could buy very low on

Seems like a guy the Wolves should really avoid. He isn't a good shooter, isn't a great defender, sounds like a poor locker room guy, and is making a fair amount of money for multiple years.

But this makes me wonder if it is the Wizards locker room or Dinwiddie. Because I haven’t heard this of him until he went to Washington. He was apart of the Nets teams that had so much chemistry. All of a sudden he goes to the Wizards his play declines sharply and the locker room hates him? Meanwhile the team that started great is now sliding in the standings. Idk they have a lot of guys outside of Beal that I’m not high on, but even then they’ve always seemed to have locker room problems even when John Wall was there.

[wolves_89]

Sounds like Dinwiddie is on his way out of Washington, look like someon you could buy very low on

It seems that all of his teammates actually hate the guy and that's why WAS is looking to move him.

Sounds like Dinwiddie is on his way out of Washington, look like someon you could buy very low on

Seems like a guy the Wolves should really avoid. He isn't a good shooter, isn't a great defender, sounds like a poor locker room guy, and is making a fair amount of money for multiple years.

But this makes me wonder if it is the Wizards locker room or Dinwiddie. Because I haven’t heard this of him until he went to Washington. He was apart of the Nets teams that had so much chemistry. All of a sudden he goes to the Wizards his play declines sharply and the locker room hates him? Meanwhile the team that started great is now sliding in the standings. Idk they have a lot of guys outside of Beal that I’m not high on, but even then they’ve always seemed to have locker room problems even when John Wall was there.

Even without the locker room questions, I think Dinwiddie would be a really poor fit that is pretty clearly not worth his contract.

[Mattya]

It seems that all of his teammates actually hate the guy and that's why WAS is looking to move him.

Seems like a guy the Wolves should really avoid. He isn't a good shooter, isn't a great defender, sounds like a poor locker room guy, and is making a fair amount of money for multiple years.

But this makes me wonder if it is the Wizards locker room or Dinwiddie. Because I haven’t heard this of him until he went to Washington. He was apart of the Nets teams that had so much chemistry. All of a sudden he goes to the Wizards his play declines sharply and the locker room hates him? Meanwhile the team that started great is now sliding in the standings. Idk they have a lot of guys outside of Beal that I’m not high on, but even then they’ve always seemed to have locker room problems even when John Wall was there.

Even without the locker room questions, I think Dinwiddie would be a really poor fit that is pretty clearly not worth his contract.

I disagree, if you can get Dinwiddie back to what he was he would be a great 1-2 punch off the bench with Nowell.

[wolves_89]

But this makes me wonder if it is the Wizards locker room or Dinwiddie. Because I haven’t heard this of him until he went to Washington. He was apart of the Nets teams that had so much chemistry. All of a sudden he goes to the Wizards his play declines sharply and the locker room hates him? Meanwhile the team that started great is now sliding in the standings. Idk they have a lot of guys outside of Beal that I’m not high on, but even then they’ve always seemed to have locker room problems even when John Wall was there.

Even without the locker room questions, I think Dinwiddie would be a really poor fit that is pretty clearly not worth his contract.

I disagree, if you can get Dinwiddie back to what he was he would be a great 1-2 punch off the bench with Nowell.

I just pray we never have to find out who is right (since that would mean we acquired Dinwiddie, which I strongly believe would be a disastrous move).

[Mattya]

Even without the locker room questions, I think Dinwiddie would be a really poor fit that is pretty clearly not worth his contract.

I disagree, if you can get Dinwiddie back to what he was he would be a great 1-2 punch off the bench with Nowell.

I just pray we never have to find out who is right (since that would mean we acquired Dinwiddie, which I strongly believe would be a disastrous move).

Disastrous? I don’t believe that considering I think he can be had very cheap.

[MN7725]

I disagree, if you can get Dinwiddie back to what he was he would be a great 1-2 punch off the bench with Nowell.

I just pray we never have to find out who is right (since that would mean we acquired Dinwiddie, which I strongly believe would be a disastrous move).

Disastrous? I don’t believe that considering I think he can be had very cheap.

He doesn't really get to the FT line like he did before his knee injury, that was his best skill

He could probably be had for a salary dump (Beasley with 1 less year under contract+ Layman) because of the chemistry/somewhat disappointing play but I think I'd rather hope Beas starts hitting shots

[MN7725]

I just don’t see Simmons getting moved here for numerous reasons.

I’m looking at Barnes or Grant. Each can play competent defense at each forward position and can shoot it well enough to be playable with Vando.

I may actually prefer Barnes. He’s on a declining contract. He really shoots it from three well. Plays smart. And unlike Grant, would probably be happy as a role player. I just don’t see the kings moving him unless it’s part of a big deal.

Wouldn’t mind an Eric Gordon for Beasley swap, but would we include a first to make that happen. Maybe?

Didn't Eric Gordon grow up riding a pet dinosaur? No thanks on giving up a first for him.

I'd give up a 1st for him on the condition that Beasley is the guy that's going out & whatever filler.

I can understand not wanting to give up a first, but feel with the market going into trade deadline & our current tradable player assets...if we want a significant bench rotation upgrade...it's going to require a 1st....want a starter it's going to require 2 1st's....maybe it comes down at the last minute (it generally does), but I'm not so sure anymore with so many more teams playing for a play in spot.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

That seems to be the case unfortunately

combination of play-in games keeping more teams in it, less sellers, plus the contending teams last few seasons seem to be able to get bodies in buy-out market that they don't need to even do the one or two 2nd round picks type trades to get a playable guy

I think its more likely than not the Wolves don't do a move, but if they do a "upgrade" move, fans will probably hate it since the cost will be way more than they hope but reflects the reality of what it takes to make a legit move now

[BlacJacMac]

Sounds like Dinwiddie is on his way out of Washington, look like someon you could buy very low on

It seems that all of his teammates actually hate the guy and that's why WAS is looking to move him.

Sounds like Dinwiddie is on his way out of Washington, look like someon you could buy very low on

Seems like a guy the Wolves should really avoid. He isn't a good shooter, isn't a great defender, sounds like a poor locker room guy, and is making a fair amount of money for multiple years.

But this makes me wonder if it is the Wizards locker room or Dinwiddie. Because I haven’t heard this of him until he went to Washington. He was apart of the Nets teams that had so much chemistry. All of a sudden he goes to the Wizards his play declines sharply and the locker room hates him? Meanwhile the team that started great is now sliding in the standings. Idk they have a lot of guys outside of Beal that I’m not high on, but even then they’ve always seemed to have locker room problems even when John Wall was there.

I wonder if there is any resentment towards him from D'Lo? Wasn't part of Russell's problems with Atkinson that he played Dinwiddie over him in 4th quarters?

[Mamba4Goat]

Would you guys prefer to trade or keep Prince for the remainder of the season? His recent stretch has been a pretty good selling point.

[old school 34]

Would you guys prefer to trade or keep Prince for the remainder of the season? His recent stretch has been a pretty good selling point.

I'd prefer keeping him unless...I'm paying the premium for one of the starting wings (Grant/Barnes/Simmons--I guess technically). Otherwise, get past deadline & could Sachin provide value &/or get bonus pts for not overpaying say for a guy & getting guys like Prince & Bev to sign team-friendly reduced extensions?

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

[old school 34]

Didn't Eric Gordon grow up riding a pet dinosaur? No thanks on giving up a first for him.

I'd give up a 1st for him on the condition that Beasley is the guy that's going out & whatever filler.

I can understand not wanting to give up a first, but feel with the market going into trade deadline & our current tradable player assets...if we want a significant bench rotation upgrade...it's going to require a 1st....want a starter it's going to require 2 1st's....maybe it comes down at the last minute (it generally does), but I'm not so sure anymore with so many more teams playing for a play in spot.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

Why are you convinced Gordon is a good enough upgrade that it is worth taking on the extra salary, much less giving up a pick? His defensive rating is 120 this year, and despite his high 3 point shooting percentage his volume is low. In fact it is consistently low across his career. Hitting 2 out of 5 or 3 out of 8 isn’t that much better than what Beasley gives you. His assist and rebounding numbers aren’t better than Beasley and Gordon being 31-33 over the length of his contract means he is more prone to injury. Help me out here.

Couple reasons that I'd pay the pick...imo--

1. Not going to buy Gordon's defensive rating #'s when playing with a bunch of rooks....wouldn't be a comparable for me? He's had good #'s when on a more competitive team & the eye test still tells me he'd be significant upgrade over Beas.

2. He can play make &/or PG some with Nowell...which would allow for less blended lineups &/or just not mandate that the bench unit needs DLo (or other starter) to kind of keep them afloat? More starters minutes all together is generally a good thing.

3. Granted his deal is slightly more & a year longer, but last year I believe is still team option (similar to Beas)...so we should be able to be out of it before KAT & Ant extensions.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

[old school 34]

The thing I worry about with Bagley...Does he resign as a rfa, if he knows he's continuing to come off bench here?

He'd be an RFA so it doesn't really matter. We can match anything if we want. I don't really see him getting a significant deal out on the open market. Bigger question is if we give the qualifying offer (I think we do, but worth asking).

Fair & I wouldn't be mad if we rolled the dice on him. But the big still on a rookie deal that I'd think I prefer over him & rumored to be on market is Hayes with NOP....get an extra year to look @ him prior to making that call.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

[old school 34]

Didn't Eric Gordon grow up riding a pet dinosaur? No thanks on giving up a first for him.

I'd give up a 1st for him on the condition that Beasley is the guy that's going out & whatever filler.

I can understand not wanting to give up a first, but feel with the market going into trade deadline & our current tradable player assets...if we want a significant bench rotation upgrade...it's going to require a 1st....want a starter it's going to require 2 1st's....maybe it comes down at the last minute (it generally does), but I'm not so sure anymore with so many more teams playing for a play in spot.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

That seems to be the case unfortunately

combination of play-in games keeping more teams in it, less sellers, plus the contending teams last few seasons seem to be able to get bodies in buy-out market that they don't need to even do the one or two 2nd round picks type trades to get a playable guy

I think its more likely than not the Wolves don't do a move, but if they do a "upgrade" move, fans will probably hate it since the cost will be way more than they hope but reflects the reality of what it takes to make a legit move now

The smaller type of deal, if we decide we want to keep our FRP'S that's growing on me...

NOP in--Beasley/Layman/2 of our 3 2nds

Min in--Hayes/Murphy/Satoransky

Almost exactly cap neutral...

Why for both....NOP--looking to add shooter & gives Beas fresh start...maybe even a starting gig--where he has shown to be a better shooter there? Min-- by not making a bigger deal, we already felt okay about staying patient with some of the younger guys...so why not add a couple more in Hayes & Murphy (could swap out NAW instead here....but if I were given the choice, I'd take the guy with a little more length & more rookie contract yrs remaining)....maybe Satoransky helps, but more than likely he just replaces Layman's spot @ the end of bench....Hayes is the guy that I'd be most excited about...real length @ the 5 & super athletic. I know been mostly a disappointment up to this point, but still super young....& all he's played in at NOP's is drop coverage....put him in our more scramble/high wall coverage or as the low man & I think he holds up much better vs sitting back & getting bullied. Also, he still has the frame to add more weight/strength. I get why NOP is moving on, but I do still see a path where he could be pretty good.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

[shrink]

Would you guys prefer to trade or keep Prince for the remainder of the season? His recent stretch has been a pretty good selling point.

Keep. I think Prince has additional value in the playoffs as a guy that is okay on offense and defense, when coaches have multiple games to scheme for the biggest mismatches.

[shrink]

Dare I say buy low on Bagley?

Read on Twitter

I wouldn’t mind renting Bagley as a bench big. At 6-11, 235, maybe he fills our need for a big to match up when we play giant teams. I don’t know if he’d be happy with his limited role here.

I’d also remind people though that while Bagley’s DFG% is nice, he’s never really been a defensive stopper, and a lot of these minutes were against other team’s second string.

[shrink]

]I'd give up a 1st for him on the condition that Beasley is the guy that's going out & whatever filler.

I can understand not wanting to give up a first, but feel with the market going into trade deadline & our current tradable player assets...if we want a significant bench rotation upgrade...it's going to require a 1st....want a starter it's going to require 2 1st's....maybe it comes down at the last minute (it generally does), but I'm not so sure anymore with so many more teams playing for a play in spot.

That seems to be the case unfortunately

combination of play-in games keeping more teams in it, less sellers, plus the contending teams last few seasons seem to be able to get bodies in buy-out market that they don't need to even do the one or two 2nd round picks type trades to get a playable guy

I think its more likely than not the Wolves don't do a move, but if they do a "upgrade" move, fans will probably hate it since the cost will be way more than they hope but reflects the reality of what it takes to make a legit move now

Personally, I think it’s too early to consider using 1st round picks for short term, bench improvements. I think we need to save the asset (pick or promising young player) for a package deal that brings in a longterm starter, after this season. I also think the bench rotation doesn’t look so bad - most deserve minutes.

More importantly, Gupta seems to agree. He has said we’re “buyers over the longterm” and “any deal the Wolves make will be geared toward improving now and over the next five years to maximize the "runway" the Wolves have with center Karl-Anthony Towns and guards D'Angelo Russell and Anthony Edwards.

That ain’t Gordon.

[minimus]

Do you see anyone in similar to Vando, Beasley situation who is worth to acquire? I mean we pay late FRP or SRP to acquire a player with Bird rights to match any RFA offer

I just wanted to mention something I’ve heard about briefly from John Hollinger, which he calls the “Bird rights trap.”

Suppose we give up a 1st and Naz and get Joseph Nurkic, who is on a $12 mil expiring. Now suppose he balls out for the rest of season next to KAT, providing overwhelming defense, and is putting up double doubles every night. We’re thrilled to get that production, plus we have his Bird rights, and we want to keep him.

The problem is that if he plays this well, other teams want him too. His agent will go out and try to find a lucrative offer. Teams with cap space may overpay to get him, and include player-friendly options and up-front money to make that offer as unappealing to the Wolves as possible. Let’s say, $100 mil over four years. He then comes back to us, and says, “Beat that - you can afford it, you have my Bird rights.” Do we overpay? Or do we sacrifice the sunk cost of the 1st and Naz for a what turned out to be a half season rental?

Bird rights are a useful tool for teams that wants to quickly add salary (and talent), and don’t care about going over the lux. I’m not sure that describes MIN next year - it still feels a little early, especially since we know we will get expensive in the future and then have to face the repeater tax. My guess is that we don’t do a lot at the deadline unless we get a good deal, and this summer we let our expirings expire, we re-sign Beverley, offer KAT (and maybe DLo) and extension, use the MLE, and perhaps trade the Beasley + extended package then.

I think minimus is asking more for guys who are RFAs this summer. UFAs are definitely traps, but RFAs not so much.

I need to do a longer deep dive. Aaron Holiday is one example of a guy in this mold, as is PJ Washington.

Would love to add Donte DiVincenzo as PoA defenderю He is exactly this type of low-usage, high-efficiency players Finch talked about

https://www.minnpost.com/sports/2022/01/how-chris-finch-is-mixing-and-and-matching-the-timberwolves-to-competency-and-maybe-a-playoff-spot

[winforlose]

Payton Pritchard really impressed me last year and kind of collapsed this year. He had a nice stretch during the Covid nuking of the Celtics, but has kind of faded away again since the return of the main roster. My question is whether you would trade the surging JMAC for him. If yes then what do you think of this offer

Timberwolves out: Layman and JMAC
Timberwolves in: Payton Pritchard and Enes Kanter Freedom

Why for the wolves: Kanter adds bench depth at the C and could in theory play with KAT if KAT plays the PF when we play big teams like Cleveland. Pritchard is likely a short term downgrade but he is taller, in theory a better distance shooter, and has better upside.

Why for Boston: Layman is expiring and they can pick up someone like Cousins or Monroe to fill in for Kanter. JMAC with his latest resurgence is an upgrade from Pritchard on a great contract. He can run their offense, he is getting steals and being disruptive, and he is more impactful than Pritchard when not shooting.

Small margin move, but would probably help both teams.

Edit to add: JMAC is 25 and Pritchard is 24 so age wise it is pretty much a wash.

[Celts17Pride]

FYI

The Celtics explored a possible deal that would’ve sent Josh Richardson and either Romeo Langford or Aaron Nesmith to the Timberwolves in exchange for Malik Beasley, according to Jared Weiss and Jon Krawczynski of The Athletic. Minnesota, right up against the tax and hoping to maintain roster flexibility for bigger deadline moves, wasn’t interested at the time, The Athletic’s duo says.

Marcus Smart‘s name has come up recently as a possible target for the Timberwolves, especially if they move Patrick Beverley in another deal, writes Jake Fischer of Bleacher Report. Weiss suggests the Celtics could probably move Smart for an expiring contract and a first-round pick right now if they wanted to, but adds that “there’s a lot more that goes into moving him beyond finding matching value.”

Read on Twitter

[winforlose]

Hoopshype has it that Wolves are trying to trade Beverly as well as Beasley according to Jake Fischer of the Bleacher report. Also Utah is interested in JO (different writer reporting for hoopshype.)