OT: NFL Draft Thread

[mpharris36]

You honestly trust Miami to tell the truth? come on. People were saying it looked like Miami was tanking flores first year, years ago. Miami is the worst place that Schoen should have called.


Again four coaches with basically no experince, and not one black man hired. This is deeper than just this year with the Giants. There is a PATTERN here.

why wouldn't schoen call his friend that he worked with for nearly 10 years? Chris Grier has been with the dolphins for over 20+years. Should he not be trusted? He is also a black GM, do you think he doesn't know that there is only 1 black coach in the NFL. Do you think he would sabotage another black man from getting a job? Thats a lot of speculation.

As far as the past hires as a reason say Flores got the short end of the stick because he is black just doesn't add up to me. Otherwise why don't you mention the giants employing Jerry Reese for 10+ years in the highest FO position you can have.

I'm not saying you shouldn't have an issue league wide, I'm just talking about this specific instance because that is all the information I have. If you have reasons to believe when the giants hired mcadoo (was a promotion within)/shurmer (former HC)/judge you have a claim the giants probably passed up better candidates because he was an unknown ST coordinator, if anything the giants bought too much what BB was selling with that hire ...but Schoen wasn't here. That was Mara with Reese and Gettleman. Schoen should be able to hire his guy. Its ultimately what we wanted...we wanted Mara to butt his head out of football decisions.

[blueNorange]

giants are in a win win situation, if daboll unlocks jones then they gotta a qb ... if not then the giants might win only 2 games next year and be in a great spot to draft a new franchise qb in a qb heavy draft

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[TerrenceClarke]

You honestly trust Miami to tell the truth? come on. People were saying it looked like Miami was tanking flores first year, years ago. Miami is the worst place that Schoen should have called.


Again four coaches with basically no experince, and not one black man hired. This is deeper than just this year with the Giants. There is a PATTERN here.

why wouldn't schoen call his friend that he worked with for nearly 10 years? Chris Grier has been with the dolphins for over 20+years. Should he not be trusted? He is also a black GM, do you think he doesn't know that there is only 1 black coach in the NFL. Do you think he would sabotage another black man from getting a job? Thats a lot of speculation.

As far as the past hires as a reason say Flores got the short end of the stick because he is black just doesn't add up to me. Otherwise why don't you mention the giants employing Jerry Reese for 10+ years in the highest FO position you can have.

I'm not saying you shouldn't have an issue league wide, I'm just talking about this specific instance because that is all the information I have. If you have reasons to believe when the giants hired mcadoo (was a promotion within)/shurmer (former HC)/judge you have a claim the giants probably passed up better candidates because he was an unknown ST coordinator, if anything the giants bought too much what BB was selling with that hire ...but Schoen wasn't here. That was Mara with Reese and Gettleman. Schoen should be able to hire his guy. Its ultimately what we wanted...we wanted Mara to butt his head out of football decisions.

Jerry Reese? you mean the Guy Ernie Accorsi basically had to tell them keep him? You acting like Resse was hired externally as GM. The Reese argument holds no weight to me. IF it was not for Ernie, the Giants would have never let him have that job. We all know they listen to everything Ernie says.

[mpharris36]

You honestly trust Miami to tell the truth? come on. People were saying it looked like Miami was tanking flores first year, years ago. Miami is the worst place that Schoen should have called.


Again four coaches with basically no experince, and not one black man hired. This is deeper than just this year with the Giants. There is a PATTERN here.

why wouldn't schoen call his friend that he worked with for nearly 10 years? Chris Grier has been with the dolphins for over 20+years. Should he not be trusted? He is also a black GM, do you think he doesn't know that there is only 1 black coach in the NFL. Do you think he would sabotage another black man from getting a job? Thats a lot of speculation.

As far as the past hires as a reason say Flores got the short end of the stick because he is black just doesn't add up to me. Otherwise why don't you mention the giants employing Jerry Reese for 10+ years in the highest FO position you can have.

I'm not saying you shouldn't have an issue league wide, I'm just talking about this specific instance because that is all the information I have. If you have reasons to believe when the giants hired mcadoo (was a promotion within)/shurmer (former HC)/judge you have a claim the giants probably passed up better candidates because he was an unknown ST coordinator, if anything the giants bought too much what BB was selling with that hire ...but Schoen wasn't here. That was Mara with Reese and Gettleman. Schoen should be able to hire his guy. Its ultimately what we wanted...we wanted Mara to butt his head out of football decisions.

Jerry Reese? you mean the Guy Ernie Accorsi basically had to tell them keep him? You acting like Resse was hired externally as GM. The Reese argument holds no weight to me. IF it was not for Ernie, the Giants would have never let him have that job. We all know they listen to everything Ernie says.

Accorsi also told them to hire Gettleman too. I get it but that is the "giants way" to hire and promote from within. You don't keep someone in that position for 10 years just because you were told to hire them. Reese was a legit candidate to succeed Accorsi after he retired.

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Did you listen to this? Lot of good talk and right off the bat Omar Kelly who covered Flores in Miami. Basically said he was fired for just reasons in terms of poor relationships with owner/GM and even his relationship with the media which was horrible.

Flores seems like he had some real hurdles to overcome from a relationship/building a staff issue that would prevent him from getting a job.

Now as a macro issue. There is an issue with a lack of minority head coaches in the NFL. And maybe this does need to go through the courts to unveil all the evidence. But in terms of what we know now...I can't sit here and say the Giants didn't hire Flores because he was black. They hired Daboll because they let Schoen pick his guy.

[TerrenceClarke]

why wouldn't schoen call his friend that he worked with for nearly 10 years? Chris Grier has been with the dolphins for over 20+years. Should he not be trusted? He is also a black GM, do you think he doesn't know that there is only 1 black coach in the NFL. Do you think he would sabotage another black man from getting a job? Thats a lot of speculation.

As far as the past hires as a reason say Flores got the short end of the stick because he is black just doesn't add up to me. Otherwise why don't you mention the giants employing Jerry Reese for 10+ years in the highest FO position you can have.

I'm not saying you shouldn't have an issue league wide, I'm just talking about this specific instance because that is all the information I have. If you have reasons to believe when the giants hired mcadoo (was a promotion within)/shurmer (former HC)/judge you have a claim the giants probably passed up better candidates because he was an unknown ST coordinator, if anything the giants bought too much what BB was selling with that hire ...but Schoen wasn't here. That was Mara with Reese and Gettleman. Schoen should be able to hire his guy. Its ultimately what we wanted...we wanted Mara to butt his head out of football decisions.

Jerry Reese? you mean the Guy Ernie Accorsi basically had to tell them keep him? You acting like Resse was hired externally as GM. The Reese argument holds no weight to me. IF it was not for Ernie, the Giants would have never let him have that job. We all know they listen to everything Ernie says.

Accorsi also told them to hire Gettleman too. I get it but that is the "giants way" to hire and promote from within. You don't keep someone in that position for 10 years just because you were told to hire them. Reese was a legit candidate to succeed Accorsi after he retired.

Read on Twitter

Did you listen to this? Lot of good talk and right off the bat Omar Kelly who covered Flores in Miami. Basically said he was fired for just reasons in terms of poor relationships with owner/GM and even his relationship with the media which was horrible.

Flores seems like he had some real hurdles to overcome from a relationship/building a staff issue that would prevent him from getting a job.

Now as a macro issue. There is an issue with a lack of minority head coaches in the NFL. And maybe this does need to go through the courts to unveil all the evidence. But in terms of what we know now...I can't sit here and say the Giants didn't hire Flores because he was black. They hired Daboll because they let Schoen pick his guy.

I mean he did win two super bowls.... I think that reason enough. My point with Reese stands. He needed "Help" to get that role. This is the rare case of nepotism benefiting a blackman in the NFL imo.

Listen, Do I believe the giants were 100% Genuine in bringing Flores in? no I dont. I expressed all of the BEFORE the choice was made.

Just because I am a Giants Fan. Im not going to give them the benefit of the doubt of a league wide problem. The Giants are also one of like 6 teams that NEVER had a black coach in their existence . The Evidence is NOT in the Giants favor that they lack Bias. I just cant accept that they dont have basis. Very rare that older white men that are supremely rich don't.

Flores went up against a stacked deck. Period to me.

[mpharris36]

Jerry Reese? you mean the Guy Ernie Accorsi basically had to tell them keep him? You acting like Resse was hired externally as GM. The Reese argument holds no weight to me. IF it was not for Ernie, the Giants would have never let him have that job. We all know they listen to everything Ernie says.

Accorsi also told them to hire Gettleman too. I get it but that is the "giants way" to hire and promote from within. You don't keep someone in that position for 10 years just because you were told to hire them. Reese was a legit candidate to succeed Accorsi after he retired.

Read on Twitter

Did you listen to this? Lot of good talk and right off the bat Omar Kelly who covered Flores in Miami. Basically said he was fired for just reasons in terms of poor relationships with owner/GM and even his relationship with the media which was horrible.

Flores seems like he had some real hurdles to overcome from a relationship/building a staff issue that would prevent him from getting a job.

Now as a macro issue. There is an issue with a lack of minority head coaches in the NFL. And maybe this does need to go through the courts to unveil all the evidence. But in terms of what we know now...I can't sit here and say the Giants didn't hire Flores because he was black. They hired Daboll because they let Schoen pick his guy.

I mean he did win two super bowls.... I think that reason enough. My point with Reese stands. He needed "Help" to get that role. This is the rare case of nepotism benefiting a blackman in the NFL imo.

Listen, Do I believe the giants were 100% Genuine in bringing Flores in? no I dont. I expressed all of the BEFORE the choice was made.

Just because I am a Giants Fan. Im not going to give them the benefit of the doubt of a league wide problem. The Giants are also one of like 6 teams that NEVER had a black coach in their existence . The Evidence is NOT in the Giants favor that they lack Bias. I just cant accept that they dont have basis. Very rare that older white men that are supremely rich don't.

Flores went up against a stacked deck. Period to me.

I think you would have more of an argument if all the reports didn't point to Mara actually wanting and pushing for Flores.

Mara doesn't get credit for hiring or promoting from with Reese. But gets killed for listening to Accorsi for DG. I personally don't think you can have it both ways or you just getting on Mara to get on him.

We kill Mara for not stepping away and letting GM make HC hire for once. He wanted Flores. Schoen wanted Daboll.

Schoen won out.

It seems like you don't buy that Mara wanted Flores. But where is the evidence he didn't want Flores? Daboll was hired because of Schoen. Someone said if Kevin Abrams was promoted from within it would be Flores the HC right now because Mara was high on Flores.

The giants have stunk for pretty much 10 years now...they were pretty much publicly shamed into giving the GM carte blanche to change there thought process.

I agree Flores did go up against a stack deck just a different reason. Daboll was Schoen guy and Mara let his GM finally make a call for once. But even so what could the giants do at that point. The Rooney Rule prevents them from monving on a coach even though they really are leaning towards hiring him...they still have to go through that process. But again that is an NFL process issue not a Giants issue.

[TerrenceClarke]

Accorsi also told them to hire Gettleman too. I get it but that is the "giants way" to hire and promote from within. You don't keep someone in that position for 10 years just because you were told to hire them. Reese was a legit candidate to succeed Accorsi after he retired.

Read on Twitter

Did you listen to this? Lot of good talk and right off the bat Omar Kelly who covered Flores in Miami. Basically said he was fired for just reasons in terms of poor relationships with owner/GM and even his relationship with the media which was horrible.

Flores seems like he had some real hurdles to overcome from a relationship/building a staff issue that would prevent him from getting a job.

Now as a macro issue. There is an issue with a lack of minority head coaches in the NFL. And maybe this does need to go through the courts to unveil all the evidence. But in terms of what we know now...I can't sit here and say the Giants didn't hire Flores because he was black. They hired Daboll because they let Schoen pick his guy.

I mean he did win two super bowls.... I think that reason enough. My point with Reese stands. He needed "Help" to get that role. This is the rare case of nepotism benefiting a blackman in the NFL imo.

Listen, Do I believe the giants were 100% Genuine in bringing Flores in? no I dont. I expressed all of the BEFORE the choice was made.

Just because I am a Giants Fan. Im not going to give them the benefit of the doubt of a league wide problem. The Giants are also one of like 6 teams that NEVER had a black coach in their existence . The Evidence is NOT in the Giants favor that they lack Bias. I just cant accept that they dont have basis. Very rare that older white men that are supremely rich don't.

Flores went up against a stacked deck. Period to me.

I think you would have more of an argument if all the reports didn't point to Mara actually wanting and pushing for Flores.

Mara doesn't get credit for hiring or promoting from with Reese. But gets killed for listening to Accorsi for DG. I personally don't think you can have it both ways or you just getting on Mara to get on him.

We kill Mara for not stepping away and letting GM make HC hire for once. He wanted Flores. Schoen wanted Daboll.

Schoen won out.

It seems like you don't buy that Mara wanted Flores. But where is the evidence he didn't want Flores? Daboll was hired because of Schoen. Someone said if Kevin Abrams was promoted from within it would be Flores the HC right now because Mara was high on Flores.

The giants have stunk for pretty much 10 years now...they were pretty much publicly shamed into giving the GM carte blanche to change there thought process.

I agree Flores did go up against a stack deck just a different reason. Daboll was Schoen guy and Mara let his GM finally make a call for once.

No, I dont buy it 100%. There is to much smoke around this for me personally to feel that way. I sensed all of this and spoke on it last week. Something about this process stunk from the very beginning.I just wanted to keep "hope" alive. Like I said in private, i am far from the only Giants fan that feels this way. You have to ask yourself, WHY do we feel this way? what are WE seeing?

[mpharris36]

also I know we are talking about recent coaches.

Mcadoo wanted to trade up for Mahomes

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If Mcadoo got his way we wouldn't be talking about all these HC firings too...

[mpharris36]

No, I dont buy it 100%. There is to much smoke around this for me personally to feel that way. I sensed all of this and spoke on it last week. Something about this process stunk from the very beginning. Like I said in private, i am far from the only Giants fan that feels this way. You have to ask yourself, WHY do we feel this way? what are WE seeing?

I can't tell you how you are suppose to feel. You have different life experiences that may lead you to a different conclusion then myself so I will never tell someone they should feel a certain way. You have that right.

You did mention though that you really wanted the giants to have a black HC and black QB. So you went into the process wanting something specific.

I'm saying I don't care what race the coach is, I just want to see the organization succeed. I told you specifically I thought Demeco Ryans was the most impressive candidate to me. If I had a choice he would be the guy over Daboll and Flores for multiple reasons.

But I had no say in the matter. What I at least respected from the search. They casted a pretty wide net GM search this time unlike previous years were it was simply internal promotions...and they let the GM pick his HC. Whether it backfires or not...that is ultimately what I was campaigning for. I wanted a GM and HC in lockstep with each other on the same timeline and I wanted Mara removed from the process.

But I don't disagree that overall there is a macro issue in the NFL.

[Marty McFly]

LMAO at the Bill Belichik texts to Flores.

Bill always wanted to coach the Giants. makes you wonder how many titles the Giants would have won if he got the gig before he got the pats job.

[Marty McFly]

also I know we are talking about recent coaches.

Mcadoo wanted to trade up for Mahomes

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If Mcadoo got his way we wouldn't be talking about all these HC firings too...

I recall hearing everyone in the FO wanting to draft Mahomes but they weren't expecting him to fall to 23.

[The KnicksFix]

As a Giants fan, I hope Flores goes for the jugular of Mara and Tisch. They’ve been getting away for far too long from drafting black qb’s or black coaches. I hope Flores goes for their jugular

[Kampuchea]

giants are in a win win situation, if daboll unlocks jones then they gotta a qb ... if not then the giants might win only 2 games next year and be in a great spot to draft a new franchise qb in a qb heavy draft

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I wonder how our WR corps will look next year. Golladay ($21.2m), Shepard ($12.5M) ,Slayton ($2.6m)

Toney is in, and I guess Slayton at that price. I like Shepard but he can't stay healthy and Golladay is way overpaid. I think they both need to be out and a much cheaper veteran option brought in

Next is TE

Engram is a FA and we better not pay him. Rudolph ($7.4) is a cut candidate due to contract. We may need to look at drafting one and bringing in low cost vet - Rudolph would be fine at a lower cost.

[Fat Kat]

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[mpharris36]

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I think that is the most damning part of Flores' claim. I would assume he would have more evidence then just hearsay. If he does. Then yes dolphins owners should be forced to sell. Paying a coach under the table to intentionally lose games.

It's a competition issue and for betting purposes would bring a lot of things into question.

[TerrenceClarke]

KeyShawn Johnson with the facts. If you black you already knew what it was...

Watch on YouTube

[TerrenceClarke]

Salute to BAsed God Bill for thinking he was texting Brian Daboll . That mistake exposed all of this...

[TerrenceClarke]

Flores on the News.

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[GONYK]

Regardless to how you feel about Flores' claims, what is the solution?

This issue starts way before the NFL level. These guys know each other from college too. Relationships run deep. The guys in charge hire who they trust or who their friends trust to make decisions.

How does the NFL solve this other than mandating the hiring of black coaches/GMs?

[TerrenceClarke]

Regardless to how you feel about Flores' claims, what is the solution?

This issue starts way before the NFL level. These guys know each other from college too. Relationships run deep. The guys in charge hire who they trust or who their friends trust to make decisions.

How does the NFL solve this other than mandating the hiring of black coaches/GMs?

This is not an NFL issue, they can't solve it. Its up to the OWNERS to solve. And because the NFL can't make the owners hire anyone. This wont really change in a wide scope. You will have maybe 1 or 2 that will be scared, But there is nothing the NFL can do to tell Billionaries they have to change the way they been thinking for decades? nah. Goodell works for the Owners. Its not the other way around.

Unless we optimistic of Owners changing Bias(I'm not), then there is no solution on a wide scale, cause the NFL has tried their BEST to create pipelines and all ways for black coaches to level up to no Avail.