Tank World Order (7.0)

[TRik]

They're linked. Even when FVV is shooting 6-20 he's still +17 and leading the team to a W. He's this constant reminder that you can't tank or win the title when he's your best guy.

FVV is the ultimate

SUSTAINER

Fred being the first option is a reminder of mediocrity. A team with limitations and an obvious cap to the potential of a squad. I think most people like Fred, just not the role he currently has.

Lol. The talented pug wants desperately to be the alpha Rottweiler and most in tWo wish he’d just be cool with being the talented pug.

[will]

They're linked. Even when FVV is shooting 6-20 he's still +17 and leading the team to a W. He's this constant reminder that you can't tank or win the title when he's your best guy.

FVV is the ultimate

SUSTAINER

Fred being the first option is a reminder of mediocrity. A team with limitations and an obvious cap to the potential of a squad. I think most people like Fred, just not the role he currently has.

A team with limitations and an obvious cap to the potential of a squad...that happens to be riding a player with limitations in a miscast role.

How ironic the pain is.

[DelAbbot]

I said I'm not giving up but the damage is done.

I'm very interested in seeing how Masai handles this core going forward. We are not adding anything in this draft that can contribute on a 2-3 year time frame.

I say this because I feel this starting 5 is going to be expensive after next season re-signing FVV and GTJ. We will go deep into the luxury tax, and even then may not be able to afford good depth.

If Barnes doesn't turn into Kawhi then we will be capped in how far we can go with this.

We have good players but the timing of their payday is all off.

[canada_dry]

tWo grim reaper says the time is nigh.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Take some time off

- Reeko

[Yeezus_]

Freddy statpadder at it again! Oh wait nvm

Warned: Baiting

- Reeko

[720]

I said I not giving up but the damage is done.

I'm very interested in seeing how Masai handles this core going forward. We are not adding anything in this draft that can contribute on a 2-3 year time frame.

We keep facing teams missing stars (Lowry twice now, Trae against the Hawks). Unfortunate situation but I guess it's evening out with the lottery luck we got last year.

edit: Top 14 dream might be over. 3 games above .500. Basically went unharmed in what was supposed to be a rough stretch before we knew Trae and Lowry wouldn't be playing.

[DelAbbot]

I said I not giving up but the damage is done.

I'm very interested in seeing how Masai handles this core going forward. We are not adding anything in this draft that can contribute on a 2-3 year time frame.

We keep facing teams missing stars (Lowry twice now, Trae against the Hawks). Unfortunate situation but I guess it's evening out with the lottery luck we got last year.

Hawks ok, but Butler/Bam/Herro is still an above 0.500 NBA quality team. We are not going to be able to tank if we consistently compete with above 0.500 NBA quality team (same for that Phoenix game).

[Marty_Budda]

Maybe it’s time to admit we’re actually a pretty decent team? All I see in this thread is excuses of why we won lol. It’s pretty weird.

We’re not elite but definitely a playoff level team with room for improvement.

OG isn’t at his peak
GTJ isn’t at his peak
Barnes is nowhere near his peak!

I trust pascal and Fred to get more savvy over the years as well.

And I also trust masai to find gems in the 15-30 spot In The draft.

Futures looking bright to me.

[720]

I said I not giving up but the damage is done.

I'm very interested in seeing how Masai handles this core going forward. We are not adding anything in this draft that can contribute on a 2-3 year time frame.

We keep facing teams missing stars (Lowry twice now, Trae against the Hawks). Unfortunate situation but I guess it's evening out with the lottery luck we got last year.

Hawks ok, but Butler/Bam/Herro is still an above 0.500 NBA quality team. We are not going to be able to tank if we consistently compete with above 0.500 NBA quality team (same for that Phoenix game).

Any team missing a key player, especially a point guard of star caliber to me indicates potential issues.

Looking at the schedule now. After the next three games (Bulls, Hawks, Hornets). It becomes a lot more chill until our next big western conference road trip. We play the Nets back to back before then but KD likely out, no Irving for one both games either. So that's probably a couple wins. The west coast road trip ain't much of an issue either considering Clippers are injured and the lakers are mediocre just like us.

I think we end the season likely as the 8th (maybe 7th?) seed. Play in and probably a playoff appearance.

Which means we pick 17 or 18. Oh well, in that range there is what? Jovic, Daniels, whoever falls off in that mid tier. We'll see as the college season progresses.

I think we're clearly no longer in that Baldwin, Keegan, Hardy, Eason, Montero, Washington range.

[720]

Maybe it’s time to admit we’re actually a pretty decent team? All I see in this thread is excuses of why we won lol. It’s pretty weird.

We’re not elite but definitely a playoff level team with room for improvement.

OG isn’t at his peak
GTJ isn’t at his peak
Barnes is nowhere near his peak!

I trust pascal and Fred to get more savvy over the years as well.

And I also trust masai to find gems in the 15-30 spot In The draft.

Futures looking bright to me.

I like Gary a lot but he's an unrestricted FA after next year. It'll be a lot more comforting if/when we sign him to a long term deal. OG and Barnes are great players I agree. Siakam as we all know is a great 2nd/3rd option.

As for being a playoff team. We've beaten one solid team with all their main guys playing this season. That was vs Memphis in Memphis. Other than that every good team we played and beat a key player was missing (Embiid vs sixers, Giannis and Jrue their couple games, no Lowry, no Trae, no starting lineups vs Warriors or Jazz, etc).

Due to this, I agree. We are a play in team. We would be in that Knicks/Wizards range duking it out with them otherwise. But at this point I think it's safe to say they're in that 8-10 range comfortably.

Tank is over I think. I don't think Masai pivots to resting players like he did last year.

[Marty_Budda]

Maybe it’s time to admit we’re actually a pretty decent team? All I see in this thread is excuses of why we won lol. It’s pretty weird.

We’re not elite but definitely a playoff level team with room for improvement.

OG isn’t at his peak
GTJ isn’t at his peak
Barnes is nowhere near his peak!

I trust pascal and Fred to get more savvy over the years as well.

And I also trust masai to find gems in the 15-30 spot In The draft.

Futures looking bright to me.

I like Gary a lot but he's an unrestricted FA after next year. It'll be a lot more comforting if/when we sign him to a long term deal. OG and Barnes are great players I agree. Siakam as we all know is a great 2nd/3rd option.

As for being a playoff team. We've beaten one solid team with all their main guys playing this season. That was vs Memphis in Memphis. Other than that every good team we played and beat a key player was missing (Embiid vs sixers, Giannis and Jrue their couple games, no Lowry, no Trae, no starting lineups vs Warriors or Jazz, etc).

Due to this, I agree. We are a play in team. We would be in that Knicks/Wizards range duking it out with them otherwise. But at this point I think it's safe to say they're in that 8-10 range comfortably.

Tank is over I think. I don't think Masai pivots to resting players like he did last year.

Sure, but where was this energy last year when we were 4th in the east and then all our guys went down with covid and we never recovered after that 13 game losing streak or whatever it was.

This team doesn’t need to tank to become elite in the future. There’s many different ways to get there. We have lots of different assets at our disposal.

[720]

Maybe it’s time to admit we’re actually a pretty decent team? All I see in this thread is excuses of why we won lol. It’s pretty weird.

We’re not elite but definitely a playoff level team with room for improvement.

OG isn’t at his peak
GTJ isn’t at his peak
Barnes is nowhere near his peak!

I trust pascal and Fred to get more savvy over the years as well.

And I also trust masai to find gems in the 15-30 spot In The draft.

Futures looking bright to me.

I like Gary a lot but he's an unrestricted FA after next year. It'll be a lot more comforting if/when we sign him to a long term deal. OG and Barnes are great players I agree. Siakam as we all know is a great 2nd/3rd option.

As for being a playoff team. We've beaten one solid team with all their main guys playing this season. That was vs Memphis in Memphis. Other than that every good team we played and beat a key player was missing (Embiid vs sixers, Giannis and Jrue their couple games, no Lowry, no Trae, no starting lineups vs Warriors or Jazz, etc).

Due to this, I agree. We are a play in team. We would be in that Knicks/Wizards range duking it out with them otherwise. But at this point I think it's safe to say they're in that 8-10 range comfortably.

Tank is over I think. I don't think Masai pivots to resting players like he did last year.

Sure, but where was this energy last year when we were 4th in the east and then all our guys went down with covid and we never recovered after that 13 game losing streak or whatever it was.

This team doesn’t need to tank to become elite in the future. There’s many different ways to get there. We have lots of different assets at our disposal.

In that 9 game losing streak when they were 4th (btw literally 5-6 teams were 4th last year, all with .500 records which the Raptors had when they were 4th). In half of those games Fred and Siakam did play. People seem to think they had covid all 9 games. When in reality we had it better off than most teams because our outbreak overlapped with the allstar break so we only had half those games where it became a barebones team. We were healthy when we lost to the Rockets, we were healthy when we lost to the Cavs.

This team might not need to tank (tank as in pivot to resting, this team wouldn't pull a hinkie tank) in the future and that's because we got Barnes through the lottery at number 4.

Take Barnes off this team and where would we be right now?

[Marty_Budda]

I like Gary a lot but he's an unrestricted FA after next year. It'll be a lot more comforting if/when we sign him to a long term deal. OG and Barnes are great players I agree. Siakam as we all know is a great 2nd/3rd option.

As for being a playoff team. We've beaten one solid team with all their main guys playing this season. That was vs Memphis in Memphis. Other than that every good team we played and beat a key player was missing (Embiid vs sixers, Giannis and Jrue their couple games, no Lowry, no Trae, no starting lineups vs Warriors or Jazz, etc).

Due to this, I agree. We are a play in team. We would be in that Knicks/Wizards range duking it out with them otherwise. But at this point I think it's safe to say they're in that 8-10 range comfortably.

Tank is over I think. I don't think Masai pivots to resting players like he did last year.

Sure, but where was this energy last year when we were 4th in the east and then all our guys went down with covid and we never recovered after that 13 game losing streak or whatever it was.

This team doesn’t need to tank to become elite in the future. There’s many different ways to get there. We have lots of different assets at our disposal.

In that 9 game losing streak when they were 4th (btw literally 5-6 teams were 4th last year, all with .500 records which the Raptors had when they were 4th). Half the games Fred and Siakam did play. People seem to think they had covid all 9 games. When in reality we had it better off than most teams because our outbreak overlapped with the allstar break so we only had half those games where it became a barebones team. We were healthy we lost to the Rockets, we were healthy when we lost to the Cavs.

This team might not need to tank (tank as in pivot to resting, this team woudn't pull a hinkie tank) in the future and that's because we got Barnes through the lottery at number 4.

Take Barnes off this team and where would we be right now?

Oh don’t get me wrong. After that losing streak I was all for tanking last year. And Barnes makes it a huge W. But moving forward I don’t think we’re tanking for the next 3 or 4 years barring some crazy amount injuries or something crazy happening. This team is currently a borderline playoff team in the east and will only get better. Our oldest core player is pascal at 27.

[VanWest82]

I said I not giving up but the damage is done.

I'm very interested in seeing how Masai handles this core going forward. We are not adding anything in this draft that can contribute on a 2-3 year time frame.

We keep facing teams missing stars (Lowry twice now, Trae against the Hawks). Unfortunate situation but I guess it's evening out with the lottery luck we got last year.

Hawks ok, but Butler/Bam/Herro is still an above 0.500 NBA quality team. We are not going to be able to tank if we consistently compete with above 0.500 NBA quality team (same for that Phoenix game).

Not to mention we're on a B2B and Heat loaded up for this game by resting Jimmy and PJ last night.

[Los_29]

Maybe it’s time to admit we’re actually a pretty decent team? All I see in this thread is excuses of why we won lol. It’s pretty weird.

We’re not elite but definitely a playoff level team with room for improvement.

OG isn’t at his peak
GTJ isn’t at his peak
Barnes is nowhere near his peak!

I trust pascal and Fred to get more savvy over the years as well.

And I also trust masai to find gems in the 15-30 spot In The draft.

Futures looking bright to me.

I like Gary a lot but he's an unrestricted FA after next year. It'll be a lot more comforting if/when we sign him to a long term deal. OG and Barnes are great players I agree. Siakam as we all know is a great 2nd/3rd option.

As for being a playoff team. We've beaten one solid team with all their main guys playing this season. That was vs Memphis in Memphis. Other than that every good team we played and beat a key player was missing (Embiid vs sixers, Giannis and Jrue their couple games, no Lowry, no Trae, no starting lineups vs Warriors or Jazz, etc).

Due to this, I agree. We are a play in team. We would be in that Knicks/Wizards range duking it out with them otherwise. But at this point I think it's safe to say they're in that 8-10 range comfortably.

Tank is over I think. I don't think Masai pivots to resting players like he did last year.

Sure, but where was this energy last year when we were 4th in the east and then all our guys went down with covid and we never recovered after that 13 game losing streak or whatever it was.

This team doesn’t need to tank to become elite in the future. There’s many different ways to get there. We have lots of different assets at our disposal.

I think this year is proving that last year was a very unique situation. It misled some people into thinking that they weren't going to compete if they were in that 7-11 range and would instead tank. But I think it's becoming more and more obvious that those comments were made based on the situation they found themselves in while playing in Tampa Bay, Pascal having an injured shoulder and losing 20lbs due to covid etc. Nothing good would have come from making the playoffs last year.

This team has shown they can compete with the league's best teams and I think Masai is looking at these games thinking our biggest weakness just so happens to be the easiest thing to fix. And that is a bench. Some bench additions means they'd be eating up minutes instead of Justin Champagnie and Dalano Banton. I like both of these guys but both are rookies and one of whom was drafted in the 2nd round and the other one was undrafted. They simply aren't ready.

Look at how Miami is constructed. You got Butler and Bam but who are they passing to? They are passing to guys like PJ Tucker, Gabe Vincent, Max Strus, Duncan Robinson. This is the 2nd best team in the Eastern Conference and four players in their rotation are so limited in terms of what they can do on the basketball court. Every player in our starting five can get you 20 points on any given night. We have a talented five.

I'm really excited to see what Masai does at the deadline.

[720]

Sure, but where was this energy last year when we were 4th in the east and then all our guys went down with covid and we never recovered after that 13 game losing streak or whatever it was.

This team doesn’t need to tank to become elite in the future. There’s many different ways to get there. We have lots of different assets at our disposal.

In that 9 game losing streak when they were 4th (btw literally 5-6 teams were 4th last year, all with .500 records which the Raptors had when they were 4th). Half the games Fred and Siakam did play. People seem to think they had covid all 9 games. When in reality we had it better off than most teams because our outbreak overlapped with the allstar break so we only had half those games where it became a barebones team. We were healthy we lost to the Rockets, we were healthy when we lost to the Cavs.

This team might not need to tank (tank as in pivot to resting, this team woudn't pull a hinkie tank) in the future and that's because we got Barnes through the lottery at number 4.

Take Barnes off this team and where would we be right now?

Oh don’t get me wrong. After that losing streak I was all for tanking last year. And Barnes makes it a huge W. But moving forward I don’t think we’re taking for the next 3 or 4 years barring some crazy amount injuries or something crazy happening. This team is currently a boarder-line playoff team in the east and will only get better. Our oldest core player is pascal at 27.

I guess we agree on a lot of the things we're talking about but I just don't put the same value into our record like you do (26-23). Considering the team's we've been playing (as in players missing games vs us). With that being said we've created a big gap now vs the Knicks and Wizards (3.5 games and 4 games ahead of both teams), so no way do I see Masai pivoting towards resting. We're a playin/playoff team for sure now.

[Ref_from_hell]

Maybe it’s time to admit we’re actually a pretty decent team? All I see in this thread is excuses of why we won lol. It’s pretty weird.

We’re not elite but definitely a playoff level team with room for improvement.

OG isn’t at his peak
GTJ isn’t at his peak
Barnes is nowhere near his peak!

I trust pascal and Fred to get more savvy over the years as well.

And I also trust masai to find gems in the 15-30 spot In The draft.

Futures looking bright to me.

[Marty_Budda]

In that 9 game losing streak when they were 4th (btw literally 5-6 teams were 4th last year, all with .500 records which the Raptors had when they were 4th). Half the games Fred and Siakam did play. People seem to think they had covid all 9 games. When in reality we had it better off than most teams because our outbreak overlapped with the allstar break so we only had half those games where it became a barebones team. We were healthy we lost to the Rockets, we were healthy when we lost to the Cavs.

This team might not need to tank (tank as in pivot to resting, this team woudn't pull a hinkie tank) in the future and that's because we got Barnes through the lottery at number 4.

Take Barnes off this team and where would we be right now?

Oh don’t get me wrong. After that losing streak I was all for tanking last year. And Barnes makes it a huge W. But moving forward I don’t think we’re taking for the next 3 or 4 years barring some crazy amount injuries or something crazy happening. This team is currently a boarder-line playoff team in the east and will only get better. Our oldest core player is pascal at 27.

I guess we agree on a lot of the things we're talking about but I just don't put the same value into our record like you do (26-23). Considering the team's we've been playing (as in players missing games vs us). With that being said we've created a big gap now vs the Knicks and Wizards (3.5 games and 4 games ahead of both teams), so no way do I see Masai pivoting towards resting. We're a playin/playoff team for sure.

I think we agree on a lot of things as well but I think the big thing we disagree on is that you think this team shouldn’t be 26-23 and I do. You mention teams like the nets will be missing KD and/or Irving but the nets have been missing guys all year, same with Miami and a lot of the teams we’ve played. And the end of the day you have to concede that this is who these teams are. We’re not just getting lucky with every team we play just deciding not to play their guys against us.

You also cherry pick stuff to prove your point. You fail to mention how tonight we were on a b2b and the heat were resting butler yesterday. Instead focusing on Kyle missing (who hasn’t played in about a month).

I think we definitely deserve to have the record that we have.

[720]

Oh don’t get me wrong. After that losing streak I was all for tanking last year. And Barnes makes it a huge W. But moving forward I don’t think we’re taking for the next 3 or 4 years barring some crazy amount injuries or something crazy happening. This team is currently a boarder-line playoff team in the east and will only get better. Our oldest core player is pascal at 27.

I guess we agree on a lot of the things we're talking about but I just don't put the same value into our record like you do (26-23). Considering the team's we've been playing (as in players missing games vs us). With that being said we've created a big gap now vs the Knicks and Wizards (3.5 games and 4 games ahead of both teams), so no way do I see Masai pivoting towards resting. We're a playin/playoff team for sure.

I think we agree on a lot of things as well but I think the big thing we disagree on is that you think this team shouldn’t be 26-23 and I do. You mention teams like the nets will be missing KD and/or Irving but the nets have been missing guys all year, same with Miami and a lot of the teams we’ve played. And the end of the day you have to concede that this is who these teams are. We’re not just getting lucky with every team we play just deciding not to play their guys against us.

You also cherry pick stuff to prove your point. You fail to mention how tonight we were on a b2b and the heat were resting butler yesterday. Instead focusing on Kyle missing (who hasn’t played in about a month).

I think we definitely deserve to have the record that we have.

I don't cherry pick. I think it goes without saying a team missing Giannis, Lowry, Embiid, Trae, Kyrie, Donovan Mitchell, Jrue or Curry matters more than a team missing Siakam, OG or Trent in a game. That's where people that debate with me are being disingenuous. You guys call it me being biased or me cherry picking to prove a point but in reality it's a lot more simple than that. Those players I just listed, that's what 9 or 10 wins for us? Those are star players we're talking about. Those are top 20-25 players in the league.

[beanbag]

I guess we agree on a lot of the things we're talking about but I just don't put the same value into our record like you do (26-23). Considering the team's we've been playing (as in players missing games vs us). With that being said we've created a big gap now vs the Knicks and Wizards (3.5 games and 4 games ahead of both teams), so no way do I see Masai pivoting towards resting. We're a playin/playoff team for sure.

I think we agree on a lot of things as well but I think the big thing we disagree on is that you think this team shouldn’t be 26-23 and I do. You mention teams like the nets will be missing KD and/or Irving but the nets have been missing guys all year, same with Miami and a lot of the teams we’ve played. And the end of the day you have to concede that this is who these teams are. We’re not just getting lucky with every team we play just deciding not to play their guys against us.

You also cherry pick stuff to prove your point. You fail to mention how tonight we were on a b2b and the heat were resting butler yesterday. Instead focusing on Kyle missing (who hasn’t played in about a month).

I think we definitely deserve to have the record that we have.

I don't cherry pick. I think it goes without saying a team missing Giannis, Lowry, Embiid, Trae, Kyrie, Donovan Mitchell, Jrue or Curry matters more than a team missing Siakam, OG or Trent in a game. That's where people that debate with me are being disingenuous. You guys call it me being biased or me cherry picking to prove a point but in reality it's a lot more simple than that. Those players I just listed, that's 9 or 10 wins for us? Those are star players we're talking about.

Since I'll take you at your word at not being disingenuous, I'll assume you've performed this exercise for all teams to get an accurate picture of fake and real wins.

So I ask you, what are the standings based solely on real wins on YOUR metrics for all teams?