Former Miami Dolphins HC Brian Flores SUES the NFL FOR RACIAL DISCRIMINATION;owner offered HC $100k per loss 4 draft

[jokeboy86]

Wait, don't the Dolphins have some celebrities that have minor stakes in the team? Curious what are their thoughts about this.

[Lalouie]

everyone should have a chance to be mediocre.

5-11
10-6
9-8

flores has done so for three seasons. mediocrity is an equal opportunity fate. it affects the meat of the bell curve which is where flores is.

i think flores has gotten carried away after years @patriots

career records of ex-patriot asst coaches as HC,,,as of 2020 208-296-1

As a dolphins fan, that's not truthfully an accurate assessment of his coaching ability. He has his problems though. If his allegations against Ross are proven true, then there's the question of sabotage. That's a whole other can of worms I don't want to attempt to get into.

parcells - "you are what your record says you are"

[KingDavid]

everyone should have a chance to be mediocre.

5-11
10-6
9-8

flores has done so for three seasons. mediocrity is an equal opportunity fate. it affects the meat of the bell curve which is where flores is.

i think flores has gotten carried away after years @patriots

career records of ex-patriot asst coaches as HC,,,as of 2020 208-296-1

As a dolphins fan, that's not truthfully an accurate assessment of his coaching ability. He has his problems though. If his allegations against Ross are proven true, then there's the question of sabotage. That's a whole other can of worms I don't want to attempt to get into.

parcells - "you are what your record says you are"

I'm not saying you're wrong, it's just that oversimplifies a complex problem. NO ONE expected us to win 5 games. NO ONE expected us to with 10 games with Tua getting subbed in and out of games at halftime throughout that year. But we disappointed this year and if those allegations have merit, then Ross can be blamed for sabotaging relationships and trust within the organization and coaches/staff. It's messy all around. I miss the days when our O-line coach was doing lines of coke on video for a stripper he was hooked to.

[Sedale Threatt]

And the irony of the Rooney Rule coming from the Steelers owners who interviewed a black man seen as underqualified at the time but who blew them away and has now been their head coach forever and his next losing season will be his first one....

And I could be mistaken, but 15 years later I'm pretty sure he is now the only black coach in the NFL. One out of 32. That is bananas. But New England's special teams coach is available? SIGN HIM UP!!!

[wade44]

Obvious cash grab

[NotaHypeJob]

People are really missing the significance of this. By coming public with clear evidence of just what a mockery teams are making of hte Rooney Rule(something we've know forever but now he's forcing things), its showing the whole rule is worthless and that white owners are going to keep hiring white coaches they feel comfortable with which is denying opportunities to potentially qualifed candidates.

And the irony of the Rooney Rule coming from the Steelers owners who interviewed a black man seen as underqualified at the time but who blew them away and has now been their head coach forever and his next losing season will be his first one....

But you can see it itt, lots of white people simply don't believe the most qualified candidate can be a black man or that they deserve an actual opportunity to be considered instead of just a token check box.

Flores is going to lose, becaue too many people make too much money off the NFL and when you challenge the shield you lose. But he, like Kap is a good man for sacrificing his career for something bigger than just him. This will have an impact, especially if as this is a class action he can get others to join. Guys like Caldwell or Lewis or Dungy whose coaching careers are probably over anyway certainly have their own stories about being the token interview. As do countless assistants of course but many of them will be loathe to because it will derail their career.

This is real, and its a problem. It's not just oh we love this one coach. Access matters.

Jesus that's a hell of a reach

Not at all, you have people itt being willfully obtuse about just hiring the "best candidate" when it's statistically impossible for 30 out of 32 head coaches to be white in a sport that's played 70% by minorities.

[Sedale Threatt]

People are really missing the significance of this. By coming public with clear evidence of just what a mockery teams are making of hte Rooney Rule(something we've know forever but now he's forcing things), its showing the whole rule is worthless and that white owners are going to keep hiring white coaches they feel comfortable with which is denying opportunities to potentially qualifed candidates.

And the irony of the Rooney Rule coming from the Steelers owners who interviewed a black man seen as underqualified at the time but who blew them away and has now been their head coach forever and his next losing season will be his first one....

But you can see it itt, lots of white people simply don't believe the most qualified candidate can be a black man or that they deserve an actual opportunity to be considered instead of just a token check box.

Flores is going to lose, becaue too many people make too much money off the NFL and when you challenge the shield you lose. But he, like Kap is a good man for sacrificing his career for something bigger than just him. This will have an impact, especially if as this is a class action he can get others to join. Guys like Caldwell or Lewis or Dungy whose coaching careers are probably over anyway certainly have their own stories about being the token interview. As do countless assistants of course but many of them will be loathe to because it will derail their career.

This is real, and its a problem. It's not just oh we love this one coach. Access matters.

Jesus that's a hell of a reach

Not at all, you have people itt being willfully obtuse about just hiring the "best candidate" when it's statistically impossible for 30 out of 32 head coaches to be white in a sport that's played 70% by minorities.

Or, say, 108 of 115 Supreme Court justices -- 94 percent -- having been white men over the course of history. It defies all logic that the "best candidates" would be that overwhelmingly skewed.

[Antinomy]

Is there racism there? How can you say no? They’re so bad they force teams to interview black coaches and still there is currently one black head coach. It’s hilarious people are even asking this question when I’m old enough to remember black QBs being controversial in this league.

Having said that, Flores won’t win his case. NFL just has too much money and power and I don’t see how he’s going to be able to prove that racism was behind his firing and lack of work.

They should start requiring interviews of Indian, Chinese, Korean, Russian, etc. coaches as well because I don’t think there any of those in the NFL.

They already do.

The rule applies to *minorities*, not just black people.

Although black people always seem to be the target of negative attention when it comes to rules similar to “affirmative action” — even though that benefits *minorities* too.

[whitehops]

is it just me or do those texts "from" belichick just seem really fake?

[BigGargamel]

I'm not going to read though this thread because I am sure there are a lot of idiotic takes and I just don't have the patience to deal with that. The majority of this board just isn't knowledgeable and experienced enough to deal with anything race related.

I love the NFL, but it is about as corrupt and "good ole boys club" as it gets. We have seen it time and time and time again. (Bruce Allen, Jon Gruden, etc etc etc)

There is ONE current black head coach in the NFL right now.

Brian Flores and David Culley both got fired, even though they did very well considering the teams they coached/circumstances surrounding them.

Bills OC and Packers OC just got head coaching jobs. White dudes.
Chiefs OC and Buccaneers OC met in the Super Bowl last year. Both led amazing offenses. Neither one is a head coach right now. Black dudes.

Texans have interviewed Josh McCown for the past couple of years, and he's an ASSISTANT HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL COACH.

Eric Beinemy can hardly get an interview, even though he's led one of the best offenses in quite a while for years.

I know the NBA and the MLB has it's problems, but none are nearly in poor of shape as the NFL. It's a huge problem, and it's only getting worse.

[KingDavid]

i have a lot of thoughts/opinions about the rooney rule which i'm not going to write out but really those texts "from" belichick just seem really fake.

If they were fake, his lawyers wouldn't take the case and put their watermark on those text messages.

I'm of the mind to think BB did this on purpose.

[Chinook]

People are really missing the significance of this. By coming public with clear evidence of just what a mockery teams are making of hte Rooney Rule(something we've know forever but now he's forcing things), its showing the whole rule is worthless and that white owners are going to keep hiring white coaches they feel comfortable with which is denying opportunities to potentially qualifed candidates.

And the irony of the Rooney Rule coming from the Steelers owners who interviewed a black man seen as underqualified at the time but who blew them away and has now been their head coach forever and his next losing season will be his first one....

But you can see it itt, lots of white people simply don't believe the most qualified candidate can be a black man or that they deserve an actual opportunity to be considered instead of just a token check box.

Flores is going to lose, becaue too many people make too much money off the NFL and when you challenge the shield you lose. But he, like Kap is a good man for sacrificing his career for something bigger than just him. This will have an impact, especially if as this is a class action he can get others to join. Guys like Caldwell or Lewis or Dungy whose coaching careers are probably over anyway certainly have their own stories about being the token interview. As do countless assistants of course but many of them will be loathe to because it will derail their career.

This is real, and its a problem. It's not just oh we love this one coach. Access matters.

I literally just read someone say that the disparity of players to coaches is because "different people have different skill-sets". It's amazing how these directly and incredibly racist ideas can work their way through the population still. If that's what regular people who exist in the real world think, how many of this elitist owners who've lived their whole lives insulated by money hold these or even more regressive ideas?

People don't understand that THIS is what racism really is. It's not calling a black man "boy". That's cartoon racism. No, I don't mean it's denying a rich guy from making more millions. It's the inertia in the system propagated by the people in power to maintain the status quo that benefits them. That the latest trend is to go to young guys who were economically secure enough to work for a few years on an assistant's salary before being "fast-tracked" into positions of power by rich people who just happen to "like their cut of their jib" while black coaches are more often former players who have to pay their dues over years just to get the one shot before being tossed out by owners who were only hiring them for the PR boost.

Racism is the need to rationalize inequality and the cynicism toward any efforts to fix it. It's the impulse to rehabilitate figures who were on the wrong side of history instead of identifying with the ones who were on the right side. It's the willingness to blame people for things they don't have the power to cause while letting off the people who do. I wish it were just a matter of knowing what not to say to people you don't know. But it's not. Instead it's a slog through irrational or half-formed opinions that are nevertheless constantly reinforced by the structure of society.

TL;DR: Yes, the racisim stuff Flores alleges is really bad, but what's worse is that so many people don't understand that.

[BigGargamel]

As a dolphins fan, that's not truthfully an accurate assessment of his coaching ability. He has his problems though. If his allegations against Ross are proven true, then there's the question of sabotage. That's a whole other can of worms I don't want to attempt to get into.

parcells - "you are what your record says you are"

I'm not saying you're wrong, it's just that oversimplifies a complex problem. NO ONE expected us to win 5 games. NO ONE expected us to with 10 games with Tua getting subbed in and out of games at halftime throughout that year. But we disappointed this year and if those allegations have merit, then Ross can be blamed for sabotaging relationships and trust within the organization and coaches/staff. It's messy all around. I miss the days when our O-line coach was doing lines of coke on video for a stripper he was hooked to.

I low key hope the allegations are true and Ross has to sell the team. He's the worst owner that doesn't own the Washington Football Team, and that's saying an awful lot.

[Lunartic]

But you can see it itt, lots of white people simply don't believe the most qualified candidate can be a black man or that they deserve an actual opportunity to be considered instead of just a token check box.

Flores is going to lose, becaue too many people make too much money off the NFL and when you challenge the shield you lose. But he, like Kap is a good man for sacrificing his career for something bigger than just him. This will have an impact, especially if as this is a class action he can get others to join. Guys like Caldwell or Lewis or Dungy whose coaching careers are probably over anyway certainly have their own stories about being the token interview. As do countless assistants of course but many of them will be loathe to because it will derail their career.

This is real, and its a problem. It's not just oh we love this one coach. Access matters.

Do you frequently make negative blanket statements about racial groups?

[DaFan334]

Jesus that's a hell of a reach

Not at all, you have people itt being willfully obtuse about just hiring the "best candidate" when it's statistically impossible for 30 out of 32 head coaches to be white in a sport that's played 70% by minorities.

Or, say, 108 of 115 Supreme Court justices -- 94 percent -- having been white men over the course of history. It defies all logic that the "best candidates" would be that overwhelmingly skewed.

MOD EDIT: I put the analysis in spoilers to keep the thread on topic.

-KingDavid
Just speaking statistics...

Spoiler:

The US was founded in 1776.
Slavery was ended in 1863.
The United States is 246 years old.
Slavery ended 87 years into the existence of the United States.
Through 35.4% of the Unites States' existence, Slavery existed.
That is 64.6% of the existence, African American's were free.
There was obviously a very rough transitional period that exists to an extent to this day. (sorry, not statistical but accurate).
By simply, not historically accurate math, that would be about 75 (74.29 technically, but let's round up) Justices elected since slavery ended.
With 7 elected Justices, in that time period that is 9%.
The US population of African Americans is 13.4%.

The First African American Supreme Court Justice elected was in 1967.
That was 191 years or 77.6% of the US's existence.
That is completely **** up, but it is what it is and most people from prior to that are now dead.
Since then, (22.3% of the US's existence) 25.7% of the Judges elected, have been African American, almost double the African American population in the US today.

Not in any way racist, but looking at some of the numbers, while yes the US was very racist from the start and it didn't get much better until more recently, using the Supreme Court as logic is slightly misleading.

I will say, personally, I was somewhat baffled when I learned that the US population of African American's was only 13.4% and feel that most people feel that the number is far higher.

[whitehops]

If they were fake, his lawyers wouldn't take the case and put their watermark on those text messages.

I'm of the mind to think BB did this on purpose.

yeah, i can buy that theory. the text seemed really staged so whether it was BB or one of flores' people sending it makes more sense.

there's a bunch of things that stand out to me about the texts but the main one is that he "misread the text". like people from the bills texted him saying bill daboll got hired by the giants and somehow in his mind people from the bills were breaking the news that flores got hired by the giants? i know he's a boomer but he's not senile.

[Kurtz]

The Belichek texts are funny but don't actually mean anything towards Flores' case imo. There's nothing there.


However, let's not bury the lede here on the real story, where the owner was offering hard cash to his coach to throw games. That's massive.

[Sedale Threatt]

People are really missing the significance of this. By coming public with clear evidence of just what a mockery teams are making of hte Rooney Rule(something we've know forever but now he's forcing things), its showing the whole rule is worthless and that white owners are going to keep hiring white coaches they feel comfortable with which is denying opportunities to potentially qualifed candidates.

And the irony of the Rooney Rule coming from the Steelers owners who interviewed a black man seen as underqualified at the time but who blew them away and has now been their head coach forever and his next losing season will be his first one....

But you can see it itt, lots of white people simply don't believe the most qualified candidate can be a black man or that they deserve an actual opportunity to be considered instead of just a token check box.

Flores is going to lose, becaue too many people make too much money off the NFL and when you challenge the shield you lose. But he, like Kap is a good man for sacrificing his career for something bigger than just him. This will have an impact, especially if as this is a class action he can get others to join. Guys like Caldwell or Lewis or Dungy whose coaching careers are probably over anyway certainly have their own stories about being the token interview. As do countless assistants of course but many of them will be loathe to because it will derail their career.

This is real, and its a problem. It's not just oh we love this one coach. Access matters.

I literally just read someone say that the disparity of players to coaches is because "different people have different skill-sets". It's amazing how these directly and incredibly racist ideas can work their way through the population still. If that's what regular people who exist in the real world think, how many of this elitist owners who've lived their whole lives insulated by money hold these or even more regressive ideas?

People don't understand that THIS is what racism really is. It's not calling a black man "boy". That's cartoon racism. No, I don't mean it's denying a rich guy from making more millions. It's the inertia in the system propagated by the people in power to maintain the status quo that benefits them. That the latest trend is to go to young guys who were economically secure enough to work for a few years on an assistant's salary before being "fast-tracked" into positions of power by rich people who just happen to "like their cut of their jib" while black coaches are more often former players who have to pay their dues over years just to get the one shot before being tossed out by owners who were only hiring them for the PR boost.

Racism is the need to rationalize inequality and the cynicism toward any efforts to fix it. It's the impulse to rehabilitate figures who were on the wrong side of history instead of identifying with the ones who were on the right side. It's the willingness to blame people for things they don't have the power to cause while letting off the people who do. I wish it were just a matter of knowing what not to say to people you don't know. But it's not. Instead it's a slog through irrational or half-formed opinions that are nevertheless constantly reinforced by the structure of society.

TL;DR: Yes, the racisim stuff Flores alleges is really bad, but what's worse is that so many people don't understand that.

One of the most insidious things about this is that I don't even think a lot of it is conscious. I don't have any doubt we've got some full-blown racists owning NFL teams. (And the rest of the major leagues as well.) Just do the math. But I'm also sure a lot of the decision-makers aren't even aware of their innate biases.

I can't find it, but Pop had a great comment about this regarding his hiring of Becky Hammon. Paraphrasing, you've got to make a concerted effort, otherwise you're probably just going to fall back on the familiar and hire people you're comfortable with -- people that look and sound and think like you do, and why would I want that?

At any rate, I have a case example. I work in sports, a field where, not unlike black coaches, women are underrepresented and have a much tougher time getting ahead. I've been here seven years, during which time our 12-person staff has been entirely male. Basically, our boss had a really crappy female employee when he first got here, and without an abundance of great candidates he was content to just keep on hiring dudes (including me). So his boss flat-out told him for our most recent opening, you need to hire a woman. Credit to him, he was fully on board.

So he did, and she's been fantastic. Light years ahead of the guy she replaced, as well as a couple of spare tires we still have on staff I wish we could replace. Moral of the story: You're just short-changing yourself when you're only considering one group of people, instead of the entire pool.

[whitehops]

i'm seeing a shocking amount of reporters saying that BB's texts were accidentally sent to flores and intended to go to daboll lol.

it's very clear that the texts were meant to go to flores, the mistake was in him reading his source's texts wrong.

[NyKnicks1714]

Regarding the Giants situation: people here seem to think it could only be discrimination if Giants brass actively thought "We don't want to hire a black man". No, it's not that cut and dried; discrimination rarely is.

If the Giants indeed made a decision before even interviewing Flores, that's a problem. There's nothing wrong with having someone in mind and ultimately hiring that candidate, but the Rooney Rule is in place for a reason. Conducting a token interview as an afterthought after a decision has been made is not much better than not interviewing a minority candidate at all.