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Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 2 - Can we get to first place?

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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 2 - Can we get to first place? 

Post#841 » by wade44 » Wed Feb 2, 2022 3:12 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
Pharenheit wrote:
twix2500 wrote:Yes and people need to stop acting like 90 mill over 5 years is some big money. Not one of those years he is making 20 mill. He is making 15 mill this year which is basically what the Heat paid Olynyk, Winslow, James Johnson and Waiters. Even with his struggles he has outplayed all of them.

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Yeah the whole Robinson scapegoat thing is strange. While giving him the contract was probably a mistake in the first place, he’s not playing enough to really matter anymore. It’s the massive contract guys (Jimmy, bam, Lowry) we should be looking at and wondering why they are underperforming or simply not in the lineup


That’s one of the issues, he’s making that money and can’t even touch the court at times. He basically has to be traded if we want to improve via trade due to the numbers so I think that’s why he’s brought up so much. If he can’t play then find someone making around that money who can and find a way to get him. Like Wood for example, who we’re interested in.


Going to be near impossible to trade Duncan in year 1 of a 5 year contract. Might as well get used to him for a while. For the amount both are getting paid, I just think people have to start demanding more consistency from both Jimmy and Bam when the going gets tough
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 2 - Can we get to first place? 

Post#842 » by twix2500 » Wed Feb 2, 2022 3:13 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
Pharenheit wrote:
twix2500 wrote:Yes and people need to stop acting like 90 mill over 5 years is some big money. Not one of those years he is making 20 mill. He is making 15 mill this year which is basically what the Heat paid Olynyk, Winslow, James Johnson and Waiters. Even with his struggles he has outplayed all of them.

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Yeah the whole Robinson scapegoat thing is strange. While giving him the contract was probably a mistake in the first place, he’s not playing enough to really matter anymore. It’s the massive contract guys (Jimmy, bam, Lowry) we should be looking at and wondering why they are underperforming or simply not in the lineup


That’s one of the issues, he’s making that money and can’t even touch the court at times. He basically has to be traded if we want to improve via trade due to the numbers so I think that’s why he’s brought up so much. If he can’t play then find someone making around that money who can and find a way to get him. Like Wood for example, who we’re interested in.
I want less usage and reliance on role players in general.

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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 2 - Can we get to first place? 

Post#843 » by somerandomdude » Wed Feb 2, 2022 3:15 pm

Pharenheit wrote:Not as high on Jaylen Brown as some are here. Every year when the going got bad for the Celtics, the blame went to everybody else except Brown and Tatum. Just don’t think his style is conducive to winning he’s one of those all about me players. Let another team unload their farm for him I’d rather chase a bigger fish tbh


I was just thinking about some of the names being mentioned in trades and I also questioned whether the players putting up good numbers on bad teams were actually targets for us.

For some perspective, Kelly Olynyk went from 10ppg to 19ppg after we traded him to the Rockets.

Guys like Christian Wood and Brandon Ingram would see their scoring diminished because we run an equal opportunity offense (unless you're a Center).

Lastly, our 3 major FA acquisitions this offseason were players who were part of recent championship teams (Lowry, PJ, Keef). Is this a coincidence or was their veteran presence on championship teams something that Riley valued?
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 2 - Can we get to first place? 

Post#844 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Feb 2, 2022 3:21 pm

twix2500 wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
Pharenheit wrote:Yeah the whole Robinson scapegoat thing is strange. While giving him the contract was probably a mistake in the first place, he’s not playing enough to really matter anymore. It’s the massive contract guys (Jimmy, bam, Lowry) we should be looking at and wondering why they are underperforming or simply not in the lineup


That’s one of the issues, he’s making that money and can’t even touch the court at times. He basically has to be traded if we want to improve via trade due to the numbers so I think that’s why he’s brought up so much. If he can’t play then find someone making around that money who can and find a way to get him. Like Wood for example, who we’re interested in.
I want less usage and reliance on role players in general.

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Oh I definitely agree. I want Herro and Bams usage to be swapped. Herro should not be leading the team.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 2 - Can we get to first place? 

Post#845 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Feb 2, 2022 3:24 pm

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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 2 - Can we get to first place? 

Post#846 » by AirP. » Wed Feb 2, 2022 3:24 pm

It's getting closer to the time to pay Herro, his elgible for an extension this summer, his last year of his rookie contract is next year, either this team has to commit to Herro and his ego is going to demand money in the range of those players he said he was as good as or Miami has to try to trade Herro while he's being talked about in a good light. He gets points in flurries and can be a break in case of emergency player but his bad shooting nights with the volume of shots he takes really pulls the team down.

Herro is averaging 20.0 ppg, 4.0 assists while taking 17.5 shots per game, where does he line up in other areas on the team?

I posted some Heat numbers and I threw together a Points per FG attempt, it's not a great stat since getting 2 FTs without a FGA is a little misleading towards efficiency but here it is...

Miami's numbers sorted by points per FGA.
Spoiler:

Code: Select all

Player            PTS              PPFGA
------            ---              -----
Chris Silva       26    1.85714285714286
Haywood Highsmith 12                 1.5
Jimmy Butler      721   1.47443762781186
Dewayne Dedmon    287   1.47179487179487
Bam Adebayo       490    1.3960113960114
Nik Stauskas      11               1.375
P.J. Tucker       392   1.34246575342466
Caleb Martin      394   1.31333333333333
Max Strus         469   1.27445652173913
Miami             5652  1.26954177897574  <- Team average
Kyle Guy          66    1.24528301886792
Kyle Lowry        523     1.239336492891
Omer Yurtseven    231   1.22222222222222
Gabe Vincent      402   1.18934911242604
Udonis Haslem     26    1.18181818181818
Duncan Robinson   573   1.16700610997963
Tyler Herro       862   1.14627659574468
KZ Okpala         77    1.11594202898551
Markieff Morris   77                 1.1
Marcus Garrett    13   0.619047619047619


TS%
Spoiler:

Code: Select all

Player            TS%
------            ---
Haywood Highsmith .750
Chris Silva       .674
Dewayne Dedmon    .651
P.J. Tucker       .627
Max Strus         .608
Caleb Martin      .598
Jimmy Butler      .595
Kyle Guy          .588
Bam Adebayo       .582
Gabe Vincent      .567
Nik Stauskas      .564
Duncan Robinson   .562
Udonis Haslem     .557
Kyle Lowry        .555
Omer Yurtseven    .547
Markieff Morris   .533
Tyler Herro       .532
KZ Okpala         .521
Marcus Garrett    .280


ORTG, DRTG, ORTG-DRTG (Team average ORTG: 112.7, DRTG: 108.8)
Spoiler:

Code: Select all

Player            ORtg DRtg ORtg-DRtg
------            ---- ---- ---------
Haywood Highsmith 152  114         38
Jimmy Butler      127  106         21
Dewayne Dedmon    120  105         15
P.J. Tucker       124  109         15
Nik Stauskas      128  115         13
Chris Silva       120  108         12
Caleb Martin      118  108         10
Omer Yurtseven    112  103          9
Bam Adebayo       112  105          7
Max Strus         118  112          6
Udonis Haslem     110  107          3
KZ Okpala         113  110          3
Kyle Lowry        113  110          3
Duncan Robinson   111  111          0
Gabe Vincent      108  110         -2
Kyle Guy          106  112         -6
Tyler Herro       103  112         -9
Markieff Morris   104  113         -9
Marcus Garrett    89   108        -19


eFG% which completely takes out FTs.
Spoiler:

Code: Select all

Player            eFG%
------            ----
Haywood Highsmith .750
Dewayne Dedmon    .621
P.J. Tucker       .613
Max Strus         .595
Caleb Martin      .575
Kyle Guy          .575
Chris Silva       .571
Gabe Vincent      .550
Duncan Robinson   .549
Omer Yurtseven    .526
Bam Adebayo       .524
Udonis Haslem     .523
Markieff Morris   .514
Kyle Lowry        .508
Nik Stauskas      .500
KZ Okpala         .500
Jimmy Butler      .497
Tyler Herro       .497
Marcus Garrett    .262
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 2 - Can we get to first place? 

Post#847 » by somerandomdude » Wed Feb 2, 2022 3:32 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:Oh I definitely agree. I want Herro and Bams usage to be swapped. Herro should not be leading the team.


It's funny because Bam is a starter and Herro comes off the bench, which means that Bam is supposed to be the 2nd option for ~14mpg (that's 7min in the first and third quarter before the bench comes in).

Instead of taking your beef up with Spo, who values Duncan Robinson over Bam, you targeted Herro simply because of your irrational hate for him.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 2 - Can we get to first place? 

Post#848 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Feb 2, 2022 3:35 pm

AirP. wrote:It's getting closer to the time to pay Herro, his elgible for an extension this summer, his last year of his rookie contract is next year, either this team has to commit to Herro and his ego is going to demand money in the range of those players he said he was as good as or Miami has to try to trade Herro while he's being talked about in a good light. He gets points in flurries and can be a break in case of emergency player but his bad shooting nights with the volume of shots he takes really pulls the team down.

Herro is averaging 20.0 ppg, 4.0 assists while taking 17.5 shots per game, where does he line up in other areas on the team?

I threw together a Points per FG attempt, it's not a great stat since getting 2 FTs without a FGA is a little misleading towards efficiency but here it is...

Miami's numbers sorted by points per FGA.
Spoiler:

Code: Select all

Player            PTS              PPFGA
------            ---              -----
Chris Silva       26    1.85714285714286
Haywood Highsmith 12                 1.5
Jimmy Butler      721   1.47443762781186
Dewayne Dedmon    287   1.47179487179487
Bam Adebayo       490    1.3960113960114
Nik Stauskas      11               1.375
P.J. Tucker       392   1.34246575342466
Caleb Martin      394   1.31333333333333
Max Strus         469   1.27445652173913
Miami             5652  1.26954177897574  <- Team average
Kyle Guy          66    1.24528301886792
Kyle Lowry        523     1.239336492891
Omer Yurtseven    231   1.22222222222222
Gabe Vincent      402   1.18934911242604
Udonis Haslem     26    1.18181818181818
Duncan Robinson   573   1.16700610997963
Tyler Herro       862   1.14627659574468
KZ Okpala         77    1.11594202898551
Markieff Morris   77                 1.1
Marcus Garrett    13   0.619047619047619


TS%
Spoiler:

Code: Select all

Player            TS%
------            ---
Haywood Highsmith .750
Chris Silva       .674
Dewayne Dedmon    .651
P.J. Tucker       .627
Max Strus         .608
Caleb Martin      .598
Jimmy Butler      .595
Kyle Guy          .588
Bam Adebayo       .582
Gabe Vincent      .567
Nik Stauskas      .564
Duncan Robinson   .562
Udonis Haslem     .557
Kyle Lowry        .555
Omer Yurtseven    .547
Markieff Morris   .533
Tyler Herro       .532
KZ Okpala         .521
Marcus Garrett    .280


ORTG, DRTG, ORTG-DRTG (Team average ORTG: 112.7, DRTG: 108.8)
Spoiler:

Code: Select all

Player            ORtg DRtg ORtg-DRtg
------            ---- ---- ---------
Haywood Highsmith 152  114         38
Jimmy Butler      127  106         21
Dewayne Dedmon    120  105         15
P.J. Tucker       124  109         15
Nik Stauskas      128  115         13
Chris Silva       120  108         12
Caleb Martin      118  108         10
Omer Yurtseven    112  103          9
Bam Adebayo       112  105          7
Max Strus         118  112          6
Udonis Haslem     110  107          3
KZ Okpala         113  110          3
Kyle Lowry        113  110          3
Duncan Robinson   111  111          0
Gabe Vincent      108  110         -2
Kyle Guy          106  112         -6
Tyler Herro       103  112         -9
Markieff Morris   104  113         -9
Marcus Garrett    89   108        -19


eFG% which completely takes out FTs.
Spoiler:

Code: Select all

Player            eFG%
------            ----
Haywood Highsmith .750
Dewayne Dedmon    .621
P.J. Tucker       .613
Max Strus         .595
Caleb Martin      .575
Kyle Guy          .575
Chris Silva       .571
Gabe Vincent      .550
Duncan Robinson   .549
Omer Yurtseven    .526
Bam Adebayo       .524
Udonis Haslem     .523
Markieff Morris   .514
Kyle Lowry        .508
Nik Stauskas      .500
KZ Okpala         .500
Jimmy Butler      .497
Tyler Herro       .497
Marcus Garrett    .262


Great work, this just backs what I’ve been saying. Lower Herros usage and give the difference to someone else, specifically Bam. I think Herro should be 4th in usage, MAYBE 3rd but I want the ball in Bam Jimmy and Lowrys hands the most. Find Herro on quick hitters and in good spots for open looks and improve his efficiency. He can still average 20 on less shots if he’s getting better looks. Put the responsibility on your stars. Stagger your stars a little more so they’re getting reps with the bench and running things with them out there as well.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 2 - Can we get to first place? 

Post#849 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Feb 2, 2022 3:36 pm

somerandomdude wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:Oh I definitely agree. I want Herro and Bams usage to be swapped. Herro should not be leading the team.


It's funny because Bam is a starter and Herro comes off the bench, which means that Bam is supposed to be the 2nd option for ~14mpg (that's 7min in the first and third quarter before the bench comes in).

Instead of taking your beef up with Spo, who values Duncan Robinson over Bam, you targeted Herro simply because of your irrational hate for him.


I don’t hate Herro and I didn’t put the blame on any player lol. It’s 100% a coaching thing. Don’t let your love for Herro blind you from what I’m saying.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 2 - Can we get to first place? 

Post#850 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Feb 2, 2022 3:39 pm

It’s just basic common sense that a player who is strictly a scorer (although having his most inefficient season) and is a iffy playmaker should not be leading your team in usage. This is an adjustment that needs to be made or we’re not going to reach our ceiling.

This shouldn’t be hard to understand at all
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 2 - Can we get to first place? 

Post#851 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Feb 2, 2022 4:03 pm

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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 2 - Can we get to first place? 

Post#852 » by greg4012 » Wed Feb 2, 2022 4:14 pm

Shewasfly wrote:I think John Collins at C is the best of both worlds for us between the other options (Turner and Wood) and the least risk. Decent enough defensively and good enough offensively to stretch the floor. Also athletic and mobile enough to play alongside Bam and cover for his underdeveloped offense.

I just can't see Atlanta doing us any favors though. It would need a 3rd team.


Disagree pretty strong that Collins is decent enough defensively. Collins is basically the size of KZ Okpala with 3" less wingspan
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 2 - Can we get to first place? 

Post#853 » by Flash4thewin » Wed Feb 2, 2022 4:22 pm

Pharenheit wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
Pharenheit wrote:Yeah the whole Robinson scapegoat thing is strange. While giving him the contract was probably a mistake in the first place, he’s not playing enough to really matter anymore. It’s the massive contract guys (Jimmy, bam, Lowry) we should be looking at and wondering why they are underperforming or simply not in the lineup


That’s one of the issues, he’s making that money and can’t even touch the court at times. He basically has to be traded if we want to improve via trade due to the numbers so I think that’s why he’s brought up so much. If he can’t play then find someone making around that money who can and find a way to get him. Like Wood for example, who we’re interested in.


Going to be near impossible to trade Duncan in year 1 of a 5 year contract. Might as well get used to him for a while. For the amount both are getting paid, I just think people have to start demanding more from both Jimmy and Bam when the going gets tough


Yes the Duncan signing thus far has been a failure. You can't put lipstick on a pig. Also remember Jimmy got booed last playoffs with his pathetic performance. As long as that was a fluke we are ok
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 2 - Can we get to first place? 

Post#854 » by greg4012 » Wed Feb 2, 2022 4:24 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
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This needs to be his automatic instinct when he has a smaller player on him. ATTACK

Our offense is really lacking in rim/paint pressure. Right now we work elbow out and have little real slashing to collapse the defense.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 2 - Can we get to first place? 

Post#855 » by Flash4thewin » Wed Feb 2, 2022 4:31 pm

somerandomdude wrote:Image

Spo is still on track to have his first 50 win season without the Big 3, but he might fall short if we don't go on a decent win streak.

And I know the regular season record is meaningless, but pretty much every NBA champion has hit that 50 win mark, with most of them being at 55 or more wins.


I guess the better question is are a real contender? I dont think we are without some trades.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 2 - Can we get to first place? 

Post#856 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Feb 2, 2022 4:50 pm

Flash4thewin wrote:
somerandomdude wrote:Image

Spo is still on track to have his first 50 win season without the Big 3, but he might fall short if we don't go on a decent win streak.

And I know the regular season record is meaningless, but pretty much every NBA champion has hit that 50 win mark, with most of them being at 55 or more wins.


I guess the better question is are a real contender? I dont think we are without some trades.


If we can get healthy and stay healthy we definitely are. A trade could definitely better the odds though and that should be the goal
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 2 - Can we get to first place? 

Post#857 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Feb 2, 2022 4:51 pm

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As I’ve been saying, he always has a mismatch
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 2 - Can we get to first place? 

Post#858 » by somerandomdude » Wed Feb 2, 2022 5:06 pm

Flash4thewin wrote:
somerandomdude wrote:Image

Spo is still on track to have his first 50 win season without the Big 3, but he might fall short if we don't go on a decent win streak.

And I know the regular season record is meaningless, but pretty much every NBA champion has hit that 50 win mark, with most of them being at 55 or more wins.


I guess the better question is are a real contender? I dont think we are without some trades.


Re: trades:

We'll be adding Dipo soon. That's pretty much the equivalent of a solid trade for us.

But I find it funny that people keep thinking we need to add pieces instead of questioning why our current roster isn't enough, especially when we've proven we were damn good without Jimmy and Bam.

Rewind back about a month ago and everyone was hyped up about how good we'd be once Jimmy and Bam got back. I shared skepticism in that belief (and have explained why), but a lot of people thought we were going to be dominant.

What's happened since then to change everyone's beliefs?

You can argue that it's because of Kyle Lowry, but I already showed what our record was with Lowry and Bam, and that lineup's projected record is about 7 losses worse than our best stretch of the season.

So yeah, you guys figure it out, because I already did.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 2 - Can we get to first place? 

Post#859 » by al bondiga » Wed Feb 2, 2022 5:17 pm

oreon wrote:
somerandomdude wrote:
al bondiga wrote:spo!! If you don't win at least one round in the playoffs or you don't make a significant change with this small ball BS ... I think you are getting fired before next season starts, brother!


That's the dilemma with Spo.

No one wants him fired, but we all recognize that he's set in his ways.

And Pat Riley is super keen on continuity and does not want to groom another head coach.

What I find most interesting is how Spo has deviated from Riley's public statements about the vision for the team. Two examples come to mind:

* Riley wanted Bam and Whiteside to play together, which Spo never really did
* Riley predicted that Bam would take on a bigger role in the offense this year, especially thinking that Kyle Lowry would elevate Bam's game, but Spo diminished Bam's role, instead

On top of that, Riley signed on Yurtz to give us a big who can stretch the floor and potentially play alongside Bam. I'm sure Riley loved what he saw from Yurtz because he coached many of the game's greatest bigs and understands their importance in winning championships. I can't imagine he was happy about seeing Yutrz benched after we rose from the 6th seed to the 2nd seed and looked legit without Bam, Dedmon, and Jimmy.

So Riley and Spo are a bit at odds as to the vision for this team and their philosophy on how to win the game.

If Spo doesn't prove that his philosophy and style can win, there could be issues between him and Spo. If Spo doesn't win, hopefully, it results in Spo coming to his sense and adapting.

But Spo may not take too kindly to not having complete control of the team or not being able to do things his way.


Riley is not a moron. Spo is recognized as the best coach in the NBA. He gets fired today most of the other teams would fire their coach to hire him. This anti-Spoism isn't rooted in sense of reality. It's a fact that he got a less talented team to the finals and barring Dragic and Bam injury could have won a title. It's a fact last year's team got screwed by the league and poor roster construction. It's a fact that we have overperformed our current position in the table based on the injuries.
And now he's getting blasted cuz we are loosing without Lowry because of the obsession of going big. We have all this team and one thing is has been true regardless of who is one the floor, Lowry is the most important player on this team. Regardless if Lowry is scoring or not, the offense doesn't flow without him. We got by the Bam and Butler injuries not because of Yurt but because of Lowry. But somehow Yurt is the MVP of this team ???

oreon... spo is very good but not the best... and come the playoffs all of the teams are tired you don't want to burn out your players buying guarding people 50 pounds heavier all year round
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 2 - Can we get to first place? 

Post#860 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Feb 2, 2022 5:28 pm

somerandomdude wrote:
Flash4thewin wrote:
somerandomdude wrote:Image

Spo is still on track to have his first 50 win season without the Big 3, but he might fall short if we don't go on a decent win streak.

And I know the regular season record is meaningless, but pretty much every NBA champion has hit that 50 win mark, with most of them being at 55 or more wins.


I guess the better question is are a real contender? I dont think we are without some trades.


Re: trades:

We'll be adding Dipo soon. That's pretty much the equivalent of a solid trade for us.

But I find it funny that people keep thinking we need to add pieces instead of questioning why our current roster isn't enough, especially when we've proven we were damn good without Jimmy and Bam.

Rewind back about a month ago and everyone was hyped up about how good we'd be once Jimmy and Bam got back. I shared skepticism in that belief (and have explained why), but a lot of people thought we were going to be dominant.

What's happened since then to change everyone's beliefs?

You can argue that it's because of Kyle Lowry, but I already showed what our record was with Lowry and Bam, and that lineup's projected record is about 7 losses worse than our best stretch of the season.

So yeah, you guys figure it out, because I already did.


Enlighten us
#FreeBam
#Klutch

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