720 wrote:pingpongrac wrote:720 wrote:It proves nothing because all I see are excuses.
Also what kind of twisted logic is this? lol so because these undermanned teams also win some games, all of a sudden that means it no longer matters that we literally have 9 wins vs teams that are missing STAR players? (No Embiid, Curry, Draymond, Mitchell, Lowry, Gobert, Giannis, Jrue, Trae, etc in our wins) lol that’s a joke.
Also sorry to break it to you but Siakam, OG, missing games say vs the Bucks or the sixers isn’t the same as Embiid and Giannis or Jrue missing those games. I love OG and I still think Siakam can be a great piece for us going forward but that’s just reality.
Also no I don’t think we’re going to be a high lottery team because we have too many fake wins. lol
It’s not trolling when I’m literally telling you the facts.
How is it twisted logic? If those undermanned teams we are beating are so bad, why are they winning 65% of their games against other teams when they are missing the same players? I also don't know where you're pulling up 9 wins against teams without star players because I see 6 (MIL without Giannis x2, PHI without Embiid, GSW without their whole team, UTA without their whole team, ATL without Trae). If all of those wins against teams missing their best players shouldn't count, why are you not acknowledging that basically every other team is benefitting from similar absences? Why do you not care about Cleveland beating Miami without Butler+Bam twice, Brooklyn without Durant, Milwaukee without Giannis+Middleton+Jrue or Utah without Gobert? Or what about the Bulls beating the Lakers without LeBron then AD and Denver without Jokic as well as Atlanta twice without half of their starters and key bench players? I could continue to go down the list through nearly every team in the league and pick out 4-6 wins against teams that were missing their best player and/or most of their starters due to protocols.
Obviously one of our starters missing a game isn't the same as Embiid/Giannis missing a game, but it is definitely significant when we are missing 2 starters against Boston (OG+GTJ), Memphis (OG+GTJ) and Phoenix (GTJ+Scottie). Also, how are you going to include Jrue and Lowry as "stars" then turn around and say us missing Siakam and FVV is irrelevant? Siakam and FVV have both clearly been better than Lowry and they have at least played at the same level as Jrue. If you're including Lowry/Jrue as stars, then you definitely have to put Siakam/FVV in the same tier, which completely wrecks any argument about us not being affected by our own absences.
The games where we were missing at least one of Siakam/FVV or two of OG/GTJ/Scottie accounted for 9 of our 16 losses against +.500 teams. One of those losses was the Cleveland blowout without our entire team, but that is basically nullified by one of the Warriors/Jazz wins. The other 8 were legitimate losses where we just came up short in most of them because we were missing either our best player or multiple starters. I have a hard time seeing us losing all of those one or two possession games to Chicago (twice), Cleveland, Philly and Phoenix as well as the three or four possession games against Boston, Dallas and Memphis. Shouldn't that mean our record against +.500 teams is skewed in the other direction?
At the very least, our overall record and record against +.500 teams would be nearly identical if every team was healthy for every game. We obviously wouldn't have won all of the games where we were without Siakam/FVV or GTJ+OG/Scottie, but we also wouldn't have lost all of the games we won against teams without their best player.
No, you are not telling facts. That much should be clear when you say you're too lazy to do any research. You are trying to push the narrative that we are the only team benefitting from beating undermanned teams when that is absolutely not the case at all.
This is such a backwards argument, also you’re just talking in circles it’s so boring, this is my last time addressing this. No one cares about how many wins an Embiidless sixers team has or a Curryless Warriors team has. At the end of the day we played both teams without their star players (many of our wins vs above .500 teams have been against teams missing star players btw).
I also don’t care what Cleveland does or any team for that matter. It’s irrelevant to me. We beat the bucks three times, twice without Giannis, once without Jrue. We beat the Heat twice the past few days without Lowry, we beat the hawks without Trae, we beat the warriors without their starting 5, we beat the jazz without their starting 5, Sixers without Embiid, Clippers right after PG went down. That’s 10 games. Would we have lost all 10 games had those guys played? No. But would all of them be wins? hell no.
And for the last time, the players I named above, are more impactful than OG missing a game or Siakam missing a game. They just are.
We’re 3 games above .500 but had our games vs all these teams not played out to our favour through rests and injury we could easily be in that Wizards Knicks range atm. These are facts.
You're the one opening this can of worms on yourself. If you want to claim that we would be in the Wizards/Knicks range, maybe you should take into account the games that those teams won against teams without their stars. If you think we should be discrediting wins from our record because we played against undermanned teams, so should every other team in the league -- which obviously keeps us above those teams below us.
Whichever way you want to slice it, FVV (especially) and Siakam have been significantly better and more impactful than Lowry this year while they have been better (FVV) or a bit worse (Siakam) than Holiday. If you're including one, the others need to be in the same tier -- especially if you're bringing up Lowry who hasn't even been playing at an all-star level.
Lowry: 13.4/4.5/8.3 (56 TS% and 20 TOV%), +2.5 EPM, +3.5 RAPTOR,.+2.6 on/off
Jrue: 18.0/4.7/6.5 (58 TS% and 15 TOV%), +4.2 EPM, +4.4 RAPTOR, +12.9 on/off
FVV: 21.5/4.7/7.0 (56 TS% and 12 TOV%), +5.0 EPM, +7.0 RAPTOR, +13.8 on/off
Siakam: 21.0/8.5/5.1 (55 TS% and 12 TOV%), +1.6 EPM, +0.8 RAPTOR, +9.0 on/off
I like how now you're throwing in PG and the Clippers into this discussion as if PG wasn't one of the most inefficient "stars" in the league (53 TS% and 15 TOV%) and the Clippers were barely .500 with PG playing. I'd love to hear more about how we can only win when the Clippers are without a fake-star in PG, Miami is missing their 3rd best player or when the defending champs are missing Giannis or Jrue while we are on a back-to-back, etc. Keep the excuses for why we're winning coming.
this is comedy.
