Former Miami Dolphins HC Brian Flores SUES the NFL FOR RACIAL DISCRIMINATION;owner offered HC $100k per loss 4 draft

[xAIRNESSx]

The Texans are the worst run team in the NFL where a pastor has the ear of the owner. They’re not a professional organization and the way they’re run doesn’t reflect how the other teams are run. They’re like King Tommen who has the High Sparrow in charge.

The Bears haven’t been the best when it comes to football operations, but the Bears just hired a black GM who hired a white coach. Did racism play a favor in hiring the white coach?

It’s difficult to say, and the best coach the Bears have had in my lifetime is Lovie, and I disagreed with firing him but I don’t think bringing him back now is the right now.

When was the last time we had a black gm and black coach pairing? I’d have to look that up. But it seems like black people in authority position don’t help other blacks out in the nfl. Look at tomlin and how little diversity he had on his coordinators. I wonder if they feel like they will get blowback so they don’t do it, but is something else to consider.

The Dolphins did. Brian Flores was hired by Chris Grier.

Ironically, Flores was fired most likely over a power struggle with Grier. Flowers wanted more power. The owner kept the GM and fired Flores.

Oddly enough, this point is not really being brought up in the media. Probably because it goes against the narrative.

[theoilslick]

Can someone please pinpoint where/when the discrimination took place?

I’m not saying it didn’t. I just haven’t seen it.

Because the Giants chose a candidate before interviewing Flores?

That may violate the Rooney Rule but I don’t see how it is discrimination. Maybe they just actually really really liked the other coach.

Is there more I haven’t seen?

If they had already chosen the other guy and interviewed Flores only to meet the conditions of the Rooney rule, do you not see how that's an issue?

Flores has good reason to believe that he was only interviewed to check off a box and that he was never a serious candidate for the position. Now, if he'd been interviewed prior to the other guy, you could at least make an argument that the Giants actually took Flores seriously as a candidate.

What were they supposed to do?

Let's say there's a rule that says you have to consider a minority woman before you marry. This is a rule, it's mandated. You have to date a minority before you can marry. Alright?

Well, let's also say you are already in love and want to get married. You have to go through the motions then don't you? It doesn't make you a racist, it just means you're in love. In this case, a team had a head coach picked out because you know... they wanted that head coach! It doesn't make it racism, but the rule says it doesn't matter, you still have to go through the motions. So, they did.

Analogies are not your forte. In reality, the Rooney rule is followed as a facade by the NFL GMs. And sure, race bias is present the second you’re born; but in maturity, you should behave humanely and treat races unbiased.

[DreamTeam09]

Not sure how many black coaches are out there, but, I just think that if you are employing 80-90% employees who are black, it would seem like a smart idea to get a black representative as their Boss/leader. Am I out to lunch with that thinking? Not saying that white guys can't coach, cause that's just dumb to think/believe, but more black coaches should definitely be out there leading a group that might have anywhere of up 40+ players on a roster+practice roster

[Rainwater]

Where the individuals who actually play the sport are predominantly black but the people who actually make the decisions (owners, HC, GMs) are predominantly white, there lies some kind of systemic racism.

I could see why most Owners are white since most billionaires are white. But most GMs (although this is changing) and HCs are typically guys who play the game. With a league league that predominantly black how could there not be more guys who hold these positions.

[Duke4life831]

Where the individuals who actually play the sport are predominantly black but the people who actually make the decisions (owners, HC, GMs) are predominantly white, there lies some kind of systemic racism.

I could see why most Owners are white since most billionaires are white. But most GMs (although this is changing) and HCs are typically guys who play the game. With a league league that predominantly black how could there not be more guys who hold these positions.

This isn’t true anymore. Again 25 out of the 32 head coaches last year never played in the NFL. The NFL has definitely made a clear change to looking to hire guys that have been coaches since college.

[BostonCouchGM]

so billionaire owners, desperate to win, use meritocracy when it comes to choosing players, but suddenly that goes out the window when choosing coaches? okay

I would imagine the things you're looking for from head coaching candidates are: experience, leadership, communication and intelligence. Flores was a petty loser that was a horrible leader. Go ask Stills, Tua and Minkah. He cycled through coordinators his whole stay and was clearly not on the same page as Grier and Ross when it came to Tua and his press conferences were laughable so his communication skills suck too. At the end of the day, he didn't have results on the field, failing to make the playoffs despite these same talking heads NOW claiming they weren't that talented, picking them to make the playoffs, largely because of their great young talent and Flores.

Any decent lawyer gets this frivolous lawsuit thrown out of court. Nothing in those texts is damning like people are claiming. The Giants did nothing wrong. Unless he has receipts for the 100k offer or tax statements showing he got those payments he has no leg to stand on with the Dolphins. And the Broncos have receipts that he's lying about their interview with him. So he's going to be exposed as a salty coach who is using race and the idiotic, woke and complicit media to strengthen this narrative, to get paid because his ego is bruised.

Notice how literally everyone is taking his accusations as truth. Not a single talking head doubts it or qualifies their headlines with "allegedly" It's all assumed to be true.

[azcatz11]

I'm still not understanding this. So if he would have gotten the Giants job - he wouldn't have filed the lawsuit and exposed Ross? Or if he didn't get any of the other 3 jobs he interviewed for?

And now all of a sudden he's playing the victim? Come on...

If AB paid his chef he wouldn’t have ratted him out on his fake vax card. Obviously people react when slighted

Okay and that's fine - but it's not like Flores is some hero and is so brave which is the narrative today.

[Rainwater]

Where the individuals who actually play the sport are predominantly black but the people who actually make the decisions (owners, HC, GMs) are predominantly white, there lies some kind of systemic racism.

I could see why most Owners are white since most billionaires are white. But most GMs (although this is changing) and HCs are typically guys who play the game. With a league league that predominantly black how could there not be more guys who hold these positions.

This isn’t true anymore. Again 25 out of the 32 head coaches last year never played in the NFL. The NFL has definitely made a clear change to looking to hire guys that have been coaches since college.

But that still doesn't answer the question why there aren't more African American head coaches. The next question would be why aren't there more black college head coaches? You can't tell me the people who predominantly play the game are not interested in coaching it.

[NZB2323]

I'm not going to read though this thread because I am sure there are a lot of idiotic takes and I just don't have the patience to deal with that. The majority of this board just isn't knowledgeable and experienced enough to deal with anything race related.

I love the NFL, but it is about as corrupt and "good ole boys club" as it gets. We have seen it time and time and time again. (Bruce Allen, Jon Gruden, etc etc etc)

There is ONE current black head coach in the NFL right now.

Brian Flores and David Culley both got fired, even though they did very well considering the teams they coached/circumstances surrounding them.

Bills OC and Packers OC just got head coaching jobs. White dudes.
Chiefs OC and Buccaneers OC met in the Super Bowl last year. Both led amazing offenses. Neither one is a head coach right now. Black dudes.

Texans have interviewed Josh McCown for the past couple of years, and he's an ASSISTANT HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL COACH.

Eric Beinemy can hardly get an interview, even though he's led one of the best offenses in quite a while for years.

I know the NBA and the MLB has it's problems, but none are nearly in poor of shape as the NFL. It's a huge problem, and it's only getting worse.

First of all Leftwich was offered the Jaguars job and won’t take it unless they fire there GM and he’ll fail as a coach anyways like the rest of the OC that Brady made looo good. Did you expect Culley to stay as coach dude was an interim head coach with a new GM hired let’s use reasoning here as to why he wasn’t brought back

it seems to me black coaches get the "janitor" job via interim title, they get a role at a team that has rocky currents to ride it out, and then when the water smooths, they fire the coach and bring in someone else.

Mike Tomlin has been the head coach of the Steelers for 15 years.

Tony Dungy was the coach of the Bucs for 6 years. I guess you could say the Bucs were wrong to fire him but they won a Super Bowl with a different coach. Then Dungy coached the Colts for 7 years and retired after that, leaving on his own terms.

Lovie Smith was the coach of the Bears for 9 seasons. The Bears fired him after going 10-6 and missing the playoffs for the 5th time in 6 years. I think that was due to the Bears ownership being frustrated more so than racism. The Bears also fired Ditka in 1992, even though he coached the Bears to a Super Bowl and is a folk hero in Chicago. The Bears just hired a black GM who hired a white coach. Did racism play a role there?

I think in general NFL teams aren’t run well, owners are overly optimistic and don’t have patience for losing, and hiring the “best” coach isn’t an exact science.

I think there are instances where a black coach being fired is wrong, but also cases where a white coach being fired is wrong.

To bring this over to the NBA, the Kings have had 11 head coaches since 2006. I think firing Mike Malone when the team was losing games with Demarcus Cousins injured was ridiculous. If they fire Alvin Gentry, is that because he’s not the right man for the job, ownership is too impatient, or racism?

It seems like Doc Rivers will always have a head coaching job in the NBA, no matter how many 3-1 leads he blows.

[SK21209]

Where the individuals who actually play the sport are predominantly black but the people who actually make the decisions (owners, HC, GMs) are predominantly white, there lies some kind of systemic racism.

I could see why most Owners are white since most billionaires are white. But most GMs (although this is changing) and HCs are typically guys who play the game. With a league league that predominantly black how could there not be more guys who hold these positions.

There is no reason why the percentage of black players should correlate with the percentage of black coaches/front office executives. As the other posted, most NFL coaches have never played in the league at this point. Furthermore, playing football requires a fundamentally different skillset than coaching a football team or managing one, obviously the former is largely predicated on physical attributes while the latter has no physical component other than the stamina to work long hours. You can't use "systemic racism" as a god-of-the-gaps argument to explain away any discrepancy you can't explain immediately explain. I mean I guess you can, but it renders the term meaningless.

[OakleyDokely]

This is a league that's covered up life threatening head injuries, is the only major league that doesnt guarantee contracts for all their players who risk their long term health and they shunned a guy for peacefully kneeling for the national anthem. Some racism isn't exactly a shocking development from this group.

[AbeVigodaLive]

For what it's worth... historically (which basically begins in 1989 with the hiring of Art Shell)...

There's only minimal statistical difference between white and minority head coaches.

Minority coaches (through 2020) have 1,185 wins and 1,154 losses (50.6%).


[Note: I sorta wish there was more of a statistical difference so one side or the other could run with that narrative online. Oh, and Hue Jackson almost single-handedly offsets the solid work from Dungy and Tomlin with his laughable 11 - 44 career mark.]

[righterwriter]

You have to be a bit insane to want to be an NFL coach, as well. These guys eat, sleep, and breathe football. They're in the office before 6am and out the door at 8pm.

If you've made millions of dollars as a player, why would you choose to endure that, unless you are obsessive and want to do nothing but work?

I think people are looking at this without proper perspective when wondering why the number of black players doesn't translate to black head coaches.

[SK21209]

Where the individuals who actually play the sport are predominantly black but the people who actually make the decisions (owners, HC, GMs) are predominantly white, there lies some kind of systemic racism.

I could see why most Owners are white since most billionaires are white. But most GMs (although this is changing) and HCs are typically guys who play the game. With a league league that predominantly black how could there not be more guys who hold these positions.

This isn’t true anymore. Again 25 out of the 32 head coaches last year never played in the NFL. The NFL has definitely made a clear change to looking to hire guys that have been coaches since college.

But that still doesn't answer the question why there aren't more African American head coaches. The next question would be why aren't there more black college head coaches? You can't tell me the people who predominantly play the game are not interested in coaching it.

I'm sure they are. But the pool of persons from which coaches are selected is not limited to just the players that play at the collegiate or professional level, its everyone who wants to coach football. Belichick played at Wesleyan and then immediately took a $25 per week assistant job with the Baltimore Colts when he graduated. Maybe there's some discussion to be had about young, aspiring white coaches more often having the financial means to take chances on low-paying assistant coaching jobs like that to get their foot in the door somewhere. Maybe actually playing in the league puts you at a disadvantage because you get your first job coaching/working for a team later in life than someone set out on that career path earlier because they weren't good enough to pay in college or the pros. Both coaches in the Super Bowl this year, McVay and Zac Taylor, played in college but never made it to the league, so they got their assistant jobs while they were still in their 20s. It's certainly a confluence of factors, and sure maybe in some instances someone isn't hired because they're black, but it makes no rational sense to draw the line between the percentage of black players and percentage of black coaches and then just chalk it up racism, and there's no real evidence to back that up either.

[Jkam31]

When was the last time we had a black gm and black coach pairing? I’d have to look that up. But it seems like black people in authority position don’t help other blacks out in the nfl. Look at tomlin and how little diversity he had on his coordinators. I wonder if they feel like they will get blowback so they don’t do it, but is something else to consider.

The Dolphins did. Brian Flores was hired by Chris Grier.

Ironically, Flores was fired most likely over a power struggle with Grier. Flowers wanted more power. The owner kept the GM and fired Flores.

Oddly enough, this point is not really being brought up in the media. Probably because it goes against the narrative.

Did you expect anything different

[jokeboy86]

When was the last time we had a black gm and black coach pairing? I’d have to look that up. But it seems like black people in authority position don’t help other blacks out in the nfl. Look at tomlin and how little diversity he had on his coordinators. I wonder if they feel like they will get blowback so they don’t do it, but is something else to consider.

The Dolphins did. Brian Flores was hired by Chris Grier.

Ironically, Flores was fired most likely over a power struggle with Grier. Flowers wanted more power. The owner kept the GM and fired Flores.

Oddly enough, this point is not really being brought up in the media. Probably because it goes against the narrative.

Jason La Canfora brought this up before this week about how Flores wanted a lot more power and no matter how Miami finished the season the writing was always going to be on the wall for him to be fired.

In some ways this is similar to the Kaepernick situation imo because the message and overall points that both Kaepernick and Flores are trying to make are legitimate things that should be discussed but there also is some personal anger I believe involved in their motivation to speak on it.

[KingDavid]

Can someone explain why teams have to interview someone who is black anyway?

The only argument I've seen is that 75% or so of the players are black, but it should be obvious that being a good coach and being a good player are two ENTIRELY different skillsets right?

by this logic why not institute this rule for players as well. Lets get some White defensive backs! hell lets get some asian, indian, hispanic representation ANYWHERE.

It's not just for black people. I posted what the Rooney rule is in the first page.

[KingDavid]

I'm still not understanding this. So if he would have gotten the Giants job - he wouldn't have filed the lawsuit and exposed Ross? Or if he didn't get any of the other 3 jobs he interviewed for?

And now all of a sudden he's playing the victim? Come on...

He was mistakenly congratulated on a job that was meant to be sent to another coach. He was scheduled to interview for that job a few days later.

[AbeVigodaLive]

This isn’t true anymore. Again 25 out of the 32 head coaches last year never played in the NFL. The NFL has definitely made a clear change to looking to hire guys that have been coaches since college.

But that still doesn't answer the question why there aren't more African American head coaches. The next question would be why aren't there more black college head coaches? You can't tell me the people who predominantly play the game are not interested in coaching it.

... then immediately took a $25 per week assistant job with the Baltimore Colts when he graduated. Maybe there's some discussion to be had about young, aspiring white coaches more often having the financial means to take chances on low-paying assistant coaching jobs like that to get their foot in the door somewhere. Maybe actually playing in the league puts you at a disadvantage because you get your first job coaching/working for a team later in life than someone set out on that career path earlier because they weren't good enough to pay in college or the pros...

There's a lot of truth in this post. I think I heard a similar line of thinking about people who work in Hollywood or comedy writers or something. Often, they have more means and/or support to tolerate those low-paying menial jobs in their 20s or beyond.

Likewise, it's "highly likely" racism has indeed surfaced at some point during hiring cycles. After all, the NFL has several owners who were adults when schools were still segregated.

[ForeverTFC]

Is there people out there that actually believe the NFL is NOT racist? People would regularly and openly say "you can't win with a black QB" 10 years ago.

I haven't read enough to comment on the merits of this specific case, so I will hold off there.