Noah's updated thoughts on Cleveland

[Sixerscan]

I don't get why people think living in/visiting "Chicago" means you're in some shady neighborhood on the South Side.

[BallerTalk]

I mean yeah, Cleveland isn't great, but is Chicago really either? It's a lot bigger, I'll give it that, but it seems to suffer from the same issues Cleveland does.

To call your comment clueless would seem offensive and that's not my intent, but there does seem to be a certain amount of awareness lacking.

[MrSparkle]

Always bugs me when people knock Chicago’s crime. Sure, it’s a reality, but Chicago’s crime is kind of the same as any old metropolis with huge population and tons of income brackets. It’s nonsensical talking about it as a single city’s problem. It’s a problem all across the country. Neighborhoods with massive poverty and low amounts of home-owners tend to have crime problems. Coupled with homelessness. I don’t see why you’d knock a city for that. That’s on the federal government for having a long history of distorted social policy and safety nets.. and the result of pre Civil Rights city/state planning.

If you want to go the Dubai/Rio route and just shove all the poor people in outskirt favellas and build tall iron gated communities for the rich and poor to separate them, then let’s not kid ourselves and call the US a 1st world country. Then again, that’s what we’ve become. I see Florida’s home real estate is booming. Lots of those gates communities and private beaches there. Of course you can always just sweep the statistics under the rug ala DeSantis, but they do have major homeless and crime problems in their much smaller and more recently built cities.

Anyway, I don’t see what’s so special about Denver. I was going to move there last year but we decided not to buy a dinky house at 100-200% jumps in evaluation, with a growing air quality problem and forest fires. Also the traffic going into the rockies and parks is insane. The east/south suburbs of Denver are as drab as anywhere. Might as well live in Wyoming for 1/4 the price. Yes please to buying bargain property in Denver 10y ago, but I get the sense that fad will crash in the next decade, unless you have enough millions of dollars to afford a really nice place in the mountains (with all the insurance and upkeep costs that involves).

Anyway… yes, Cleveland. Hey, I’ve seen nice and ugly parts of Cleveland. But fact is nobody outside of Ohio liked Lebron when Noah said Cleveland sucks.

So because crime is prevalent in all major cities you ignore it as a factor? That sounds like what the leadership in San Francisco is doing and guess what...the crime is getting worse.

Sometimes you can have two undesirable choices but one can be worse than the other...comparing Denver to Chicago and one is clearly better than the other based on safety...and isn't safety the #1 factor in our society right now. I mean we have to be safe above anything else.




Chicago does get an unfair rap as being the murder capital of the US and I have friends that say there are nice parts of Chicago....but why would I move there compared to other locations that won't have that issue? That's the tradeoff, do you want access to metropolitans, a wide variety of people/culture/restaurants/activities vs suburban living that may be more isolated, homogenous, and slower paced.

I don't ignore it. I think on the whole, cities are more of a powder keg now, but there are tons of factors. The looming debate of police rights (which btw I'm on both sides of the fence, but unfortunately it's devolved into polarizing mainstream identity politics). The low employment numbers. The pandemic restrictions. Small and large businesses folding over or closing down. Lot of restaurants and venues of course had to shut down or change hands.

There are literally hundreds of areas where crime is never an issue in Chicago. I lived in "dangerous" neighborhoods (not nearly as dangerous as Englewood or Garfield Park, but still up there in crime activity) over the time-span of 15 years and was victim to zero crimes.

Of course Denver is safer on the whole, but it's a much smaller town with far less population density. You can live in one part of Chicago that's as big and "safe" as Denver if you want to. The city's population is almost 4x larger.

Somebody looking at property in Denver isn't going to be comparing that to Chicago's Garfield Park. If you're talking about 350k+ budget, then you can afford to live in a neighborhood where crime simply isn't a thing, just like the nice parts of Denver. In fact, now that real estate prices have gone bananas, I'd say 500K will take you much further in Chicago than in Denver. IL taxes might be a *****, but I'm imagining things like homeowner's insurance and other taxes will start adding up a lot as the property values and natural disasters have astronomically risen in places like CO. Early in the pandemic in Denver, the 500k FIXER-UPPER houses and neighborhoods I was checking out were actually looking awfully reminiscent of the rough parts of Chicago, where you could buy a remodeled flipped/house for 200k.

The other thing, is a lot of cities that "fixed" crime... basically just displaced it. Crime happens where poverty levels are high. If it's not in one part of Denver anymore, it'll move over to some small town outside the city, albeit on a much smaller scale. We've seen that play out in Chicago for the past 3 decades... on a very large scale.

Honestly, at this point, all culture, entertainment and real estate has largely become homogenized. I sincerely think there's no difference between living in a lot of cities in America. NYC, ATX, CHI and NASH have more live music than any other town, if that matters to you.

Beyond that, I'll admit I'd much rather live next to palm trees or mountains. And I did recently move south for warmer weather. Glad I lived in Chicago, but it's nice to change it up.

[Nate505]

I mean yeah, Cleveland isn't great, but is Chicago really either? It's a lot bigger, I'll give it that, but it seems to suffer from the same issues Cleveland does.

To call your comment clueless would seem offensive and that's not my intent, but there does seem to be a certain amount of awareness lacking.

So it doesn't suffer from the same issues Cleveland does?

[Childs]

Go out and explore the world beyond your city.

[SalmonsSuperfan]

lol chicago is actually a world class city. i love this denver fanboy talking about median home price like that's some metric...**** compton, california has a higher median home price than denver, let's all move there!

lived in both cities btw. denver sucks. would probably rather live in fort collins lol

[Raps in 4]

Always bugs me when people knock Chicago’s crime. Sure, it’s a reality, but Chicago’s crime is kind of the same as any old metropolis

*Any old American metropolis. The rest of the world figured out the secret to ending gun crime decades ago.

[InsideInfo]

Wrong. Cleveland has the 2nd biggest arts/theatre district in the country. Its only second to Broadway.

The only reason Chicagos restaurants/nighlife could be considered 'better' is simply because there are more of them. Clevelands food scene is extremely well known in the foodie world.

I would also put up the Rock Hall, Pro Football HOF and Cedar Point (largest roller coaster park in the country) against any 'tourist attraction' Chicago has to offer.

Sounds like you may be from there?

I've been to Cleveland about a dozen times. Each and every time I went there i thought it sucked.

Thats because you were with people that dont know what the hell they are doing or where to go. Ive been through this with people a million times where they tell me they went when visiting and its facepalm worthy.

BC you know who i was there with?

You could go to Chicago alone and not really need anyone to tell you what to do or where to go. Its like if i go to NYC for the first time i want to see Time Square and the Statue of Liberty. WTF do you you want to see in Cleveland?

Go to Chicago and you want to see Navy Pier or the top of the Sears tower.

Like I said. You are probably from there and if you like it thats fine. Lets not pretend like Noah wasn't 100% correct about Cleveland. Nobody is headed there on Vacation.

[MrBigShot]

Crime aside, Chicago's great. Noah is right about Cleveland. Super boring, have to get take the highway to get anywhere.

[MrSparkle]

Always bugs me when people knock Chicago’s crime. Sure, it’s a reality, but Chicago’s crime is kind of the same as any old metropolis

*Any old American metropolis. The rest of the world figured out the secret to ending gun crime decades ago.

True. Too deep in it to change this absurdity though, without a civil war.

[Sedale Threatt]

I mean yeah, Cleveland isn't great, but is Chicago really either? It's a lot bigger, I'll give it that, but it seems to suffer from the same issues Cleveland does.

I'd say with a lot of confidence that Chicago's nightlife, restaurants, museums, shopping, and tourist attractions are all better than Cleveland.

Time to break out some classics...

Watch on YouTube

[oikosnomos]

Born and grew up in Cleveland and have lived in Chicago for the past 13 years.

Most of these takes on both cities reek of ignorance. Both have good and bad things about them. It depends on what you are going to them for and what you want out of each.

I did think the commercial was fun and clever though. Still don't like Joakim, though.

[shakes0]

I mean yeah, Cleveland isn't great, but is Chicago really either? It's a lot bigger, I'll give it that, but it seems to suffer from the same issues Cleveland does.

I'd say with a lot of confidence that Chicago's nightlife, restaurants, museums, shopping, and tourist attractions are all better than Cleveland.

Yes, there is crime, but overall, I feel pretty safe downtown Chicago.

anyone saying good things about Chicago obviously hasn't been there in a couple years. I lived there from 1995 - 2020 and it was an amazing city, best city in the entire country during teh summer months. But, ever since George Floyd and now Covid the city has completely gone to crap. Criminals are not being charged. Car jacking has replaced Uber. Flash mob crimes are a regular occurrence. Downtown is just as dangerous as any other neighborhood. Same with the formerly nice neighborhoods like Lincoln Park, Lakeview and Wrigleyville. All crime ridden these days.

I got lucky in that I moved to the suburbs two weeks after Covid. Just pure random luck. Decided to move a at the start of the year and bought a house in February and sold my condo in Chicago in 3 days. Was able to get $50,000 of asking price on my house. Nowadays all the houses in my neighborhood are selling for asking price or even above asking price and good luck trying to sell a condo in Chicago in 3 days.

It really is a shame what has become of my once proud City. Disgusting to be honest.

[Clocian]

Didn't quite expect this direction for the thread

[-Sammy-]

Threads like this make me not miss being a moderator.

Some of y'all can turn anything into an argument of petty one-upmanship and mean-spirited attacks on anything that isn't your thing.

[Cubbies2120]

Threads like this make me not miss being a moderator.

Some of y'all can turn anything into an argument of petty one-upmanship and mean-spirited attacks on anything that isn't your thing.

I disagree - I don't think that anything can be turned into an argument, and I certainly don't see any mean spirited attacks here.

[LivingLegend]

lol chicago is actually a world class city. i love this denver fanboy talking about median home price like that's some metric...**** compton, california has a higher median home price than denver, let's all move there!

lived in both cities btw. denver sucks. would probably rather live in fort collins lol

....Denver is one of the cleanest and nicest cities I have ever been to. Its about the only city I have ever been to when I felt completely safe walking around past midnight.

It also has some of the best skiing/snowboarding in the world. But then again Im not sure why somebody who doesnt ski/snowboard/hike would move there. Its like moving to FLA and never going to the beach.

If you never get out and take advantage of the entire reason why the city is awesome, then ya cant really complain how much the city sucks.

[SalmonsSuperfan]

lol chicago is actually a world class city. i love this denver fanboy talking about median home price like that's some metric...**** compton, california has a higher median home price than denver, let's all move there!

lived in both cities btw. denver sucks. would probably rather live in fort collins lol

....Denver is one of the cleanest and nicest cities I have ever been to. Its about the only city I have ever been to when I felt completely safe walking around past midnight.

It also has some of the best skiing/snowboarding in the world. But then again Im not sure why somebody who doesnt ski/snowboard/hike would move there. Its like moving to FLA and never going to the beach.

i lived around the ballpark, an ostensibly 'nice' area, and it was far from clean and nice. needles and trash everywhere. on two occasions homeless people tried to break into my house. somehow that was still better than the crusty ass "i'm socially a liberal but economically a conservative" patagonia yuppies.

the proximity to natural beauty is wonderful though. it's a cool place to visit but it's frankly absurd to compare it to a global city like chicago. denver's urban core is like the 1/10 the size of chicago. chicago has the sixth largest economy of any city in the world, denver is like 50. cultural assets of these places matches the economic activity.

[LivingLegend]

lol chicago is actually a world class city. i love this denver fanboy talking about median home price like that's some metric...**** compton, california has a higher median home price than denver, let's all move there!

lived in both cities btw. denver sucks. would probably rather live in fort collins lol

....Denver is one of the cleanest and nicest cities I have ever been to. Its about the only city I have ever been to when I felt completely safe walking around past midnight.

It also has some of the best skiing/snowboarding in the world. But then again Im not sure why somebody who doesnt ski/snowboard/hike would move there. Its like moving to FLA and never going to the beach.

i lived around the ballpark, an ostensibly 'nice' area, and it was far from clean and nice. needles and trash everywhere. on two occasions homeless people tried to break into my house. somehow that was still better than the crusty ass "i'm socially a liberal but economically a conservative" patagonia yuppies.

the proximity to natural beauty is wonderful though. it's a cool place to visit but it's frankly absurd to compare it to a global city like chicago. denver's urban core is like the 1/10 the size of chicago. chicago has the sixth largest economy of any city in the world, denver is like 50. cultural assets of these places matches the economic activity.

Thats fine, all people have different opinions. I have been to Chicago and I dont think its a place I would want to live personally. Its expensive, overcrowded, unsafe and there is no real defining characteristic of it that would make it all worth it like mountains/beaches. It just a big *** midwestern city where its most known for business.

If I was going to go that route I would much rather live in a place like Columbus which is similar characteristics as Chicago, just on a smaller scale.

[JonFromVA]

When I think of Cleveland, the actual city is just a tiny part of it. So, yeah, to truly see North East Ohio you have to get in your car and go places. Fortunately, the traffic isn't completely nuts and you can actually do that. You don't even have to drive highways, because there are cross streets that go everywhere too.

One nice thing about Cleveland is that it hasn't completely succumbed to the national chains like higher priced areas have.