ice trae- stop sleeping

[CBS7]

Everyone who's getting overly defensive about people talking about Trae's defense... I don't know if anyone is saying he's not a star or not a deserving allstar because of his defense. He's definitely still a star and a top player. But if he was a decent defender he'd be top 5.

[Texas Chuck]

It's crazy to me how fans put so much value on Trae's scoring and ignore the fact that he can't guard a dead body.

Well his offensive positives outweigh his defensive negatives so that's probably why.

Plus we all already know he's not a good defender. So randomly bringing it up just to bag on the guy feels lame and pointless.

Now one can argue how relevant any arbitrary statistical mark is, but I'm never bothered by fans wanting to enjoy those marks. This is supposed to be fun after all.

A PG who averages 20 6 and 5 with elite defense is much more valuable than the one who averages 28 and kills his team with his horrible effort on the other end.

If you want to hype up FVV knock yourself out. But this isn't zero sum so Trae can be celebrated as well.

[CoachD]

Well his offensive positives outweigh his defensive negatives so that's probably why.

Plus we all already know he's not a good defender. So randomly bringing it up just to bag on the guy feels lame and pointless.

Now one can argue how relevant any arbitrary statistical mark is, but I'm never bothered by fans wanting to enjoy those marks. This is supposed to be fun after all.

A PG who averages 20 6 and 5 with elite defense is much more valuable than the one who averages 28 and kills his team with his horrible effort on the other end.

If you want to hype up FVV knock yourself out. But this isn't zero sum so Trae can be celebrated as well.

Basketball fans and media put WAY too much stock in offensive numbers from players who can't defend.

Period.

[Texas Chuck]

A PG who averages 20 6 and 5 with elite defense is much more valuable than the one who averages 28 and kills his team with his horrible effort on the other end.

If you want to hype up FVV knock yourself out. But this isn't zero sum so Trae can be celebrated as well.

Basketball fans and media put WAY too much stock in offensive numbers from players who can't defend.

Period.

Sure.

But that's not relevant to Trae who is a legit elite player. This isn't peak Boogie Cousins or Kevin Martin or CJ McCollum.

This is one of the very best offensive players in the world. We should put a lot of stock in that even with his defensive issues.

[Tor_Raps]

If you want to hype up FVV knock yourself out. But this isn't zero sum so Trae can be celebrated as well.

Basketball fans and media put WAY too much stock in offensive numbers from players who can't defend.

Period.

Sure.

But that's not relevant to Trae who is a legit elite player. This isn't peak Boogie Cousins or Kevin Martin or CJ McCollum.

This is one of the very best offensive players in the world. We should put a lot of stock in that even with his defensive issues.

I get that Trae's defense is bad but I thought his success in last years playoffs would shut people up for a bit. I love Fred but don't even mention his name in the same sentence as Trae until he leads the Raptors past the first round, let alone winning 2 games in the conference finals.

Trae's on another level in terms of impact. Now if he can make his defense passable like Steph had later in his career, you're looking at a future top 5 player.

[kg01]

Fred played a much superior game last night. Trey is extremely gifted offensively but his defense is just abysmal. The excuse that he can never get better defensively is BS. Of course he can.

Nobody thinks this.

[oldncreaky]

Basketball fans and media put WAY too much stock in offensive numbers from players who can't defend.

Period.

Sure.

But that's not relevant to Trae who is a legit elite player. This isn't peak Boogie Cousins or Kevin Martin or CJ McCollum.

This is one of the very best offensive players in the world. We should put a lot of stock in that even with his defensive issues.

I get that Trae's defense is bad but I thought his success in last years playoffs would shut people up for a bit. I love Fred but don't even mention his name in the same sentence as Trae until he leads the Raptors past the first round, let alone winning 2 games in the conference finals.

Trae's on another level in terms of impact. Now if he can make his defense passable like Steph had later in his career, you're looking at a future top 5 player.

I agree that Trae' offense is worth the squeeze of sub-par defense, and in the playoffs he puts out enough effort.

I think the Atlanta posters who point to Bogi as the bigger issue are right. It is possible to hide 1 guy on defense, but not 2. Put Trae next to a plus defender like Smart and it is a very different story.

[CoachD]

Basketball fans and media put WAY too much stock in offensive numbers from players who can't defend.

Period.

Sure.

But that's not relevant to Trae who is a legit elite player. This isn't peak Boogie Cousins or Kevin Martin or CJ McCollum.

This is one of the very best offensive players in the world. We should put a lot of stock in that even with his defensive issues.

I get that Trae's defense is bad but I thought his success in last years playoffs would shut people up for a bit. I love Fred but don't even mention his name in the same sentence as Trae until he leads the Raptors past the first round, let alone winning 2 games in the conference finals.

Trae's on another level in terms of impact. Now if he can make his defense passable like Steph had later in his career, you're looking at a future top 5 player.

You're talkin abour the same Fred who Hubie Brown voted as Finals MVP in 2019?

The guy who destroyed the Bucks in the conference finals?
Ok

[Tor_Raps]

Sure.

But that's not relevant to Trae who is a legit elite player. This isn't peak Boogie Cousins or Kevin Martin or CJ McCollum.

This is one of the very best offensive players in the world. We should put a lot of stock in that even with his defensive issues.

I get that Trae's defense is bad but I thought his success in last years playoffs would shut people up for a bit. I love Fred but don't even mention his name in the same sentence as Trae until he leads the Raptors past the first round, let alone winning 2 games in the conference finals.

Trae's on another level in terms of impact. Now if he can make his defense passable like Steph had later in his career, you're looking at a future top 5 player.

You're talkin abour the same Fred who Hubie Brown voted as Finals MVP in 2019?

The guy who destroyed the Bucks in the conference finals?
Ok

Are you seriously comparing Fred as a 6th/7th man on that team vs Trae who was the clear best player of his team? Come on man lol.

[Sothron]

Fred played a much superior game last night. Trey is extremely gifted offensively but his defense is just abysmal. The excuse that he can never get better defensively is BS. Of course he can.

He got lucky from three, that's all he did. His defense didn't stop a sneeze. What are you talking about? The Raps played the Hawks on the second of a back to back AGAIN. The Raps were at home the day before they had no travel meanwhile the Hawks played, ya know, the best team in the NBA the night before and had to travel and go through customs and play a game. Big difference.

Trae's defense is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be. Our main issue this year has been the wing defenders not Trae's man.

[Feed Your Head]

Advanced defensive stats aren’t there yet, but usually if there’s a consensus, it’s for a reason. Trae is in the bottom 1 percentile for D LEBRON, and box LEBRON. He’s in the 5th percentile in LADRAPM, the 7th percentile in DBPM. Same story for defensive RAPTOR, EPM, and DPM.

He’s an incredible offensive player, but he’s legitimately atrocious defensively. That said, I think he will be able to work up from atrocious to just normal bad. And with what he brings offensively, bad to below average defense is more than enough. Upgrading from Bogi to a good defensive two would also help mask Trae some, on that end. It’s tough when both backcourt guys are such poor defenders.

[ForeverTFC]

Fred played a much superior game last night. Trey is extremely gifted offensively but his defense is just abysmal. The excuse that he can never get better defensively is BS. Of course he can.

He got lucky from three, that's all he did. His defense didn't stop a sneeze. What are you talking about? The Raps played the Hawks on the second of a back to back AGAIN. The Raps were at home the day before they had no travel meanwhile the Hawks played, ya know, the best team in the NBA the night before and had to travel and go through customs and play a game. Big difference.

Trae's defense is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be. Our main issue this year has been the wing defenders not Trae's man.

This shows a complete lack of understanding when it comes to defense.

[oldncreaky]

Fred played a much superior game last night. Trey is extremely gifted offensively but his defense is just abysmal. The excuse that he can never get better defensively is BS. Of course he can.

He got lucky from three, that's all he did. His defense didn't stop a sneeze. What are you talking about? The Raps played the Hawks on the second of a back to back AGAIN. The Raps were at home the day before they had no travel meanwhile the Hawks played, ya know, the best team in the NBA the night before and had to travel and go through customs and play a game. Big difference.

Trae's defense is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be. Our main issue this year has been the wing defenders not Trae's man.

Raptors: 4th game in 5 nights, 5th in 7 nights, including OTs and no blow outs the starters could rest. I get that Atlanta had to travel, but so did Toronto when they beat Miami earlier this week on a second night of a b2b.

One of the reasons that Fred had a good night from 3 was because of the way Atlanta was playing the PnR with Fred and Pascal.

Both Fred and Pascal were getting wide open 3 point shots off of a simple pick up top. Whether that is more the fault of Trae, or the Capell/Okongwu big helping, I'll let those who know Atlanta better speak to because I don't draw conclusions from a1 game sample. However, that was the play that let Fred and Pascal shoot a combined 8 of 13 from 3 point land, and Atlanta couldn't stop it, and that was a huge factor in determining the winner.

[Sothron]

Fred played a much superior game last night. Trey is extremely gifted offensively but his defense is just abysmal. The excuse that he can never get better defensively is BS. Of course he can.

He got lucky from three, that's all he did. His defense didn't stop a sneeze. What are you talking about? The Raps played the Hawks on the second of a back to back AGAIN. The Raps were at home the day before they had no travel meanwhile the Hawks played, ya know, the best team in the NBA the night before and had to travel and go through customs and play a game. Big difference.

Trae's defense is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be. Our main issue this year has been the wing defenders not Trae's man.

This shows a complete lack of understanding when it comes to defense.

Right. I'm only the son of a basketball coach and started at point guard in college basketball. Clearly I have a lack of understanding when it comes to defense.

[Sothron]

Read on Twitter

[ChuckChilly]

It's crazy to me how fans put so much value on Trae's scoring and ignore the fact that he can't guard a dead body.

Well his offensive positives outweigh his defensive negatives so that's probably why.

Plus we all already know he's not a good defender. So randomly bringing it up just to bag on the guy feels lame and pointless.

Now one can argue how relevant any arbitrary statistical mark is, but I'm never bothered by fans wanting to enjoy those marks. This is supposed to be fun after all.

A PG who averages 20 6 and 5 with elite defense is much more valuable than the one who averages 28 and kills his team with his horrible effort on the other end.

So is a healthy Malcolm Brogdon better than Trae? Because the numbers you listed are basically what he puts up. Also I like how you conventionally left off that Trae averages almost 10 assist and 4 rebounds a game. The man literally contributes to AT LEAST 48 points a night.

Sent from my SM-T970 using Tapatalk

[ForeverTFC]

He got lucky from three, that's all he did. His defense didn't stop a sneeze. What are you talking about? The Raps played the Hawks on the second of a back to back AGAIN. The Raps were at home the day before they had no travel meanwhile the Hawks played, ya know, the best team in the NBA the night before and had to travel and go through customs and play a game. Big difference.

Trae's defense is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be. Our main issue this year has been the wing defenders not Trae's man.

This shows a complete lack of understanding when it comes to defense.

Right. I'm only the son of a basketball coach and started at point guard in college basketball. Clearly I have a lack of understanding when it comes to defense.

Advanced defensive stats aren’t there yet, but usually if there’s a consensus, it’s for a reason. Trae is in the bottom 1 percentile for D LEBRON, and box LEBRON. He’s in the 5th percentile in LADRAPM, the 7th percentile in DBPM. Same story for defensive RAPTOR, EPM, and DPM.

He’s an incredible offensive player, but he’s legitimately atrocious defensively. That said, I think he will be able to work up from atrocious to just normal bad. And with what he brings offensively, bad to below average defense is more than enough. Upgrading from Bogi to a good defensive two would also help mask Trae some, on that end. It’s tough when both backcourt guys are such poor defenders.

[Sothron]

This shows a complete lack of understanding when it comes to defense.

Right. I'm only the son of a basketball coach and started at point guard in college basketball. Clearly I have a lack of understanding when it comes to defense.

Advanced defensive stats aren’t there yet, but usually if there’s a consensus, it’s for a reason. Trae is in the bottom 1 percentile for D LEBRON, and box LEBRON. He’s in the 5th percentile in LADRAPM, the 7th percentile in DBPM. Same story for defensive RAPTOR, EPM, and DPM.

He’s an incredible offensive player, but he’s legitimately atrocious defensively. That said, I think he will be able to work up from atrocious to just normal bad. And with what he brings offensively, bad to below average defense is more than enough. Upgrading from Bogi to a good defensive two would also help mask Trae some, on that end. It’s tough when both backcourt guys are such poor defenders.

Allow me to player explain something to you. Those advanced metrics especially for defense? Yeah. It makes nothing. When people say basketball is a team defense it is much more so on the defensive side of things. Unless you are on the court you don't know who is calling out what defense or what assignments at any time. Trae Young is routinely hid on the defensive side of things. No one has ever said he is a good defender. I will say that the last 10 games has been the best defense I've ever seen him play.

But when it comes to the Hawks team defense we have four or five good defenders. OO, Capela, Wright, Hunter and Collins. Huerter is average to above average. A healthy Bogi is average to above average. The problem is lack of close outs and fighting through screens. This is mostly on the wing defender especially the SG. Bogi was a dumpster fire on defense until he sat out with another injury and came back fully healthy. He is clearly a better player now than he was earlier in the season.

Trae isn't responsible for every bucket the Hawks give up. He isn't responsible for even a decent amount of buckets. The Hawks hide him so well that this advanced defensive metrics are just, frankly, comical because it doesn't take into account what the Hawks do as a team defense to hide him. Like this last game, people are acting like FVV was tearing Trae apart. He wasn't.

So with respect, I don't really care what advanced defensive metrics say because there's no way whoever is making those numbers up know what each defensive set or assignment was on every single possession on the court. My eye ball test tells me that Trae isn't a good defender (but he has improved over the last 10 games) and the Hawks should bring in a better defensive SG to limit his exposure. But he's simply not getting lit up every game like these stats try to portray him to be. Everyone can cherry pick highlight videos hell even Mt. Mutumbo had someone dunk on him from time to time. But watch the games, fully, and focus on Trae's defense. Then you'll see he's not giving up all these points. Why? Because he's usually not even the guy guarding the player who shot the ball. It is that elementary.

[MrBigShot]

He got lucky from three, that's all he did. His defense didn't stop a sneeze. What are you talking about? The Raps played the Hawks on the second of a back to back AGAIN. The Raps were at home the day before they had no travel meanwhile the Hawks played, ya know, the best team in the NBA the night before and had to travel and go through customs and play a game. Big difference.

Trae's defense is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be. Our main issue this year has been the wing defenders not Trae's man.

This shows a complete lack of understanding when it comes to defense.

Right. I'm only the son of a basketball coach and started at point guard in college basketball. Clearly I have a lack of understanding when it comes to defense.

I think Trae has become underrated on here at this point even in spite of his playoffs last year, but man this line reads like one of those "I'll have you know I'm..." copy pastas lmao.

Trae has his shortcomings, but there's very few players in the NBA that can contribute what he does offensively.

[Sothron]

This shows a complete lack of understanding when it comes to defense.

Right. I'm only the son of a basketball coach and started at point guard in college basketball. Clearly I have a lack of understanding when it comes to defense.

I think Trae has become underrated on here at this point even in spite of his playoffs last year, but man this line reads like one of those "I'll have you know I'm..." copy pastas lmao.

It isn't like I haven't said this before both on here and on Hawksquawk. I don't like the "you don't know a sport unless you played a sport higher than high school" cop out but when someone says I don't understand defense with my background....that's just comedy gold.