2021-22 General Thread
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I hope McNair stipulates what is going on behind the scenes with this clown ownership group in his interview tomorrow
IMO this ownership group is underwater with how covid hit their franchise sales, and their downtown projects haven't worked accordingly either
They cant afford several more years of this ticket sales, probably literally, which is why we are forgoing a rational rebuild
Still, if they can't afford the franchise the fans need to galvanize to make them sell
IMO this ownership group is underwater with how covid hit their franchise sales, and their downtown projects haven't worked accordingly either
They cant afford several more years of this ticket sales, probably literally, which is why we are forgoing a rational rebuild
Still, if they can't afford the franchise the fans need to galvanize to make them sell
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If there is a sale again, prospective owners may want to move the team, especially with markets like Seattle and Vegas available.
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wco81 wrote:If there is a sale again, prospective owners may want to move the team, especially with markets like Seattle and Vegas available.
I think there was a long contract signed in Sacramento when we built the new arena. Just checked and it looks like a 35 year agreement. I don't believe new owners could just come in and make that contract disappear, but I'm not really sure.
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BoogieTime wrote:I hope McNair stipulates what is going on behind the scenes with this clown ownership group in his interview tomorrow
IMO this ownership group is underwater with how covid hit their franchise sales, and their downtown projects haven't worked accordingly either
They cant afford several more years of this ticket sales, probably literally, which is why we are forgoing a rational rebuild
Still, if they can't afford the franchise the fans need to galvanize to make them sell
If they couldn't afford the team moving forward they would be telling Monte to sell off the higher contracts and get a rebuild going. They can easily sell it to the fans AND increase ticket sales at the same time. They know this, and yet they're still committed to adding talent to make the POs so I can't see this as the problem.
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wco81 wrote:If there is a sale again, prospective owners may want to move the team, especially with markets like Seattle and Vegas available.
Can we not equate 1 poster's opinion and then draw many a longbow to the Kings moving? It's ridiculous really.
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simonbampfield wrote:BoogieTime wrote:I hope McNair stipulates what is going on behind the scenes with this clown ownership group in his interview tomorrow
IMO this ownership group is underwater with how covid hit their franchise sales, and their downtown projects haven't worked accordingly either
They cant afford several more years of this ticket sales, probably literally, which is why we are forgoing a rational rebuild
Still, if they can't afford the franchise the fans need to galvanize to make them sell
If they couldn't afford the team moving forward they would be telling Monte to sell off the higher contracts and get a rebuild going. They can easily sell it to the fans AND increase ticket sales at the same time. They know this, and yet they're still committed to adding talent to make the POs so I can't see this as the problem.
The wiretap says that there is rising belief they will trade Barnes and/or Hield
It was rumored they kept Walton for financial reasons
I dont think fans will line up for a rebuild. Where does that happen? Come buy tickets we are going to lose to draft kids that will be better in three/four years?
But its true they kept a healthy payroll for this season. I'm thinking they actually thought this team would compete and not be bottom 5 in sales and weren't prepared for the lack of tickets this year
But I guess its all a guess
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BoogieTime wrote:simonbampfield wrote:BoogieTime wrote:I hope McNair stipulates what is going on behind the scenes with this clown ownership group in his interview tomorrow
IMO this ownership group is underwater with how covid hit their franchise sales, and their downtown projects haven't worked accordingly either
They cant afford several more years of this ticket sales, probably literally, which is why we are forgoing a rational rebuild
Still, if they can't afford the franchise the fans need to galvanize to make them sell
If they couldn't afford the team moving forward they would be telling Monte to sell off the higher contracts and get a rebuild going. They can easily sell it to the fans AND increase ticket sales at the same time. They know this, and yet they're still committed to adding talent to make the POs so I can't see this as the problem.
The wiretap says that there is rising belief they will trade Barnes and/or Hield
It was rumored they kept Walton for financial reasons
I dont think fans will line up for a rebuild. Where does that happen? Come buy tickets we are going to lose to draft kids that will be better in three/four years?
But its true they kept a healthy payroll for this season. I'm thinking they actually thought this team would compete and not be bottom 5 in sales and weren't prepared for the lack of tickets this year
But I guess its all a guess
I mean if there is one fan base where ownership can go out and say "we've made some mistakes in the past, we acknowledge that, we tried to give the people of Sacramento a play off team, as have the players and coaching staff of the Kings, a team you all thoroughly deserve. We have learned some lessons, there can be no short cuts, we now know our path forward. We're not going to take short cuts, there isn't an overnight solution and we're committed to Monte and his team providing the best path for the Kings. We hope the best fans in the NBA stick with us and support our players as we not only work towards building a winning team, but a team Sacramento can be proud of."
Or something of the like. Take your pick on how harsh or soft you want to make it. Sacramento people will 100% support a full rebuild. I don't believe the lack of ticket sales is solely due to the team, some is to do with the current situation as it is largely league wide.
On the salary stuff. I think the ownership group was sick of paying coaches out. There are only so many coaches you can payout in a row. So yeah, no doubt Walton was kept because they didn't want to pay him out and I don't blame them.
I still would have loved to be in the meeting during the off season where I'm sure Monte was pleading with them to do so and then he could hire a coach of his choice. Let's see what type of coach he is thinking about and it better not be Mike D (I wonder what his relationship with him was like in Houston).
Anyway, any time a franchise can't pay for a team (hello Maloofs) they start selling everything off. I haven't seen anything to suggest this and keeping players like Barnes, Buddy, Bagley and giving Fox a max goes against that. Even when you look at last season, Barnes was a highly sought after player at the deadline and did the ownership group say, we can get cap savings from him, 20m out you go for this season?
Now, what you mention about the bottom five in sales, absolutely can come into it, so I do agree somewhat that it isn't ideal, but I think every ownership group is going through the same thing. I just don't believe the NBA and owners weren't aware of what the challenges were of moving forward. It was blatantly obvious you couldn't go straight into 2021-22 and stadiums would all of a sudden be full.
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Any coincidence Bagley, after coming off the best three game stretch in awhile, goes out with shoulder soreness?
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Have been thinking of the coaching lately and noticed this is the third season Stacey Augmon, Lindsey Harding and Roy Rana have been on the staff, the former two with the titles player development.
Can anyone actually point to any improvement from our players in that time that they didn't do over the off seasons?
Sure there might be the odd move, but if you are part of player development I would think a large chunk of that should be towards getting young players good enough to be in the rotation. This needs to be a focus this off season, get people in that will make a difference.
I'm not sure how many of these are going to be the new coaches hires, but it would be better if Monte went out and got some of the best development coaches out there.
Can anyone actually point to any improvement from our players in that time that they didn't do over the off seasons?
Sure there might be the odd move, but if you are part of player development I would think a large chunk of that should be towards getting young players good enough to be in the rotation. This needs to be a focus this off season, get people in that will make a difference.
I'm not sure how many of these are going to be the new coaches hires, but it would be better if Monte went out and got some of the best development coaches out there.
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The primary and exceptional player development has been under Bobby Jackson in Stockton.
I see Doug and Bobby as the keys going forward.
Think about this for a minute. Who makes the best NBA head coaches. Former star players? No. It’s the guys like Kerr, Jackson, Tomjanovich, Pop, Sloan and the like. All these guys were guys who worked their asses off to be solid NBA players. They knew what it takes to have to do that and how to play as a teammate and get everyone to buy into a teams concept of how they are going to build around their stars and what the roles are that need to be played. They are great motivators and teachers of not only players but also their own assistants and being guys in whose strengths help balance their own weaknesses.
Thisnis why I see those two having been brought into the fold as the future of our coaching. They are a legacy to our very best teams and have that factor of not having been anointed with a star mantle and therefore have the right mix of humble and know how to get there and the work required. They also have the energy and investment that engages players to buy into their system.
I see Doug and Bobby as the keys going forward.
Think about this for a minute. Who makes the best NBA head coaches. Former star players? No. It’s the guys like Kerr, Jackson, Tomjanovich, Pop, Sloan and the like. All these guys were guys who worked their asses off to be solid NBA players. They knew what it takes to have to do that and how to play as a teammate and get everyone to buy into a teams concept of how they are going to build around their stars and what the roles are that need to be played. They are great motivators and teachers of not only players but also their own assistants and being guys in whose strengths help balance their own weaknesses.
Thisnis why I see those two having been brought into the fold as the future of our coaching. They are a legacy to our very best teams and have that factor of not having been anointed with a star mantle and therefore have the right mix of humble and know how to get there and the work required. They also have the energy and investment that engages players to buy into their system.
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As a niners and kings fan I was thinking tonight.
The kings team in 18-19 won 39 games. The rotation?
WCS/Koufos/Giles
Bjelica/Bagley
Shump/Jackson
Buddy/Bogi
Fox/Yogi
This team on paper is probably worse than the current roster. At least it's debatable if Hali is as good as the advanced stats say. But the key was that most of these guys were new to the team and hadn't really had a chance to give up on the team yet. They played with energy and had fun doing it. "The scores" were born.
I always looked at Joerger like I did Mike Singletary. Not really the best coach, but a strong leader. The 49ers went forward with Harbaugh and became a power house, the kings went forward with Walton and have only regressed.
Now we are at the point where all the guys here have given up even trying. What a sad sad ride these last 4 years have been.
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The kings team in 18-19 won 39 games. The rotation?
WCS/Koufos/Giles
Bjelica/Bagley
Shump/Jackson
Buddy/Bogi
Fox/Yogi
This team on paper is probably worse than the current roster. At least it's debatable if Hali is as good as the advanced stats say. But the key was that most of these guys were new to the team and hadn't really had a chance to give up on the team yet. They played with energy and had fun doing it. "The scores" were born.
I always looked at Joerger like I did Mike Singletary. Not really the best coach, but a strong leader. The 49ers went forward with Harbaugh and became a power house, the kings went forward with Walton and have only regressed.
Now we are at the point where all the guys here have given up even trying. What a sad sad ride these last 4 years have been.
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I think this is the most depressing kings season in my lifetime. Just an utter mess.
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Thing is, Kings may yet impact the playoffs by trading players like Barnes to some contenders.
Though they're only 4 games out of #10 so they're not completely out of it.
But the vultures are circling, with talk about other players like Bagley, Hield, Thompson, Holmes, even Haliburton.
I don't know get the rumors about Sabonis either. Seemed like Kings have a good situation at center so they'd trade for a guy on a huge contract who wasn't able to lead his team into the playoffs either?
Well Wizards are after Sabonis as well.
Though they're only 4 games out of #10 so they're not completely out of it.
But the vultures are circling, with talk about other players like Bagley, Hield, Thompson, Holmes, even Haliburton.
I don't know get the rumors about Sabonis either. Seemed like Kings have a good situation at center so they'd trade for a guy on a huge contract who wasn't able to lead his team into the playoffs either?
Well Wizards are after Sabonis as well.
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I wanted to bring discussion about Monte McNair into this thread as SNPA and I have been going back and forth on a T&T thread and I don't want to derail that any more.
Okay so the below was SNPA's last post there.
So odd to me that Kings fans would want McNair, assuming no major move this week, to pick the Coach. It’s cheering for Vivek to make the same fundamental mistake a fourth time in a row. Fourth. Freakin time. In a row. Unbelievable.
While I disagree with the line here, yes it's a good point IF the Kings don't see Monte around for the next 4 seasons (after this one). IF they don't see him around for the full first contract of his selected coach, I would agree, don't let him select it and move on, but you need to have a GM in mind and be ready to sell something to the fan base. And it cant be, we're going for the POs in 2022-23.
And what makes the new GM any different? If you're giving Monte 16 months, the next GM might not even make it through his hires first contract either.
What I will say to SNPA is, if you don't let McNair select the next coach, you're firing him straight after the deadline.
That would mean you have hired and fired a GM after 16 full months, closer to 17 counting all days.
That just doesn't sit well with me. And no I'm not suggesting they should keep him just to make the Kings look a little better in the short term.
I spoke in that thread about the two trades that fell through. Well you can add a trade for Joe Ingles too until his injury. From all reports that was going to be a decent trade for us with Bagley going the other way.
The positions below (and many more really) should be under the most pressure and IMO need a complete overhaul:
Chief Strategy Officer - Joe Dumars WTF
Advisor To The Chairman - Chris Mullins (I mean this is truly cringeworthy, it has always just looked like Vivek paying a former Warrior legend to be his friend.
These two will never be a part of a successful Sacramento Kings regime.
Player development staff - All of them. It's been non existent. When was the last time a 2nd round pick developed. Heck, when was the last time a 1st round pick developed outside of natural progression?
Scouting Staff - All of them - Do they do anything? - When was the last time a 2nd round pick turned into a good player?
All of these people have been here long enough to make a difference.
Okay so the below was SNPA's last post there.
So odd to me that Kings fans would want McNair, assuming no major move this week, to pick the Coach. It’s cheering for Vivek to make the same fundamental mistake a fourth time in a row. Fourth. Freakin time. In a row. Unbelievable.
While I disagree with the line here, yes it's a good point IF the Kings don't see Monte around for the next 4 seasons (after this one). IF they don't see him around for the full first contract of his selected coach, I would agree, don't let him select it and move on, but you need to have a GM in mind and be ready to sell something to the fan base. And it cant be, we're going for the POs in 2022-23.
And what makes the new GM any different? If you're giving Monte 16 months, the next GM might not even make it through his hires first contract either.
What I will say to SNPA is, if you don't let McNair select the next coach, you're firing him straight after the deadline.
That would mean you have hired and fired a GM after 16 full months, closer to 17 counting all days.
That just doesn't sit well with me. And no I'm not suggesting they should keep him just to make the Kings look a little better in the short term.
I spoke in that thread about the two trades that fell through. Well you can add a trade for Joe Ingles too until his injury. From all reports that was going to be a decent trade for us with Bagley going the other way.
The positions below (and many more really) should be under the most pressure and IMO need a complete overhaul:
Chief Strategy Officer - Joe Dumars WTF
Advisor To The Chairman - Chris Mullins (I mean this is truly cringeworthy, it has always just looked like Vivek paying a former Warrior legend to be his friend.
These two will never be a part of a successful Sacramento Kings regime.
Player development staff - All of them. It's been non existent. When was the last time a 2nd round pick developed. Heck, when was the last time a 1st round pick developed outside of natural progression?
Scouting Staff - All of them - Do they do anything? - When was the last time a 2nd round pick turned into a good player?
All of these people have been here long enough to make a difference.
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After the trade deadline, McNair should be told to start looking at HC options. At end of season you ask him who his top 3, likelyhood of them coming to sac and how he plans to build roster around that HC and you make a decision from that intel.
Need to start having some cohesion between FO and coaching staff. Picking Davion and only playing Fox, Hali and Davion together for 130 possessions this season after all the talk in preseason about the 3 guard lineup is very frustrating. Going to go a whole year losing and not know wether they can play together.
and I really wish they would give some real minutes to 2nd rounders just to see what they have next to real talent. Just pick one of them for a 5 game spell to play 15 a night.
Need to start having some cohesion between FO and coaching staff. Picking Davion and only playing Fox, Hali and Davion together for 130 possessions this season after all the talk in preseason about the 3 guard lineup is very frustrating. Going to go a whole year losing and not know wether they can play together.
and I really wish they would give some real minutes to 2nd rounders just to see what they have next to real talent. Just pick one of them for a 5 game spell to play 15 a night.
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simonbampfield wrote:I wanted to bring discussion about Monte McNair into this thread as SNPA and I have been going back and forth on a T&T thread and I don't want to derail that any more.
Okay so the below was SNPA's last post there.
So odd to me that Kings fans would want McNair, assuming no major move this week, to pick the Coach. It’s cheering for Vivek to make the same fundamental mistake a fourth time in a row. Fourth. Freakin time. In a row. Unbelievable.
While I disagree with the line here, yes it's a good point IF the Kings don't see Monte around for the next 4 seasons (after this one). IF they don't see him around for the full first contract of his selected coach, I would agree, don't let him select it and move on, but you need to have a GM in mind and be ready to sell something to the fan base. And it cant be, we're going for the POs in 2022-23.
And what makes the new GM any different? If you're giving Monte 16 months, the next GM might not even make it through his hires first contract either.
What I will say to SNPA is, if you don't let McNair select the next coach, you're firing him straight after the deadline.
That would mean you have hired and fired a GM after 16 full months, closer to 17 counting all days.
That just doesn't sit well with me. And no I'm not suggesting they should keep him just to make the Kings look a little better in the short term.
I spoke in that thread about the two trades that fell through. Well you can add a trade for Joe Ingles too until his injury. From all reports that was going to be a decent trade for us with Bagley going the other way.
The positions below (and many more really) should be under the most pressure and IMO need a complete overhaul:
Chief Strategy Officer - Joe Dumars WTF
Advisor To The Chairman - Chris Mullins (I mean this is truly cringeworthy, it has always just looked like Vivek paying a former Warrior legend to be his friend.
These two will never be a part of a successful Sacramento Kings regime.
Player development staff - All of them. It's been non existent. When was the last time a 2nd round pick developed. Heck, when was the last time a 1st round pick developed outside of natural progression?
Scouting Staff - All of them - Do they do anything? - When was the last time a 2nd round pick turned into a good player?
All of these people have been here long enough to make a difference.
There is an absolutely fascinating (and devastating to Vivek) article out about his constant arrogance, ego and interference in team operations without any actual knowledge or qualification to be doing so and how it has directly contributed to everything that has gone wrong here since he took over. I will try to find the link as I cannot remember if it was Cowbell Kingdom or one of the other ones.
It’s a real eye opener because it goes into a depth and detail of things we kind of knew about of suspected but it gets into hard details that quite obviously come from direct statements about the incredible damage and setback his tweeting the team like his personal fantasy team has done to the franchise.
If there is anyone that needs to either sit back and STFU and just sign checks or go it is him and Martina who is quite obviously the long time enabler and schemer.
I’m have trouble putting any blame on a GM who has looked to have had a lot of good stuff that makes sense lined up only to either get interfered with (Bucks deal), have a last minute dump out (Lakers deal) or just plain old bad luck (Ingles deal) make him appear to not be accomplishing anything.
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But it's not realistic that owners will just sign checks and shut up.
If they want to get hands on, they have the ultimate say, even if they have no business making calls on which players to draft and so on.
Ultimately he's going to be signing some big checks on free agents or high draft picks, so he's going to have to sign off on personnel moves, sooner or later.
If they want to get hands on, they have the ultimate say, even if they have no business making calls on which players to draft and so on.
Ultimately he's going to be signing some big checks on free agents or high draft picks, so he's going to have to sign off on personnel moves, sooner or later.
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OGSactownballer wrote:simonbampfield wrote:I wanted to bring discussion about Monte McNair into this thread as SNPA and I have been going back and forth on a T&T thread and I don't want to derail that any more.
Okay so the below was SNPA's last post there.
So odd to me that Kings fans would want McNair, assuming no major move this week, to pick the Coach. It’s cheering for Vivek to make the same fundamental mistake a fourth time in a row. Fourth. Freakin time. In a row. Unbelievable.
While I disagree with the line here, yes it's a good point IF the Kings don't see Monte around for the next 4 seasons (after this one). IF they don't see him around for the full first contract of his selected coach, I would agree, don't let him select it and move on, but you need to have a GM in mind and be ready to sell something to the fan base. And it cant be, we're going for the POs in 2022-23.
And what makes the new GM any different? If you're giving Monte 16 months, the next GM might not even make it through his hires first contract either.
What I will say to SNPA is, if you don't let McNair select the next coach, you're firing him straight after the deadline.
That would mean you have hired and fired a GM after 16 full months, closer to 17 counting all days.
That just doesn't sit well with me. And no I'm not suggesting they should keep him just to make the Kings look a little better in the short term.
I spoke in that thread about the two trades that fell through. Well you can add a trade for Joe Ingles too until his injury. From all reports that was going to be a decent trade for us with Bagley going the other way.
The positions below (and many more really) should be under the most pressure and IMO need a complete overhaul:
Chief Strategy Officer - Joe Dumars WTF
Advisor To The Chairman - Chris Mullins (I mean this is truly cringeworthy, it has always just looked like Vivek paying a former Warrior legend to be his friend.
These two will never be a part of a successful Sacramento Kings regime.
Player development staff - All of them. It's been non existent. When was the last time a 2nd round pick developed. Heck, when was the last time a 1st round pick developed outside of natural progression?
Scouting Staff - All of them - Do they do anything? - When was the last time a 2nd round pick turned into a good player?
All of these people have been here long enough to make a difference.
There is an absolutely fascinating (and devastating to Vivek) article out about his constant arrogance, ego and interference in team operations without any actual knowledge or qualification to be doing so and how it has directly contributed to everything that has gone wrong here since he took over. I will try to find the link as I cannot remember if it was Cowbell Kingdom or one of the other ones.
It’s a real eye opener because it goes into a depth and detail of things we kind of knew about of suspected but it gets into hard details that quite obviously come from direct statements about the incredible damage and setback his tweeting the team like his personal fantasy team has done to the franchise.
If there is anyone that needs to either sit back and STFU and just sign checks or go it is him and Martina who is quite obviously the long time enabler and schemer.
I’m have trouble putting any blame on a GM who has looked to have had a lot of good stuff that makes sense lined up only to either get interfered with (Bucks deal), have a last minute dump out (Lakers deal) or just plain old bad luck (Ingles deal) make him appear to not be accomplishing anything.
Thank you. It's important to look at the entirety of things as what's the point of just replacing people when the problem still exists.
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wco81 wrote:But it's not realistic that owners will just sign checks and shut up.
If they want to get hands on, they have the ultimate say, even if they have no business making calls on which players to draft and so on.
Ultimately he's going to be signing some big checks on free agents or high draft picks, so he's going to have to sign off on personnel moves, sooner or later.
Yeah I can agree with that first line.
What I will ask you is, all of these owners have multi billion dollar businesses. They would NEVER run these businesses like they do, in this case, the Sacramento Kings.
That is why the league has a thorough process for owners. I actually think now they should tighten this up and due to a lot more billionaires being out there, look for better owners.
I don't hate Vivek, but he is clearly a terrible owner. He had a stake in the Warriors and probably didn't have anything to do with the running of the team. Then you thought, I can do what they're doing. Thing is, he is good at business, he knows if he hires the worst people for his tech company, it will fail. Why would he do that here?
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Re: 2021-22 General Thread
simonbampfield wrote:wco81 wrote:But it's not realistic that owners will just sign checks and shut up.
If they want to get hands on, they have the ultimate say, even if they have no business making calls on which players to draft and so on.
Ultimately he's going to be signing some big checks on free agents or high draft picks, so he's going to have to sign off on personnel moves, sooner or later.
Yeah I can agree with that first line.
What I will ask you is, all of these owners have multi billion dollar businesses. They would NEVER run these businesses like they do, in this case, the Sacramento Kings.
That is why the league has a thorough process for owners. I actually think now they should tighten this up and due to a lot more billionaires being out there, look for better owners.
I don't hate Vivek, but he is clearly a terrible owner. He had a stake in the Warriors and probably didn't have anything to do with the running of the team. Then you thought, I can do what they're doing. Thing is, he is good at business, he knows if he hires the worst people for his tech company, it will fail. Why would he do that here?
The fact is though that while having a final say/sign off on a big deal for an impact free agent is a reasonable time to say yea or nay.
You need to search and read that article though. It was a SERIOUS eye opener for me - and I have thought for a while that Vivek’s meddling was causing a lot of the issues. I had no idea just how bad and deep it runs though.
This is essentially a hopeless situation if he doesn’t back off or sell the team to someone else. It’s fine far beyond some simple meddling or a little early ownership period stunt like the Stauskas draft or talking about four man defense and cherry pick. Or drafting Sim Bhullar just to draft an Indian player and try to get a hook into that market.
Those little things are minor compared to the heavy stuff involving badly controlling what the front office does.
I wouldn’t put it behind at this point him or his loyalists having blown up the Milwaukee trade by being the leak or interfering in other stuff negatively.