Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST)

[Mattya]

I think Smart’s ability to handle, drive and distribute would fit well, but I don’t know if you can have Smart and Beverley on the same team when we have seen what having shooters does for this team.

[minimus]

I am wondering who might be the second, third best available player in NBA behind Smart who can play Beverley role for us? Or who can backup Beverley?

Melton from MEM?
DiVincenzo from MIL in S&T during off-season?
Lu Dort from OKC in S&T during off-season?
Devion Mitchell from SAC?

I personally see only one similar player - Derrick White. His defense is not that flashy, but he is a high IQ defender.

[Klomp]

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

"I'm putting the odds at 85% that Gupta does something."

[Klomp]

I am wondering who might be the second, third best available player in NBA behind Smart who can play Beverley role for us? Or who can backup Beverley?

Melton from MEM?
DiVincenzo from MIL in S&T during off-season?
Lu Dort from OKC in S&T during off-season?
Devion Mitchell from SAC?

I personally see only one similar player - Derrick White. His defense is not that flashy, but he is a high IQ defender.

I think Memphis is a team to keep an eye on. Melton is a good name, plus they have a plethora of PFs on the roster who could use a bigger role. Not in a trade for Beverley likely but Beasley perhaps?

[Klomp]

FYI

The Celtics explored a possible deal that would’ve sent Josh Richardson and either Romeo Langford or Aaron Nesmith to the Timberwolves in exchange for Malik Beasley, according to Jared Weiss and Jon Krawczynski of The Athletic. Minnesota, right up against the tax and hoping to maintain roster flexibility for bigger deadline moves, wasn’t interested at the time, The Athletic’s duo says.

Marcus Smart‘s name has come up recently as a possible target for the Timberwolves, especially if they move Patrick Beverley in another deal, writes Jake Fischer of Bleacher Report. Weiss suggests the Celtics could probably move Smart for an expiring contract and a first-round pick right now if they wanted to, but adds that “there’s a lot more that goes into moving him beyond finding matching value.”

Read on Twitter

The fact that all these pieces have been mentioned makes me think there's a little bit of steam to this. Classic case of counter offers being made. I know this is only media reporting, but often times there can be nuggets of truth in what media hears from sources.

Timberwolves want Marcus Smart ("come up recently as a possible target"). Probably opened up the talks asking about a straight Beverley for Smart exchange. Boston declined because they don't want Beverley ("especially if they move Patrick Beverley in another deal"), and instead offered Josh Richardson and either Romeo Langford or Aaron Nesmith for Beasley, which Minnesota declined ("wasn’t interested at the time").

Also keep in mind Minnesota fans, Krawczynski's name is attached to this, which increases the odds of truthfulness.

I wasn't horribly far off according to Wolfson interview above. Just had the order in reverse.

[Neeva]

Would this be bad or good? Bertans and Kispert for Beasley and Okogie? I

[_AIJ_]

Would this be bad or good? Bertans and Kispert for Beasley and Okogie? I

Horribad

[shrink]

A couple things from Doogie’s interview that struck me:

- Among other teams, Gupta has talked to WAS

- Imagine trading Taurean Prince from the the first half of the season, for Taurean Prince of the last two weeks!

- he was told 2022 is not a great draft in the 15-18 area, so the pick may be available for trade

- Told MIN isn’t moving Jaden McDaniels unless they have a legit star coming back

- there are fans of Marcus Smart, Harrison Barnes and Eric Gordon in the front office

[winforlose]

This series of moves assumes no big deals, kinda rolling them all into one, but they can be done separately, except the NY deal needs to also have the Philly deal to work.

Minnesota out: JO, JMAC, Layman, Beasley, Bolmaro, 2 2nd round picks.
Minnesota in: Kemba Walker, Obi Toppin, Paul Reed, Josh Richardson, Romeo Langford, Payton Pritchard.

Knicks out: Walker and Toppin
Knicks in: JO, Bolmaro, Layman

Sixers out: Paul Reed
Sixers in: 2 2nd round picks

Boston out: Richardson, Langford, Pritchard
Boston in: Beasley, JMAC

Why for 76ers, they don’t use Reed, but he would a nice depth move and I see him as better than Knight. 2nds is a decent return for a guy you stash in the G.

Why for NY: Thibs drafted JO, they get a defensive minded Bolmaro, and they dump Kemba’s contract. Layman is expiring, they re-sign JO, and can grow Bolmaro.

Why for Boston: Pritchard is having a tough year and is falling out of the rotation. JMAC has come alive of late and could really help them push their way up to home court play in. They wanted Beasley for Richardson and two young guys, Langford and Pritchard qualify. Plus JMAC is only one year older than Pritchard so it is kind of a wash.

Why for us: Toppin and Reed give us great depth at the PF and C. Toppin can play alongside V8 and KAT or alongside MCD on the bench unit. If Prince maintains his excellent play he can move back to the 3 and not need to be outsized so often. The two bigs give us options. Richardson is hopefully more consistent than Beasley, and Langford will hopefully grow into the role. Again we add some depth and give ourselves options. Walker and Pritchard are both guys who can make a big impact on the game. Pritchard would be a project who wouldn’t see a ton of minutes unless Bev is unavailable, but his upside is higher than JMAC and his size helps. Kemba adds some desperately needed scoring and play making. If his defense sucks his minutes will be scaled back, but I am hopeful he will do better with us and our scheme.

The only downside to my moves is we create something of a log jam with young guys not getting minutes. When healthy our starting lineup probably stays the same. Our 2nd unit becomes Walker, Nowell, MCD, Prince, and either Reid or Reed. But what we add is extreme depth for the playoffs and the ability to move on from guys like Naz and Nowell and Prince if we need to next year. We also gain some nice trade chips for next offseason.

Bumping this in light of recent rumors. I still think all 3 moves are doable and the result is significant for both season and especially draft night trades.

[shangrila]

A couple things from Doogie’s interview that struck me:

- Among other teams, Gupta has talked to WAS

- Imagine trading Taurean Prince from the the first half of the season, for Taurean Prince of the last two weeks!

- he was told 2022 is not a great draft in the 15-18 area, so the pick may be available for trade

- Told MIN isn’t moving Jaden McDaniels unless they have a legit star coming back

- there are fans of Marcus Smart, Harrison Barnes and Eric Gordon in the front office

Some interesting things there.

1. I’m sure he’s talked to every team at this point, so Washington doesn’t surprise me. Especially if a guy like Harrell is available for cheap.

2. The draft comment seems weird, especially given how fluid everything is at this point. I mean, some mocks have Hardy in that range and while I get he’s stunk it up so far I think that’s a gamble you’ve got to take outside of the lottery.

3. I like those names down the bottom, though isn’t Gordon a little old for their 5 year plan?

[IceManBK1]

I'm leaning towards getting Harrison Barnes as our starting pf. Low usage and efficient. Good defender. Can play sf or pf. Won't occupy space in the paint for towns to do his thing. And still only 29 yrs old. Maybe Prince+Okogie+2nd rder for Barnes.

Dlo
Smart
Edwards
Barnes
Towns

That is a championship team in the making. Can't have too many players who need the ball in their hands to be effective. We already dlo, Edwards and towns who can give u 60, 70 pts a night. Get us a deeper bench and we can rival with the best team of the league.

[Nick K]

One last bit on Smart.

I can see the Timberwolves being interested in Smart. Gupta has said that he wants MIN to be longterm buyers, and as much as we all love Beverley, he is 33. I could see a trade if the price is reasonable, but BOS has less leverage with MIN than virtually any other team - they just extend Beverley and spend a little more money to be able to keep their 1st, and worry about the problem down the road.

But imagine if MIN acquires Smart 27, on his current deal ($14,339,285 $16,607,142 $18,583,713 $19,960,285 $21,336,856). Where does that leave Beverley? If you pay Smart this much, you’re eventually turning the starting role over to him, so you better not pay Bev like a starter to play back up minutes. He’s certainly played well enough to be a starter on some nba team.

I think what we are seeing is that MIN will offer Beverley an extension after the Trade Deadline, if it still makes sense for both parties.

I don't like the Smart deal just because he's a poor shooter and as you pointed out, 4 more years left on a 90 mil $ contract.

We need size so I'd do anything to move Layman and Okogie to free up some money and maybe even bring Greg Monroe back. I was impressed with him in limited action recently.

I'd move Beasley too if I could. We need one more scoring swing sg/sf.

[moss_is_1]

I'm leaning towards getting Harrison Barnes as our starting pf. Low usage and efficient. Good defender. Can play sf or pf. Won't occupy space in the paint for towns to do his thing. And still only 29 yrs old. Maybe Prince+Okogie+2nd rder for Barnes.

Dlo
Smart
Edwards
Barnes
Towns

That is a championship team in the making. Can't have too many players who need the ball in their hands to be effective. We already dlo, Edwards and towns who can give u 60, 70 pts a night. Get us a deeper bench and we can rival with the best team of the league.

I'd have been open to Barnes more a couple weeks ago as a super sub, but Prince has basically taken that role over for me right now. He and McDaniels play the 3 and the 4 along with Vando. I don't want to have Vando come off the bench.

[Klomp]

Interesting theory I believe in that Doogie interview: Is there any (significant) move you can make now that can't wait until the offseason? Most moves the team could make now will be available to them over the summer. Most of the roster's relative trade value is lower than what we thought it would be coming into the season. So why force a trade? Let the values come back to the surface, as we've seen with Prince recently for example.

[Godaddycurse]

Interesting theory I believe in that Doogie interview: Is there any (significant) move you can make now that can't wait until the offseason? Most moves the team could make now will be available to them over the summer. Most of the roster's relative trade value is lower than what we thought it would be coming into the season. So why force a trade? Let the values come back to the surface, as we've seen with Prince recently for example.

You won't have as much salary fillers in a trade. Beverley/Prince/Okogie/Layman would all expire and the only ballast you have is Beasley

[MN7725]

I still like Alec Burks more than any other of the reasonable wing/guards being mentioned, in particular Gordon

Burks
Noel
Arcidiacono (roster spot matching)

Okogie
Beasley
Reid

Wolves go from $875K from tax line to $650K from tax line

Burks catch/shoot last 4 seasons
21-22 44.9% (34% of his shot attempts were catch/shoot)
20-21 38.2% (30% of shot attempts)
19-20 37.7% (19% of shot attempts)
18-19 40.9% (22% of shot attempts)

Malik Beasley
35.6% (60% of shot attempts)
41.3% (40% of shot attempts)
40.5% (38% of shot attempts)
42.2% (46% of shot attempts)

Gordon
44% (30% of shots)
33% (39% of shots)
28% (46% of shots)
38% (48% of shots)

Burks in past four seasons has about 1000 3pt attempts at 39.5%, Malik is 39.1% on about 1400 attempts, and Burks has taken pretty significantly higher % of his attempts not in catch/shoot. Plus Burks can handle the ball, be a play maker, rebounds decently. Neither is much of a defender but Burks at least has some size, not much smaller than ANT.

Noel is legit defensive/paint presence and is as mobile as any 7fter. Pretty much a zero offensively, but is at least an above the rim/lob threat as a screener, which Wolves have never really had (KAT, Dieng, Reid, Gibson, Love, Pek, Big Al)

Burks
Nowell
JMD
Prince
Noel

I really like having the Burks/Nowell pairing as two combo guards who can score, run an offense. The team falls apart when Russell doesn't play, not because he's been so great but because the lack of creation/ball handling becomes overwhelming. Part of that early in season was JMAC struggling and Nowell not getting PT over guys like Okogie, but Burks can step into that role when needed while Beasley could not.

[IceManBK1]

I still like Alec Burks more than any other of the reasonable wing/guards being mentioned, in particular Gordon

Burks
Noel
Arcidiacono (roster spot matching)

Okogie
Beasley
Reid

Wolves go from $875K from tax line to $650K from tax line

Burks catch/shoot last 4 seasons
21-22 44.9% (34% of his shot attempts were catch/shoot)
20-21 38.2% (30% of shot attempts)
19-20 37.7% (19% of shot attempts)
18-19 40.9% (22% of shot attempts)

Malik Beasley
35.6% (60% of shot attempts)
41.3% (40% of shot attempts)
40.5% (38% of shot attempts)
42.2% (46% of shot attempts)

Gordon
44% (30% of shots)
33% (39% of shots)
28% (46% of shots)
38% (48% of shots)

Burks in past four seasons has about 1000 3pt attempts at 39.5%, Malik is 39.1% on about 1400 attempts, and Burks has taken pretty significantly higher % of his attempts not in catch/shoot. Plus Burks can handle the ball, be a play maker, rebounds decently. Neither is much of a defender but Burks at least has some size, not much smaller than ANT.

Noel is legit defensive/paint presence and is as mobile as any 7fter. Pretty much a zero offensively, but is at least an above the rim/lob threat as a screener, which Wolves have never really had (KAT, Dien, Reid, Gibson, Pek, Big Al)

Burks
Nowell
JMD
Prince
Noel

I really like having the Burks/Nowell pairing as two combo guards who can score, run an offense. The team falls apart when Russell doesn't play not because he's been so great but because the lack of creation/ball handling becomes overwhelming. Part of that early in season was JMAC struggling and Nowell not getting PT over guys like Okogie, but Burks can step into that role when needed while Beasley could not.

I'd settle for Randle, Burks and Noel for the likes of Prince, Beasley, and Okogie and Reid. Give them couple 2nds if we have to. Randle and Noel would solve our interior d and rebounding issue. Noel who provides the interior d ofcuz. Though I think Randle can be an avg defender.

[Klomp]

Interesting theory I believe in that Doogie interview: Is there any (significant) move you can make now that can't wait until the offseason? Most moves the team could make now will be available to them over the summer. Most of the roster's relative trade value is lower than what we thought it would be coming into the season. So why force a trade? Let the values come back to the surface, as we've seen with Prince recently for example.

You won't have as much salary fillers in a trade. Beverley/Prince/Okogie/Layman would all expire and the only ballast you have is Beasley

You don't necessarily need as much salary filler when the salary cap is $121 million and you have $106 million committed to 10 players.

[shrink]

Interesting theory I believe in that Doogie interview: Is there any (significant) move you can make now that can't wait until the offseason? Most moves the team could make now will be available to them over the summer. Most of the roster's relative trade value is lower than what we thought it would be coming into the season. So why force a trade? Let the values come back to the surface, as we've seen with Prince recently for example.

You won't have as much salary fillers in a trade. Beverley/Prince/Okogie/Layman would all expire and the only ballast you have is Beasley

Correct. And acquiring Bird rights now, since we will be acting as an over-the-cap team.

[Godaddycurse]

Interesting theory I believe in that Doogie interview: Is there any (significant) move you can make now that can't wait until the offseason? Most moves the team could make now will be available to them over the summer. Most of the roster's relative trade value is lower than what we thought it would be coming into the season. So why force a trade? Let the values come back to the surface, as we've seen with Prince recently for example.

You won't have as much salary fillers in a trade. Beverley/Prince/Okogie/Layman would all expire and the only ballast you have is Beasley

You don't necessarily need as much salary filler when the salary cap is $121 million and you have $106 million committed to 10 players.

so the remaining 4 spots take up 4 more million so you have 11M left and beverley's cap hold if you want him back puts you over the cap already.