Official 2021-2022 Utah Jazz Season Discussion Thread

[Inigo Montoya]

Donovan Mitchell, Rudy Gobert Relationship 'Passively Aggressively Awkward'
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/265668/Donovan-Mitchell-Rudy-Gobert-Relationship-Passively-Aggressively-Awkward

I'd take these Windhorst stories with a grain of salt. There aren't a lot of specifics in the stories. ESPN reporters like to stir the pot with gossip same as the Hollywood celebrity reporters, and in addition, NYC-based ESPN reporters like Windhorst are frequently trying to get stars to bail and come play for their long-struggling Knicks imo.

I think it's just small excerpts from the podcast to create some buzz, but I don't have the time or the interest to listen to the whole podcast.

[red4hf]

Little premature, but anyways, do the Jazz have bird-rights for Paschall? I think they do...... How much are people expecting him to command this off-season? And what does that do to the Jazz luxury tax issues?

[Crunch 99]

Random observation: I've seen Whiteside draw a lot of criticism around the web during the Jazz losing streak, with some people calling to trade him, but he has been pretty good off the bench most of the season imo. And as I mentioned before, I think substituting Whiteside in for Gobert when Gobert is playing may tend to help Whiteside focus on defense, as he tries to keep up Gobert's work. He's not a starter, as Spoelstra figured out a long time ago, because he tends to lose focus. But I like him backing up Gobert.

Here are Whiteside's impressive per 36min stats coming off the bench this season: 18 ppg on 11.1 fga with 15.7 rebs, 5.2 orebs, 3.3 blocks and +8.2 plus minus.

[Inigo Montoya]

Random observation: I've seen Whiteside draw a lot of criticism around the web during the Jazz losing streak, with some people calling to trade him, but he has been pretty good off the bench most of the season imo. And as I mentioned before, I think substituting Whiteside in for Gobert when Gobert is playing may tend to help Whiteside focus on defense, as he tries to keep up Gobert's work. He's not a starter, as Spoelstra figured out a long time ago, because he tends to lose focus. But I like him backing up Gobert.

Here are Whiteside's impressive per 36min stats coming off the bench this season: 18 ppg on 11.1 fga with 15.7 rebs, 5.2 orebs, 3.3 blocks and +8.2 plus minus.

The problem with signing Whiteside isn't that he isn't a good player. In a vaccum, he's a good signing. He supposedly gives you more of what Gobert gives you on defense--he's a "have Gobert on the floor for 48 minutes" kind of signing, even though in actuality we know his defensive impact isn't close to Gobert's, but that's beside the point. The problem is, however, that teams figured out how to neutralize Gobert in the playoffs and when that happens, you can't play Whiteside either, which makes him a wasted roster spot when it really matters.

[zero24gravity]

https://www.nba.com/jazz/jazz-sign-xavier-sneed-two-way-contract

Xavier Sneed signed on a 2 way deal.

[Crunch 99]

https://www.nba.com/jazz/jazz-sign-xavier-sneed-two-way-contract

Xavier Sneed signed on a 2 way deal.

Sneed's G League Stats and Splits
https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Xavier-Sneed/D-League/88771/2022

[Catchall]

Warriors have just lost 5 of their last 7 games, and their remaining schedule has some tough matchups. I'm starting to wonder if the Jazz can catch them in the standings. A 2nd-rd matchup with Memphis should be advantageous if the Jazz can get it.

[Inigo Montoya]

Warriors have just lost 5 of their last 7 games, and their remaining schedule has some tough matchups. I'm starting to wonder if the Jazz can catch them in the standings. A 2nd-rd matchup with Memphis should be advantageous if the Jazz can get it.

It's doable, but unlikely. We do have a stretch of easy games but the last 10 or so games are pretty tough imho. I think the Warriors will probably get a grip pretty soon and start winning again. A 5 game deficit is hard to close at this stage unless they really collapse.

[tugs]

Am I the only one thinking the depth and production the bigs have provided and Mitchell's consistent string of outstanding games have compensated for the Jazz's lack of guard and wing production?

JC and Mike have been inconsistent, Bogey has taken a bit of a step back, Forrest is no Ingles, and they still lack that wing presence

[Catchall]

Am I the only one thinking the depth and production the bigs have provided and Mitchell's consistent string of outstanding games have compensated for the Jazz's lack of guard and wing production?

JC and Mike have been inconsistent, Bogey has taken a bit of a step back, Forrest is no Ingles, and they still lack that wing presence

The Jazz are built to spread the floor and let their guards attack. They do guard-to-guard screening and let Mitchell and Clarkson either pull 3s or get downhill. The Jazz are a different team and much harder to beat when both Mitchell and Clarkson play well. Conley can attack somewhat too, but he picks his spots and plays off of Gobert.

It would be nice if the Jazz had a wing who could self-create. That's why I think it's worth giving NAW some real minutes to see if he can attack selectively. If he's the 4th or 5th option on the floor, it seems he should be able to get to the rim and either finish or dish the ball off. He's also someone who could get Gobert more involved, since he has the length to pass over the top. Otherwise, they're more or less satisfied with Royce and House taking catch-and-shoot 3s. Both are shooting 40%+.

The big disappointment this year has been Rudy Gay. It seems he can barely move his feet anymore. Otherwise, he would have been a nice counter to have with an in-between game. Think Marcus Morris with the Clippers. Paschall should probably keep taking those minutes. I'd love to see him look to score more often.

The Jazz have a BTB coming up with OKC and Dallas. I'm wondering if Mike will sit out against OKC, giving NAW a chance to play.

[TNJazz]

The Jazz have a BTB coming up with OKC and Dallas. I'm wondering if Mike will sit out against OKC, giving NAW a chance to play.

The continuing stretch of road games is critical to seeding and I believe will be the determining factor in where the Jazz end up. If they lock in, and there is a bit of a crash from GS, it is remotely possible to end up as the 2 seed. I do think they can overcome Memphis by regular seasons end.

I was hopeful that adding NAW would yield some opportunities for him to get into the rotation, even if just for a few minutes, but we haven't seen him at all, so it makes me wonder what the team doesn't see in him. Maybe the BTB will give him that chance with Conley possibly siting out. BUT, having MC rest on these BTB's is where some of the wort loses of the season have come...

[Catchall]

The Jazz have a BTB coming up with OKC and Dallas. I'm wondering if Mike will sit out against OKC, giving NAW a chance to play.

The continuing stretch of road games is critical to seeding and I believe will be the determining factor in where the Jazz end up. If they lock in, and there is a bit of a crash from GS, it is remotely possible to end up as the 2 seed. I do think they can overcome Memphis by regular seasons end.

I was hopeful that adding NAW would yield some opportunities for him to get into the rotation, even if just for a few minutes, but we haven't seen him at all, so it makes me wonder what the team doesn't see in him. Maybe the BTB will give him that chance with Conley possibly siting out. BUT, having MC rest on these BTB's is where some of the wort loses of the season have come...

I think what's happened is that Trent Forrest has earned Quin's trust over the past 12 months. Even though Trent can't shoot and he limits the Jazz offensively, he's a good defender and he knows the Jazz's system. Those are the minutes NAW would be playing as a starting point.

I'd like to see NAW get some rotation minutes because he's a guy who can step in and score 15 pts in a playoff game and make a difference. I'd also like to see what he looks like with better players around him. Spencer Dinwiddie had the same shooting percentages in Washington as as NAW has this year, but Dinwiddie's percentages are up significantly so far with Dallas.

[Crunch 99]

The problem with signing Whiteside isn't that he isn't a good player. In a vaccum, he's a good signing. He supposedly gives you more of what Gobert gives you on defense--he's a "have Gobert on the floor for 48 minutes" kind of signing, even though in actuality we know his defensive impact isn't close to Gobert's, but that's beside the point. The problem is, however, that teams figured out how to neutralize Gobert in the playoffs and when that happens, you can't play Whiteside either, which makes him a wasted roster spot when it really matters.

What about the old fashioned strategy of trying to punish small ball teams by feeding the ball to the big guys, particularly Whiteside, and let them try to shoot over the top or dunk? I think we are underutilizing Whiteside on offense. He's averaging near a career low on FGA/36 mins, but he is actually pretty talented on offense.

I still hope our small ball center Rudy Gay gets in a good rhythm before the playoffs, but he isn't looking very good at the moment.

[Inigo Montoya]

The problem with signing Whiteside isn't that he isn't a good player. In a vaccum, he's a good signing. He supposedly gives you more of what Gobert gives you on defense--he's a "have Gobert on the floor for 48 minutes" kind of signing, even though in actuality we know his defensive impact isn't close to Gobert's, but that's beside the point. The problem is, however, that teams figured out how to neutralize Gobert in the playoffs and when that happens, you can't play Whiteside either, which makes him a wasted roster spot when it really matters.

What about the old fashioned strategy of trying to punish small ball teams by feeding the ball to the big guys, particularly Whiteside, and let them try to shoot over the top or dunk? I think we are underutilizing Whiteside on offense. He's averaging near a career low on FGA/36 mins, but he is actually pretty talented on offense.

I still hope our small ball center Rudy Gay gets in a good rhythm before the playoffs, but he isn't looking very good at the moment.

Because our bigs aren't that talented offensively. Punishing teams with our size hasn't worked for the Jazz even when we had a good Favors along Gobert--it hasn't got the Jazz past the second round. It hasn't worked with Al Jefferson, Favors and Kanter, it hasn't worked with Favors and Kanter either, and maybe I'm forgetting some other players. Yes, Whiteside is more talented on offense than Gobert but he still can't be an offensive focal point, and he's worse defensively. I would have been all about trying what you're suggesting a few years ago, but since then we've tried that already and it hasn't worked. We can't keep doing the same thing and expect different results.

[zero24gravity]

Congrats to Q . 4th time he's had the honor. Too many Jazz fans are way too hard on one of the very best in the business.

https://www.nba.com/jazz/news/snyder-named-western-conference-coach-month#:~:text=Utah%20Jazz%20Head%20Coach%20Quin,during%20the%202021%2D22%20season.

[TNJazz]

This team talks about adversity, sometime as if no other team goes through it, but I don't think they look very closely in the mirror at their flaws. They lose games to poor teams at an astonishing rate. Over half of their losses this season have come from teams currently either in the playin, or in the lottery. Those losses are more than the Suns have total. Additional, I can think of at least 5, I am sure there are more, where they were up by at least 15, then lost or (once) won in overtime. Have they come back from 15-20 down once yet this year to win a game?

It is remarkable how many "Worst losses of the Season" this team has had this year.
Orlando - OK, fairly early, but still the worst teaming the east (up by 10 after 3, loss by 7)
Pacers - Maybe a stretch at this pain in the season - away game, never really in it, only won 1 quarter and that was by 1 point.
Pacers - at home. Loss by 12, "Worst loss of the season..."
Detroit - away, didn't come close to winning any quarter, worst record in the league at the tie - lost by 10 "Worst loss of the season..."
Lakers - no L. James, A. Davis,C. Anthony, D. Howard, bunch of scrubs to fill out roster, lost by 6 "Bad loss, not worst..."
Houston - Home - "We've got to figure this out" Laker game come more like a "Worst loss of the season" but no, they lose to worst team in league at home "Worst loss of the season..."
Timberwolves - away, lose by 20 at the time, not in play in... "Worst loss of the season..."
Lakers - up by 18 with 8 minutes to go - lose by 5 with complete meltdown "Worst loss of the season..."
Pelicans - 15th worst loss in franchise history - OK This has to be the winner right? "Worst loss of the season..."

Oh wait, we still have at least 7 more games against teams that are currently lottery bound. Only 2 teams have lost to the three worst teams in the league (Charlotte and the Jazz) but I think the Jazz have the distinction to be the only team to have lost to the Bottom 4.

No wonder no one is worried about facing them in the playoff, and are probably working to see if they can get that matchup.

Glass half full statement. At least these bad teams aren't in the layoffs, maybe the Jazz can win against the better teams?

[Catchall]

As I look through the Jazz's remaining schedule, I see the Jazz finishing with 53 or maybe 54 wins. That would mean finishing the season 13-6 or 14-5. They'll have to play well and not have any significant injuries to do it.

To catch Memphis, the Jazz would need the Grizzlies to finish no better than 9-7. It's possible, as their schedule has some tough games.

To catch Golden State, the Jazz would need the Warriors to finish no better than 10-8, preferably 9-9. Considering how badly they've been struggling, this isn't far fetched.

[Crunch 99]

After Monday's loss to the Mavs and the GS win last night, the remainder of the season is probably going to be more about trying to fend off Dallas and Denver for fourth place rather than catching Memphis or GS. GS has both Wiseman and Green coming back next week. Assuming Green comes back healthy and plays like he did earlier in the season, I expect GS will be good with their original Big Three back together. Memphis is legitimately a pretty good team now, better than the Memphis team we beat in the playoffs last season.

The Jazz are up 2-1 on the Mavs and have one more game with them. We held Doncic to an inefficient 23 points on 24 attempts in the Feb 25th game. Then he blew up on us in Monday's game. Maybe we can hold Doncic down better next game. But even if we only tie Dallas for overall record and go 2-2 on head to head matchups, the Jazz would likely own the next tie breaker.

Denver is looking to bring back Michael Porter Jr. and Jamaal Murray. I have no idea how smoothly the reintegration of those players will go, or how long it will take a player like Murray who has been out so long to get back up to speed.

The computer programs at 538.com and basketballreference.com are projecting the Jazz to finish ahead of the Mavs and Nuggets.

[D Rog]

My Rambling about the Jazz ...

I remember the first game I ever watched of the Jazz. I was in my early 20s. It was during the 1988 playoffs. The Jazz took the great Lakers to game 7 of the Western Conference Semi-Finals. There was a lot of excitement after that series and I became a Jazz fan. After that series, I couldn't wait for the next year to begin. For the next 15 years I rarely missed a game. I remember taking my 70+ year old grandmother to a game (I believe against Denver) for the greatest Jazz comeback of all time. As I recall, the Jazz were down 25+ points and came back to win. I used to listen to a young David Locke on the radio every day in the early 90s as he criticized the Jazz organization from time to time and regularly gave fans a dose of reality. Now he is one of their key salesmen. I understand why he backs the Jazz now, they sign his paycheck. I used to listen to an old Dave Blackwell (RIP) every day (One of the best sports radio hosts in the business).

I still look forward to the Jazz games in October and by January 1st I start to look at the trade deadline and potential moves. The last 15-20 years I started to miss the occasional game (still watching most) in January, February and March. I would just read stats or catch highlights. This year was the same until mid-January. I believe the last game I actually watched was the loss at Detroit. I usually start to watch every game again at the end of March or first of April to watch the playoff seeding. I am not sure I am all that interested this year. We have seen this version of the Jazz team for too many years and they are not going anywhere. They are irrelevant. Maybe I am just getting too old or I am just a cynic but a couple of years ago I stopped buying what the Jazz were selling.

The Jazz took a shot by adding Conley a few years ago. I give them credit for taking a shot. From the beginning I was critical of the deal for 4 reasons and Jazz Fans were split on Conley primarily for these reasons.
1) Conley's age as it related to the core of the Jazz at the time (Mitchell / Gobert)
2) The Jazz had to give up too much to get Conley (draft picks / players etc.)
3) Conley's injury history
4) Conley's size (because our back court was going to get worked by bigger guards)

That being said, I think Conley has been a good addition (mainly as a team leader and calming influence on DM) but as I stated above the Jazz aren't going anywhere. Again, I give the Jazz credit for taking a shot.

Last summer, after we had all acknowledged the lack of length and athleticism on the Jazz, they added a 35 year old Rudy Gay??? I understand the thinking but I disagree with the contract. 3 YEARS???? For a 35 year old??? Sorry, but I don't think Gay has panned out and I would prefer the Jazz play Paschall for his energy and toughness.

I agree with what TNJazz stated above about a lot of the bad losses the Jazz had this year. I remember a few of those losses. Most of all, I remember the early loss at Orlando. The Jazz were getting greedy. I assumed the Jazz would rest Conley against Miami to ensure a win against Orlando the next night. Instead, they played Conley at Miami (thinking they could get a win on the road against one of the best teams in the East). The Jazz lost that game and then played Orlando the next night (one of the worst teams in the league) and lost while Conley rested. This was piss poor management on Quin or the Jazz Front Office. The Jazz should have rested Conley and maybe all of the key players against Miami. I watched a couple other inexcusable losses and every team has bad losses every year but the Orlando game was on management.

I am sure the Jazz will make adjustments this summer and I will watch free agency and trades. I am sure I will start to watch again next October. I just advise young Jazz fans not to swallow what the Jazz sell you. Remember, they are a business selling you on a product for profit.

[AingesBurner]

I have been right about the Jazz since Hayward(should have been traded the summer before), Conley(gave up too much, should have kept Rubio), and trading Joe Ingles over the summer, our team has been hit with mediocrity on the basis of chemistry, money ball doesn’t work, anyone remember the end of the movie Moneyball!? At the end of the day talent matters most.