Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST)

[Slim Tubby]

One thing to keep in mind when we make fake trades is that it is very unlikely MIN will go into the tax this year.

For those that don’t know, the CBA rules are that the NBA Head Office collects all the luxury taxes, divides that number in half, and then gives every team that stayed below the lux an equal share. Normally that share can be about $2-3 million, but this year, with several teams far over the lux, that share is close to $10 million dollars!

Thanks for the info…I always wondered how that worked.


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[Folklore]

If the nets are tanking I'd go after Patty with Layman and JMac.

[Klomp]

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A few names to think about.....

DRB%
6. Christian Wood
15. Kyle Kuzma
(16. Jarred Vanderbilt)
25. Mason Plumlee
30. Chris Boucher
(32. Karl-Anthony Towns)
36. Trey Lyles
39. Myles Turner
71. Harrison Barnes
101. Dwight Powell
(105. Jaden McDaniels)
(108. Anthony Edwards)

[younggunsmn]

I look at it more from a chemistry standpoint.
We have a group of rotation players that have knowledge of and are bought in to our specific offensive and defensive systems,
and for the most part play well together. How much do you want to rock that boat for a slight upgrade?

I agree, and I’ve been giving this a lot of thought lately. Chris Finch has found a way to balance our five starters to be highly productive together, despite each having some significant flaws. It’s the balance and chemistry overlaps that makes these five go.

So my question would be .. how much better does a player need to be, to replace a current player on our starting line up? For instance, Harrison Barnes is a terrific player, and is more talented overall than Jared Vanderbilt. But if you replace Vando, does the overall group play as well? Does Vando? Would Barnes be willing to come off the bench, even if he closed games?

Same goes for Beverley. He is the other player I see posters kicking out of the starting line up when they make rotations after their fake trades. Personally, I think Beverley impacts not just the game, but the other starters, in a significant way. If we made a deal for Marcus Smart and still had Bev, do you push Pat to the bench?

I’m pretty happy with our starting line up. Those five have a Net Rtg of 29.1, which is tops for any group who’s played 200 or more minutes together. For reference, BOS is #2 at 25, and UTA is #3 at 17, so 29.1 is a huge number. Of course I’d like to see a talent boost before the deadline, but if we save our assets, I’m comfortable with that. Pick up a back up big with the size to bang, and maybe a vet third string PG for injuries, and let’s go.

Our defensive system in particular is built around protecting KAT and Russell and funneling the ball towards our better defenders.
Having guys like Vanderbilt and Beverley, and to a lesser extent even Prince, allows you to put Russell on a 4 or non scoring threat and minimize his weakness as an on-ball defender.

What happens when you take out the length and switchability of a vanderbilt or the on-balll tenacity and ability to navigate the screen game of Beverley? The part you plug in may look like an upgrade, but the whole may be worse.

Rosas tried the all-in for offense and it was an unmitigated disaster.

[andyhop]

I love Beverly, but he can be a leader as a sixth man yelling at people off the bench, while we get a better player in the starting lineup. Not to mention how much you risk by him being injury prone as well as a point guard. We still keep our top lineup and add another rooster that can hopefully give us another strong lineup combination.

I don’t know. I heard a podcast about our early success, which marveled at DLo’s +25 Net Rtg, but when they dug deeper on how he got the +25, DLo spent half his minutes with Beverley and he was +50, and half his minutes without him and was virtually 0.

But that was a couple months ago. Maybe DLo has changed. Maybe the team has changed. I just know the team feels .. more in control? .. when Beverley is out there. I think they had a game last week that was slipping away until they put Bev in for the final couple of minutes.

I’m not saying you’re wrong. I’m saying I’m a little nervous about doing anything to upset the delicate balance Finch has created. I want to keep savoring for a while.

I remember the stat you are referring to, but I think that was too early in the season to draw grand conclusions from it. We've had solid wins without him in the lineup this season (PHI, BRK, UTA).

DLo is +3 Net PPP without Beverley on the court , +19 with Beverley and +7 overall

[younggunsmn]

Some guys who we could add straight up for Okogie or Layman without going into the tax:

Mike Muscala
Justice WInslow
Alex Len
Gorgui Dieng
Boban Marjoanovic
Willie Cauley Stein

Winslow, Muscala, and Marjanovic are signed for 2 years, the rest are expiring.

Winslow could be a backup with the skillset to slide into the Vanderbilt role, might be a good fit for the low man scheme.
Portland might bite just to clear him off next years cap.
Any of the others would give us some depth as backup centers.
There's a logjam in Sacramento in particular with not enough minutes.

[_AIJ_]

I would trade Layman for Jalen Mcdaniels

[wolves_89]

Some guys who we could add straight up for Okogie or Layman without going into the tax:

Mike Muscala
Justice WInslow
Alex Len
Gorgui Dieng
Boban Marjoanovic
Willie Cauley Stein

Winslow, Muscala, and Marjanovic are signed for 2 years, the rest are expiring.

Winslow could be a backup with the skillset to slide into the Vanderbilt role, might be a good fit for the low man scheme.
Portland might bite just to clear him off next years cap.
Any of the others would give us some depth as backup centers.
There's a logjam in Sacramento in particular with not enough minutes.

I think there is a decent chance this is the way the Wolves trade deadline plays out, they move layman and 2nd(s) for a bench big. Other guys that fit the criteria (salary under $4M and can be acquired at little cost) include:

Willy Hernangomez
Trey Lyles
Mo Wagner
Greg Monroe
DeMarcus Cousins

[MN7725]

If the nets are tanking I'd go after Patty with Layman and JMac.

?

Nets don't have their own pick for 7 years

[moss_is_1]

If the nets are tanking I'd go after Patty with Layman and JMac.

?

Nets don't have their own pick for 7 years

Yeah I see no reason the Nets would tank when they could still be a title contender and all their players are in their prime...

[Nick K]

One thought....

Portland may be willing to unload Larry Nance. He's missed a month with knee inflamation which isn't ideal, but the price may be right if he's ready to come back soon.

I like Nance but he's always injured or sick or something.

[Nick K]

They are demanding a first from us, they are not going to give us a first. JMAC had a terrible season up till about a week ago. Pritchard had a terrible beginning and current stretch, but a very solid few weeks during his Covid replacement minutes. All in all they are probably a one for one swap, they won’t give us a first for JMAC.

Thanks for catching that! I had meant to signal that a FRP would be from us going to the Celtics. I agree we would owe a first in this trade, and I would be willing to give one up to make it happen

Smart is a possible move, but honestly I think the wrong one.

1. Bev is older and has the it factor to make younger players follow him. Smart is the same age as KAT and doesn’t have the same history or reputation, I just don’t see him leading.

2. Smart cannot shoot 3s well enough. This is not as a big an issue if MCD is starting for V8 but V8 is so damn good this year he simply must start. With that in mind we need the floor spacing of a shooter like Bev, Smart just doesn’t give that to you.

3. Smart is too expensive relative to our situation. We need to pay Dlo, KAT, eventually Ant, Nowell, Naz, MCD, V8, and potentially more (JO, Leo, ect…) If we are going to overpay it needs to be an impact player, and Smart feels more like a poor man’s Beverly than an impact player.

Couldn't agree more. Smart is a good defender but a poor shooter and makes way too much money. He has 4 more years at 20 mil per.

I kind of liked the Mo Bamba name that came up. PJ Washington? I'd like to find a young sg/sf that can shoot as well.

[Nick K]

I'm surprised shrink either forgot or just hasn't brought it up, but keep in mind that Minnesota has a $4,750,000 trade exception from the Rubio-Prince swap that could easily be used to add someone to the roster without giving anyone up. While I know that might not be likely due to the luxury tax, it is still possible. Take the list I posted a page back, only Bagley could not be acquired for free from that list.

I didn't know we had that. Why didn't we just keep Greg Monroe as he impressed me. Get him cheap too. Now Milwaukee picked him up!

[Nick K]

The Hornets are looking for a center and Naz seems like he would fit pretty well there. I'd call them up and make an offer for PJ Washington.

MIN out: Naz Reid, Jake Layman, 2nd
CHA out: PJ Washington

Then go and sign Greg Monroe for the rest of the season (or trade Okogie for a bench center).

I liked Monroe too. Milwaukee just signed him.

[winforlose]

I'm surprised shrink either forgot or just hasn't brought it up, but keep in mind that Minnesota has a $4,750,000 trade exception from the Rubio-Prince swap that could easily be used to add someone to the roster without giving anyone up. While I know that might not be likely due to the luxury tax, it is still possible. Take the list I posted a page back, only Bagley could not be acquired for free from that list.

I didn't know we had that. Why didn't we just keep Greg Monroe as he impressed me. Get him cheap too. Now Milwaukee picked him up!

3 reasons.

1. It is always good to have an open roster before the trade deadline. Whether we make a move or just grab someone off the buyout market the flexibility is important.

2. We were/are (I am not sure if something has changed,) right up against the tax line and Monroe would have pushed us over.

3. Monroe is talented and does a lot of thing well, but his lack of shooting and lateral quickness make him a tough fit with guys like V8 and JO. We probably figured we could do better.

Bonus: Two way rules have changed this year and unlike last year two way players are not allowed to play in the playoffs. This means if we want Knight available (he is our 3rd string center,) we must keep a roster spot available for him.

[shrink]

I'm surprised shrink either forgot or just hasn't brought it up, but keep in mind that Minnesota has a $4,750,000 trade exception from the Rubio-Prince swap that could easily be used to add someone to the roster without giving anyone up. While I know that might not be likely due to the luxury tax, it is still possible. Take the list I posted a page back, only Bagley could not be acquired for free from that list.

I’m glad you mentioned it, but because we’ll likely stay under the lux, it’s unlikely we’ll use the exception at the deadline.

However, we might use it at the draft. If we allow many of our players to expire, the TPE could be used to add talent by getting our payroll back up under the lux. The draft is on June 22nd, the TPE expires June 30th, and it’s “use-it-or-lose-it.”

[wolves_89]

The Hornets are looking for a center and Naz seems like he would fit pretty well there. I'd call them up and make an offer for PJ Washington.

MIN out: Naz Reid, Jake Layman, 2nd
CHA out: PJ Washington

Then go and sign Greg Monroe for the rest of the season (or trade Okogie for a bench center).

I liked Monroe too. Milwaukee just signed him.

I think the Bucks only signed him to a 10-day contract, so he likely will be available at the all-star break if the team is willing to give him a regular contract.

[winforlose]

The Hornets are looking for a center and Naz seems like he would fit pretty well there. I'd call them up and make an offer for PJ Washington.

MIN out: Naz Reid, Jake Layman, 2nd
CHA out: PJ Washington

Then go and sign Greg Monroe for the rest of the season (or trade Okogie for a bench center).

I liked Monroe too. Milwaukee just signed him.

I think the Bucks only signed him to a 10-day contract, so he likely will be available at the all-star break if the team is willing to give him a regular contract.

Assuming both are available and we still have the same roster would you take Moose over Millsap?

[Nick K]

Some guys who we could add straight up for Okogie or Layman without going into the tax:

Mike Muscala
Justice WInslow
Alex Len
Gorgui Dieng
Boban Marjoanovic
Willie Cauley Stein

Winslow, Muscala, and Marjanovic are signed for 2 years, the rest are expiring.

Winslow could be a backup with the skillset to slide into the Vanderbilt role, might be a good fit for the low man scheme.
Portland might bite just to clear him off next years cap.
Any of the others would give us some depth as backup centers.
There's a logjam in Sacramento in particular with not enough minutes.

Mike Muscala and Alex Len are two names I like.

[Mamba4Goat]

I feel like Monroe’s getting romanticized by Wolves fans. There will be better “break glass in case of emergency” big man options out there. Heck, I’d take Knight getting the Naz deal over Moose. Only problem is Moose’s would be prorated if it’s only for the rest of the season. Knight’s,if signed long term, wouldn’t be.