The Official Jalen Suggs Thread

[jonbob17]

In the 13 games since Suggs returned from injury 13/4.5/5.4 with 1.4 steals on 41.7% shooting and shooting 49.1% on 2's.

3pt shooting 23.2% is the obvious wart, but the rest of those numbers sound pretty good for a rookie guard.

[basketballRob]

The gap between Scottie's shooting (32) and Steph Curry's (38) is smaller than the gap from Suggs to Scottie

Curry would probably average 60% if he only took a couple 3 pointers per game when he was completely open and toe on the line. Suggs would average way more if he did that also.

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Your opinion doesn't change the statistical fact though...

Not all 3 pt shooters are equal. PJ Tucker isn't a better shooter than Curry, he patiently waits for corner threes. Harris does the same.

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[thelead]

Curry would probably average 60% if he only took a couple 3 pointers per game when he was completely open and toe on the line. Suggs would average way more if he did that also.

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Your opinion doesn't change the statistical fact though...

Not all 3 pt shooters are equal. PJ Tucker isn't a better shooter than Curry, he patiently waits for corner threes. Harris does the same.

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Right but percentages are percentages. PJ Tucker is a champion and has proven to be a trustworthy 3pt shooter and his percentages bear that out as a career 37% 3pt shooter.

[basketballRob]

Your opinion doesn't change the statistical fact though...

Not all 3 pt shooters are equal. PJ Tucker isn't a better shooter than Curry, he patiently waits for corner threes. Harris does the same.

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Right but percentages are percentages. PJ Tucker is a champion and has proven to be a trustworthy 3pt shooter and his percentages bear that out as a career 37% 3pt shooter.

PJ Tucker isn't going to be able to create a 3 from a longer distance when a play breaks down. That's why when evaluating college players, all players that shoot the same percentage are the same. Lavine and Curry can get a three off when they're double-teamed and off-balanced.

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[thelead]

Not all 3 pt shooters are equal. PJ Tucker isn't a better shooter than Curry, he patiently waits for corner threes. Harris does the same.

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Right but percentages are percentages. PJ Tucker is a champion and has proven to be a trustworthy 3pt shooter and his percentages bear that out as a career 37% 3pt shooter.

PJ Tucker isn't going to be able to create a 3 from a longer distance when the play breaks down.

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What does that have to do with Suggs? I just want Suggs to hit open 3's at a clip higher than 33%. 'Longer 3's' shouldn't even be in the conversation right now with a sub 25% shooter.

[basketballRob]

Right but percentages are percentages. PJ Tucker is a champion and has proven to be a trustworthy 3pt shooter and his percentages bear that out as a career 37% 3pt shooter.

PJ Tucker isn't going to be able to create a 3 from a longer distance when the play breaks down.

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What does that have to do with Suggs? I just want Suggs to hit open 3's at a clip higher than 33%. 'Longer 3's' shouldn't even be in the conversation right now with a sub 25% shooter.

It's going to take him longer to learn to be efficient than a center that doesn't have to create an open three.

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[thelead]

PJ Tucker isn't going to be able to create a 3 from a longer distance when the play breaks down.

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What does that have to do with Suggs? I just want Suggs to hit open 3's at a clip higher than 33%. 'Longer 3's' shouldn't even be in the conversation right now with a sub 25% shooter.

It's going to take him longer to learn to be efficient than a center that doesn't have to create an open three.

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That's fine but he's bricking open 3's that teammates create for him when he's off the ball too. The kid can't shoot right now. That is a fact based on the percentages. Again, I don't care much about him missing crossover 3's... in fact, he shouldn't even be taking those anyway with the way he's shooting it... but he has to be able to make open 3's and he's just not making them right now. We have a pretty large sample size at this point too. 5.4 3PA per game is a lot for a kid that isn't even making 25% of those shots. I would like to see him cut that down to ~3 per game while he learns how to shoot and focuses on his dribble/drive game that has started to look decent as of late.

[jonbob17]

What does that have to do with Suggs? I just want Suggs to hit open 3's at a clip higher than 33%. 'Longer 3's' shouldn't even be in the conversation right now with a sub 25% shooter.

It's going to take him longer to learn to be efficient than a center that doesn't have to create an open three.

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That's fine but he's bricking open 3's that teammates create for him when he's off the ball too. The kid can't shoot right now. That is a fact based on the percentages. Again, I don't care much about him missing crossover 3's... in fact, he shouldn't even be taking those anyway with the way he's shooting it... but he has to be able to make open 3's and he's just not making them right now. We have a pretty large sample size at this point too. 5.4 3PA per game is a lot for a kid that isn't even making 25% of those shots. I would like to see him cut that down to ~3 per game while he learns how to shoot and focuses on his dribble/drive game that has started to look decent as of late.

Don't we want our young guys working on their games, specifically their weaknesses? Isn't that sort of the whole point?
What would you prefer a strategy to win as many games possible, which a large part of is eliminating mistakes and bad shots.

I mean shooting is probably best improved in the offseason, but i mean who really cares how many threes Suggs misses this year, the misses help the mission. Hopefully when the shot catches up the willingness to take the shot, we will be in good shape.
I am not sure who we would even want his shots going to.

[thelead]

It's going to take him longer to learn to be efficient than a center that doesn't have to create an open three.

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That's fine but he's bricking open 3's that teammates create for him when he's off the ball too. The kid can't shoot right now. That is a fact based on the percentages. Again, I don't care much about him missing crossover 3's... in fact, he shouldn't even be taking those anyway with the way he's shooting it... but he has to be able to make open 3's and he's just not making them right now. We have a pretty large sample size at this point too. 5.4 3PA per game is a lot for a kid that isn't even making 25% of those shots. I would like to see him cut that down to ~3 per game while he learns how to shoot and focuses on his dribble/drive game that has started to look decent as of late.

Don't we want our young guys working on their games, specifically their weaknesses? Isn't that sort of the whole point?
What would you prefer a strategy to win as many games possible, which a large part of is eliminating mistakes and bad shots.

I mean shooting is probably best improved in the offseason, but i mean who really cares how many threes Suggs misses this year, the misses help the mission. Hopefully when the shot catches up the willingness to take the shot, we will be in good shape.
I am not sure who we would even want his shots going to.

Franz. I want to see if Franz can handle a larger role.

And again, I'm not saying that Suggs needs to completely stop shooting. I would like him to be more selective in his 3's. Some of his 3's are just terrible shots.

[zaymon]

That's fine but he's bricking open 3's that teammates create for him when he's off the ball too. The kid can't shoot right now. That is a fact based on the percentages. Again, I don't care much about him missing crossover 3's... in fact, he shouldn't even be taking those anyway with the way he's shooting it... but he has to be able to make open 3's and he's just not making them right now. We have a pretty large sample size at this point too. 5.4 3PA per game is a lot for a kid that isn't even making 25% of those shots. I would like to see him cut that down to ~3 per game while he learns how to shoot and focuses on his dribble/drive game that has started to look decent as of late.

Don't we want our young guys working on their games, specifically their weaknesses? Isn't that sort of the whole point?
What would you prefer a strategy to win as many games possible, which a large part of is eliminating mistakes and bad shots.

I mean shooting is probably best improved in the offseason, but i mean who really cares how many threes Suggs misses this year, the misses help the mission. Hopefully when the shot catches up the willingness to take the shot, we will be in good shape.
I am not sure who we would even want his shots going to.

Franz. I want to see if Franz can handle a larger role.

And again, I'm not saying that Suggs needs to completely stop shooting. I would like him to be more selective in his 3's. Some of his 3's are just terrible shots.

True, but did you notice when he takes some of them? Part of them is late shot clock with no good look (i will admit he takes some early ones too) Its hard to judge player like Suggs when we dont have any offensive system right now.

[ibraheim718]

Reason why there is no structure to offense is because Suggs and Cole don't provide one. Their main jobs as playmakers is to set offense. Instad, they are too busy calling own numbers all the time. Magic biggest chuckers are two guards. At average they take 28 shots a game.

It's seriously like you don't even watch the games. First of all for the first portion of the first quarter it's cole running the point and Suggs running to...... a wing where he waits for a dribble hand off.. almost like every possession... no PnR opps at the top of the key no nothing. Second of all when Suggs checks back in to give Cole his rest is when he runs the point from about the 2-3 minute mark in the 1st quarter until about the 8-9 minute mark in the 2nd quarter.. and during those minutes he makes a concerted effort to run the offense and get others involved whether it's hitting TRoss coming off of curls.. or finding a trailing Bamba or WCJ for 3's.. when he does "call his own" number they are drives attacking the basket. The offense looks crisper when Suggs is running the point and the ball moves because he doesn't pound it and move east-west like Cole does.. he's a north south attacker off the dribble.

Honestly.. I've been reading your posts and biting my tongue because I'm an outsider here but at some point some one is going to have call you out for your vague generalizations.

EDIT. And SMH at you trying to make it seem like 12 fga's for a guard in todays game is a chucker. lol

Things you are "adressing" are irrelevent. Your whole first paragraph is about your perception of what you see. There is thiny little detail in it that you slipped. Fact that there is objective chance that you watch games, but don't understand what you see.
Jalen Suggs has pick& roll frequency of 30% , Cole 39%. In other words, during span of a game Cole is in around 7 possessions a game where he is being pick&roll ballhandler, Suggs 5.2
Cole's percentile makes him league's average pick&roll player ( actually bit above average, sitting at 53%).
Jalen Suggs percentile makes him bottom of nba, sitting at 12.
Jalen Suggs is shooting horrendhus 26% FG from pick&roll and has 20% turnover rate.

The offense looks crisper when Suggs is running the point and the ball moves because he doesn't pound it and move east-west like Cole does.

In general your post makes it sound like Suggs is doing amazing job running offense when he has a chance. That's factual lie.
Orlando Magic offensive rating without Jalen Suggs is 107,2.
Orlando Magic offensive rating with Jalen Suggs is 103,1.

As i said, you may watch it, but your don't process well what you see.

Cole for all **** he does, still proves to improve offense when he does play. ( 104,8 off, 105,5 with him in it ).

And SMH at you trying to make it seem like 12 fga's for a guard in todays game is a chucker.

Bro, why are you doing this to yourself? He has 25% usage rate. For sake of argument, Chris Paul this year has 19,7% usage rate.
Suggs finishes every 4th possession when he is on the floor with either: shot, turnover or pass for shooter. And he hasn't been good ( evdiences proved above ).

In this video, that lasts around 40 sec,everything you said above is being proved wrong by literally using last game as example. It's first quater, allegedly time when Cole is "playmaker" and Suggs isn't involved in pick&roll, it's Suggs, not Cole, calling his numbers and just randomlly taking bad shots. In first 4 min of basketball game Suggs already had 3 shots taken, 0 assists and 1 turnover. Four minutes.

In today's nba there are only 11 nba players with this perimeters: usage rate over 20%, negative net rating, turnover rate over 10 and true shooting percentage worst than 50%. Among those 11 players, Suggs has worst TS% , second highest turnover rate, second worst net rating and third worst assist to turnover rate ( first and second aren't PGs).
There is objective fact that Suggs is one of the worst starting players on offense in nba. This isn't arguable. YOu can deflact fact and reality by throwing typical "he is rookie" comment. He is. that doesn't change fact he has been awful. Even by rookie standards.

Dude calls him a chucker which for as long as I remember has been used to label a player who takes too many shots. I provide his Field goal attempts which are shots and he responds with usage %.

[pepe1991]

It's seriously like you don't even watch the games. First of all for the first portion of the first quarter it's cole running the point and Suggs running to...... a wing where he waits for a dribble hand off.. almost like every possession... no PnR opps at the top of the key no nothing. Second of all when Suggs checks back in to give Cole his rest is when he runs the point from about the 2-3 minute mark in the 1st quarter until about the 8-9 minute mark in the 2nd quarter.. and during those minutes he makes a concerted effort to run the offense and get others involved whether it's hitting TRoss coming off of curls.. or finding a trailing Bamba or WCJ for 3's.. when he does "call his own" number they are drives attacking the basket. The offense looks crisper when Suggs is running the point and the ball moves because he doesn't pound it and move east-west like Cole does.. he's a north south attacker off the dribble.

Honestly.. I've been reading your posts and biting my tongue because I'm an outsider here but at some point some one is going to have call you out for your vague generalizations.

EDIT. And SMH at you trying to make it seem like 12 fga's for a guard in todays game is a chucker. lol

Things you are "adressing" are irrelevent. Your whole first paragraph is about your perception of what you see. There is thiny little detail in it that you slipped. Fact that there is objective chance that you watch games, but don't understand what you see.
Jalen Suggs has pick& roll frequency of 30% , Cole 39%. In other words, during span of a game Cole is in around 7 possessions a game where he is being pick&roll ballhandler, Suggs 5.2
Cole's percentile makes him league's average pick&roll player ( actually bit above average, sitting at 53%).
Jalen Suggs percentile makes him bottom of nba, sitting at 12.
Jalen Suggs is shooting horrendhus 26% FG from pick&roll and has 20% turnover rate.

The offense looks crisper when Suggs is running the point and the ball moves because he doesn't pound it and move east-west like Cole does.

In general your post makes it sound like Suggs is doing amazing job running offense when he has a chance. That's factual lie.
Orlando Magic offensive rating without Jalen Suggs is 107,2.
Orlando Magic offensive rating with Jalen Suggs is 103,1.

As i said, you may watch it, but your don't process well what you see.

Cole for all **** he does, still proves to improve offense when he does play. ( 104,8 off, 105,5 with him in it ).

And SMH at you trying to make it seem like 12 fga's for a guard in todays game is a chucker.

Bro, why are you doing this to yourself? He has 25% usage rate. For sake of argument, Chris Paul this year has 19,7% usage rate.
Suggs finishes every 4th possession when he is on the floor with either: shot, turnover or pass for shooter. And he hasn't been good ( evdiences proved above ).

In this video, that lasts around 40 sec,everything you said above is being proved wrong by literally using last game as example. It's first quater, allegedly time when Cole is "playmaker" and Suggs isn't involved in pick&roll, it's Suggs, not Cole, calling his numbers and just randomlly taking bad shots. In first 4 min of basketball game Suggs already had 3 shots taken, 0 assists and 1 turnover. Four minutes.

In today's nba there are only 11 nba players with this perimeters: usage rate over 20%, negative net rating, turnover rate over 10 and true shooting percentage worst than 50%. Among those 11 players, Suggs has worst TS% , second highest turnover rate, second worst net rating and third worst assist to turnover rate ( first and second aren't PGs).
There is objective fact that Suggs is one of the worst starting players on offense in nba. This isn't arguable. YOu can deflact fact and reality by throwing typical "he is rookie" comment. He is. that doesn't change fact he has been awful. Even by rookie standards.

Dude calls him a chucker which for as long as I remember has been used to label a player who takes too many shots. I provide his Field goal attempts which are shots and he responds with usage %.

You realize Suggs only takes 3 shots less than Cole Anthony who is being called chucker all the time, right?
His usage matters more than shots taken, because usage takes in account all the empty possessions Magic get from him being turnover machine that only nabs them 4 assists

[basketballRob]

Cole is in the mold of a couple of other players we had recently. He doesn't play defense well and wants to dominate the ball on offense.

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[ibraheim718]

Things you are "adressing" are irrelevent. Your whole first paragraph is about your perception of what you see. There is thiny little detail in it that you slipped. Fact that there is objective chance that you watch games, but don't understand what you see.
Jalen Suggs has pick& roll frequency of 30% , Cole 39%. In other words, during span of a game Cole is in around 7 possessions a game where he is being pick&roll ballhandler, Suggs 5.2
Cole's percentile makes him league's average pick&roll player ( actually bit above average, sitting at 53%).
Jalen Suggs percentile makes him bottom of nba, sitting at 12.
Jalen Suggs is shooting horrendhus 26% FG from pick&roll and has 20% turnover rate.


In general your post makes it sound like Suggs is doing amazing job running offense when he has a chance. That's factual lie.
Orlando Magic offensive rating without Jalen Suggs is 107,2.
Orlando Magic offensive rating with Jalen Suggs is 103,1.

As i said, you may watch it, but your don't process well what you see.

Cole for all **** he does, still proves to improve offense when he does play. ( 104,8 off, 105,5 with him in it ).



Bro, why are you doing this to yourself? He has 25% usage rate. For sake of argument, Chris Paul this year has 19,7% usage rate.
Suggs finishes every 4th possession when he is on the floor with either: shot, turnover or pass for shooter. And he hasn't been good ( evdiences proved above ).

In this video, that lasts around 40 sec,everything you said above is being proved wrong by literally using last game as example. It's first quater, allegedly time when Cole is "playmaker" and Suggs isn't involved in pick&roll, it's Suggs, not Cole, calling his numbers and just randomlly taking bad shots. In first 4 min of basketball game Suggs already had 3 shots taken, 0 assists and 1 turnover. Four minutes.

In today's nba there are only 11 nba players with this perimeters: usage rate over 20%, negative net rating, turnover rate over 10 and true shooting percentage worst than 50%. Among those 11 players, Suggs has worst TS% , second highest turnover rate, second worst net rating and third worst assist to turnover rate ( first and second aren't PGs).
There is objective fact that Suggs is one of the worst starting players on offense in nba. This isn't arguable. YOu can deflact fact and reality by throwing typical "he is rookie" comment. He is. that doesn't change fact he has been awful. Even by rookie standards.

Dude calls him a chucker which for as long as I remember has been used to label a player who takes too many shots. I provide his Field goal attempts which are shots and he responds with usage %.

You realize Suggs only takes 3 shots less than Cole Anthony who is being called chucker all the time, right?
His usage matters more than shots taken, because usage takes in account all the empty possessions Magic get from him being turnover machine that only nabs them 4 assists

Friend you are the poster child for using statistics poorly. You can't use them in this way with a rookie. You have other people showing you the improvement in his stats post-injury versus pre-injury but you ignore it and keep rambling on about his statistics from the entire year.., do you think that's fair to him or any rookie? This is why I trust what my eyes are seeing (my perception) more than stats with players this young. Are the stats going to show you how much he's cleaned up his handle in traffic? No... they're not but it's happened.

Further.. I'm much more inclined to be okay with a player shooting when he gets after it on defense.. where's the stat for that?

Bottom line it's too easy to kill rookies citing stats the way you do. At least wait until year 2 and even then it's still way too early.

[tooler]

Dude calls him a chucker which for as long as I remember has been used to label a player who takes too many shots. I provide his Field goal attempts which are shots and he responds with usage %.

Busting out pepe's signature lol emoji?

I'm closing my bunker door. Every man for themselves!

[pepe1991]

Dude calls him a chucker which for as long as I remember has been used to label a player who takes too many shots. I provide his Field goal attempts which are shots and he responds with usage %.

You realize Suggs only takes 3 shots less than Cole Anthony who is being called chucker all the time, right?
His usage matters more than shots taken, because usage takes in account all the empty possessions Magic get from him being turnover machine that only nabs them 4 assists

Friend you are the poster child for using statistics poorly. You can't use them in this way with a rookie. You have other people showing you the improvement in his stats post-injury versus pre-injury but you ignore it and keep rambling on about his statistics from the entire year.., do you think that's fair to him or any rookie? This is why I trust what my eyes are seeing (my perception) more than stats with players this young. Are the stats going to show you how much he's cleaned up his handle in traffic? No... they're not but it's happened.

Further.. I'm much more inclined to be okay with a player shooting when he gets after it on defense.. where's the stat for that?

Bottom line it's too easy to kill rookies citing stats the way you do. At least wait until year 2 and even then it's still way too early.

"Friend" you are poster child for person who thinks he knows stuff by just looking at them without context.
Using stats on rookies is fair assesment. But i didn't even do that , most often, judging Suggs, i only looked at rookie data, and still Suggs comes as one of worst offensive rookies selected in first round or/and lottery in very long time. Matter of fact only 5 NBA rookies since 2012 had +20% usage rate, played at least 15 min a game , had negative net rating and shot below 48% TS.
Those guys are Mudiay, MCW, Jennings, Suggs and Kemba. Among them, 3 out of 4 previous cases kept being garbage for rest of their careers.

Further.. I'm much more inclined to be okay with a player shooting when he gets after it on defense.. where's the stat for that?

So your favorite player is Marcus Smart? Just because player is not net negative on defense that does not excuse him being brick machine on offense.
Why i have feeling you were burning hard on this Frank Ntikilina shield in past and yelling "just a rookie "during his whole time with NYN?

Again, Suggs is rookie. For some people that means he has status of God and can't be talked with any objective critic,
For some of us those "gods among men" are nothing but young players, and last time i checked, young doesn't equal infinent potential nor future star, just somebody who has more time to prove himself to be good. More often than not, that does not happen. Guys like your i assume in past beloved Frank Ntkilina, Denis Smith , Culver, RJ Hampton,Kevin Knox, Romeo Langford and many others prove that.
Can i ask you something ? How many posts you had during past years that Knox just needs more time to prove he is star?


Oops i guess i did it and found out execlly what i thought. You were on record that Jayson Tatum is bust, Porzingis should have been traded for Josh Jackson on draft night and Frank was great pick . Also Knicks fans view you as cloest Magic fan.
And you have history of famming over Suggs.
Also you went on a trackrecord saying you don't root for team but selective players. Witch is awkward to say a least, if you are older than 12.

[LDNMagic90]

Never a dull moment on this forum I'll tell ya

Anyway, I didn't get to watch last nights game West Coast trips for me are pretty much no for me because they come on around 3am my time. Which sucks when you have to start work at 7am this week .

I hope Suggs' fine and the injury is nothing too serious.

[drsd]

Three straight games Suggs has gotten to the FT line. Progress?

[Skybox]

Oops i guess i did it and found out execlly what i thought. You were on record that Jayson Tatum is bust, Porzingis should have been traded for Josh Jackson on draft night and Frank was great pick . Also Knicks fans view you as cloest Magic fan.
And you have history of famming over Suggs.
Also you went on a trackrecord saying you don't root for team but selective players. Witch is awkward to say a least, if you are older than 12.

Ouch!! Pepe drops the mic on that one

[ibraheim718]

You realize Suggs only takes 3 shots less than Cole Anthony who is being called chucker all the time, right?
His usage matters more than shots taken, because usage takes in account all the empty possessions Magic get from him being turnover machine that only nabs them 4 assists

Friend you are the poster child for using statistics poorly. You can't use them in this way with a rookie. You have other people showing you the improvement in his stats post-injury versus pre-injury but you ignore it and keep rambling on about his statistics from the entire year.., do you think that's fair to him or any rookie? This is why I trust what my eyes are seeing (my perception) more than stats with players this young. Are the stats going to show you how much he's cleaned up his handle in traffic? No... they're not but it's happened.

Further.. I'm much more inclined to be okay with a player shooting when he gets after it on defense.. where's the stat for that?

Bottom line it's too easy to kill rookies citing stats the way you do. At least wait until year 2 and even then it's still way too early.

"Friend" you are poster child for person who thinks he knows stuff by just looking at them without context.
Using stats on rookies is fair assesment. But i didn't even do that , most often, judging Suggs, i only looked at rookie data, and still Suggs comes as one of worst offensive rookies selected in first round or/and lottery in very long time. Matter of fact only 5 NBA rookies since 2012 had +20% usage rate, played at least 15 min a game , had negative net rating and shot below 48% TS.
Those guys are Mudiay, MCW, Jennings, Suggs and Kemba. Among them, 3 out of 4 previous cases kept being garbage for rest of their careers.

Further.. I'm much more inclined to be okay with a player shooting when he gets after it on defense.. where's the stat for that?

So your favorite player is Marcus Smart? Just because player is not net negative on defense that does not excuse him being brick machine on offense.
Why i have feeling you were burning hard on this Frank Ntikilina shield in past and yelling "just a rookie "during his whole time with NYN?

Again, Suggs is rookie. For some people that means he has status of God and can't be talked with any objective critic,
For some of us those "gods among men" are nothing but young players, and last time i checked, young doesn't equal infinent potential nor future star, just somebody who has more time to prove himself to be good. More often than not, that does not happen. Guys like your i assume in past beloved Frank Ntkilina, Denis Smith , Culver, RJ Hampton,Kevin Knox, Romeo Langford and many others prove that.
Can i ask you something ? How many posts you had during past years that Knox just needs more time to prove he is star?


Oops i guess i did it and found out execlly what i thought. You were on record that Jayson Tatum is bust, Porzingis should have been traded for Josh Jackson on draft night and Frank was great pick . Also Knicks fans view you as cloest Magic fan.
And you have history of famming over Suggs.
Also you went on a trackrecord saying you don't root for team but selective players. Witch is awkward to say a least, if you are older than 12.

Uh no.. I was on record saying Tatum was a chucker.

Why get personal and not just stick to the subject? You're going way off topic.