The case against smallball.
Moderators: KingDavid, heat4life, MettaWorldPanda, Wiltside, IggieCC, BFRESH44, QUIZ
The case against smallball.
-
- Lead Assistant
- Posts: 4,513
- And1: 4,545
- Joined: Sep 27, 2021
The case against smallball.
The bubble was another instance of the Heat running out of gas due to being too small and no one wants to listen or learn from failure.
Bam? Injured. Why? Overuse.
Nazi boy? Injured. Why? Cuz he was a stiff.
Dragic? Injured. Why? Overuse.
You have a legit 7 footer that was thriving and can hit 3s and youre going to go smaller... why?
The definition of insanity is repeating the same process without changes and expecting a different result.
The bubble was a failure and we got owned by the Lakers despite a Wade-like performance by Butler.
This despite extra rest due to the season being postponed.
Bam? Injured. Why? Overuse.
Nazi boy? Injured. Why? Cuz he was a stiff.
Dragic? Injured. Why? Overuse.
You have a legit 7 footer that was thriving and can hit 3s and youre going to go smaller... why?
The definition of insanity is repeating the same process without changes and expecting a different result.
The bubble was a failure and we got owned by the Lakers despite a Wade-like performance by Butler.
This despite extra rest due to the season being postponed.
Re: The case against smallball.
-
- Lead Assistant
- Posts: 4,513
- And1: 4,545
- Joined: Sep 27, 2021
Re: The case against smallball.
The Heat ran out of gas in the bubble finals and got injured and when you're injured it's usually due to a breakdown in the body due to the trauma of repeated stress, many times multiplied by the stress of actual external traumas.
Heat players broke down vs the lakers did they not?
Exactly.
Sprint all you want, you're eventually going to lose the distance game.
Heat players broke down vs the lakers did they not?
Exactly.
Sprint all you want, you're eventually going to lose the distance game.
Re: The case against smallball.
-
- Lead Assistant
- Posts: 4,513
- And1: 4,545
- Joined: Sep 27, 2021
Re: The case against smallball.
-
- Lead Assistant
- Posts: 4,513
- And1: 4,545
- Joined: Sep 27, 2021
Re: The case against smallball.
The Heat are ready for Yurt now.
Yurt/Dedmon
Bam/Tucker
Jimmy/Caleb
Herro/Drob/Strus/Guy
Lowry/Gabe
A recap:
1. Heat lose against big teams
2. Heat continue to have injury issues
3. The history of champion teams overwhelmingly have size
4. Science backs up the fact that more effort equals more fatigue
Integrating Yurt slows the team down but gives you added dimension against bigger teams like the Cavs, healthy Bucks, Suns, Nuggets, etc
You can also utilize the height and start Herro instead of Tucker and have Tucker as 6 man and conserve his efforts for the big moments. Herro and DRob give you little defensive stoppage but you have Bam, Butler and Yurt to cover for em. Having Yurt gives you a 7 footer to intimidate
Spo favors speed and shooting and Bam as center speeds em up. The problem is height and fatigue, you just can't neglect height.
Yurt/Dedmon
Bam/Tucker
Jimmy/Caleb
Herro/Drob/Strus/Guy
Lowry/Gabe
A recap:
1. Heat lose against big teams
2. Heat continue to have injury issues
3. The history of champion teams overwhelmingly have size
4. Science backs up the fact that more effort equals more fatigue
Integrating Yurt slows the team down but gives you added dimension against bigger teams like the Cavs, healthy Bucks, Suns, Nuggets, etc
You can also utilize the height and start Herro instead of Tucker and have Tucker as 6 man and conserve his efforts for the big moments. Herro and DRob give you little defensive stoppage but you have Bam, Butler and Yurt to cover for em. Having Yurt gives you a 7 footer to intimidate
Spo favors speed and shooting and Bam as center speeds em up. The problem is height and fatigue, you just can't neglect height.
Re: The case against smallball.
-
- Lead Assistant
- Posts: 4,513
- And1: 4,545
- Joined: Sep 27, 2021
Re: The case against smallball.
Bam brings little shotblocking to the team in his current role. Miami could improve greatly by letting Bam and Yurt coexist.
Yurt is a legit 7 footer and should be used just like how Giannis can coexist with Brooke Lopez
Yurt is a legit 7 footer and should be used just like how Giannis can coexist with Brooke Lopez
Re: The case against smallball.
- Wiltside
- Forum Mod - Heat
- Posts: 24,095
- And1: 77,844
- Joined: Sep 16, 2016
Re: The case against smallball.
Damn harlem, you went with 5 consecutive posts on this huh
The flip side is we took the full strength Lakers to 6 games despite not having Bam or Goran for majority of the series. Was it wear and tear or freak accidents? We'll never know.
You also have to understand that Yurt is a rookie on a team with championship aspirations. He isn't going to play infront of Tucker, for example. You can make the case for him over Dedmon, particularly in the regular season, but Dedmon does his job in limited minutes too.
Spo always takes a while to come around. If Yurt is here past the deadline, I'm sure he's considering ways he can get him reps during the regular season. But he won't be a feature in the postseason unless injuries strike.
The real test will be next year. We can preserve Tucker a little by bringing him off the bench, or play him more as a nominal starter for 15-20 minutes a night and let Yurt get 20 a night too or something along those lines. We'll see how it plays out.
The flip side is we took the full strength Lakers to 6 games despite not having Bam or Goran for majority of the series. Was it wear and tear or freak accidents? We'll never know.
You also have to understand that Yurt is a rookie on a team with championship aspirations. He isn't going to play infront of Tucker, for example. You can make the case for him over Dedmon, particularly in the regular season, but Dedmon does his job in limited minutes too.
Spo always takes a while to come around. If Yurt is here past the deadline, I'm sure he's considering ways he can get him reps during the regular season. But he won't be a feature in the postseason unless injuries strike.
The real test will be next year. We can preserve Tucker a little by bringing him off the bench, or play him more as a nominal starter for 15-20 minutes a night and let Yurt get 20 a night too or something along those lines. We'll see how it plays out.
Formerly BG44, MB30 and Wade County at BasketballForum.com
Re: The case against smallball.
-
- Lead Assistant
- Posts: 4,513
- And1: 4,545
- Joined: Sep 27, 2021
Re: The case against smallball.
Wiltside wrote:Damn harlem, you went with 5 consecutive posts on this huh
The flip side is we took the full strength Lakers to 6 games despite not having Bam or Goran for majority of the series. Was it wear and tear or freak accidents? We'll never know.
You also have to understand that Yurt is a rookie on a team with championship aspirations. He isn't going to play infront of Tucker, for example. You can make the case for him over Dedmon, particularly in the regular season, but Dedmon does his job in limited minutes too.
Spo always takes a while to come around. If Yurt is here past the deadline, I'm sure he's considering ways he can get him reps during the regular season. But he won't be a feature in the postseason unless injuries strike.
The real test will be next year. We can preserve Tucker a little by bringing him off the bench, or play him more as a nominal starter for 15-20 minutes a night and let Yurt get 20 a night too or something along those lines. We'll see how it plays out.
Im not trying to wait. Im trying to win today. The window of opportunity can close in an instance.
Re: The case against smallball.
- DayofMourning
- Retired Mod
- Posts: 37,307
- And1: 91,645
- Joined: Jan 03, 2006
-
Re: The case against smallball.
I'd play Yurt 28 minutes a game. Bam 32. PJ 24. Dedmon 22.
Boom.
I mean, PJ is 40 years old. We going to kill ole dude.
Boom.
I mean, PJ is 40 years old. We going to kill ole dude.
Re: The case against smallball.
-
- Lead Assistant
- Posts: 4,513
- And1: 4,545
- Joined: Sep 27, 2021
Re: The case against smallball.
DayofMourning wrote:I'd play Yurt 28 minutes a game. Bam 32. PJ 24. Dedmon 22.
Boom.
I mean, PJ is 40 years old. We going to kill ole dude.
Exactly. We rung Iguodalas nuts through a shredder last year and he was done by the Bucks series.
Conserve the GOATucker
Re: The case against smallball.
- rate_
- Analyst
- Posts: 3,620
- And1: 8,462
- Joined: Apr 10, 2017
Re: The case against smallball.
As long as Bam is playing exclusively at C, Yurt will never get a real opportunity here. Let him thrive somewhere he can get consistent minutes while at the same time, Miami can use him as a valuable piece to move for a young player that fits with Bam in Spo's system.
Re: The case against smallball.
- RexBoyWonder
- RealGM
- Posts: 17,906
- And1: 35,776
- Joined: Mar 03, 2011
Re: The case against smallball.
It's about spacing.
The answer is always spacing.
Spacing/3 point shooting is the biggest factor in a NBA offense for years now. We already have Jimmy and Bam for paint scoring, Spo is trying to maximize the spacing and 3 point shooting around them. It's that simple.
Omer isn't a high volume/reliable 3 point shooter at this stage. If he was, he could have played like Myles Leonard did.
Spo thinks that With Omer and Bam and Jimmy as non shooters, the paint will clog and offense will struggle. Add the fact that Omer's defense is still very raw and that we're in a win now mode - and that's why we're not seeing Omer playing. Spo thinks he's a bad fit with our stars. He's trying to help the stars be stars.
The answer is always spacing.
Spacing/3 point shooting is the biggest factor in a NBA offense for years now. We already have Jimmy and Bam for paint scoring, Spo is trying to maximize the spacing and 3 point shooting around them. It's that simple.
Omer isn't a high volume/reliable 3 point shooter at this stage. If he was, he could have played like Myles Leonard did.
Spo thinks that With Omer and Bam and Jimmy as non shooters, the paint will clog and offense will struggle. Add the fact that Omer's defense is still very raw and that we're in a win now mode - and that's why we're not seeing Omer playing. Spo thinks he's a bad fit with our stars. He's trying to help the stars be stars.
Chalm Downs wrote:his nickname is boywonder ffs
Re: The case against smallball.
-
- General Manager
- Posts: 8,968
- And1: 6,270
- Joined: Dec 17, 2014
Re: The case against smallball.
teams will go after Yurt on offense
when we have both him & Bam together
when we have both him & Bam together
Re: The case against smallball.
-
- Lead Assistant
- Posts: 4,513
- And1: 4,545
- Joined: Sep 27, 2021
Re: The case against smallball.
Ah how quickly they forget. Yurt had a better record than Bam this year alongside PJ Tucker. Defensively he held his own.
As for spacing... why doesn't spacing work against the bigger teams? What will we do then?
What if we got M. Turner? This isn't about Yurt. This is philosophical.
As for spacing... why doesn't spacing work against the bigger teams? What will we do then?
What if we got M. Turner? This isn't about Yurt. This is philosophical.
Re: The case against smallball.
- JLop
- Analyst
- Posts: 3,061
- And1: 7,833
- Joined: Feb 07, 2014
-
Re: The case against smallball.
- DayofMourning
- Retired Mod
- Posts: 37,307
- And1: 91,645
- Joined: Jan 03, 2006
-
Re: The case against smallball.
RexBoyWonder wrote:It's about spacing.
The answer is always spacing.
Spacing/3 point shooting is the biggest factor in a NBA offense for years now. We already have Jimmy and Bam for paint scoring, Spo is trying to maximize the spacing and 3 point shooting around them. It's that simple.
Omer isn't a high volume/reliable 3 point shooter at this stage. If he was, he could have played like Myles Leonard did.
Spo thinks that With Omer and Bam and Jimmy as non shooters, the paint will clog and offense will struggle. Add the fact that Omer's defense is still very raw and that we're in a win now mode - and that's why we're not seeing Omer playing. Spo thinks he's a bad fit with our stars. He's trying to help the stars be stars.
Shooting, rebounding and defense. Yurt is a deterrent on D in the paint, is an awesome rebounder and can shoot.
We've got plenty of guys who can shoot threes.
Re: The case against smallball.
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 13,777
- And1: 23,489
- Joined: Jan 11, 2009
- Location: on your last nerve
-
Re: The case against smallball.
harlem_ball wrote:The bubble was another instance of the Heat running out of gas due to being too small and no one wants to listen or learn from failure.
Bam? Injured. Why? Overuse.
Nazi boy? Injured. Why? Cuz he was a stiff.
Dragic? Injured. Why? Overuse.
You have a legit 7 footer that was thriving and can hit 3s and youre going to go smaller... why?
The definition of insanity is repeating the same process without changes and expecting a different result.
The bubble was a failure and we got owned by the Lakers despite a Wade-like performance by Butler.
This despite extra rest due to the season being postponed.
Overuse indicates a lack of depth, not a lack of size. I'm all in on small ball.
.


Re: The case against smallball.
-
- Retired Mod
- Posts: 57,297
- And1: 18,400
- Joined: Jun 23, 2001
-
Re: The case against smallball.
I can't believe, after all this time, we don't trust Spo to develop players and know how to use them when they're ready.
This thread shouldn't be called the case against small ball, it should be called I love Yurt! No shame there. I like the kid a lot, too. I just don't see him as ready to be a starting center on a championship caliber team. Next year, I expect to see him play a pivotal role, but for now I'm cool letting him learn and develop.
This thread shouldn't be called the case against small ball, it should be called I love Yurt! No shame there. I like the kid a lot, too. I just don't see him as ready to be a starting center on a championship caliber team. Next year, I expect to see him play a pivotal role, but for now I'm cool letting him learn and develop.
Re: The case against smallball.
-
- Lead Assistant
- Posts: 4,513
- And1: 4,545
- Joined: Sep 27, 2021
Re: The case against smallball.
contract wrote:harlem_ball wrote:The bubble was another instance of the Heat running out of gas due to being too small and no one wants to listen or learn from failure.
Bam? Injured. Why? Overuse.
Nazi boy? Injured. Why? Cuz he was a stiff.
Dragic? Injured. Why? Overuse.
You have a legit 7 footer that was thriving and can hit 3s and youre going to go smaller... why?
The definition of insanity is repeating the same process without changes and expecting a different result.
The bubble was a failure and we got owned by the Lakers despite a Wade-like performance by Butler.
This despite extra rest due to the season being postponed.
Overuse indicates a lack of depth, not a lack of size. I'm all in on small ball.
Lol. No. Spos switching strategy combined with having to use more effort to box out bigger players is draining.
There are cons to the strategy it's not all roses.
Re: The case against smallball.
-
- Lead Assistant
- Posts: 4,513
- And1: 4,545
- Joined: Sep 27, 2021
Re: The case against smallball.
BBallFreak wrote:I can't believe, after all this time, we don't trust Spo to develop players and know how to use them when they're ready.
This thread shouldn't be called the case against small ball, it should be called I love Yurt! No shame there. I like the kid a lot, too. I just don't see him as ready to be a starting center on a championship caliber team. Next year, I expect to see him play a pivotal role, but for now I'm cool letting him learn and develop.
Well obviously you haven't read the thread lol
Re: The case against smallball.
-
- Lead Assistant
- Posts: 4,513
- And1: 4,545
- Joined: Sep 27, 2021