James Harden Wants To Be Traded To Philadelphiia; Won’t Formally Demand Trade Due To Public Backlash

[DarkXaero]

Windhorst & hack Philly reporters vs Woj...who to trust

[thinktank]

Nash has come out and said they aren’t trading Harden. Reports are that KD wants Harden to stay. Reports are Harden is willing to at least try it out the rest of the season. I haven’t seen any reports that Harden has demanded a trade. Yes he’s frustrated and I don’t blame him for having to play with an unvaxxd idiot Kyrie, but that’s a far cry from asking for a trade.

Nash is not the GM and trade talks are continuing.

Why would trade talks be continuing if there is was no chance Harden would be traded?

Why has Harden been the only one who hasn’t talked so far?

Where there is smoke, there is fire.

Because the Nets want to see what they can get for him. The idea that the Nets “have to trade Harden” and take the worst deal in the process is idiotic, when they could literally get the same deal in the summer if the best Morey is offering is Simmons and Green which is pretty laughable.

Yeah but that means both teams waste this season.

[LAL1947]

Is it just me thinking Simmons for Harden straight up actually improves the Nets????

I'm with you. I wouldn't trade Simmons to the Nets and definitely wouldn't add anything either, because:

1) It's dumb to create a division rival starting: Kyrie, Harris, Durant, Simmons, Center.
2) It'll be dumber to pay a 33-year old Harden $45-50m.
3) It'll be the dumbest to give up assets to have the "privilege" to do 1) and 2)... kinda like Minnesota did when they gave up Wiggins and a 1st round pick for D'lo, but worse.

Send Simmons to Portland for Dame instead... where he can be out of sight, out of mind for awhile.

[bebopdeluxe]

OKC doesn’t have the capspace with the SGA extension and incoming rookie contracts. If Derrick Favors declines his 10 million dollar option than I believe they do but other wise they don’t have enough to absorb either Simmons or Harris outright.

I have read in several places that OKC still has over $30 million in cap room; this is from Jake Fischer's Bleacher Report on Monday:

But if the cleanest dynamic requires Philadelphia to create cap space to sign a star outright in free agency, multiple league sources have mentioned the possibility of a Sixers trade with the Thunder to move Harris into Oklahoma City's bounty of cap space.

Philadelphia already owes its top-six protected 2025 first-round pick to the Thunder. The Sixers could remove those protections and offer additional draft capital now that Oklahoma City’s $9.6 million trade exception from a previous Trevor Ariza trade expired and the Thunder have $33.7 million in cap room.

In order to make the numbers work, the Thunder would need to send a salary back - which is why I suggested Williams' contract, as it is non-guaranteed for next season. And there actually is some incentive for OKC to do something, as they current sit below that salary cap floor.

They have now, before the deadline. In the summer SGA's extension kicks in. Which is why I keep saying, if Philly wants to clear cap space for Harden they have to trade Tobias now. Nothing is certain and there is risk both ways, and both teams know that.
If Philly knew 100% that Harden will sign with them in the summer, they would just trade Harris now. Simmons can be moved in the summer too.

If Morey unloads Harris now, then Nets have almost no leverage, and they probably have to settle for Simmons alone, but my feeling is that they cannot move Harris, but I could be wrong.

I do think this is the leverage point. Marks has to know that Morey can deal Harris to OKC. It is common knowledge that OKC is a ways away from the salary cap floor and has to do something.

So...the game of chicken here is Marks daring Morey to deal Harris to OKC - which would probably blow up the Sixers season, but would put them in position to sign Harden this summer. It would be rough on team chemistry, no doubt. Harris is a team leader, and it would throw the team in a tailspin. The alternative, however - which is trading Maxey and/or Thybulle - hurts the Sixers well beyond this season. You could also make the argument that, given teh massive contract that Harden will be signing, the Sixers FO may want Morey to move Harris anyway, to lessen the tax burden.

I think what it comes down to is what does Harden want? If he really wants to come to the Sixers, and Morey knows that, then I think he would trade Harris, take the hit on this season, but not only sign Harden as a FA, but would get whatever assets from teams with cap space this summer (like SAS or DET) would give him to get Simmons off the books...and even if the return would not be as good as Harden, I am sure those teams would at the very least give the Sixers draft picks, which could be used in turn to get additional players.

Your move, Sean.

[SK21209]

Is anyone really scared of KD and Ben Simmons in the playoffs? Let’s ignore Kyrie because he’s a part time player. But does Miami, Milwaukee, Bulls or Sixers lose sleep having to play Simmons and KD? Do the Cavs and Raptors even worry about them? KD+Harden is actually a fearsome because you know those two at the top of their game could carry a team for a couple of rounds. The point is that the Nets are just better off keeping Harden and tinkering around the edges of their roster is better than essentially giving up on their season by trading for Simmons and not getting enough compensation to make it worth it.

Yea, I've said for awhile KD and Simmons seem like a terrible fit together. But I do get it from the Nets POV, if they don't do this, they lose all the assets they moved to get Harden for nothing. That said, I find it funny how much they're trying to still get more if they're really under the kind of pressure Windhorst is claiming. You would think they would be happy just doing a straight swap and calling it a day.

If I'm the Sixers at this point, I would just move Simmons for expirings and picks right now to signal that the plan is to give the Nets nothing and take Harden from them in FA.

The Nets aren’t under the pressure the Windy is saying. Not saying that Windhorst is lying, dude is credible and legit, but honestly just look at it from a Nets perspective and not a fan perspective. They know Morey can’t sign Harden out right, they also know the Morey has no more avenues to unload Simmons since Portland and Sacramento have made their big moves and right now Morey has tied himself to Harden. If the best offer right now is Green and Harden, then who’s to say that offer won’t be their in the summer? Morey isn’t going to go through some convulted process to unload Simmons and Harris when Harden gets the most money in a sign and trade and Simmons is on the roster.

If the Nets asking for Simmons, Curry, Drummond, Thybulle is true, that trade should have been done yesterday. It’s a laughably low price for Harden who I guarantee will go back to playing like a top 5 player next to Embiid. Right now from the Nets perspective it’s not like Morey is offering anything that you couldn’t get in the offseason so why the rush to land Danny Green and Ben Simmons and in the process piss off KD and torpedo your season.

I think this is pretty spot on, but the aspect of this that I don't think is getting enough attention is how willing the Nets are to "throw away" the rest of this KD season. The guy has been great when healthy but he will be 34 when next season starts, how much longer can we keep penciling him in as a Top 3 player? Do we just not care going forward that he's 7 feet tall and tore his Achilles? If you're the Nets, for all you know this could be the last truly elite year you get out of KD. Sure Kyrie will probably be eligible to play home games next season, but at least he's healthy now. That guy has finished a postseason healthy since 2018. With no historically great team in the league right now (the Suns have been awesome, but I don't think they're at that level), this year might be the Nets' best shot.

[Schiltzenberger]

I like how Sixers fans think they can just offload $76mil from their salary cap in the offseason to sign Harden. You'd have to gut the team.
No one is taking the Harris contract unless they include Curry, Maxey or Thybulle and picks.
Same with Simmons, you'd have to include picks and another player or 2 for a team to take on that contract, plus the other teams would know Philly are desperate, so they'd be getting fleeced.

Yeah, then you can sign Harden, but you'd have no draft picks for a long time and Embiid/Harden would be playing with the sort of players that the Nets have been using lately. Plus, Embiid will get injured and Harden will go missing in the playoffs anyway.

As a Blazer fan with a team that recently opened up a lot of cap space and a star player who's openly said he wants to play with Simmons, I can guarantee you the bolded statement is 100% wrong.

Yeah, maybe. With Harris it's more about the contract.
With Simmons it's more of a headcase thing, a max player headcase that's scared to get fouled or shoot..... plus, Philly are desperate to offload him, GMs would be crazy to not try getting a Curry or Thybulle thrown into the deal.
Also Portland might want to offload their own bad contract in the deal, especially if there is no Curry/Thybulle action, making Philly have to make another trade to clear the cap space Portland just gave them.

Honestly, if Philly made the deal now they'd be better off. These dreamland scenarios of 'we'll just give team A this bad contract for some picks, then give team B a max contract headcase for some picks... and the Sixers live happily ever after' is just crazy.

As a Nets fan I'd be happy with Simmons and Thybulle, anything more would be great. I've never been a Harden fan, I hate his lazy nonchalant passes that end up as turnovers. Simmons and Thybulle would give the Nets some defense.

[bebopdeluxe]

Nash is not the GM and trade talks are continuing.

Why would trade talks be continuing if there is was no chance Harden would be traded?

Why has Harden been the only one who hasn’t talked so far?

Where there is smoke, there is fire.

Because the Nets want to see what they can get for him. The idea that the Nets “have to trade Harden” and take the worst deal in the process is idiotic, when they could literally get the same deal in the summer if the best Morey is offering is Simmons and Green which is pretty laughable.

Yeah but that means both teams waste this season.

Morey is taking the long view. He understands that he needs BOTH Maxey AND Thybulle for the team to be the best it can be. If that means trading Harris to OKC and punting on this season, then that is what you do - because the team as currently constructed is probably not built to win four playoff series.

But a team with Embiid, Harden, Maxey, Thybulle and Curry is a pretty good squad, and you can use the draft capital that you get for Simmons from the team that you trade him to (SAS, for example) to get the additional players you need.

[Johnny Bball]

Simmons + Green + pick seems a fair value. Anything else would make Sixers wait until offseason.

Embiid isn't 35 either

Price isn't getting cheaper in the offseason.

I think getting off of Tobias is cheaper than Simmons, Green, and a pick. Then its just cap space (plus the price to move Tobi).

Nets aren't taking a TH sign and trade ever.

[Johnny Bball]

Simmons + Green + pick seems a fair value. Anything else would make Sixers wait until offseason.

Embiid isn't 35 either

Price isn't getting cheaper in the offseason.

Who says Brooklyn has anything left to say in the offseason about Harden's destination?

I would love to see them rip apart the team and clear that cap space for it. For Harden. And if the nets just max Harden and he stays because he really is about the money IMO this contract. Then they can trade him later and it still doesn't work for the Sixers.

If Morey could ever make a fair trade non of this nonsense would be continuing. The guy just isn't the guy.

And when this is all said and done you can add another draft pick to the cost when they get caught tampering lol.

[Mamba81p]

I like how Sixers fans think they can just offload $76mil from their salary cap in the offseason to sign Harden. You'd have to gut the team.
No one is taking the Harris contract unless they include Curry, Maxey or Thybulle and picks.
Same with Simmons, you'd have to include picks and another player or 2 for a team to take on that contract, plus the other teams would know Philly are desperate, so they'd be getting fleeced.

Yeah, then you can sign Harden, but you'd have no draft picks for a long time and Embiid/Harden would be playing with the sort of players that the Nets have been using lately. Plus, Embiid will get injured and Harden will go missing in the playoffs anyway.

As a Blazer fan with a team that recently opened up a lot of cap space and a star player who's openly said he wants to play with Simmons, I can guarantee you the bolded statement is 100% wrong.

Yeah, maybe. With Harris it's more about the contract.
With Simmons it's more of a headcase thing, a max player headcase that's scared to get fouled or shoot..... plus, Philly are desperate to offload him, GMs would be crazy to not try getting a Curry or Thybulle thrown into the deal.
Also Portland might want to offload their own bad contract in the deal, especially if there is no Curry/Thybulle action, making Philly have to make another trade to clear the cap space Portland just gave them.

Honestly, if Philly made the deal now they'd be better off. These dreamland scenarios of 'we'll just give team A this bad contract for some picks, then give team B a max contract headcase for some picks... and the Sixers live happily ever after' is just crazy.

As a Nets fan I'd be happy with Simmons and Thybulle, anything more would be great. I've never been a Harden fan, I hate his lazy nonchalant passes that end up as turnovers. Simmons and Thybulle would give the Nets some defense.

Simmons is not the issue here. He will be easy to unload and get some assets in return. It's all about Harris

[GusFring]

Yea, I've said for awhile KD and Simmons seem like a terrible fit together. But I do get it from the Nets POV, if they don't do this, they lose all the assets they moved to get Harden for nothing. That said, I find it funny how much they're trying to still get more if they're really under the kind of pressure Windhorst is claiming. You would think they would be happy just doing a straight swap and calling it a day.

If I'm the Sixers at this point, I would just move Simmons for expirings and picks right now to signal that the plan is to give the Nets nothing and take Harden from them in FA.

The Nets aren’t under the pressure the Windy is saying. Not saying that Windhorst is lying, dude is credible and legit, but honestly just look at it from a Nets perspective and not a fan perspective. They know Morey can’t sign Harden out right, they also know the Morey has no more avenues to unload Simmons since Portland and Sacramento have made their big moves and right now Morey has tied himself to Harden. If the best offer right now is Green and Harden, then who’s to say that offer won’t be their in the summer? Morey isn’t going to go through some convulted process to unload Simmons and Harris when Harden gets the most money in a sign and trade and Simmons is on the roster.

If the Nets asking for Simmons, Curry, Drummond, Thybulle is true, that trade should have been done yesterday. It’s a laughably low price for Harden who I guarantee will go back to playing like a top 5 player next to Embiid. Right now from the Nets perspective it’s not like Morey is offering anything that you couldn’t get in the offseason so why the rush to land Danny Green and Ben Simmons and in the process piss off KD and torpedo your season.

I think this is pretty spot on, but the aspect of this that I don't think is getting enough attention is how willing the Nets are to "throw away" the rest of this KD season. The guy has been great when healthy but he will be 34 when next season starts, how much longer can we keep penciling him in as a Top 3 player? Do we just not care going forward that he's 7 feet tall and tore his Achilles? If you're the Nets, for all you know this could be the last truly elite year you get out of KD. Sure Kyrie will probably be eligible to play home games next season, but at least he's healthy now. That guy has finished a postseason healthy since 2018. With no historically great team in the league right now (the Suns have been awesome, but I don't think they're at that level), this year might be the Nets' best shot.

With how unpredictable this year has been it really is a shame kyrie couldn't get his brain in working order as they probably snag a ring, nobody looks elite. They shouldn't give up on this season.

[bebopdeluxe]

I like how Sixers fans think they can just offload $76mil from their salary cap in the offseason to sign Harden. You'd have to gut the team.
No one is taking the Harris contract unless they include Curry, Maxey or Thybulle and picks.
Same with Simmons, you'd have to include picks and another player or 2 for a team to take on that contract, plus the other teams would know Philly are desperate, so they'd be getting fleeced.

Yeah, then you can sign Harden, but you'd have no draft picks for a long time and Embiid/Harden would be playing with the sort of players that the Nets have been using lately. Plus, Embiid will get injured and Harden will go missing in the playoffs anyway.

As a Blazer fan with a team that recently opened up a lot of cap space and a star player who's openly said he wants to play with Simmons, I can guarantee you the bolded statement is 100% wrong.

Yeah, maybe. With Harris it's more about the contract.
With Simmons it's more of a headcase thing, a max player headcase that's scared to get fouled or shoot..... plus, Philly are desperate to offload him, GMs would be crazy to not try getting a Curry or Thybulle thrown into the deal.
Also Portland might want to offload their own bad contract in the deal, especially if there is no Curry/Thybulle action, making Philly have to make another trade to clear the cap space Portland just gave them.

Honestly, if Philly made the deal now they'd be better off. These dreamland scenarios of 'we'll just give team A this bad contract for some picks, then give team B a max contract headcase for some picks... and the Sixers live happily ever after' is just crazy.

As a Nets fan I'd be happy with Simmons and Thybulle, anything more would be great. I've never been a Harden fan, I hate his lazy nonchalant passes that end up as turnovers. Simmons and Thybulle would give the Nets some defense.

I really do not think that the Nets are getting either Maxey or Thybulle. I think Morey will trade Harris to OKC before he trades either of those guys to the Nets.

It is bad enough that Simmons gets rewarded for his JABRONI HOLDOUT by getting to play with KD. To add either Maxey or Thybulle makes the Nets an even tougher out in the playoffs than just adding Simmons.

[76ersForLife]

Problem being that whatever else the sixers add, makes the nets too good for the sixers to beat.

Not really, Danny Green is a Trojan horse, he is washed and cant play a lick anymore.

[thinktank]

Because the Nets want to see what they can get for him. The idea that the Nets “have to trade Harden” and take the worst deal in the process is idiotic, when they could literally get the same deal in the summer if the best Morey is offering is Simmons and Green which is pretty laughable.

Yeah but that means both teams waste this season.

Morey is taking the long view. He understands that he needs BOTH Maxey AND Thybulle for the team to be the best it can be. If that means trading Harris to OKC and punting on this season, then that is what you do - because the team as currently constructed is probably not built to win four playoff series.

But a team with Embiid, Harden, Maxey, Thybulle and Curry is a pretty good squad, and you can use the draft capital that you get for Simmons from the team that you trade him to (SAS, for example) to get the additional players you need.

Aa I JUST SAID, if these GMs want to waste this season with Simmons and Harden riding pine, then they have that option.

[Arsenal]

I trust Woj more than anyone. Someone is desperate here, not sure who, but this is getting funny

Yeah, I trust him more too, but to think one team is just transparently leaking negotiations while the other isn't is silly. All these reporters like Windy, Woj, Shams, etc... they're all getting used right now by Marks and Morey. It's impossible to tell whos version of the story is closest to the truth.

I am not saying that Nets are not leaking ****. It's just that Woj doesn't seem to throw everything out there. If he is saying that they are not going back and forth and in the next hour there is a trade, he will look like a fool. I don't think he wants that. When he says what he is saying now, I am leaning to trust him more than others. I am defending Woj here, not the Nets. They have other tools to do the dirty work.

Woj is always used for dirty work like this. It's the quid pro quo for getting the scoop when a deal actually gets done.

If a deal happens the Nets won't blindside him. They'll give him the heads-up to walk it back and save his credibility for future wetwork.

[DusterBuster]

Yeah, I trust him more too, but to think one team is just transparently leaking negotiations while the other isn't is silly. All these reporters like Windy, Woj, Shams, etc... they're all getting used right now by Marks and Morey. It's impossible to tell whos version of the story is closest to the truth.

I am not saying that Nets are not leaking ****. It's just that Woj doesn't seem to throw everything out there. If he is saying that they are not going back and forth and in the next hour there is a trade, he will look like a fool. I don't think he wants that. When he says what he is saying now, I am leaning to trust him more than others. I am defending Woj here, not the Nets. They have other tools to do the dirty work.

Woj is always used for dirty work like this. It's the quid pro quo for getting the scoop when a deal actually gets done.

If a deal happens, the Nets won't blindside Woj. They'll give him the heads-up to walk it back and save his credibility for future wetwork.

Again, it's not just Woj...

[poultryfan]

Windhorst & hack Philly reporters vs Woj...who to trust

Don't be so scared of the Deal Zone brah

[thinktank]

Is it just me thinking Simmons for Harden straight up actually improves the Nets????

I'm with you. I wouldn't trade Simmons to the Nets and definitely wouldn't add anything either, because:

1) It's dumb to create a division rival starting: Kyrie, Harris, Durant, Simmons, Center.
2) It'll be dumber to pay a 33-year old Harden $45-50m.
3) It'll be the dumbest to give up assets to have the "privilege" to do 1) and 2)... kinda like Minnesota did when they gave up Wiggins and a 1st round pick for D'lo, but worse.

Send Simmons to Portland for Dame instead... where he can be out of sight, out of mind for awhile.

DLo deal working out great for the Wolves, who are ahead of the Lakers by a handful of games.

[ShermansShoes]

Enjoying every second of this as a fan of neither team, because they both lose. The Nets will have cashed in their future ending up with a guy who won't shoot any kind of shot and is a mentally soft as baby sh@#, while the Sixers get the opportunity to pay a 33 yr old declining player with bacon strips for hamstrings and an affinity for strip clubs a max contract. I'd rather they not trade at all so we can all watch Morey this summer give up everything to clear space, while the Nets end up with nothing. Fingers crossed.

[Mamba81p]

I have read in several places that OKC still has over $30 million in cap room; this is from Jake Fischer's Bleacher Report on Monday:

But if the cleanest dynamic requires Philadelphia to create cap space to sign a star outright in free agency, multiple league sources have mentioned the possibility of a Sixers trade with the Thunder to move Harris into Oklahoma City's bounty of cap space.

Philadelphia already owes its top-six protected 2025 first-round pick to the Thunder. The Sixers could remove those protections and offer additional draft capital now that Oklahoma City’s $9.6 million trade exception from a previous Trevor Ariza trade expired and the Thunder have $33.7 million in cap room.

In order to make the numbers work, the Thunder would need to send a salary back - which is why I suggested Williams' contract, as it is non-guaranteed for next season. And there actually is some incentive for OKC to do something, as they current sit below that salary cap floor.

They have now, before the deadline. In the summer SGA's extension kicks in. Which is why I keep saying, if Philly wants to clear cap space for Harden they have to trade Tobias now. Nothing is certain and there is risk both ways, and both teams know that.
If Philly knew 100% that Harden will sign with them in the summer, they would just trade Harris now. Simmons can be moved in the summer too.

If Morey unloads Harris now, then Nets have almost no leverage, and they probably have to settle for Simmons alone, but my feeling is that they cannot move Harris, but I could be wrong.

I do think this is the leverage point. Marks has to know that Morey can deal Harris to OKC. It is common knowledge that OKC is a ways away from the salary cap floor and has to do something.

So...the game of chicken here is Marks daring Morey to deal Harris to OKC - which would probably blow up the Sixers season, but would put them in position to sign Harden this summer. It would be rough on team chemistry, no doubt. Harris is a team leader, and it would throw the team in a tailspin. The alternative, however - which is trading Maxey and/or Thybulle - hurts the Sixers well beyond this season. You could also make the argument that, given teh massive contract that Harden will be signing, the Sixers FO may want Morey to move Harris anyway, to lessen the tax burden.

I think what it comes down to is what does Harden want? If he really wants to come to the Sixers, and Morey knows that, then I think he would trade Harris, take the hit on this season, but not only sign Harden as a FA, but would get whatever assets from teams with cap space this summer (like SAS or DET) would give him to get Simmons off the books...and even if the return would not be as good as Harden, I am sure those teams would at the very least give the Sixers draft picks, which could be used in turn to get additional players.

Your move, Sean.

That's the thing though. Next year they are not under the floor anymore. They could even get dangerously close to the lux tax if Favors opts in. How many first round picks for 76 mil$? Sure they could unload Favors, but that will cost them. They are in business to get draft picks, not to give them to unload salaries. They essentially got 2 FRP for Kemba's contract(53mil$). 1 when they traded for Al, and one from Celtics, and that's when they were under the floor. Now what is the price? 3FRP?