Game 54: Pistons (12-41) @ Mavericks (31-23) Feb. 8 8:30 PM EST

[kpt]

This is how the draft goes. Nearly all the draft "experts" out there were calling for Hayes over Haliburton and some had him way higher than 7. We need to focus on developing him as much as possible and move forward. Like Manocad has said his playing time is not blocking anyone else's playing time (paraphrasing)

[Manocad]

I wish we weren’t the only team that missed out on Halliburton. How can weaver live down being the only gm that missed on him?

I sense sarcasm. It's one thing to miss out on a player while/due to drafting a different position. It's another thing to miss out on a player because you thought someone else who plays the same position was a better pick. We're the only ones who did that.

That completely disregards the idea that other teams could have drafted a player playing another position because of BPA, and Haliburton wasn't deemed the BPA.

I think getting Saddiq makes up for it. You can't judge a GM solely by their misses and classify all the hits as "Well yeah, anyone could have done that."

[Manocad]

This is how the draft goes. Nearly all the draft "experts" out there were calling for Hayes over Haliburton and some had him way higher than 7. We need to focus on developing him as much as possible and move forward. Like Manocad has said his playing time is not blocking anyone else's playing time (paraphrasing)

The question that no one will answer:

If not Hayes, then who?

There's been one answer rather timidly thrown out--Lee. And no one with two eyes and half a brain who watched Lee play and formed an objective opinion would say "Yes, clearly Lee needs to be the 'project' rather than Hayes." And that's in no way a knock on Lee; he's a rookie and should be given time to develop. But he sure as s**t didn't show anything that would make anyone say "He absolutely needs to be above Hayes on the depth/development chart."

One of the recent arguments I saw relative to Hayes was "I just have higher standards." Great. Got it. That doesn't mean those standards equate to reality.

[flow]

I wish we weren’t the only team that missed out on Halliburton. How can weaver live down being the only gm that missed on him?

I sense sarcasm. It's one thing to miss out on a player while/due to drafting a different position. It's another thing to miss out on a player because you thought someone else who plays the same position was a better pick. We're the only ones who did that.

That completely disregards the idea that other teams could have drafted a player playing another position because of BPA, and Haliburton wasn't deemed the BPA.

I think getting Saddiq makes up for it. You can't judge a GM solely by their misses and classify all the hits as "Well yeah, anyone could have done that."

Yes, it disregards ideas, presumptions and theories that one might have. It deals with a fact in evidence. Which is that one team chose a lesser PG over Haliburton.

I agree that Bey was a great pick. I still believe Stew was, also. As was Lee at #46.

[440BB]

Revisiting the Halliburton draft, there was talk at the time that he sabotaged his draft prospects for some teams so that he'd end up on the Kings. https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/kings/did-tyrese-haliburton-agent-engineer-nba-draft-day-tumble-kings?amp

With both Woods and Halliburton, it may be convenient to overlook the actual efforts both made to find places other than Detroit to play, but it is revisionist history.

[Pistonrings]

I know most don’t like him here, but today seems like a weird game to call him out when everyone stunk it up out there. Saddiq, cojo, olynyk, lyles… nothing for them?

Hayes is playing much better off the bench recently and he’d look a lot better if he wasn’t playing with post injury olynyk (who has forgetting how to basketball) and pump fake lyles. Why is it so hard for people to understand what a project is? People develop differently blah blah blah it’s been said a million times, yet if you don’t produce as a rookie get the hell out of here.
Last I checked, we suck. Let the kids play.

with cojo, KO, lyles, etc. i think everyone knows we will move on from them the second we can upgrade. today was a good reminder for how much bey has to improve on if he wants to be anything than a spot-up shooter and occasional iso guy and actually impact winning.

but i just want to reiterate that even with hayes "playing better" recently he is still severely underperforming. i don't mean in terms of a young player or anything like that, i mean in general. there isn't a player within 500 minutes played that has a worse scoring efficiency than him. so basically, he has the worst scoring efficiency of any rotation player in the league and that's for the second season in a row. he's in his second season in a very limited role that gives him tons of open/easy looks. making shots like that is something that EVERY ROTATION PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE seems to be able to do better than hayes, and yet hayes has special allowances for some reason.

on a team so devoid of actual talent we should be setting our bar much, much higher than what hayes has shown us and what potential one thinks he might have. a "project" can be many things, by the way. restoring a shelby cobra from the 1960's is a project. restoring a honda civic from the 90's is also a project, but really is 99% likely a waste of time and energy. i'll let you decide which hayes' situation is closer to.

You say his 2nd season but calling that 26 game nonsense last year was no real season, he had no summer league, not much camp, and was done wrong by being shoved in the starting lineup when he was nowhere near ready and Casey has admitted it was a mistake that hurt Killian.

He has played 63 total games in what is realistically his real rookie season. No way 63 games is even close to enough sample to judge his later career potential. Is he not big enough, reach too short, low IQ? The only thing I see holding him up is just his mental situation to which the Pistons coaching staff has at least 50 to 75 percent of the blame for.

Imo, and many others as well, he needs TWO FULL SEASONS, 164 GAMES to just begin knowing if he can become something good in the NBA, not only that, he is already the best passer on the team and probably our best defender. We have already seen his mentality change a bit since he has come off the bench.

So for me, 164 games will be a nice point to have an idea of his long term potential, not 63 games in what is his real rookie season.

I notice most every argument against his claims 2nd season, as if he has played 140 game or something when he does even have one full season of play yet.

On top of that, I believe Casey has been horrible for the kid. If Billups we're coaching him, imo, he would be much further along in his development.

[Manocad]

I sense sarcasm. It's one thing to miss out on a player while/due to drafting a different position. It's another thing to miss out on a player because you thought someone else who plays the same position was a better pick. We're the only ones who did that.

That completely disregards the idea that other teams could have drafted a player playing another position because of BPA, and Haliburton wasn't deemed the BPA.

I think getting Saddiq makes up for it. You can't judge a GM solely by their misses and classify all the hits as "Well yeah, anyone could have done that."

Yes, it disregards ideas, presumptions and theories that one might have. It deals with a fact in evidence. Which is that one team chose a lesser PG over Haliburton.

I agree that Bey was a great pick. I still believe Stew was, also. As was Lee at #46.

10 other teams chose other players over Haliburton. Also a fact. If we're doing away with all presumptions here, we can obviously do away with the presumption that only two teams were set on drafting nothing but a PG.