2021-22 NBA Season Discussion

[Peregrine01]

This is what happens when you give so much power to superstar divas. They're perpetually unhappy, unsatisfied (largely because of their own doing) and will quickly ditch the ship when things aren't going their way. Only person I feel sorry for in this whole Nets drama is Nash.

[Colbinii]

This is what happens when you give so much power to superstar divas. They're perpetually unhappy, unsatisfied (largely because of their own doing) and will quickly ditch the ship when things aren't going their way. Only person I feel sorry for in this whole Nets drama is Nash.

Yup.

As someone pro-player and player empowerment, the dial has turned too far into the power of the players. The next collective bargaining agreement is going to be interesting, as a majority of the players who rightfully followed in LeBrons footsteps are nearing an end to their NBA careers.

How is the NBA going to balance this? What incentives can the NBA provide the players to change this? Less games seems like a no-brainer.

[Peregrine01]

This is what happens when you give so much power to superstar divas. They're perpetually unhappy, unsatisfied (largely because of their own doing) and will quickly ditch the ship when things aren't going their way. Only person I feel sorry for in this whole Nets drama is Nash.

Yup.

As someone pro-player and player empowerment, the dial has turned too far into the power of the players. The next collective bargaining agreement is going to be interesting, as a majority of the players who rightfully followed in LeBrons footsteps are nearing an end to their NBA careers.

How is the NBA going to balance this? What incentives can the NBA provide the players to change this? Less games seems like a no-brainer.

It's absolutely insane how much money some players are getting for not even playing. Owners will start taking the cue that a lot of these guys aren't worth close to this kind of money.

[Colbinii]

This is what happens when you give so much power to superstar divas. They're perpetually unhappy, unsatisfied (largely because of their own doing) and will quickly ditch the ship when things aren't going their way. Only person I feel sorry for in this whole Nets drama is Nash.

Yup.

As someone pro-player and player empowerment, the dial has turned too far into the power of the players. The next collective bargaining agreement is going to be interesting, as a majority of the players who rightfully followed in LeBrons footsteps are nearing an end to their NBA careers.

How is the NBA going to balance this? What incentives can the NBA provide the players to change this? Less games seems like a no-brainer.

It's absolutely insane how much money some players are getting for not even playing. Owners will start taking the cue that a lot of these guys aren't worth close to this kind of money.

Almost as insane as the Billionaires who are making even more than players while sporting **** teams.

The players are worth this much money because the league generates this much money. Let's not forget the NBA is an advertising business first and foremost.

[Peregrine01]

Yup.

As someone pro-player and player empowerment, the dial has turned too far into the power of the players. The next collective bargaining agreement is going to be interesting, as a majority of the players who rightfully followed in LeBrons footsteps are nearing an end to their NBA careers.

How is the NBA going to balance this? What incentives can the NBA provide the players to change this? Less games seems like a no-brainer.

It's absolutely insane how much money some players are getting for not even playing. Owners will start taking the cue that a lot of these guys aren't worth close to this kind of money.

Almost as insane as the Billionaires who are making even more than players while sporting **** teams.

The players are worth this much money because the league generates this much money. Let's not forget the NBA is an advertising business first and foremost.

Like it or not, these billionaires put up their own capital to buy these teams so they've risked something. These players are getting paid for doing nothing while hurting their team's chances of winning.

Re: advertising - that's kind of my point. Simmons has missed the whole season but I doubt that's affected the Sixers' revenue all that much. And despite mortgaging their future and paying a crap load to KD, Kyrie and Harden, the Nets still don't have a fanbase. I think the owners are starting to realize that no single player is bigger than the league.

[cpower]

Thoughts on the Embiid/Harden fit? Obviously championship level talent but curious to see how the 15th best coach in NBA history will use them.

will be used like CP3 and Griffin. like the fit but they need more shooting .

[GSP]

This is what happens when you give so much power to superstar divas. They're perpetually unhappy, unsatisfied (largely because of their own doing) and will quickly ditch the ship when things aren't going their way. Only person I feel sorry for in this whole Nets drama is Nash.

Nash is a horrific Nba coach that shouldn't be in this position and is getting paid to do nothing no reason to feel sorry

[Krodis]

Is Kyrie the GOAT at imploding teams?

Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk

[GSP]

Is Kyrie the GOAT at imploding teams?

Sent from my SM-N981U using Tapatalk

By far

Nets big 3 played 16 games together

[Doctor MJ]

I guess I sort of agree with you and it’s definitely frustrating. But my I guess my question is this?

Do we think that any of the pieces that were available thus far make them into contenders this year?

It seems like people are in agreement that last the Sixers WITH Ben Simmons are solidly not contenders.

If Morey makes a move for say McCollum do we really think that’s a contending team? Because if the answer is No, then doesn’t making that trade effectively end Embiid’s window?

I guess I can see the rationale (although I waiver on agreeing with it) that Morey’s better off trying to hit a home run at this stage, even if the odds are relatively slim.

Also, while I think the Laker’s are proof of why you don’t let your franchise player be your GM, I have to think that Embiid must have signed off on this approach. There’s no chance that he’s not being consulted every step of the way right?

None of this is to say that the Sixers shouldn’t have tried to keep Butler and move Simmons, but I think that was before Morey’s time?

The time to trade Simmons was before last year's playoff trauma. Simple as that. His stock has fallen drastically, as has other franchise's perception of the 76ers' leverage. This may seem like a "Well sure, given everything we know now.", but many of us said that one of the two stars needed to be traded after the 2020 playoffs, and speaking for myself, I had assumed that they brought Morey in to make the hard decision that no one earlier had had the balls to make.

So to me, by far the biggest decision Morey made was not taking seriously the idea that he was sitting on something of a ticking timebomb.

The fact that after the timebomb went off Morey's continued to drag his heels in the name of not trading Simmons until someone else gets desperate enough to offer something fitting for Simmons' prior trade value is the more fascinating spectacle, but it's largely just a gamble being made because Philly doesn't like any of the options realistically available to them at this point. Well and good to try this for a while, but the longer you try it, the more the reality of the consequences will sink in.

Your franchise player is the most injury-prone franchise player since Bill Walton, and if you don't trade Simmons until the off-season, then you've literally wasted what could easily become the healthiest year of his career (if Embiid actually managed to avoid another injury until next season) under the premise that Ben Simmons is so highly valued by other NBA teams that the 76ers will successfully him for assets that you see as more valuable than Simmons.

Maybe it pays off, but if it doesn't, Morey's going to look like a fool.

Re: if trading for McCollum closes the 76ers championship window, why do it? I'd suggest that to the degree McCollum not being good enough could be said to close an open championship window, we should also acknowledge that said championship window has already closed, and what Morey is praying is that the right trade will come along for Simmons that will pry it back open

That prayer can in theory last forever, but let it suffice to say that while Morey claims he can wait Simmons out for 4 years, he cannot. He'll get fired before then, and look like an idiot who strung along the 76ers franchise for years because he really had no plan for how to get the team where he was hired to get them.

Not a fool after all.

lol. Yup, this has the potential now to be Morey's finest moment in retrospect.

To reiterate: I do think Morey got lucky here, in the sense that he couldn't know that this would work out. People are going to feel like, in retrospect, "If it wasn't Harden, it would have been someone else", but I don't think it was any kind of given that this was inevitable.

The case of Harden is very specific in the sense that we're not talking about about Philly having a problem with Simmons as the same time as Harden becomes available and making the deal. No, Harden became available last year, and the expectation afterward was that Harden would be off the table for the foreseeable future. The fact that Harden wouldn't even complete one full season on his new team before pulling the same s**t again is frankly disturbing to me.

As I say all that, clearly Morey has this relationship with Harden and surely was working every channel possible to get him to think the grass was greener in Philly. In this sense, Morey deserves more credit than he would if he made a deal for, say, Lillard, because a Lillard deal would be entirely about the situation in Portland in a way I don't think is true about Harden.

But now it's happened, and now the question will become how well Harden fits next to Embiid. Harden better be on his absolute best behavior going forward because the last thing Embiid will need is a toxic, fat, mid-30s Harden on a brand new mega-max deal.

Last note: Things may turn out well for Seth, but I'm bummed that yet again his team decided they liked him but not enough to keep him. I felt like he proved himself in Dallas to the point that they shouldn't have been looking to trade him, and while Philly trading him for Harden is far more understandable, it's yet another team, and now on a new team with an immature, insecure superstar who treated his brother like s**t.

[falcolombardi]

on other news i am very confused by dallas trade

what do they need dinwidde for as a third best ball handler (behind luka and brunson) that is probably not much better than thj?

[Outside]

on other news i am very confused by dallas trade

what do they need dinwidde for as a third best ball handler (behind luka and brunson) that is probably not much better than thj?

Only thing I can figure is that they had no faith in Porzingis to fill the role they needed, both because he's hurt (he played 43 of 72 games last season and 34 of 55 games this season) and because he doesn't produce and can't initiate offense on his own.

This does leave them very small up front. Maybe that opens up the middle even more for Doncic to work inside?

I'd be interested to hear what TexasChuck thinks about the trade.

[Outside]

Spoiler:

The time to trade Simmons was before last year's playoff trauma. Simple as that. His stock has fallen drastically, as has other franchise's perception of the 76ers' leverage. This may seem like a "Well sure, given everything we know now.", but many of us said that one of the two stars needed to be traded after the 2020 playoffs, and speaking for myself, I had assumed that they brought Morey in to make the hard decision that no one earlier had had the balls to make.

So to me, by far the biggest decision Morey made was not taking seriously the idea that he was sitting on something of a ticking timebomb.

The fact that after the timebomb went off Morey's continued to drag his heels in the name of not trading Simmons until someone else gets desperate enough to offer something fitting for Simmons' prior trade value is the more fascinating spectacle, but it's largely just a gamble being made because Philly doesn't like any of the options realistically available to them at this point. Well and good to try this for a while, but the longer you try it, the more the reality of the consequences will sink in.

Your franchise player is the most injury-prone franchise player since Bill Walton, and if you don't trade Simmons until the off-season, then you've literally wasted what could easily become the healthiest year of his career (if Embiid actually managed to avoid another injury until next season) under the premise that Ben Simmons is so highly valued by other NBA teams that the 76ers will successfully him for assets that you see as more valuable than Simmons.

Maybe it pays off, but if it doesn't, Morey's going to look like a fool.

Re: if trading for McCollum closes the 76ers championship window, why do it? I'd suggest that to the degree McCollum not being good enough could be said to close an open championship window, we should also acknowledge that said championship window has already closed, and what Morey is praying is that the right trade will come along for Simmons that will pry it back open

That prayer can in theory last forever, but let it suffice to say that while Morey claims he can wait Simmons out for 4 years, he cannot. He'll get fired before then, and look like an idiot who strung along the 76ers franchise for years because he really had no plan for how to get the team where he was hired to get them.

Not a fool after all.

lol. Yup, this has the potential now to be Morey's finest moment in retrospect.

To reiterate: I do think Morey got lucky here, in the sense that he couldn't know that this would work out. People are going to feel like, in retrospect, "If it wasn't Harden, it would have been someone else", but I don't think it was any kind of given that this was inevitable.

The case of Harden is very specific in the sense that we're not talking about about Philly having a problem with Simmons as the same time as Harden becomes available and making the deal. No, Harden became available last year, and the expectation afterward was that Harden would be off the table for the foreseeable future. The fact that Harden wouldn't even complete one full season on his new team before pulling the same s**t again is frankly disturbing to me.

As I say all that, clearly Morey has this relationship with Harden and surely was working every channel possible to get him to think the grass was greener in Philly. In this sense, Morey deserves more credit than he would if he made a deal for, say, Lillard, because a Lillard deal would be entirely about the situation in Portland in a way I don't think is true about Harden.

But now it's happened, and now the question will become how well Harden fits next to Embiid. Harden better be on his absolute best behavior going forward because the last thing Embiid will need is a toxic, fat, mid-30s Harden on a brand new mega-max deal.

Last note: Things may turn out well for Seth, but I'm bummed that yet again his team decided they liked him but not enough to keep him. I felt like he proved himself in Dallas to the point that they shouldn't have been looking to trade him, and while Philly trading him for Harden is far more understandable, it's yet another team, and now on a new team with an immature, insecure superstar who treated his brother like s**t.

Yeah, I think Seth has turned into quite a good NBA player. I thought he was Philly's second-best player in the PS last year. I thought Dallas was a great fit for him. Maybe things will work out eventually for him somewhere.

[Colbinii]

on other news i am very confused by dallas trade

what do they need dinwidde for as a third best ball handler (behind luka and brunson) that is probably not much better than thj?

Only thing I can figure is that they had no faith in Porzingis to fill the role they needed, both because he's hurt (he played 43 of 72 games last season and 34 of 55 games this season) and because he doesn't produce and can't initiate offense on his own.

This does leave them very small up front. Maybe that opens up the middle even more for Doncic to work inside?

I'd be interested to hear what TexasChuck thinks about the trade.

Porzingis also has knee issues [past and currently] and judging by the recent news about Beal [out for season] I am guessing Porzingis is out for the year as well.

[MartinToVaught]

This is what happens when you give so much power to superstar divas. They're perpetually unhappy, unsatisfied (largely because of their own doing) and will quickly ditch the ship when things aren't going their way. Only person I feel sorry for in this whole Nets drama is Nash.

I don't feel sorry for Nash because he got the job and kept the job only because he's Marks' close friend. As a coach, he is terrible. Wrangling the egos of KD, Kyrie and Harden would be a Sisyphean task for any coach, but he didn't even try.

[MartinToVaught]

on other news i am very confused by dallas trade

what do they need dinwidde for as a third best ball handler (behind luka and brunson) that is probably not much better than thj?

Between all the rumors before the deadline, trading for Dinwiddie, and paying DFS, it really looks like they're moving on from Brunson as soon as they can, which strikes me as a huge mistake on their part.

[sp6r=underrated]

I'm extremely pro-player. I really have no problem with what the superstars are doing. Cards on the table: I don't think there should be an NBA Draft, which isn't going away anytime soon.

If the owners dislike superstar players demanding trades all the time they could easily solve the problem. Eliminate maximum salaries and allow superstars to get paid what they're worth. The NBA will never do that because max individual salaries allows the owners to convince the normal players to sign onto a CBA that gives the players an artificially low % of basketball related income.

Basically the owners decided to steal from the players. To get away with it, they steal from the most productive players to give to the median player. An artificially low salaries naturally resulted in superstars focusing on non-wage compensation (City, teammates, marketing opportunities, etc)

[sp6r=underrated]

Celtics have the best net rating in the East according to bball reference but are only the 7th seed. Could they make some noise in the playoffs?

Yes. They have a walking 50-point scorer in Tatum and terrific role players [Smart, Brown, Williams, Horford].

I would actually like to see them make a consolidate trade.

They're an excellent candidate for dark horse in the playoffs.

[MartinToVaught]

I'm extremely pro-player. I really have no problem with what the superstars are doing. Cards on the table: I don't think there should be an NBA Draft, which isn't going away anytime soon.

If the owners dislike superstar players demanding trades all the time they could easily solve the problem. Eliminate maximum salaries and allow superstars to get paid what they're worth. The NBA will never do that because max individual salaries allows the owners to convince the normal players to sign onto a CBA that gives the players an artificially low % of basketball related income.

Basically the owners decided to steal from the players. To get away with it, they steal from the most productive players to give to the median player. An artificially low salaries naturally resulted in superstars focusing on non-wage compensation (City, teammates, marketing opportunities, etc)

Eliminating max contracts would just result in stars hogging 95% of their teams' salary cap space by themselves, getting unhappy that they aren't winning, and still forcing their way out anyway.

It's easier to pin all the blame on owners and front offices instead of the players, but the harsh reality is that some players are just divas who will never be happy no matter what.

[falcolombardi]

I'm extremely pro-player. I really have no problem with what the superstars are doing. Cards on the table: I don't think there should be an NBA Draft, which isn't going away anytime soon.

If the owners dislike superstar players demanding trades all the time they could easily solve the problem. Eliminate maximum salaries and allow superstars to get paid what they're worth. The NBA will never do that because max individual salaries allows the owners to convince the normal players to sign onto a CBA that gives the players an artificially low % of basketball related income.

Basically the owners decided to steal from the players. To get away with it, they steal from the most productive players to give to the median player. An artificially low salaries naturally resulted in superstars focusing on non-wage compensation (City, teammates, marketing opportunities, etc)

yep, the greater trick the (devil) american sports owners ever pulled was convincing people they were the underdogs

worst comes to worst owners can simply renegotiate a better deal they thinl fairer, one which players are free to fight or disagree with

that is how negociations work, if the billonaires who literally own the league and should have all the power cannot negotiate a better deal then maybe the players demands are not that unreasonable