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WOJ: Harden, Millsap for Simmons, Curry, Drummons, Two #1's

Moderators: Rich Rane, NyCeEvO

Your thoughts on the deal

Nets win
34
26%
Philly wins
36
28%
Good for both teams
46
36%
Hate it, fire Marks
7
5%
Long live Marks!
6
5%
 
Total votes: 129

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Re: WOJ: Harden, Millsap for Simmons, Curry, Drummons, Two #1's 

Post#241 » by HardenToSixers » Fri Feb 11, 2022 11:48 am

syntax wrote:
HardenToSixers wrote:Won't comment on anything else but since I've seen it mentioned a few times I wouldn't get your hopes up for a small ball C Simmons. Sixers would've loved to have used him in that way and it just didn't work. Can't anchor the defense in the same way that somebody like an undersized Draymond Green can. And frankly isn't that good at guarding people similar-sized/bigger than him. His best defensive traits are being able to guard most SFs/smaller PFs while also being able to stay in front of almost all smaller guards well due to his very quick feet.


https://hoopshabit.com/2021/06/03/sixers-experiment-ben-simmons-center/

leaving Simmons as the small-ball five. Ben Simmons filled the position well as he finished with a triple-double of 19 points, 10 rebounds, 11 assists, two blocks and a steal in a 17-point win to close the series.

So did the experiment work? Yes.

Thanks for playing.

Lol. First of all, I have no agenda on this. I was offering harmless insight on one particular matter that I noticed several times in the thread. It's something as a fan that I would personally be surprised by as well since logically you would think he would excel at the position and with the Sixers it never worked that well in practice nor was used very often. It is certainly possible that another coach is able to bring the role out more effectively or give the role more of a try, however I was attempting to share useful info from my time watching him with the Sixers.

Second of all, you didn't even read the article that you posted past the quote that you were content with finding. In fact, the article essentially repeats what I just said above :lol:

Defensively is the bigger concern, Simmons may be a Defensive Player of the Year candidate but he’s done that by his menacing perimeter defense, not his interior defense.

The Wizards center rotation is not something high on the scouting report. In the starting lineup, Harris was guarding Gafford while Simmons was on the wings covering Rui Hachimura. When the benches came through Dwight Howard matched Robin Lopez’s minutes, who managed to continue his Kareem Abdul-JaLopez hooks.

Not to mention that the Wizards lacked an overly threatening big in that series as noted.

Finally, I've watched Simmons play for years and it occurred in more times than just the one playoff game last year which you decided to chime in with, and as I noted, it always left a bit to be desired. I wished it would've worked better, and if it had he would've played the position more often since Simmons playing backup 5 during Embiid rest minutes would've been great for staggering lineups.

That said, I wouldn't expect an Australian Simmons stan to be able to have an actual, nuanced conversation about a single flaw about Ben Simmons. If you'd like to continue this feel free to take it to the PMs so that we don't needlessly clog the Nets board however I don't have much left to add given that it was a harmless update meant to be informative to Ben's new team about an observation about his game.

Thanks for playing.
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Re: WOJ: Harden, Millsap for Simmons, Curry, Drummons, Two #1's 

Post#242 » by HardenToSixers » Fri Feb 11, 2022 11:48 am

syntax wrote:
HardenToSixers wrote:Won't comment on anything else but since I've seen it mentioned a few times I wouldn't get your hopes up for a small ball C Simmons. Sixers would've loved to have used him in that way and it just didn't work. Can't anchor the defense in the same way that somebody like an undersized Draymond Green can. And frankly isn't that good at guarding people similar-sized/bigger than him. His best defensive traits are being able to guard most SFs/smaller PFs while also being able to stay in front of almost all smaller guards well due to his very quick feet.


https://hoopshabit.com/2021/06/03/sixers-experiment-ben-simmons-center/

leaving Simmons as the small-ball five. Ben Simmons filled the position well as he finished with a triple-double of 19 points, 10 rebounds, 11 assists, two blocks and a steal in a 17-point win to close the series.

So did the experiment work? Yes.

Thanks for playing.

Lol. First of all, I have no agenda on this. I was offering harmless insight on one particular matter that I noticed mentioned several times in the thread. It's something as a fan that I would personally be surprised by as well since logically you would think he would excel at the position and with the Sixers it never worked that well in practice nor was used very often. It is certainly possible that another coach is able to bring the role out more effectively or give the role more of a try, however I was attempting to share useful info from my time watching him with the Sixers.

Second of all, you didn't even read the article that you posted past the quote that you were content with finding. In fact, the article essentially repeats what I just said above :lol:

Defensively is the bigger concern, Simmons may be a Defensive Player of the Year candidate but he’s done that by his menacing perimeter defense, not his interior defense.

The Wizards center rotation is not something high on the scouting report. In the starting lineup, Harris was guarding Gafford while Simmons was on the wings covering Rui Hachimura. When the benches came through Dwight Howard matched Robin Lopez’s minutes, who managed to continue his Kareem Abdul-JaLopez hooks.

Not to mention that the Wizards lacked an overly threatening big in that series as noted.

Finally, I've watched Simmons play for years and it occurred in more times than just the one playoff game last year which you decided to chime in with, and as I noted, it always left a bit to be desired. I wished it would've worked better, and if it had he would've played the position more often since Simmons playing backup 5 during Embiid rest minutes would've been great for staggering lineups.

That said, I wouldn't expect an Australian Simmons stan to be able to have an actual, nuanced conversation about a single flaw about Ben Simmons. If you'd like to continue this feel free to take it to the PMs so that we don't needlessly clog the Nets board however I don't have much left to add given that it was a harmless update meant to be informative to Ben's new team about an observation about his game.

Thanks for playing.
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Re: WOJ: Harden, Millsap for Simmons, Curry, Drummons, Two #1's 

Post#243 » by syntax » Fri Feb 11, 2022 12:31 pm

Sixers fans.. stay on your own board.
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Re: WOJ: Harden, Millsap for Simmons, Curry, Drummons, Two #1's 

Post#244 » by Tomjas » Fri Feb 11, 2022 12:33 pm

Hard to believe that an anti Simmons troll is polluting another team’s board after he’s been traded but here we are

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Re: WOJ: Harden, Millsap for Simmons, Curry, Drummons, Two #1's 

Post#245 » by NyCeEvO » Fri Feb 11, 2022 1:33 pm

syntax wrote:Sixers fans.. stay on your own board.
As long as they're not trolling or derailing threads, there's nothing wrong with people from other boards posting on the Nets board.

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Re: WOJ: Harden, Millsap for Simmons, Curry, Drummons, Two #1's 

Post#246 » by Rastas » Fri Feb 11, 2022 1:42 pm

Bens game against Utah as the Sixers Embiid less centre is a likely preview to how he will perform against tbe 76ers.
40plus point triple.
Ben had plenty motivation to give it a bit extra against a salty Jazz fanbase and his DPOY rival Gobert.
Pretty sure he has plenty motivation to turn it up against Philly , and he knows no one on that team can even remotly slow him down.
As long as Nets dont have a 40% usage centre clogging up where Ben works best you guys should see a superior Simmons.

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Re: WOJ: Harden, Millsap for Simmons, Curry, Drummons, Two #1's 

Post#247 » by Hello Brooklyn » Fri Feb 11, 2022 2:27 pm

HardenToSixers wrote:Won't comment on anything else but since I've seen it mentioned a few times I wouldn't get your hopes up for a small ball C Simmons. Sixers would've loved to have used him in that way and it just didn't work. Can't anchor the defense in the same way that somebody like an undersized Draymond Green can. And frankly isn't that good at guarding people similar-sized/bigger than him. His best defensive traits are being able to guard most SFs/smaller PFs while also being able to stay in front of almost all smaller guards well due to his very quick feet.


I agree with you.

Simmons at small ball C is a dumb idea.

Simmons is at his best at PG with shooters around him. We saw this in Philly when Embiid was hurt.
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Re: WOJ: Harden, Millsap for Simmons, Curry, Drummons, Two #1's 

Post#248 » by HardenToSixers » Fri Feb 11, 2022 3:06 pm

syntax wrote:Sixers fans.. stay on your own board.


I came in peace and was lurking. Only commented to share insights on Simmons as a small ball 5. Sorry that you felt so owned by your awful attempt at trying to disprove what I said that you felt the need to lash out.

I'm fairly certain I've seen you on the Sixers board in the past so either you jumped ship a long time ago or it's laughable that you jumped ship with the Simmons trade and are already trying to make comments like that :lol:
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Re: WOJ: Harden, Millsap for Simmons, Curry, Drummons, Two #1's 

Post#249 » by akhan786 » Fri Feb 11, 2022 3:11 pm

I never wanted Harden on the team (I have personally hated watching him play for years) so I’m glad I don’t have to root for him anymore.

Simmons is a perfect combo with Kyrie and KD so that the third star isn’t expected to take late game half court shots. He can bring the ball up, run the fast break, and focus on being DPOY so that KD/Kyrie save energy to close late in the postseason
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Re: WOJ: Harden, Millsap for Simmons, Curry, Drummons, Two #1's 

Post#250 » by British Bulldog » Fri Feb 11, 2022 3:11 pm

Hello Brooklyn wrote:
HardenToSixers wrote:Won't comment on anything else but since I've seen it mentioned a few times I wouldn't get your hopes up for a small ball C Simmons. Sixers would've loved to have used him in that way and it just didn't work. Can't anchor the defense in the same way that somebody like an undersized Draymond Green can. And frankly isn't that good at guarding people similar-sized/bigger than him. His best defensive traits are being able to guard most SFs/smaller PFs while also being able to stay in front of almost all smaller guards well due to his very quick feet.


I agree with you.

Simmons at small ball C is a dumb idea.

Simmons is at his best at PG with shooters around him. We saw this in Philly when Embiid was hurt.


Totally agree he’s at his best when playing PG, that’s when his physical tools and skill set are at their most advantageous.

Ben surrounded by curry, Harris, mills etc makes me smile.

Elite defender and rebounder for his position.

Go nets!
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Re: WOJ: Harden, Millsap for Simmons, Curry, Drummons, Two #1's 

Post#251 » by Snotbubbles » Fri Feb 11, 2022 3:37 pm

akhan786 wrote:I never wanted Harden on the team (I have personally hated watching him play for years) so I’m glad I don’t have to root for him anymore.

Simmons is a perfect combo with Kyrie and KD so that the third star isn’t expected to take late game half court shots. He can bring the ball up, run the fast break, and focus on being DPOY so that KD/Kyrie save energy to close late in the postseason


Sounds exactly how the Sixers tried to use him. However, you aren't going to take the ball out of Irving's hand to give it to Simmons for drive and dish opportunities mostly because teams have figured out that Simmons isn't shooting jumpers so they sag off him and other defenders just stay with their men. Once Brooklyn gets into their halfcourt offense, Simmons has no place. Simmons standing on the outside will allow his man to help or double because he isn't a threat to shoot when the ball gets kicked to him which allows the defense time to recover. The Sixers tried him moving under the basket and posting up but he isn't really great at that either. His best offense is in transition where he's unstoppable. He also is an absolute zero at the end of games because he's scared to touch the ball for fear of getting fouled and having to shoot foul shots. Having him and Drummond in there in the final 4 minutes of a close game would be a bad idea for Brooklyn.
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Re: WOJ: Harden, Millsap for Simmons, Curry, Drummons, Two #1's 

Post#252 » by MGrand15 » Fri Feb 11, 2022 3:41 pm

I don't mind this trade but Marks really failed by not making another move this deadline. The team is still really unbalanced unless we're 100% healthy. That's a dumb thing to bank on.

Kyrie / Patty
Harris / Curry / Cam
KD / Brown
Simmons / Edwards
Blake / LMA / Claxton

That's a potentially great squad but we need Harris healthy + an average wing shooter + figure out our center mess. I can't believe we have 5 centers. We also need to cut James Johnson ASAP. If he's a good locker room guy, then make sure he's not in the rotation. We don't have the shooting to make up for his weaknesses and his defense is not good at all.
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Re: WOJ: Harden, Millsap for Simmons, Curry, Drummons, Two #1's 

Post#253 » by MGrand15 » Fri Feb 11, 2022 3:53 pm

Snotbubbles wrote:
akhan786 wrote:I never wanted Harden on the team (I have personally hated watching him play for years) so I’m glad I don’t have to root for him anymore.

Simmons is a perfect combo with Kyrie and KD so that the third star isn’t expected to take late game half court shots. He can bring the ball up, run the fast break, and focus on being DPOY so that KD/Kyrie save energy to close late in the postseason


Sounds exactly how the Sixers tried to use him. However, you aren't going to take the ball out of Irving's hand to give it to Simmons for drive and dish opportunities mostly because teams have figured out that Simmons isn't shooting jumpers so they sag off him and other defenders just stay with their men. Once Brooklyn gets into their halfcourt offense, Simmons has no place. Simmons standing on the outside will allow his man to help or double because he isn't a threat to shoot when the ball gets kicked to him which allows the defense time to recover. The Sixers tried him moving under the basket and posting up but he isn't really great at that either. His best offense is in transition where he's unstoppable. He also is an absolute zero at the end of games because he's scared to touch the ball for fear of getting fouled and having to shoot foul shots. Having him and Drummond in there in the final 4 minutes of a close game would be a bad idea for Brooklyn.


If Drummond is playing major minutes, that's a fail on the coaching staff.

The ideal plan for Simmons would be to play him next to Blake or LMA. Guys that moderately space the floor. Ben could be the roll man / chill near the basket. Dribble handoffs with Kyrie / Curry / Patty / Harris will be big when defenses ignore him.

The problem with Philly IMO was that Embiid is the best post guy in the league. It never made sense for Simmons to be hanging around near the basket or trying to post up or do any of that stuff. Embiid trying to space the floor for Ben is a big W for the defense. With the Nets, our best players are perimeter guys. The fit is a little cleaner.

He did tend to go invisible with Philly and a lot of the reasons were mental (scared of shooting FTs esp). Should be interesting to see if some time off and a different environment helps with that.
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Re: WOJ: Harden, Millsap for Simmons, Curry, Drummons, Two #1's 

Post#254 » by Snotbubbles » Fri Feb 11, 2022 4:42 pm

MGrand15 wrote:
Snotbubbles wrote:
akhan786 wrote:I never wanted Harden on the team (I have personally hated watching him play for years) so I’m glad I don’t have to root for him anymore.

Simmons is a perfect combo with Kyrie and KD so that the third star isn’t expected to take late game half court shots. He can bring the ball up, run the fast break, and focus on being DPOY so that KD/Kyrie save energy to close late in the postseason


Sounds exactly how the Sixers tried to use him. However, you aren't going to take the ball out of Irving's hand to give it to Simmons for drive and dish opportunities mostly because teams have figured out that Simmons isn't shooting jumpers so they sag off him and other defenders just stay with their men. Once Brooklyn gets into their halfcourt offense, Simmons has no place. Simmons standing on the outside will allow his man to help or double because he isn't a threat to shoot when the ball gets kicked to him which allows the defense time to recover. The Sixers tried him moving under the basket and posting up but he isn't really great at that either. His best offense is in transition where he's unstoppable. He also is an absolute zero at the end of games because he's scared to touch the ball for fear of getting fouled and having to shoot foul shots. Having him and Drummond in there in the final 4 minutes of a close game would be a bad idea for Brooklyn.


If Drummond is playing major minutes, that's a fail on the coaching staff.

The ideal plan for Simmons would be to play him next to Blake or LMA. Guys that moderately space the floor. Ben could be the roll man / chill near the basket. Dribble handoffs with Kyrie / Curry / Patty / Harris will be big when defenses ignore him.

The problem with Philly IMO was that Embiid is the best post guy in the league. It never made sense for Simmons to be hanging around near the basket or trying to post up or do any of that stuff. Embiid trying to space the floor for Ben is a big W for the defense. With the Nets, our best players are perimeter guys. The fit is a little cleaner.

He did tend to go invisible with Philly and a lot of the reasons were mental (scared of shooting FTs esp). Should be interesting to see if some time off and a different environment helps with that.


Simmons and Embiid definitely didn't fit. Problem was/is Simmons kills your spacing because teams don't respect him in the halfcourt.
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Re: WOJ: Harden, Millsap for Simmons, Curry, Drummons, Two #1's 

Post#255 » by MrDollarBills » Fri Feb 11, 2022 4:56 pm

MGrand15 wrote:I don't mind this trade but Marks really failed by not making another move this deadline. The team is still really unbalanced unless we're 100% healthy. That's a dumb thing to bank on.

Kyrie / Patty
Harris / Curry / Cam
KD / Brown
Simmons / Edwards
Blake / LMA / Claxton

That's a potentially great squad but we need Harris healthy + an average wing shooter + figure out our center mess. I can't believe we have 5 centers. We also need to cut James Johnson ASAP. If he's a good locker room guy, then make sure he's not in the rotation. We don't have the shooting to make up for his weaknesses and his defense is not good at all.


We cut a decent roleplaying wing yesterday while we have a complete logjam at C. I am still livid over that.
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Re: WOJ: Harden, Millsap for Simmons, Curry, Drummons, Two #1's 

Post#256 » by TheNetsFan » Fri Feb 11, 2022 5:32 pm

Pablo Escobar wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Jay555 wrote:Prok still thinks Kyrie and Harden have no issues.



Read on Twitter


It was obvious that they had beef.

We're going to probably hear some wild stuff over the next few days.


Kyrie has caused problem everywhere he has gone. Hopefully he leaves in the offseason as well.

Is anybody paying attention to the comments and tone of KD, Mills and Griffin? Griffin is the most blunt and transparent of all. Harden was not on good terms with the team. To blame Kyrie when a number of veteran leaders had beef with Harden is ridiculous.

My gut says Harden was used to being the center of the team and having all the influence with Morey, and he didn't have that with Marks. KD has Marks' ear. I would not be surprised if Embiid becomes disgruntled in a couple years, because of Harden's influence over Morey.
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Re: WOJ: Harden, Millsap for Simmons, Curry, Drummons, Two #1's 

Post#257 » by TheNetsFan » Fri Feb 11, 2022 5:33 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
MGrand15 wrote:I don't mind this trade but Marks really failed by not making another move this deadline. The team is still really unbalanced unless we're 100% healthy. That's a dumb thing to bank on.

Kyrie / Patty
Harris / Curry / Cam
KD / Brown
Simmons / Edwards
Blake / LMA / Claxton

That's a potentially great squad but we need Harris healthy + an average wing shooter + figure out our center mess. I can't believe we have 5 centers. We also need to cut James Johnson ASAP. If he's a good locker room guy, then make sure he's not in the rotation. We don't have the shooting to make up for his weaknesses and his defense is not good at all.


We cut a decent roleplaying wing yesterday while we have a complete logjam at C. I am still livid over that.

One of them will go when we have to convert Edwards.
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Re: WOJ: Harden, Millsap for Simmons, Curry, Drummons, Two #1's 

Post#258 » by MrDollarBills » Fri Feb 11, 2022 5:44 pm

TheNetsFan wrote:
Pablo Escobar wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
It was obvious that they had beef.

We're going to probably hear some wild stuff over the next few days.


Kyrie has caused problem everywhere he has gone. Hopefully he leaves in the offseason as well.

Is anybody paying attention to the comments and tone of KD, Mills and Griffin? Griffin is the most blunt and transparent of all. Harden was not on good terms with the team. To blame Kyrie when a number of veteran leaders had beef with Harden is ridiculous.

My gut says Harden was used to being the center of the team and having all the influence with Morey, and he didn't have that with Marks. KD has Marks' ear. I would not be surprised if Embiid becomes disgruntled in a couple years, because of Harden's influence over Morey.


I don't think that Kyrie's status has helped the team, but it was clear that Harden had gotten to the point where he was sucking the air out of the room. For KD, Mills and Blake to say what they said makes it clear.

And it also makes Nash look like a buffoon with his comments about Harden.
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Re: WOJ: Harden, Millsap for Simmons, Curry, Drummons, Two #1's 

Post#259 » by sweetlou23 » Fri Feb 11, 2022 6:07 pm

Ben is being criminally undervalued right now. I suspect that this will change in short order. Ben is a highly skilled, 6' 11'' physically gifted, ultra athletic (possibly the league's fastest player), high bball iq, potentally dominant two way player for the next 8 years. the sixers better win the championship in the next two years otherwise the process failed.
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Re: WOJ: Harden, Millsap for Simmons, Curry, Drummons, Two #1's 

Post#260 » by MGrand15 » Fri Feb 11, 2022 6:11 pm

TheNetsFan wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
MGrand15 wrote:I don't mind this trade but Marks really failed by not making another move this deadline. The team is still really unbalanced unless we're 100% healthy. That's a dumb thing to bank on.

Kyrie / Patty
Harris / Curry / Cam
KD / Brown
Simmons / Edwards
Blake / LMA / Claxton

That's a potentially great squad but we need Harris healthy + an average wing shooter + figure out our center mess. I can't believe we have 5 centers. We also need to cut James Johnson ASAP. If he's a good locker room guy, then make sure he's not in the rotation. We don't have the shooting to make up for his weaknesses and his defense is not good at all.


We cut a decent roleplaying wing yesterday while we have a complete logjam at C. I am still livid over that.

One of them will go when we have to convert Edwards.


Or Edwards will go too :lol:

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