Official NBA COVID Protocol thread (please read the OP)

[Edrees]

The logic for demanding Kyrie get vaccinated was a heck of a lot stronger before the variants that seem to infect vaccinated and vaccinated at similar rates existed. At this point it's almost entirely about the health of the individual, and their individual choice. If it doesn't show a very significant rate of protection from catching the current variants, then the risk an unvaccinated individual poses to others becomes negligible. We have ample evidence of transmission from vaccinated to vaccinated people. The idea that Kyrie might get sicker because he's not vaccinated also poses little risk because of how often they are tested and the fact that if he is in fact sicker he would start to show symptoms.

At this point people are mad at Kyrie for making his own choices about his own body, which is unfortunate in my opinion.

I mean, people got mad at Shaq all the time for healing injuries only during the 82 game season. Lakers fans always demanded him to use the summer to heal his injuries but he didn't do it. He would get his surgery at the end of the off season so he could enjoy his summer, then use the first 2 months of the season to recover from injuries and fans got mad at him for it and often made demands for him to do it during the summer.

Not sure why anyone act like fans telling players to do with their bodies because it benefits their favorite sports team is novel behavior. In fact, I would argue that the vast majority of NBA fans think fans were in the right for thinking Shaq should have done his surgery early in the off season so he could start the season healthy.

Fans are mad at Kyrie for not making personal sacrifice for the sake of the team. His personal body choices directly impact the team's success. Not sure why you think fans aren't in the right when they want a player to do what will benefit the team, and Kyrie being available for games benefits their favorite sports team.

[MotownMadness]

Why would anyone think that Harden is scared of Kyrie not being vaccinated? He's not. He was pissed that Kyrie's ignorance and selfishness was costing the team games.

I don't like Harden, and I think his brand of basketball contributed to making the NBA less fun, but I absolutely get where he's coming from here. I'd be livid if I was on an NBA team and one of the team's three best players could only play in half the games because of a selfish decision, and even more so if that selfish decision contributed directly to a ten game losing streak. Everyone else on the roster did what they needed to, got the shot, and is out on the court when they're healthy enough to play. Maybe some of them didn't like getting it, but they did it anyway because they're team players. Kyrie isn't a team player. He only cares about himself and it's costing his team games.

I think that's more selfish on your part for telling someone what they have to do medically for a basketball game.

Assuming he's not afraid of it effecting his own health like you say but is just a basketball decision.

It's not selfish if you want him to do it for the sake of everyone else on the team and for the sake of all the fans of the team (not just yourrelf) You're telling 1 person to do something for the benefit of hundreds if not thousands. (not talking about covid immunity, talking about the Nets being a better team, which benefits all nets coaches, players, and fans)

For example, if Kawhi was injured on the Clippers, and wasn't taking the proper steps to get his knee healed and back into shape, would you be against fans telling him (medically) what he needs to do to get his knee back to health so he can return to the court? Would you be against the principal of fans wanting him to take the proper drugs that people take when healing injuries after surgery?

Kinda hard to compare rehab to what we are discussing here. I mean I'm in physical therapy for workers comp on my knee but that's really not the same thing.

[Edrees]

I think that's more selfish on your part for telling someone what they have to do medically for a basketball game.

Assuming he's not afraid of it effecting his own health like you say but is just a basketball decision.

It's not selfish if you want him to do it for the sake of everyone else on the team and for the sake of all the fans of the team (not just yourrelf) You're telling 1 person to do something for the benefit of hundreds if not thousands. (not talking about covid immunity, talking about the Nets being a better team, which benefits all nets coaches, players, and fans)

For example, if Kawhi was injured on the Clippers, and wasn't taking the proper steps to get his knee healed and back into shape, would you be against fans telling him (medically) what he needs to do to get his knee back to health so he can return to the court? Would you be against the principal of fans wanting him to take the proper drugs that people take when healing injuries after surgery?

Kinda hard to compare rehab to what we are discussing here. I mean I'm in physical therapy for workers comp on my knee but that's really not the same thing.

I wouldn't make any analogy to your situation. The world of sports is different. I was strictly speaking about rehab in anticipation for returning to play on an NBA team.

[KrAzY3]

I wouldn't make any analogy to your situation. The world of sports is different.

You are however, comparing this to when Shaq (same could be said about Pippen) chose to have surgery. That's not really the same situation either is it?

Kyrie made it clear that this is in part a political statement. He doesn't believe in forced vaccines. How we feel about the particular choice, and whether or not we respect someone for standing up up for what they believe in are two different things in my opinion. This isn't just a sports thing though, the only reason Kyrie can't play is because of what is being enforced in his state. It isn't being enforced throughout much of the country either, so clearly it's not cut and dry that things are being done correctly there.

So, this isn't just a sports choice. Kyrie obviously has issues and questionable behavior, but we should at least acknowledge why he's saying that he's chosen to do this. It's his choice about his body, but he's elaborated further to make it clear this to him is about more than sports or just his health. So, it doesn't compare to someone whose choice had nothing to do with that sort of thing does it?

One could make a comparison to players kneeling, or Ali refusing the draft. These were pretty unpopular actions by the way and had negative reactions as well. There clearly is an element of political activism here we need to take into account.

[MotownMadness]

If my kid was in a school which didn't have a vax and mask mandate I just might do something "selfish" to protect myself.

My kids have the paper mask mandate, there's no reason for them to get vaccinated though in my opinion. Not even sure you can use science to support why I should make them get it either.

If you're vaccinated then you have nothing to worry about, aside from still catching Covid I guess.

Well, if you don't catch Covid you can't transmit Covid, and the vaccine helps prevent transmission.

And vax'd people can still catch Covid and while the odds are a lot better, there's still a chance to suffer complications from Covid or even die.

So, alas, the correct answer is to manage exposure, get vaxxed, and to wear masks.

Of course, we all take risks every day of our lives, which is fine. My problem is when other people want to take risks with my life.

Sure, I also don't like people running around having random sex spreading STDs but not sure I have the power to stop it.

I also don't like that I hardly leave my house and everyone else effected my life with covid being social animals and bringing it to my front door either. Which is now apparently my fault.

[MotownMadness]

Alright no more quoting me cause I won't respond any further on this subject, I swear this time lol

[nikster]

You guys do know plenty of drugs get approved and cause damage resulting in huge lawsuits right? Sure you can trust the science (do sick of hearing that word every day lol) but that don't mean you're just 100% safe.

How many of those cases occur after billions of people have received the medication and there have been literally hundreds of studies from all over the world from every level (big pharma, government, universities etc..)? How many of those cases did a side effect pop up over a year ore more after the last dose of the medication? (the answer to both those questions is zero)

Well they must not of known a whole lot about it considering everyone is still spreading it around vaccinated.

I mean can you show me where they said you still catch covid before everyone started taking it? I don't think everyone would have been real thrilled taking it had they originally known it doesn't even prevent you from catching it at all.

Now we'll just gloss over that and change the narrative to it's less dangerous with it. But I would imagine at this point more people have died since the vaccine has been out then before.

I could be wrong on that so you can correct me there if need be but I haven't noticed a slow down at all.

It did prevent cases and spread with the previous variants. But in the original studies Pfizer etc... did not look at prevention/reduction in spread, they got approved based on reductions in severe cases/death. They were explicit in not making claims about reduction because that wasnt an endpoint in their trials. It was follow up studies that showed reduced chance of getting infected, and reduced spread once you were infected. Then Omicron changed things and it appears the vaccines do not provide much if any reduction in spread (Omicron also changed things for those with natural immunity as well). The vaccine remains to be 90% effective against preventing severe cases with Omicron, which is the most important thing.

[JonFromVA]

My kids have the paper mask mandate, there's no reason for them to get vaccinated though in my opinion. Not even sure you can use science to support why I should make them get it either.

If you're vaccinated then you have nothing to worry about, aside from still catching Covid I guess.

Well, if you don't catch Covid you can't transmit Covid, and the vaccine helps prevent transmission.

And vax'd people can still catch Covid and while the odds are a lot better, there's still a chance to suffer complications from Covid or even die.

So, alas, the correct answer is to manage exposure, get vaxxed, and to wear masks.

Of course, we all take risks every day of our lives, which is fine. My problem is when other people want to take risks with my life.

Sure, I also don't like people running around having random sex spreading STDs but not sure I have the power to stop it.

I also don't like that I hardly leave my house and everyone else effected my life with covid being social animals and bringing it to my front door either. Which is now apparently my fault.

You may have misread what I said?

It doesn't bother me if other people are willing to take more risks than I am. I feel it's a fundamental part of our freedom that we should be able to do what we want right up until the point it starts causing problems for other people (alas some people ignore that second part).

[JonFromVA]

How many of those cases occur after billions of people have received the medication and there have been literally hundreds of studies from all over the world from every level (big pharma, government, universities etc..)? How many of those cases did a side effect pop up over a year ore more after the last dose of the medication? (the answer to both those questions is zero)

Well they must not of known a whole lot about it considering everyone is still spreading it around vaccinated.

I mean can you show me where they said you still catch covid before everyone started taking it? I don't think everyone would have been real thrilled taking it had they originally known it doesn't even prevent you from catching it at all.

Now we'll just gloss over that and change the narrative to it's less dangerous with it. But I would imagine at this point more people have died since the vaccine has been out then before.

I could be wrong on that so you can correct me there if need be but I haven't noticed a slow down at all.

It did prevent cases and spread with the previous variants. But in the original studies Pfizer etc... did not look at prevention/reduction in spread, they got approved based on reductions in severe cases/death. They were explicit in not making claims about reduction because that wasnt an endpoint in their trials. It was follow up studies that showed reduced chance of getting infected, and reduced spread once you were infected. Then Omicron changed things and it appears the vaccines do not provide much if any reduction in spread (Omicron also changed things for those with natural immunity as well). The vaccine remains to be 90% effective against preventing severe cases with Omicron, which is the most important thing.

90% still sucks, but I understand the data is far from perfect.

[Onlytimewilltel]

Well I don't think he should have to make any medical decision based on anyone else's feelings. Unless you really think he's putting their lives in danger which clearly it makes no difference if they're all vaccinated and seem to all catch covid easily anyways.

His unvaccinated status changes nothing regarding anyone else's health.

It’s not about impact others health in this case. It’s about being available to play in games. Lol Christ try to keep up dude

I'm trying, but the goalposts keep moving

Lol you kept moving it. The guy kept telling you over and over that he is talking about impact on the team from missing games and nothing else, and you kept bringing up the stupid Covid health related impacts and that it’s safe etc unrelated to what he was even saying. Who cares lol the whole discussion about harden being upset that kyrie gets to be a part time player was what was discussed. Not that harden is “scared to play with kyrie because he wasn’t vaccinated” that’s beyond ridiculous. Harden loves that body to body with strippers he doesn’t care about Covid, he was pissed that Kyrie was a part time player. It is what it is.

[GopherIt!]

Imagine having an ego and brain that thinks you just know better than all these scientists and world leaders who created and pushed a global vaccination process, key word - global. you might call me a stupid sheep, but I admit I am not the smartest guy and there are people far smarter than me who know better, especially in a field like, I dont know, medical science?

Politics rule academia and have done so for a decades. Multinational corporations, gov’t bureaucracies, military contractors and wealthy donors have woven their way deep into the university fabric. Research is always dictated by these entities because that is where the money is. You have to be very careful how you choose your battles. Not towing the line can derail your career and get you blacklisted in a hurry.

[nikster]

Well they must not of known a whole lot about it considering everyone is still spreading it around vaccinated.

I mean can you show me where they said you still catch covid before everyone started taking it? I don't think everyone would have been real thrilled taking it had they originally known it doesn't even prevent you from catching it at all.

Now we'll just gloss over that and change the narrative to it's less dangerous with it. But I would imagine at this point more people have died since the vaccine has been out then before.

I could be wrong on that so you can correct me there if need be but I haven't noticed a slow down at all.

It did prevent cases and spread with the previous variants. But in the original studies Pfizer etc... did not look at prevention/reduction in spread, they got approved based on reductions in severe cases/death. They were explicit in not making claims about reduction because that wasnt an endpoint in their trials. It was follow up studies that showed reduced chance of getting infected, and reduced spread once you were infected. Then Omicron changed things and it appears the vaccines do not provide much if any reduction in spread (Omicron also changed things for those with natural immunity as well). The vaccine remains to be 90% effective against preventing severe cases with Omicron, which is the most important thing.

90% still sucks, but I understand the data is far from perfect.

You think 90% efficacy at preventing deaths/hospitalization sucks?

[MrBigShot]

I just want Kyrie to come and say what exactly he thinks is going to happen if he gets the vaccine. What crazy conspiracy theory is on his mind.

It doesn't take a "crazy conspiracy theory" to make one weary about putting something into their body that was rushed to market. And the people that are saying to take it, it's safe, are the very people making money off of this drug. Have your own opinion. Fine. But to make others that don't share your opinion out to be crazy is just straight trash.

You are 100% correct. I think those concerns are overblown if you look at the data, but the vaccine does have a higher incidence of adverse reactions than vaccines that don't go through an expedited process.

As a matter of a fact, I think he should be allowed to play and just get tested regularly, but the mandate wont allow for that. I just happen to believe it is far more likely that Kyrie has a conspiracy theory in mind than concern about the chance of a (very very low likelihood) adverse reaction, given his history of spewing non-sense like the flat earth stuff.

I don't think its unfair to be expected to explain your thoughts if you don't want to get vaxxed. Guys like Wiggins, Isaac, Beal ect...came out and said more or less why they were hesitant. If Kyrie is so adamant about this I don't see why he wont come out and say why beyond just "its my choice".

[JonFromVA]

It did prevent cases and spread with the previous variants. But in the original studies Pfizer etc... did not look at prevention/reduction in spread, they got approved based on reductions in severe cases/death. They were explicit in not making claims about reduction because that wasnt an endpoint in their trials. It was follow up studies that showed reduced chance of getting infected, and reduced spread once you were infected. Then Omicron changed things and it appears the vaccines do not provide much if any reduction in spread (Omicron also changed things for those with natural immunity as well). The vaccine remains to be 90% effective against preventing severe cases with Omicron, which is the most important thing.

90% still sucks, but I understand the data is far from perfect.

You think 90% efficacy at preventing deaths/hospitalization sucks?

Absolutely. That's a great rate for free throws, but not for matters of life or death.

[theoilslick]

Imagine having an ego and brain that thinks you just know better than all these scientists and world leaders who created and pushed a global vaccination process, key word - global. you might call me a stupid sheep, but I admit I am not the smartest guy and there are people far smarter than me who know better, especially in a field like, I dont know, medical science?

Politics rule academia and have done so for a decades. Multinational corporations, gov’t bureaucracies, military contractors and wealthy donors have woven their way deep into the university fabric. Research is always dictated by these entities because that is where the money is. You have to be very careful how you choose your battles. Not towing the line can derail your career and get you blacklisted in a hurry.

Funny, academia in general exposes politicians for their anti-intelligent arguments. I know it’s hard to believe, but donors are not making kickbacks to universities in order to indoctrinate the education. Most academia involves meticulous research, peer-review and published articles for open critique. Faculty members have a disciplined devotion to their field of education and publishment. And I know it’s hard to believe, but published research is worldwide and shared to discuss.

Do you really think every tenure professor with a raise following a donation says, “The donator’s kind gift makes me want to spread [insert bipartisan party] to my students”? Profs have idiosyncratic traits and are considerably smarter than the average person.

And while the bureaucratic government irritates the hell out of laws and taxes, if we didn’t have them, we’d all be living by tribes in a Mad Max world.

[Lalouie]

countries are now treating omicron as endemic,,,like a flu.

omicron has killed delta

the usa, because so many were anti-vaxx, has actually been ahead of the herd immunity curve compared to other countries

how ironic

nyc's KILLIN' IT. we're down to august levels. i think the nets will get their wish

[GopherIt!]

[]
Funny, academia in general exposes politicians for their anti-intelligent arguments. I know it’s hard to believe, but donors are not making kickbacks to universities in order to indoctrinate the education...

...Do you really think every tenure professor with a raise following a donation says, “The donator’s kind gift makes me want to spread [insert bipartisan party] to my students”? Profs have idiosyncratic traits and are considerably smarter than the average person .

Most politicians are greedy fools.
You are missing the mark on what I am talking about. I am speaking from a defense contractor/ us agency / foreign agency background.

Pm me. We may agree more than u think. I will not discuss this further here.

[theoilslick]

Most politicians are greedy fools.

That we agree on.

You are missing the mark on what I am talking about. I am speaking from a defense contractor/ us agency / foreign agency background.

With our anonymous sports forum I think references or citations have authenticity and authority over personal credentials here...with no insult to your real experience I mean.

[xdrta+]

And then there was one. D. Gafford, Wizards, is the only player in health and safety protocols as of 2/12.

[MindState]

And then there was one. D. Gafford, Wizards, is the only player in health and safety protocols as of 2/12.

Mask mandate is ending in California tomorrow. Cali has been in masks since march 2020 and has been the most restrictive state in the country since the pandemic.

Thats all you need to know to realize we are exiting this pandemic.