Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 3

[eddieheatfan]

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SOON…..thanks for keeping Duncan, Pat

Take your butt back to Utah, wade .
We don't want your washed goods.

yeah no thanks i wouldnt trade herro for anything even with his flaws which are just ball handling issues.

the heat needs the 3point shooters to get their offense going because jimmy and bam cant always stay hot

[contract]

This fanbase is weird. We're all alone in 1st place in the East with 26 games to go, and some fans are unhappy because our coach won't alter our style of play to get our 3rd string Center more minutes?

That's **** weird!

We're sharing the ball. We're playing defense. And we're not even hitting on all cylinders yet. This is the best team we've had since LeBron left town!

Do you also side with Spo that Bam should be nothing more than a guy who gets Duncan Robinson open for 3s?

If not, then welcome to the club - a club that includes Pat Riley.

Pat Riley also thinks we should use 2-big lineups a bit more often and we've been seeing that lately.

Just know that these aren't fringe ideas, we're not alone, and we've got good company.

Pat has always wanted to play big because that's what he did. That's the game he liked to play. Pat was known to start Ewing at C along with Oakley at PF and 6'10 Charles Smith at SF. With the Heat he wanted to team up Zo, PJ, and Howard.

But the game has changed and he's not the coach.

[somerandomdude]

You know nothing's gonna happen when ChefTrille is pushing the agenda.

That guy is wrong about everything.

[DayofMourning]

Donovan Mitchell!?!?! Oh muh gurd!!!

Seriously though, don't really care.

[somerandomdude]

Spoiler:

This fanbase is weird. We're all alone in 1st place in the East with 26 games to go, and some fans are unhappy because our coach won't alter our style of play to get our 3rd string Center more minutes?

That's **** weird!

We're sharing the ball. We're playing defense. And we're not even hitting on all cylinders yet. This is the best team we've had since LeBron left town!

Do you also side with Spo that Bam should be nothing more than a guy who gets Duncan Robinson open for 3s?

If not, then welcome to the club - a club that includes Pat Riley.

Pat Riley also thinks we should use 2-big lineups a bit more often and we've been seeing that lately.

Just know that these aren't fringe ideas, we're not alone, and we've got good company.

Pat has always wanted to play big because that's what he did. That's the game he liked to play. Pat was known to start Ewing at C along with Oakley at PF and 6'10 Charles Smith at SF. With the Heat he wanted to team up Zo, PJ, and Howard.

But the game has changed and he's not the coach.

The game hasn't changed by much. I've already discussed this in length, but will just say to go look at the Bucks, Raps, Lakers, Cavs, Spurs, and Mavs. In the Small Ball era, all those teams won a title by playing big PF/Cs.

Even the Warriors' first title, they had Andrew Bogut starting.

The change to the game is just more up-tempo and 3pt shooting; Small Ball hasn't won anything unless that team had 2 All Time Greats and a HoFer in their prime, which has less to do with Small Ball and more about being stacked with talent.

I also want to add that Small Ball isn't some new invention, either. It's been around for a very long time and it's just never been something you can win with in the playoffs without an absolutely stacked roster.

And you're right that RIley''s not the coach; he's the guy who decides if Erik Spoelstra is the coach, and he's the reason why Spoelstra is even in the NBA right now and has had any success.

With that said, Spo deserves a chance to prove his style can win it all (without LeBron+Bosh+Wade) and, as a Heat fan, I'm supporting him because Spo's success = Heat's success.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

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SOON…..thanks for keeping Duncan, Pat

Take your butt back to Utah, wade .
We don't want your washed goods.

yeah no thanks i wouldnt trade herro for anything even with his flaws which are just ball handling issues.

the heat needs the 3point shooters to get their offense going because jimmy and bam cant always stay hot

You gotta be **** kidding me.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

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Oh **** listen to this lol

[3ammy3uck3ts]

If you wouldn’t trade Herro for Mitchell you shouldn’t be allowed to talk basketball

[harlem_ball]

Spoiler:

Do you also side with Spo that Bam should be nothing more than a guy who gets Duncan Robinson open for 3s?

If not, then welcome to the club - a club that includes Pat Riley.

Pat Riley also thinks we should use 2-big lineups a bit more often and we've been seeing that lately.

Just know that these aren't fringe ideas, we're not alone, and we've got good company.

Pat has always wanted to play big because that's what he did. That's the game he liked to play. Pat was known to start Ewing at C along with Oakley at PF and 6'10 Charles Smith at SF. With the Heat he wanted to team up Zo, PJ, and Howard.

But the game has changed and he's not the coach.

The game hasn't changed by much. I've already discussed this in length, but will just say to go look at the Bucks, Raps, Lakers, Cavs, Spurs, and Mavs. In the Small Ball era, all those teams won a title by playing big PF/Cs.

Even the Warriors' first title, they had Andrew Bogut starting.

The change to the game is just more up-tempo and 3pt shooting; Small Ball hasn't won anything unless that team had 2 All Time Greats and a HoFer in their prime, which has less to do with Small Ball and more about being stacked with talent.

I also want to add that Small Ball isn't some new invention, either. It's been around for a very long time and it's just never been something you can win with in the playoffs without an absolutely stacked roster.

And you're right that RIley''s not the coach; he's the guy who decides if Erik Spoelstra is the coach, and he's the reason why Spoelstra is even in the NBA right now and has had any success.

With that said, Spo deserves a chance to prove his style can win it all (without LeBron+Bosh+Wade) and, as a Heat fan, I'm supporting for him because Spo's success = Heat's success.

Totally with you on this. Hopefully Spo can get it done. Yurtz and Potter seem like perfect bigs for this system.

[oreon]

Small ball doesn't win ? Lakers exclusively went small in the finals. Go back and check the per min numbers, Dwight played only 11 mins per game and mostly when AD was off the floor. And GSW won playing small. Even last year if one of Harden or Irving was healthy the Nets would have beat Bucks. Durant almost did it by himself.
And yeah those teams had all time HOF players. But this is how this works. Talent wins most of the time regardless of style. On occasion you got teams that win based on coaching and good chemistry like Dallas and Spurs recently. .
I know when we loose, people are gonna be on the small ball thing again. But if we loose it will be because the other team has Giannis, Embiid or Durant and we don't. It can't be when small ball wins its talent and when going big wins it's the system.

[eddieheatfan]

If you wouldn’t trade Herro for Mitchell you shouldn’t be allowed to talk basketball

why would you need another guard when you have lowry,gabe, dipo,guy already filling the roster at that position


granted mitchell stats are pretty good but i dont think he has much upside left since what you currently see its what you get. with herro though the kid is still growing and learning. remember he was a rookie not too long ago at the age of 19?


also doesnt ppl here claim that our weakness is at the PF position??


yeah his numbers are great, i dont hate him but hero could be something really special down the road. i would wait til lowry retires in order to go after another guard like mitchell. my concern are potential chemistry issues too since its already happening in utah

[carnageta]

If you have the chance of putting together a team consisting of Butler, Bam, Mitchell and Lowry, you do it 9/10 times.

I love Tyler but he may never be as good as Donavan currently is, and with the aging of Lowry and Butler we have to go all in right now. Besides, we all know how players end up having career years in Miami. Mitchell in a Heat uniform is an MVP candidate.

The only way I wouldn't consider it is if either a) Herro has an insanely impressive close to the season, or b) Oladipo returns to near former-self.

[eddieheatfan]

If you have the chance of putting together a team consisting of Butler, Bam, Mitchell and Lowry, you do it 9/10 times.

I love Tyler but he may never be as good as Donavan currently is, and with the aging of Lowry and Butler we have to go all in right now. Besides, we all know how players end up having career years in Miami. Mitchell in a Heat uniform is an MVP candidate.

The only way I wouldn't consider it is if either a) Herro has an insanely impressive close to the season, or b) Oladipo returns to near former-self.

do you know this for a fact that herro will never get better as a player.

what riley said about herro when he got him adter the draft pick? that he had good basketball fundamentals, the thing that is messing him up is spo trying to convert him in to a pg which is not its forte, as a spot up shooter and penetrator the kid has lots of promise


like i have said mitchel is already having locker room issues with the jazz who is not a bad team by themselves. locker room probs are a red flag to me because it tends to destroy trust and cohesion between team members.

right now this team like each other and that's pretty good for team chemistry and what have you.


i like the guy but prospects like herro doesnt come often. if the heat trades him they will ending up in regretting it. mark my words

[somerandomdude]

Mitchell is one of the players I'd consider trading Herro for, but I have a question for those quick to pull the trigger:

Do you believe you're going to get the same production that he's getting in Utah?

If so: who's production is he going to cut into; Bam or Jimmy's? Because I doubt Mitchell is willing to come off the bench, where Herro is getting a chunk of his production. On top of that, having a 20ppg scorer off the bench has been one of our biggest strengths this season.

If not: aren't we just wasting his primary talent? He's not like Chris Bosh where he contributes in other ways. And he's not LeBron or Wade, which would justify putting Bam in the Chris Bosh role; (Aggressive) Bam is a better scorer than Donovan, as is Jimmy.

----

In the end, I do think Herro will evolve into a Mitchell type player and their age-to-age stats are extremely similar, with Herro edging Donovan in more categories.

Some other arguments in favor of Herro and thoughts on stuff that will probably get brought up:

Donovan is 6'1, while Herro is 6'5. We've already seen how Gabe Vincent (6'3) is the target of mismatches in the post, and Donovan won't have Rudy Gobert/Whiteside ready to help in those situations.

Speaking of Gobert/Whiteside, having two of the league's best shotblockers covers up Mitchell's shortcomings on defense. Herro isn't a good perimeter defender by any means, but don't think Mitchell is any better, and many people will tell you he's not good a good defender at all.

Some people will think we're selling high on Herro, but you would've sold low the past two seasons if you had thought that, and Herro skeptics claimed we were selling high back then.

There's also salary/tax implications. Next season, Donovan will earn $30mil while Herro will still be locked in for $5mil/yr and may even take less money than Donovan when his contract is up.

As far as win now, having Herro locked for $5mil next season gives you far more flexibility than Donovan. When it does make sense to trade Herro for Donovan Mitchell, Donovan will be 27 years old and Herro will be 24-25yrs old. Both are still in great position age-wise, but Herro's production should be around what we're seeing with Donovan's today, while still giving us more years than Donovan (note: there's still potential for Donovan to do better at 27-30).

----

That's enough for me, you guys go at it, I'm happy with whatever Riley decides to do.

[harlem_ball]

Small ball doesn't win ? Lakers exclusively went small in the finals. Go back and check the per min numbers, Dwight played only 11 mins per game and mostly when AD was off the floor. And GSW won playing small. Even last year if one of Harden or Irving was healthy the Nets would have beat Bucks. Durant almost did it by himself.
And yeah those teams had all time HOF players. But this is how this works. Talent wins most of the time regardless of style. On occasion you got teams that win based on coaching and good chemistry like Dallas and Spurs recently. .
I know when we loose, people are gonna be on the small ball thing again. But if we loose it will be because the other team has Giannis, Embiid or Durant and we don't. It can't be when small ball wins its talent and when going big wins it's the system.

Cmon, man. AD and Durant are 6'10 and 7 ft by themselves. Bigger than Heat lineups.

[Riftur]

I really think paring Goran with Herro for our second unit would really work well. Oladipo is the wildcard in all this. Who knows what type of player he will be now. The 1 thing I know for sure is that what Riley does is the right move. I am also very surprised at how little respect people are showing Spo right now. It is really hard to experiment with playing 2 bigs, building chemistry and a strategy right in the middle of the season with Championship goals. I think more will happen after the all-star break.

[BenoUdrihFTL]

1) How many wins will the Heat have in the 2021-2022 season? (back to a 82 game season)
52-30

Currently 36-20, a win% on pace for 53 wins but we have a great chance of eclipsing that with 17 of 26 remaining at home (we have an 18-6 home record; best in the East and 3rd best in the NBA) and Dipo expected soon. My 52 win prediction is actually way off because I assumed Yimmy and Bam would've combined to play more than just 61% of our games, which they haven't. I knew Lowry was a guaranteed 50 wins but I still underestimated just how impactful the guy is; we've played at a 54 win pace with him in the lineup and that includes MANY games without Yimmy and/or Bam and all the covid bullchit

Would've liked to have added a bigger wing to take some PF minutes but I'm nonetheless very happy with the roster we have right now. And who knows, perhaps Markieff will come back and solve that problem because a quality version of Markieff is really a perfect fit for what we need. The Duncan situation is disappointing, but with Dipo looming we really have the luxury of minimizing Duncan's role if he isn't producing. Dipo is also big enough to play F in today's NBA, so expect some smallball lineups with Dipo and Caleb at F which -- though undersized -- would be one hell of a frenetic combo to throw at teams off the bench. But hopefully Markieff comes back and we can mainly stick to using Dipo at G and Caleb at SF. In that scenario one of Duncan or Strus would be squeezed out and ideally we could just base that decision on which one has the hot hand

As for Yurt, I could see him being used situationally in certain matchups like vs Brook Lopez or Jarrett Allen, but outside of that I don't see Spo really incorporating him too much this season. Bam is our starting C and that' not changing, and Dedmon is a pretty good backup C all things considered

[kidco2]

If you wouldn’t trade Herro for Mitchell you shouldn’t be allowed to talk basketball

Agreed, they should be running the organisation instead.

[heater4life]

Freeing up a pick plus having young talent and depth to trade has given Miami flexibility moving forward. Whether it’s Mitchell, Beal, or the next talented player that becomes disgruntled.

[HEATVols865]

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Jimmy welcomes being coached by a real head coach


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