Let's talk about just how bad that KP trade was

[slick_watts]

fwiw, dallas seems like the sort of place where bertans could get back on track. he had a great year in 2019-20 before he got paid.

[SecondTake]

Cuban gave trunkster (a suitcase company) a 28 million dollar valuation , what makes anyone think he can run a good bball operation these days?

So a suitcase company can't be worth 28m? Samsonite says hi?

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[prophet_of_rage]

I still don't know why the Mavs made that trade.

Luka and KP do not get along.

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[mabundo_nagumbe]

I still don't know why the Mavs made that trade.

Luka and KP do not get along.

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Source? Because I heard the opposite. Unless you have any credible proof or source, that's just gossip. It's way more likely they did it because it's easier to move two less expensive contracts than a guy who earns 30m plus and he can't stay healtyh longer than a 7 game po series

[Van_Trump]

Having experienced the Vince Carter trade in Toronto, I just don't get what's so bad about this trade.

It is much easier to get rid of two medium sized bad contracts than one large sized bad contract.

[Pharmcat]

Cuban gave trunkster (a suitcase company) a 28 million dollar valuation , what makes anyone think he can run a good bball operation these days?

So a suitcase company can't be worth 28m? Samsonite says hi?

Sent from my SM-G950W using RealGM mobile app

No , watch the pitch and you’ll realize how ridiculous the whole thing was. The deal never went through (lucky for mark) because again watch the pitch and you’ll see how ridiculous the thing was

[leolozon]

The idea that those two guys are "easier" to move on those deals is weird. You don't trade them without giving picks. So who cares? Is that really the plan for Dallas? Attach a pick and dump them next year? That's a stupid plan.

The only chance is for them to become good this year, but their value right now is negative, let alone on these contracts.

Dumping KP could actually cost less considering there's an idea of potential there. NO ONE wants Dinwiddie and Bertans.

[Forbes]

The idea that those two guys are "easier" to move on those deals is weird. You don't trade them without giving picks with them. So who cares? Is that really the plan for Dallas? Attach a pick and dump them next year? That's a stupid plan.

The only chance is for them to become good this year, but their value are both negative, let alone on these contracts.

Right now, I'm pretty sure dumping KP would cost less considering there's an idea of potential there. NO ONE wants Dinwiddie and Bertans.

You don’t think the Mavs were trying to trade KP after the end of last season. No one wanted him.

I think people should look at it from another team’s perspective as well. If you owned a team would YOU actually trade for KP and how much would you even be willing to give up for him.

Nothing weird about splitting up a larger untradeable contract for 2 smaller ones and potentially gain a little depth for the short term. KP had 2 previous years under 60 games and this was going to be the 3rd. What championship can you win if a player plays half a season and you can’t improve the team because he is one of the contracts that stifles you because no one wants him.

Not sure how people are confused on why the trade was done. Call it bad but it was def necessary especially in addition to all the stuff we don’t know was happening behind the scenes.

I’m even surprised so many Mavs fans are upset. Y’all wanted us to keep KP then complain when we have 0 chance of improving? We already have a horrid time signing free agents every year for 20 years. We needed the flexibility to make future trades. It was clear Luka with KP is a failure.

[leolozon]

The idea that those two guys are "easier" to move on those deals is weird. You don't trade them without giving picks with them. So who cares? Is that really the plan for Dallas? Attach a pick and dump them next year? That's a stupid plan.

The only chance is for them to become good this year, but their value are both negative, let alone on these contracts.

Right now, I'm pretty sure dumping KP would cost less considering there's an idea of potential there. NO ONE wants Dinwiddie and Bertans.

You don’t think the Mavs were trying to trade KP after the end of last season. No one wanted him.

I think people should look at it from another team’s perspective as well. If you owned a team would YOU actually trade for KP and how much would you even be willing to give up for him.

Nothing weird about splitting up a larger untradeable contract for 2 smaller ones and potentially gain a little depth for the short term. KP had 2 previous years under 60 games and this was going to be the 3rd. What championship can you win if a player plays half a season and you can’t improve the team because he is one of the contracts that stifles you because no one wants him.

Not sure how people are confused on why the trade was done. Call it bad but it was def necessary especially in addition to all the stuff we don’t know was happening behind the scenes.

I’m even surprised so many Mavs fans are upset. Y’all wanted us to keep KP then complain when we have 0 chance of improving? We already have a horrid time signing free agents every year for 20 years. We needed the flexibility to make future trades. It was clear Luka with KP is a failure.

I never wanted the Mavs to trade for KP, I dislike the guy. I don't mind seeing him gone. It's still a bad trade to take two guys with probably even less value and give a pick on top of it.

The trade could end up being good. It doesn't change the fact that Dinwiddie and Bertans' value is highly negative and you can't dump them without attaching a pick.

At this point, I don't even care. It's not as if the team wasn't stuck with KP anyway. And the two guys can turn out okay I guess. I'm more down on Dinwiddie who was always a bad player to me, even on the Nets.

[Forbes]

The idea that those two guys are "easier" to move on those deals is weird. You don't trade them without giving picks with them. So who cares? Is that really the plan for Dallas? Attach a pick and dump them next year? That's a stupid plan.

The only chance is for them to become good this year, but their value are both negative, let alone on these contracts.

Right now, I'm pretty sure dumping KP would cost less considering there's an idea of potential there. NO ONE wants Dinwiddie and Bertans.

You don’t think the Mavs were trying to trade KP after the end of last season. No one wanted him.

I think people should look at it from another team’s perspective as well. If you owned a team would YOU actually trade for KP and how much would you even be willing to give up for him.

Nothing weird about splitting up a larger untradeable contract for 2 smaller ones and potentially gain a little depth for the short term. KP had 2 previous years under 60 games and this was going to be the 3rd. What championship can you win if a player plays half a season and you can’t improve the team because he is one of the contracts that stifles you because no one wants him.

Not sure how people are confused on why the trade was done. Call it bad but it was def necessary especially in addition to all the stuff we don’t know was happening behind the scenes.

I’m even surprised so many Mavs fans are upset. Y’all wanted us to keep KP then complain when we have 0 chance of improving? We already have a horrid time signing free agents every year for 20 years. We needed the flexibility to make future trades. It was clear Luka with KP is a failure.

I never wanted the Mavs to trade for KP, I dislike the guy. I don't mind seeing him gone. It's still a bad trade to take two guys with probably even less value and give a pick on top of it.

The trade could end up being good. It doesn't change the fact that Dinwiddie and Bertans' value is highly negative and you can't dump them without attaching a pick.

At this point, I don't even care. It's not as if the team wasn't stuck with KP anyway. And the two guys can turn out okay I guess. I'm more down on Dinwiddie who was always a bad player to me, even on the Nets.

I have 0 expectations from both of these new guys. I had a ton of expectations when KP came including actually improving his game. Dude came here and is exactly the same player. It use to kill me seeing him in the post with that stiff turnaround. I’m ecstatic I really thought we were stuck. I feel like we actually have a chance at building around Luka now. I really like Brunson and want to keep him but I already know he may be the next trade piece because we don’t have anything that anyone wants.

[giannis and 1]

It was a bad trade but not as bad as you're suggesting. Dallas should have gotten a late first out of it for giving up the best player.

[asas]

Bertans is gonna get back into form and he will become easily tradeable in the offseason.

At the same time I wouldn't be suprised if Porzingis doesn't finish the season.

Dinwiddie is bad but whatever. Maybe he can give a boost of the bench but yeah overall he's not good.

Mavs look about the same with and without KP on the floor. This is not awful. Get rid of him while he's "healthy" so you don't have to give up more for someone to take him.

[Swish1906]

Cuban gave trunkster (a suitcase company) a 28 million dollar valuation , what makes anyone think he can run a good bball operation these days?

Feel free to list the companies you own/owned, so we know you have the legitimate experience to rate Cubans business success

[Swish1906]

5 pages and no one posted Lowes perfect comment why the Mavs did it?

Here you go:

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/33264034/lowe-ridiculous-nba-trade-deadline-which-players-teams-officially-notice

[Pharmcat]

Cuban gave trunkster (a suitcase company) a 28 million dollar valuation , what makes anyone think he can run a good bball operation these days?

Feel free to list the companies you own/owned, so we know you have the legitimate experience to rate Cubans business success

Cubes account confirmed , but as I’ve posted and will repost so more people can open their eyes

People need to really study Cubes more and look at how overrated he is, his career is based on Yahoo being morons and buying his business from him (same Yahoo moron people who said no to buying Google). His NBA success is built cuz of Dirk, how has he done post Dirk career and also later years of Dirks career?

Lets consider:
1) Cubes passed on Ring, Shaq saw the potential in it and invested in it and it sold for 1 billion
2) He passed on the two highest grossing Shark Tank products in Scrub Daddy and Bombas socks
3) He gave a damn suitcase company (trunkster) a 28 million valuation AND laughed when Robert valued it at 5 million, thankfully for Cubes that deal never through
4) Nelson told him to draft Gianis, but Cubes wanted to trade back to have smaller rookie contract salary so he could offer Dwight the max, he did that because Fegan told him he could get Dwight to Dallas. But Dwight didnt go there, egg on face
5) In order to make up for Dwight, Fegan tries to get Deandre to Dallas the year after. We all know how that ended up. Another egg on the face. There have been rumors that Fegan was shadow GM for Mavs. Note: I have nothing against Fegan and may he RIP
6) The embarrassing sexual scandal in Mavs org. For a hands on owner who always tells people to know their numbers, you really believe he didn't know anything that was going on? If yes I got a bridge to sell.

Cubes is living off his 90s reputation and has been mediocre for the last decade.

[mixerball]

are we doing this again? kp is constantly injured. it doesnt matter what he can do when healthy. he will never be healthy when it matters.

[Swish1906]

Cuban gave trunkster (a suitcase company) a 28 million dollar valuation , what makes anyone think he can run a good bball operation these days?

Feel free to list the companies you own/owned, so we know you have the legitimate experience to rate Cubans business success

Cubes account confirmed , but as I’ve posted and will repost so more people can open their eyes

People need to really study Cubes more and look at how overrated he is, his career is based on Yahoo being morons and buying his business from him (same Yahoo moron people who said no to buying Google). His NBA success is built cuz of Dirk, how has he done post Dirk career and also later years of Dirks career?

Lets consider:
1) Cubes passed on Ring, Shaq saw the potential in it and invested in it and it sold for 1 billion
2) He passed on the two highest grossing Shark Tank products in Scrub Daddy and Bombas socks
3) He gave a damn suitcase company (trunkster) a 28 million valuation AND laughed when Robert valued it at 5 million, thankfully for Cubes that deal never through
4) Nelson told him to draft Gianis, but Cubes wanted to trade back to have smaller rookie contract salary so he could offer Dwight the max, he did that because Fegan told him he could get Dwight to Dallas. But Dwight didnt go there, egg on face
5) In order to make up for Dwight, Fegan tries to get Deandre to Dallas the year after. We all know how that ended up. Another egg on the face. There have been rumors that Fegan was shadow GM for Mavs. Note: I have nothing against Fegan and may he RIP
6) The embarrassing sexual scandal in Mavs org. For a hands on owner who always tells people to know their numbers, you really believe he didn't know anything that was going on? If yes I got a bridge to sell.

Cubes is living off his 90s reputation and has been mediocre for the last decade.

When Cuban made his big money you started to post in a basketball forum, resulting in 54000 posts. Should have used your time better back then when every idiot could become rich in the dotcom bubble, huh...

[MrGoat]

After my initial rage at the trade I waited to cool off and give the trade a closer look. It didn't get any better upon closer inspection.

Here's the breakdown:

2023: KP: 33.8M guaranteed, Dinwiddie + Bertans: 34M guaranteed

2024: KP: 36M player option, Dinwiddie + Bertans: 27M guaranteed, goes up to 35.8M if Spencer Dinwiddie plays in 6 more games

Dinwiddie has a 10M guarantee for 2024 that becomes a fully guaranteed if he plays in 50 games between the 2021-22 and 2022-23 seasons, he has already played 44 games this season so 6 to go.

2025: KP: 0, Dinwiddie + Bertans: 5M guaranteed, can go up to 16M in the unlikely event Bertans plays in 75% of his games in 2024

So let's get this straight, if Dallas actually plays Dinwiddie then they will have actually taken on more money. If Dinwiddie is an overpriced doorstop then they took on 5M in 2025 to save 9M in 2024. So basically they traded KP for 2 of Washington's worst contracts and they are the team that gave the Wizards a pick. And there's a chance KP declines his player option for long term security if he plays all right next season. Not to mention that Dinwiddie and Bertans completely suck so good luck trading them to clear space without attaching sweeteners that they don't have

Can somebody give me an example of a trade where a team got bent over worse than this at the negotiating table? I think you can unironically argue that they would have been better off just trading for Westbrook, and don't try to tell me the Lakers wouldn't have taken a KP package for Westy.

As a Raptors fan, I think of Vince Carter. We traded Vince for Aaron Williams and Eric Williams, Mourning refused to play. Aaron Williams went on to average 1.6 PPG in 37 games as a Raptor, while Eric Williams averaged 4.0 PPG in 62 games.

Vince of course went on to play 5 seasons in New Jersey, averaging 23.6 PPG, multiple ASGs, and helped eliminate us from the playoffs in 2007.

Oh my did it ever sting.

Now that one is pretty brutal. I was hoping to see some more awful trades like this posted. Lakers for Pau Gasol came to mind but Memphis ultimately did get Marc Gasol back for that one. I think that one might take the cake, the only defense for Toronto is they had pretty weak leverage because VC wanted out which still isn't that great of a defense.

What's really so bad about this trade is the Mavs would have been better off just not pulling the trigger, even if KP ended up hurt for good. Dinwiddie's had 2 ACLs already, has a reputation as a locker room cancer, missed more games to injury over these last 3 seasons than KP, could never shoot, and looks completely washed up after the last injury. We signed a 3 & D guy this offseason in Reggie Bullock for well less than frequently banged up 3 and no D guy Bertans is making, I would say the idea that Bertans will rehab his value to the point where that contract is tradable without attaching assets to it is laughable but Washington just did it. Good luck finding another front office stupid enough to pull that off on though

[DAWill1128]

I thought what the Mavs did on this trade was the worst move of any team, and probably by a big margin.

Dallas had a good shot at winning a round, they could beat the Jazz or Memphis in round 1. Round 2 probably not but you never know how injuries shake out. Now I don’t see any path forward, which is a deserve to Luka and the team this year and fans.

It’s important to advance in the playoffs even just a round because vets sign on discounts when they think they have a title shot. Literally the cheapest and easiest way to improve a team.

I think KP held more value and was easier to trade than these two contracts split up. Dinwiddie is the better player but the bigger head ache. KP being a stretch 5 who can protect the hoop is actually really valuable depending on your roster composition. KP also has way more upside still than those two guys. I don’t think you ever trade a dollar for change in the NBA. Mavs inability to get a young guy or good pick makes no sense. Washington is already calling him Jokic, so teaks definitely valued him.

Based on the Mavs roster I don’t know who your 2nd scoring option is. Who is protecting the paint? Kleber is more of a 4 than a 5 to me. DFS is more of a 3 than a 4 to me. Dinwiddie is a ball dominant dribbler, so he doesn’t really mesh with Luka. I guess he takes Lukas duties when he’s resting? Bertans has a big contract for a guy I don’t think you can play at the end of games. Could Bertans play next to Ayton or Gobert who are active interior defenders? Yeah, but the Mavs don’t have that. KP is obviously not fast but his length still disrupted shots, that makes a difference on a lot of possessions.

[J_T]

Mavs inability to get a young guy or good pick makes no sense. Washington is already calling him Jokic, so teaks definitely valued him.

Are you saying that Wizards would have done the deal without even if they had to offer more? For example without Mavs attaching second round pick to it.