2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt.2)

[ty 4191]

I have him as MVP now, but it's slightly weird that you're posting his numbers from the last 131 games. Great to put him in historical context (which, to be fair, is something many people consider when thinking about MVP - but they shouldn't), but not strictly relevant to this season. His BPM this season is beating '09 LeBron James by a pretty big margin. He's on pace for the all-time record in a number of advanced stats, and his PTS/REBS/ASTS line this season has never been matched (Oscar included) in NBA history.

I'm only posting his numbers since the beginning of last season because that's been the current version of Jokic. "Jokic 2.0", as it were.

Not directly germane to his current MVP discussion, of course. I'm just showing that he's doing things that have never been done, in the 75 year history of the NBA, for a much longer timeframe than 1 season.

What else is he leading in, all time, this season, that you've found?

Thanks!

[scrabbarista]

I have him as MVP now, but it's slightly weird that you're posting his numbers from the last 131 games. Great to put him in historical context (which, to be fair, is something many people consider when thinking about MVP - but they shouldn't), but not strictly relevant to this season. His BPM this season is beating '09 LeBron James by a pretty big margin. He's on pace for the all-time record in a number of advanced stats, and his PTS/REBS/ASTS line this season has never been matched (Oscar included) in NBA history.

I'm only posting his numbers since the beginning of last season because that's been the current version of Jokic. "Jokic 2.0", as it were.

Not directly germane to his current MVP discussion, of course. I'm just showing that he's doing things that have never been done, in the 75 year history of the NBA, for a much longer timeframe than 1 season.

What else is he leading in, all time, this season, that you've found?

Thanks!

I don't dig for info like I used to. I just know he has it in PER, BPM, and he's crushing RAPTOR (2nd is 2016 Curry). I imagine you might find similar things in LEBRON, PIPM, and other stuff.

[bebopdeluxe]

A truly MASSIVE disconnect between the oddsmakers in Vegas - whose job it is to set the lines in such a way to protect the house from losing money - and the RealGM GB poll.

Question - why are the oddsmakers so ridiculously wrong on this? If Embiid is truly a distant 3rd to Giannis and Jokic, what are the oddsmakers and the sharp money missing here?

Thanks!

RealGMs here vote on their own opinion who the MVP is.
Vegas bet on who the media will vote based on their agenda, taking considerations of market, voter fatigue, jokic coming from an MVP season and Giannis had b2b right before.
I vote Jokic MVP but would not bet money on him knowing what the media is doing.

What "the media" is doing?

"American basketball fans don't grasp how truly special Jokic is"?

God - I am SO F'K'N tired of Jokic fanboys trying to find a bogeyman to blame for HOW PERSECUTED Jokic is.

It really is pathetic.

The current odds are a combination of 1) who Vegas thinks is the current leader; and 2) the money flow on the various players.

Period.

The bookmakers DON'T WANT TO LOSE MONEY. They don't give a rat's azz about how "American basketball fans" not "appreciating how special Jokic is. The line is the line because THAT IS WHAT THE BASKETBALL WORLD THINKS.

And ENOUGH of this crap about how Jokic is not appreciated. Last season Embiid and Jokic were basically 1 and 2 for the award. Embiid got hurt, Jokic took over the top spot and won the award.

YAY FOR JOKIC! in the minds of the basketball world, he was viewed as the MOST VALUABLE PLAYER.

Again - MOST VALUABLE PLAYER.

Not "which guy has the best stats". Not "which player has the greatest RAPTOR rating of all time".

Who is the MOST VALUABLE PLAYER?

To hear some people slag "the media" or "American basketball fans" who aren't spohisticated enough to RECOGNIZE TRUE GREATNESS misses the ENTIRE POINT of the award.

Most VALUABLE Player...to his team (which, by definition, did either really well or WAY better than people expected).

That has ALWAYS been the criteria for the award. Not which guy is resetting the bar for some statistical metric that the average basketball fan DNGAF about.

Joel Embiid is having, in his own way, an arguably great season. But the voters who have him at #1 right now arent just looking as the 40+point games, and all of the other things he is doing. They see a team that most observers thought (and many RealGM regulars hoped) would be a dumpster fire/soap opera because of the entire Simmons issue. The fans - and I would think the voters, if this holds - will look not only at Embiid's statistics, but how the team has played RELATIVE TO EXPECTATIONS. And - unfortunately for Jokic fans - the betting public (and the Vegas oddsmakers) value Embiid's impact in helping the Sixedrs overcome the Simmons issue over Jokic carrying his team through injuries. While I can appreciate a Jokic fan's viewpoint that the combination of Jokic's statistics and their relative success despite injuries should make him the MVP, I find it ridiculous that posters condescend to narratives like, "well, American basketball fans just aren't sophisticated enough (like we, the Jokic fanboys) to appreciate Jokic's greatness".

Right?

Oh, well. Sorry about that.

I close with the story of Kirk Gibson, who won the National League MVP in 1988. The Dodgers won the NL pennant that year, and - given that GIbson won the MVP, he must have had a MONSTEROUS statistical season - right? Here were his numbers:

.290 batting average, 25 HR, 76 RBI, .860 OPS

I assure you, those numbers were nowhere near the top of the league. But there was NO QUESTION that he was the heart and soul of that team. He came over from the Detroit TIgers - where he was a key guy on the team that won the 1984 World Series. He had knee issues, and wasn't the same player when he came to the Dodgers...but he brought an attitude that infected a clubjouse that had been close-but-no-cigar, and transformed that team.

Unfortunately, by the time they got to the World Series, his knees were so shot that he couldn't play. He only had one at bat in the 1988 World Series...and it was one of the most famous at-bats in baseball history (for those who don't know, Google "Kirk Gibson Dennis Eckersley").

Jokic may be the best player, but the fans and Vegas oddsmakers think that Embiid is the most VALUABLE player.

Stop being so condescending to them.

[Hobo4President]

A truly MASSIVE disconnect between the oddsmakers in Vegas - whose job it is to set the lines in such a way to protect the house from losing money - and the RealGM GB poll.

Question - why are the oddsmakers so ridiculously wrong on this? If Embiid is truly a distant 3rd to Giannis and Jokic, what are the oddsmakers and the sharp money missing here?

Thanks!

RealGMs here vote on their own opinion who the MVP is.
Vegas bet on who the media will vote based on their agenda, taking considerations of market, voter fatigue, jokic coming from an MVP season and Giannis had b2b right before.
I vote Jokic MVP but would not bet money on him knowing what the media is doing.

What "the media" is doing?

"American basketball fans don't grasp how truly special Jokic is"?

God - I am SO F'K'N tired of Jokic fanboys trying to find a bogeyman to blame for HOW PERSECUTED Jokic is.

It really is pathetic.

The current odds are a combination of 1) who Vegas thinks is the current leader; and 2) the money flow on the various players.

Period.

The bookmakers DON'T WANT TO LOSE MONEY. They don't give a rat's azz about how "American basketball fans" not "appreciating how special Jokic is. The line is the line because THAT IS WHAT THE BASKETBALL WORLD THINKS.

And ENOUGH of this crap about how Jokic is not appreciated. Last season Embiid and Jokic were basically 1 and 2 for the award. Embiid got hurt, Jokic took over the top spot and won the award.

YAY FOR JOKIC! in the minds of the basketball world, he was viewed as the MOST VALUABLE PLAYER.

Again - MOST VALUABLE PLAYER.

Not "which guy has the best stats". Not "which player has the greatest RAPTOR rating of all time".

Who is the MOST VALUABLE PLAYER?

To hear some people slag "the media" or "American basketball fans" who aren't spohisticated enough to RECOGNIZE TRUE GREATNESS misses the ENTIRE POINT of the award.

Most VALUABLE Player...to his team (which, by definition, did either really well or WAY better than people expected).

That has ALWAYS been the criteria for the award. Not which guy is resetting the bar for some statistical metric that the average basketball fan DNGAF about.

Joel Embiid is having, in his own way, an arguably great season. But the voters who have him at #1 right now arent just looking as the 40+point games, and all of the other things he is doing. They see a team that most observers thought (and many RealGM regulars hoped) would be a dumpster fire/soap opera because of the entire Simmons issue. The fans - and I would think the voters, if this holds - will look not only at Embiid's statistics, but how the team has played RELATIVE TO EXPECTATIONS. And - unfortunately for Jokic fans - the betting public (and the Vegas oddsmakers) value Embiid's impact in helping the Sixedrs overcome the Simmons issue over Jokic carrying his team through injuries. While I can appreciate a Jokic fan's viewpoint that the combination of Jokic's statistics and their relative success despite injuries should make him the MVP, I find it ridiculous that posters condescend to narratives like, "well, American basketball fans just aren't sophisticated enough (like we, the Jokic fanboys) to appreciate Jokic's greatness".

Right?

Oh, well. Sorry about that.

I close with the story of Kirk Gibson, who won the National League MVP in 1988. The Dodgers won the NL pennant that year, and - given that GIbson won the MVP, he must have had a MONSTEROUS statistical season - right? Here were his numbers:

.290 batting average, 25 HR, 76 RBI, .860 OPS

I assure you, those numbers were nowhere near the top of the league. But there was NO QUESTION that he was the heart and soul of that team. He came over from the Detroit TIgers - where he was a key guy on the team that won the 1984 World Series. He had knee issues, and wasn't the same player when he came to the Dodgers...but he brought an attitude that infected a clubjouse that had been close-but-no-cigar, and transformed that team.

Unfortunately, by the time they got to the World Series, his knees were so shot that he couldn't play. He only had one at bat in the 1988 World Series...and it was one of the most famous at-bats in baseball history (for those who don't know, Google "Kirk Gibson Dennis Eckersley").

Jokic may be the best player, but the fans and Vegas oddsmakers think that Embiid is the most VALUABLE player.

Stop being so condescending to them.

Chill dude. He's arguing against the criteria the media typically focus on for MVP, his point about the bookies is the same as yours.

[bebopdeluxe]

RealGMs here vote on their own opinion who the MVP is.
Vegas bet on who the media will vote based on their agenda, taking considerations of market, voter fatigue, jokic coming from an MVP season and Giannis had b2b right before.
I vote Jokic MVP but would not bet money on him knowing what the media is doing.

What "the media" is doing?

"American basketball fans don't grasp how truly special Jokic is"?

God - I am SO F'K'N tired of Jokic fanboys trying to find a bogeyman to blame for HOW PERSECUTED Jokic is.

It really is pathetic.

The current odds are a combination of 1) who Vegas thinks is the current leader; and 2) the money flow on the various players.

Period.

The bookmakers DON'T WANT TO LOSE MONEY. They don't give a rat's azz about how "American basketball fans" not "appreciating how special Jokic is. The line is the line because THAT IS WHAT THE BASKETBALL WORLD THINKS.

And ENOUGH of this crap about how Jokic is not appreciated. Last season Embiid and Jokic were basically 1 and 2 for the award. Embiid got hurt, Jokic took over the top spot and won the award.

YAY FOR JOKIC! in the minds of the basketball world, he was viewed as the MOST VALUABLE PLAYER.

Again - MOST VALUABLE PLAYER.

Not "which guy has the best stats". Not "which player has the greatest RAPTOR rating of all time".

Who is the MOST VALUABLE PLAYER?

To hear some people slag "the media" or "American basketball fans" who aren't spohisticated enough to RECOGNIZE TRUE GREATNESS misses the ENTIRE POINT of the award.

Most VALUABLE Player...to his team (which, by definition, did either really well or WAY better than people expected).

That has ALWAYS been the criteria for the award. Not which guy is resetting the bar for some statistical metric that the average basketball fan DNGAF about.

Joel Embiid is having, in his own way, an arguably great season. But the voters who have him at #1 right now arent just looking as the 40+point games, and all of the other things he is doing. They see a team that most observers thought (and many RealGM regulars hoped) would be a dumpster fire/soap opera because of the entire Simmons issue. The fans - and I would think the voters, if this holds - will look not only at Embiid's statistics, but how the team has played RELATIVE TO EXPECTATIONS. And - unfortunately for Jokic fans - the betting public (and the Vegas oddsmakers) value Embiid's impact in helping the Sixedrs overcome the Simmons issue over Jokic carrying his team through injuries. While I can appreciate a Jokic fan's viewpoint that the combination of Jokic's statistics and their relative success despite injuries should make him the MVP, I find it ridiculous that posters condescend to narratives like, "well, American basketball fans just aren't sophisticated enough (like we, the Jokic fanboys) to appreciate Jokic's greatness".

Right?

Oh, well. Sorry about that.

I close with the story of Kirk Gibson, who won the National League MVP in 1988. The Dodgers won the NL pennant that year, and - given that GIbson won the MVP, he must have had a MONSTEROUS statistical season - right? Here were his numbers:

.290 batting average, 25 HR, 76 RBI, .860 OPS

I assure you, those numbers were nowhere near the top of the league. But there was NO QUESTION that he was the heart and soul of that team. He came over from the Detroit TIgers - where he was a key guy on the team that won the 1984 World Series. He had knee issues, and wasn't the same player when he came to the Dodgers...but he brought an attitude that infected a clubjouse that had been close-but-no-cigar, and transformed that team.

Unfortunately, by the time they got to the World Series, his knees were so shot that he couldn't play. He only had one at bat in the 1988 World Series...and it was one of the most famous at-bats in baseball history (for those who don't know, Google "Kirk Gibson Dennis Eckersley").

Jokic may be the best player, but the fans and Vegas oddsmakers think that Embiid is the most VALUABLE player.

Stop being so condescending to them.

Chill dude. He's arguing against the criteria the media typically focus on for MVP, his point about the bookies is the same as yours.

Sorry, bro. This is for everybody in this thread - and on this board - who cop an attitude that basketball fans aren’t “sophisticated enough” to appreciate Jokic’s brilliance…and vote for (and bet on) Embiid as MVP.

[dygaction]

A truly MASSIVE disconnect between the oddsmakers in Vegas - whose job it is to set the lines in such a way to protect the house from losing money - and the RealGM GB poll.

Question - why are the oddsmakers so ridiculously wrong on this? If Embiid is truly a distant 3rd to Giannis and Jokic, what are the oddsmakers and the sharp money missing here?

Thanks!

RealGMs here vote on their own opinion who the MVP is.
Vegas bet on who the media will vote based on their agenda, taking considerations of market, voter fatigue, jokic coming from an MVP season and Giannis had b2b right before.
I vote Jokic MVP but would not bet money on him knowing what the media is doing.

What "the media" is doing?

"American basketball fans don't grasp how truly special Jokic is"?

God - I am SO F'K'N tired of Jokic fanboys trying to find a bogeyman to blame for HOW PERSECUTED Jokic is.

It really is pathetic.

The current odds are a combination of 1) who Vegas thinks is the current leader; and 2) the money flow on the various players.

Period.

The bookmakers DON'T WANT TO LOSE MONEY. They don't give a rat's azz about how "American basketball fans" not "appreciating how special Jokic is. The line is the line because THAT IS WHAT THE BASKETBALL WORLD THINKS.

And ENOUGH of this crap about how Jokic is not appreciated. Last season Embiid and Jokic were basically 1 and 2 for the award. Embiid got hurt, Jokic took over the top spot and won the award.

YAY FOR JOKIC! in the minds of the basketball world, he was viewed as the MOST VALUABLE PLAYER.

Again - MOST VALUABLE PLAYER.

Not "which guy has the best stats". Not "which player has the greatest RAPTOR rating of all time".

Who is the MOST VALUABLE PLAYER?

To hear some people slag "the media" or "American basketball fans" who aren't spohisticated enough to RECOGNIZE TRUE GREATNESS misses the ENTIRE POINT of the award.

Most VALUABLE Player...to his team (which, by definition, did either really well or WAY better than people expected).

That has ALWAYS been the criteria for the award. Not which guy is resetting the bar for some statistical metric that the average basketball fan DNGAF about.

Joel Embiid is having, in his own way, an arguably great season. But the voters who have him at #1 right now arent just looking as the 40+point games, and all of the other things he is doing. They see a team that most observers thought (and many RealGM regulars hoped) would be a dumpster fire/soap opera because of the entire Simmons issue. The fans - and I would think the voters, if this holds - will look not only at Embiid's statistics, but how the team has played RELATIVE TO EXPECTATIONS. And - unfortunately for Jokic fans - the betting public (and the Vegas oddsmakers) value Embiid's impact in helping the Sixedrs overcome the Simmons issue over Jokic carrying his team through injuries. While I can appreciate a Jokic fan's viewpoint that the combination of Jokic's statistics and their relative success despite injuries should make him the MVP, I find it ridiculous that posters condescend to narratives like, "well, American basketball fans just aren't sophisticated enough (like we, the Jokic fanboys) to appreciate Jokic's greatness".

Right?

Oh, well. Sorry about that.

I close with the story of Kirk Gibson, who won the National League MVP in 1988. The Dodgers won the NL pennant that year, and - given that GIbson won the MVP, he must have had a MONSTEROUS statistical season - right? Here were his numbers:

.290 batting average, 25 HR, 76 RBI, .860 OPS

I assure you, those numbers were nowhere near the top of the league. But there was NO QUESTION that he was the heart and soul of that team. He came over from the Detroit TIgers - where he was a key guy on the team that won the 1984 World Series. He had knee issues, and wasn't the same player when he came to the Dodgers...but he brought an attitude that infected a clubjouse that had been close-but-no-cigar, and transformed that team.

Unfortunately, by the time they got to the World Series, his knees were so shot that he couldn't play. He only had one at bat in the 1988 World Series...and it was one of the most famous at-bats in baseball history (for those who don't know, Google "Kirk Gibson Dennis Eckersley").

Jokic may be the best player, but the fans and Vegas oddsmakers think that Embiid is the most VALUABLE player.

Stop being so condescending to them.

Carry on. Embiid's team is 0.5w ahead of Luka's Mavs with a much better supporting cast. I can understand lots of people vote for Embiid but you madness is really coming from nowhere.

[HardenandWilt]

I wonder who the other 7 Curry voters are.

its like we didnt just witness the worst shooting slump of his career. No way is he above cp3, luka or morant for me

And yet, easily more efficient on the season than each of the players you just listed lol.

The warriors are not winning because of steph

[BoatsNZones]

its like we didnt just witness the worst shooting slump of his career. No way is he above cp3, luka or morant for me

And yet, easily more efficient on the season than each of the players you just listed lol.

The warriors are not winning because of steph

He splits time with the bench this season and is a +13.3 currently (easily the best +/- in the NBA overall). Only Jokic has higher impact stats on the season. You’re out of your depth my guy. I have not seen one cogent argument out of you. I would recommend sitting back.

[eyeatoma]

Where is that guy who did calculations about Joel not able to run the floor.

Dude is doing and 1 moves.

Read on Twitter

?t=PVglZgL3Uah2bkWwaIIb2Q&s=19

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

[eyeatoma]

Another MVP performances from Embiid, against a good team for all the haters.

40 pt triple double.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

[Hussien Fatal]

Joel is the mvp! 40 15 and 10!! Wow he’s is the best player in the league currently no doubt about it.

[Tanks1]

i admit it.....i thought Clevelands front line was going to be a problem....especially after a game yesterday .....Wrong......MVP!!
10, 9 , 8, 76ers!!!

[Hussien Fatal]

Read on Twitter

?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

MVP!

[Ballerhogger]

Joel will be mvp if he can stay healthy.

[ty 4191]

Watch on YouTube

Jokic FOURTH game winning block of the season!!

28/15/6 tonight!!

[Hussien Fatal]

Where is that guy who did calculations about Joel not able to run the floor.

Dude is doing and 1 moves.

Read on Twitter

?t=PVglZgL3Uah2bkWwaIIb2Q&s=19

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

Wow he’s incredible all the way around. Hands down the best player in the league this season.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

I can't believe the three best players in the league are 2 centers and a PF, we were told big men were dead, gone and never coming back.

[ty 4191]

Joel is the mvp! 40 15 and 10!! Wow he’s is the best player in the league currently no doubt about it.

No doubt about it? Delusional.

Check this most current poll. Then check all the polls we've had all season.

Has Embiid ever been remotely close to leading? Not once.

[eyeatoma]

Joel is the mvp! 40 15 and 10!! Wow he’s is the best player in the league currently no doubt about it.

No doubt about it? Delusional.

Check this most current poll. Then check all the polls we've had all season.

Has Embiid ever been remotely close to leading? Not once.

Sorry forgot that realgm is who votes for the actual MVP.

Are you serious right now, lol.

[bebopdeluxe]

Joel is the mvp! 40 15 and 10!! Wow he’s is the best player in the league currently no doubt about it.

No doubt about it? Delusional.

Check this most current poll. Then check all the polls we've had all season.

Has Embiid ever been remotely close to leading? Not once.

He is in Vegas. Nobody cares about a jabroni RealGM poll.

When it comes to MONEY, the leader in the clubhouse is Embiid. Sorry, bro,