Porzingis + 2nd round pick for Dinwiddie, Bertans

[FAH1223]

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

(Keeping Bryant would be...) A waste of money. Gafford is the starter, KP can play stretch 5, Kuzma can play small-ball 5. Just sign a vet big who is content with no play time (or keep Carey) like RLO.

...To be fair, the Morris deal was an OK deal in retrospect. He had a good contract and filled a major need at PF....

Wow... you're on a roll!

We have a lot of evidence that Daniel Gafford can't manage more than @20 minutes a game. Of course, that might change. But, it's hard to disregard experience.

Porzingis is in his 7th year. He's never had a good season, & he's injured much of the time -- averages 1400 minutes/season. He's not the solution to anything except how to get rid of Bertans & Dinwiddie.

Kuzma isn't a 5. Vernon Carey is a 20 year old prospect.

Most important of all -- why would we spend $$ & a roster spot on "a vet (for) no play time"? We are a rebuilding team.

Thomas Bryant is an extremely good player coming off an injury. He's young. It's unlikely he'll be expensive. Keeping him is obviously a good idea. Doesn't mean it'll happen; that will depend on other opportunities still unknown. But, in principle, I'm sure that's what Tommy has in mind.

As I read this I read this and I feel distracted.. Like Charlie Brown's teacher going blah blah blah. Not because what you are saying is unintelligible or not making good sense it's just that I got AD HDA DD....

All I am thinking about is when Daniel gafford starts making threes would you guys remember I told you so

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I have not been able to read anyone's thread but this is like when the lakers got pal gasoline


Pau Gasol

Kristaps is better defending the rim than Pau was...similar players IMO, and a great mentor and standby for Gadford


....

Gaff

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[FAH1223]

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Bryant's defense prevents him from being an asset. If he had value, he probably would have been traded this past week. I know i'm a broken record on this but you can't hide a poor defending C. You can't gameplan away someone who's the last line of defense but can't move or react quick enough to effectively deter shots.

I am a broken record in saying the guy can play powerforward

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Bryant's defense prevents him from being an asset. If he had value, he probably would have been traded this past week. I know i'm a broken record on this but you can't hide a poor defending C. You can't gameplan away someone who's the last line of defense but can't move or react quick enough to effectively deter shots.

Did you notice that the same team that got Tyree's halliburton got Jaylen Smith the guy yall keep saying is too light in the hips...?


JAL EN Smith

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Been thinking this over and now I find myself siding with Doc. I'd bring back Bryant if I could do so cheaply (say $5M or less).

Given Porzingis' injury history, it would be wise to have two other playable centers on the roster, not just Gafford. Bryant gives us a guy very similar to Porzingis on offense to fill in when Porzingis inevitably gets hurt.

If Bryant is too expensive, or doesn't seem willing to take on a 3rd stringer role, we'd definitely want a decent over-the-hill vet as a 3rd stringer (Robin Lopez type), not just some rookie walk-on.

Yes, makes a lot of sense to bring Bryant back at the right price. We’ll need a third center given Porzingis’ injury history and, just as importantly, it will give the Zards a chance to see how TB looks fully recovered from his knee injury (hopefully) and after a more typical offseason of training and development.

Agreed. & your points are salient. Thomas Bryant is a young player who has already played very well in the NBA. You do not let guys like that walk if you can possibly avoid it!

The particulars of his salary aren't even all that important. I.e. I don't want to overpay him (or anyone), but how much he gets is only key if it affects our overall luxtax situation &/or hamstrings us. & I would also sign him for 3 years.

Key point: you can't treat this as a conventional situation of 1st string, 2d string, back of the bench guy.

Gafford can only play 20 minutes. Don't look away from that.

& Porzingis is unlikely to give you 1500 minutes next season. Not to mention that, no, he is not a good player even when he *is* on the court. Why do you think Dallas took two awful contracts back for him -- & threw in a R2 pick this year???

Compare Bryant & Porzingis on their careers! Bryant is much much better. It ain't close: https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?player_id2=bryanth01&player_id1=porzikr01&sum=0&request=1

I am very happy with the 3 rotation of porzynga's Gafford and Thomas Ryan

I don't care if every one of my posts looks like it's drunk and sailor Drunken

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I guess I'm always At 1 end of the extremes of this time it is happy

I think we are loaded at the center position now

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[41Dirk41]

Hi everybody, italian Mavs fan here.

I wish you and KP all the best.

Unfortunately for the Mavs he and Luka didn't work... A little bit was KP fault, a little bit was Luka fault and a little bit for the injuries. **** happens

I'm ok with Bertans, i know him very well and i think he could be very good with Luka who creates a ton of wide open 3s.

But what about Dinwiddie? Can he creates his own shoots? Has really low BBQI?

Thanks for the answers

[mhd]

Hi everybody, italian Mavs fan here.

I wish you and KP all the best.

Unfortunately for the Mavs he and Luka didn't work... A little bit was KP fault, a little bit was Luka fault and a little bit for the injuries. **** happens

I'm ok with Bertans, i know him very well and i think he could be very good with Luka who creates a ton of wide open 3s.

But what about Dinwiddie? Can he creates his own shoots? Has really low BBQI?

Thanks for the answers

Dinwiddie is pure garbage (IMO). He cannot blow by anyone. He pounds the rock. He drifts when shoots (like he doesn't shoot normally. He jumps to the side for some reason). The only positive I can say is that he's got good size. Otherwise, pretty much every person on this board is saying good riddance!

[NatP4]

He’s had a rough season to this point in terms of shooting%, but in the last 15 games, Dinwiddie has led the wizards in on/off differential by a wide margin.

I think he’s still recovering from the ACL injury. There’s a lack of explosion, but he’s still a solid PG, just not the impact player that he was pre-injury.

Dinwiddie hit some big time clutch shots for us and had some monster games when Beal was out. At worst, he manages the game and limits the turnovers, and gets your offense into good sets.

I have no doubt that Bertans will be highly useful for your guys. We didn’t even give him a chance to get into a rhythm this year. Even still, his on/off numbers have climbed out of the gutter and into average territory (usually very good).

You probably got a quality rotation piece combo guard, and a quality spot up shooter.

If they get back to their old selves, Bertans led us in on/off differential and had a massively positive impact, he’s one of the best shooters in the NBA that can pull up from anywhere against any defense. Dinwiddie was an impact combo guard, and one of the most underrated players in the league pre injury.

Lots of upside for Dallas, and the worst case is still pretty alright.

[PaulinVA]

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Hi everybody, italian Mavs fan here.

I wish you and KP all the best.

Unfortunately for the Mavs he and Luka didn't work... A little bit was KP fault, a little bit was Luka fault and a little bit for the injuries. **** happens

I'm ok with Bertans, i know him very well and i think he could be very good with Luka who creates a ton of wide open 3s.

But what about Dinwiddie? Can he creates his own shoots? Has really low BBQI?

Thanks for the answers

Dinwiddie is pure garbage (IMO). He cannot blow by anyone. He pounds the rock. He drifts when shoots (like he doesn't shoot normally. He jumps to the side for some reason). The only positive I can say is that he's got good size. Otherwise, pretty much every person on this board is saying good riddance!

Rebuttal: I think he's whatever his body of work was before he came to the Wizards. He stunk with the Wizards but he's coming off injury, playing second banana, and he apparently really sulked after some behind closed doors meetings. His observations about what caused the Wizards problems weren't heard well per him. I think he's not garbage but he's way sensitive and possibly injured still.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

He’s had a rough season to this point in terms of shooting%, but in the last 15 games, Dinwiddie has led the wizards in on/off differential by a wide margin.

I think he’s still recovering from the ACL injury. There’s a lack of explosion, but he’s still a solid PG, just not the impact player that he was pre-injury.

Dinwiddie hit some big time clutch shots for us and had some monster games when Beal was out. At worst, he manages the game and limits the turnovers, and gets your offense into good sets.

I have no doubt that Bertans will be highly useful for your guys. We didn’t even give him a chance to get into a rhythm this year. Even still, his on/off numbers have climbed out of the gutter and into average territory (usually very good).

You probably got a quality rotation piece combo guard, and a quality spot up shooter.

If they get back to their old selves, Bertans led us in on/off differential and had a massively positive impact, he’s one of the best shooters in the NBA that can pull up from anywhere against any defense. Dinwiddie was an impact combo guard, and one of the most underrated players in the league pre injury.

Lots of upside for Dallas, and the worst case is still pretty alright.

NatP4 is very, very insightful.

Dinwiddie and Bertans are going to DEFINITELY help the Mavericks get at least past the Lakers in the playoffs.

<<<<EDIT: MAYBE NOT...LAKERS LOOK GOOD VS GOLDEN STATE 12TH FEB>>>>>

Washington casual, less-knowledgeable fans do not recall history, seeing DeShawn Stevenson help the Mavericks win a championship. Dindwiddie drives and kicks not fast but he SHOULD be fine as a backup to Luka or a relief valve for Luka as well as a legit PG starter.

Like mhd says, Bertans is going to kill it on your team.

win/win deal both teams

[penbeast0]

Tim Legler: "I know he got nicknamed the 'Unicorn' because he's so unique. But he's also the unicorn because you hardly ever see him."

Saw this on PC board and thought it was funny . . . hopefully not true going forward!

[FAH1223]

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[closg00]

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There you have it, the Wizards locker room was a dysfunctional mess (again) and it showed on the court, this is on the coach and GM, the Spurs would never have a dysfunctional locker room like this. WUJ has another crack it getting this new group on a tight ship.

[nate33]

He’s had a rough season to this point in terms of shooting%, but in the last 15 games, Dinwiddie has led the wizards in on/off differential by a wide margin.

I think he’s still recovering from the ACL injury. There’s a lack of explosion, but he’s still a solid PG, just not the impact player that he was pre-injury.

Dinwiddie hit some big time clutch shots for us and had some monster games when Beal was out. At worst, he manages the game and limits the turnovers, and gets your offense into good sets.

I have no doubt that Bertans will be highly useful for your guys. We didn’t even give him a chance to get into a rhythm this year. Even still, his on/off numbers have climbed out of the gutter and into average territory (usually very good).

You probably got a quality rotation piece combo guard, and a quality spot up shooter.

If they get back to their old selves, Bertans led us in on/off differential and had a massively positive impact, he’s one of the best shooters in the NBA that can pull up from anywhere against any defense. Dinwiddie was an impact combo guard, and one of the most underrated players in the league pre injury.

Lots of upside for Dallas, and the worst case is still pretty alright.

This is the optimistic, best-case scenario take. NatP4 isn't necessarily wrong, but a lot will have to break right for this take to be accurate.

Bertans, at his best two years ago, was a very helpful 6th man who provided a ton of off-ball gravity and made the offense easier for everyone else. And defensively, he's not really as bad as perceived. He has very long arms and was often pretty effective as a rotator on help D. However, the Wizards paid him a contract that really assumed that peak level of play would persist for the next 4 years. It didn't. Bertans had a little injury trouble, and a little bit of conditioning issues, possibly related to Covid, and he hasn't been anywhere close to the same player over the last 2 seasons.

Two years ago, he was launching almost 11 3's per 36 minutes and hitting 42% of them, while only being paid $7M a year. Then last year, he got a new contract worth $16M a year but that 3-point percentage fell to 39.5% which is still good, but not quite as blistering. He went from being arguably worth that $16M a year deal to being worth about $10-12M - not a huge albatross or anything, just a little bit disappointing. But this year, he has been terrible. Suddenly, he can no longer hit the 3, shooting just 32%. And if he's not giving you the floor spacing, he's not helping. Eventually, he got benched and he proceeded to be a locker room cancer because he was mad about playing time.

It's certainly possible that Bertans can resume his old level of play in a new system with consistent playing time. But it's been a good long while since he shot 42% from 3-point range. I have my doubts if he'll ever get back to that echelon. He was basically Stephen Curry for a couple of years there in terms of accuracy and volume. I think, at best, he'll start to play like he did last year, shooting in the high 30's from 3 point range. That's nice but not really a game changer since he's a sub-par defender and he is paid a fortune. I seriously doubt Bertans will live up to that contract. That's for sure.

Dinwiddie is a different story. He was obviously a pretty good player in Brooklyn pre-injury. It's not unreasonable to conclude that his poor play to simply be a hangover from the injury and that he'll get better with time. Or maybe, he has permanently lost a step and that makes all the difference. It could go either way. One thing that's definitely true is that he clashed with Beal. The vision was for them to share ball-handling duties with each guy serving more as a combo guard rather than Dinwiddie as the pure PG and Beal as a pure SG. That didn't come to pass. Dinwiddie was terrible when he didn't have the ball in his hands and he never figured out how to be effective alongside Beal. He did play pretty well in games that Beal missed. What concerns me is that the same dynamic is in play in Dallas with Luka being a ball dominant guy. I'm not sure if Dinwiddie will figure it out there either.

[doclinkin]

Dinwiddie is a different story. He was obviously a pretty good player in Brooklyn pre-injury. It's not unreasonable to conclude that his poor play to simply be a hangover from the injury and that he'll get better with time. Or maybe, he has permanently lost a step and that makes all the difference. It could go either way. One thing that's definitely true is that he clashed with Beal. The vision was for them to share ball-handling duties with each guy serving more as a combo guard rather than Dinwiddie as the pure PG and Beal as a pure SG. That didn't come to pass. Dinwiddie was terrible when he didn't have the ball in his hands and he never figured out how to be effective alongside Beal. He did play pretty well in games that Beal missed. What concerns me is that the same dynamic is in play in Dallas with Luka being a ball dominant guy. I'm not sure if Dinwiddie will figure it out there either.

What's also true is that the new rules emphasis has made life harder for players who have relied on drawing fouls as a key component of their game. Especially for ball-handling guards (no so much for dominant Bigs). The threat of ref whistles forced defenders to give the ball handler space, or else risk foul trouble and free throw shots. Now however combo guards (undersized shooting guards especially) suffer in that opponents can play them tight, which interferes with outside shooting, dribbling, and passing alike. Tougher still, refs will now call fouls on the offensive player that used to be called against the defender. Rip-through moves, an extended arm, a shoulder bump, these get whistled on the attacker -- making attackers tentative and emboldening defenders to play even tougher.

As a PG Dinwiddie is more analytical than instinctive. He does no react quickly but likes to read the situation before committing. As a SG he does not have unlimited range or a quick tricker nor elusive footwork nor any off-ball game. He is not among the athletic elite who can power through and finish through contact. Refs still reward finishers with whistles. He is not that.

He's smart, he may adjust his game. Guards are going to have to go to school in the offseason to puzzle out what game they can play now, but it is tough to adjust on the fly. Dinwiddie recovering from injury, learning new personnel, adjusting to a new rule set and a having to share duties of initiating contact, with a rookie head coach, he did not have the tools or force of personality to overcome all the obstacles. Maybe he will in Dallas since his job will be to sub for Luka more than play next to him. He's still smart with the ball in his hands, in pick and roll especially, but needs finishers next to him, and the role as primary ball handler.

[Zonkerbl]

So does this improve the team at all? I've been asking for a quick footed PG who can fit into the defensive scheme better, is Ish that guy? Can he hit the three? Can he pass?