The Official Jalen Suggs Thread

[JF5]

Considering not many rookies are shooting the ball well I'm not concerned for Suggs. There are only like 3 guys out of the draft that are shooting well outside of the paint and we have one of them in Franz.

If you go down the list of Wing Players that were drafted nearly all of them are shooting under 40 Percent from the field too.

[VFX]

It would be hilarious to read some of comments about player like him if he is on other team or is second round pick and compare it to current comments.

His numbers are historic. Just not in fashion you want to be historic.

I don't understand need to defend and make false arguments how he "brings lot to a table " "makes winning plays" whie it's obvious that he has been awful. He is rookie and he will probably improve ( not like it's really possible to get much worst) but raving about him is just pointless.
IN last 10 games alone, on Magic ,he is second worst in net rating, worst in efficiency and in same time second most (over)used player behind Cole in usage.
Last 4-5 years, list of nba players that get to play 20 games at least and have eFG under 42% is around 15-22 a year. Half of them don't get a chance to play next year.

And now somebody will dig up Billups drafted 30 years ago or Kyle Lowry drafted 15 years ago to make overarching point about improvments and just ignore army of Marcus Smarts and Dennis Smiths every year.

Jalen Suggs should improve at basketball becaues he is rookie. That improvments have to be massive ones in order for him to become average nba player. Right now he is way below it.

You typed all of this after he had his career high and first double double as a rook.

[OrlChamps2030]

Remember when people doubted Dipo and Harris and we gave up on them. He's a rookie, he needs time, is he a 'star', probably not, but we knew that. He could be a very very very good basketball player though

Sent from my SM-G996B using RealGM mobile app

And plenty of guys believed in Bamba, Hezonja, and Payton

I agree with you though. Suggs needs time and instead of speaking in polarizing absolutes (hes a bust vs he’ll lead his team to a championship) the truth probably lies somewhere in between. It still looks very possible he could develop into a high level glue guy.

One thing to note though, glue guys look a lot worse on trash lame teams with a tank commander head coach like ours. The perception of Suggs would be waaay different if he played for the Heat

[yoyojw17]

Remember when people doubted Dipo and Harris and we gave up on them. He's a rookie, he needs time, is he a 'star', probably not, but we knew that. He could be a very very very good basketball player though

Sent from my SM-G996B using RealGM mobile app

And plenty of guys believed in Bamba, Hezonja, and Payton

I agree with you though. Suggs needs time and instead of speaking in polarizing absolutes (hes a bust vs he’ll lead his team to a championship) the truth probably lies somewhere in between. It still looks very possible he could develop into a high level glue guy.

One thing to note though, glue guys look a lot worse on trash lame teams with a tank commander head coach like ours. The perception of Suggs would be waaay different if he played for the Heat

This!!!

[pepe1991]

It would be hilarious to read some of comments about player like him if he is on other team or is second round pick and compare it to current comments.

His numbers are historic. Just not in fashion you want to be historic.

I don't understand need to defend and make false arguments how he "brings lot to a table " "makes winning plays" whie it's obvious that he has been awful. He is rookie and he will probably improve ( not like it's really possible to get much worst) but raving about him is just pointless.
IN last 10 games alone, on Magic ,he is second worst in net rating, worst in efficiency and in same time second most (over)used player behind Cole in usage.
Last 4-5 years, list of nba players that get to play 20 games at least and have eFG under 42% is around 15-22 a year. Half of them don't get a chance to play next year.

And now somebody will dig up Billups drafted 30 years ago or Kyle Lowry drafted 15 years ago to make overarching point about improvments and just ignore army of Marcus Smarts and Dennis Smiths every year.

Jalen Suggs should improve at basketball becaues he is rookie. That improvments have to be massive ones in order for him to become average nba player. Right now he is way below it.

I often agree with what you write, but you could not be more wrong about Suggs.

OK, you are pretty close if you wear an eye patch and only watch half of the court. But RAPTOR and WAR have Suggs solidly in the middle of the pack of NBA players and in the upper 1/3rd of rookies.

Want to know who is having a historically bad season?

Jalen Green, the guy many magic fans wanted to trade up to draft. Jalen Green (by RAPTOR or WAR) is the worse player in the NBA by a wide margin.

Jalen Suggs, among players who played at least 500 min in nba, has 10th worst offensive raptor.

Jalen Green is collosal two way black hole but that doesn't change fact Suggs is also bad on offense where Jalen Green blows on both sides.

Issue here is perception and simply holding double standards. People hate guys like Schroder , Bledsoe or Marcus Smart. Just find what board actually thinks about them by reading 2017,2018 ,2019, 2020 & 2020 comments about those players. Suggs is by definition , for what he showed, less potent Eric Bledsoe mixed with more usage on Marcus Smart.
But now they all claim that they love Suggs.

Point guard in modern era of basketball who shoots 30-150 for 3 is worthless, regardless how good defense he plays. Especially because his defense is still complete no match to prevent guys like Ja Morant , Chris Paul , Mitchell or any other upper level guard in nba from having huge nights. Morant against him had 33 points in 3 quaters. And it's not about Suggs , it's about fact that guards will never be able to lock down other guards nor their defense will be "lockdown" defense because nba doesn't allow any sort of physicality where that would be objective scenario.

I don't think Suggs is bust, but Suggs has been huge dissapointment. Not only that he is worthless shooter , his dribbling and ball security is simply bad. And he simply isn't advanced playmaker.
What Magic needed is capable scorer and reliable shooter. What they got is defensive minded Fultz. Last time i checked, they already had Fultz.

"Why you post this after his best game" Because his best game happened to happen during lobsided losss where, objectivlly 30 out of 48 min of basketball was glorified garbage time so it's irrelevant that he had "big game" if that game counted for nothing. For crying out loud Elfrid Payton played 22 min.

Reason why Suggs is polaziring and Wagner isn't comes from very simple fact. Franz is objectivlly great rookie and already at worst - rotation nba player on almost all teams. And with Suggs, we can argue is he better rookie than Frank Ntilikina was.

[basketballRob]

If Suggs stays healthy he's still has 24 more games to improve his stats. I wish he could've played more when Cole was out. I'd rather him learn the PG position because asking him to guard big wing players is neutralizing his strength. I also feel like he has more potential as a passer than Cole.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Bensational]

Yeah it’s pretty clear Suggs sucks almost as much as rookie Trae Young who shot 32% from 3 for his rookie season. And we’ve all seen that Trae is going nowhere and wouldn’t have a chance at sniffing a conference finals on his rookie contract…

Cue “Payton!” and “Kawhi Gordon” comments…

I’m a fan of Suggs but I don’t consider him the franchise cornerstone. I think he’s a good addition for the start of a rebuild. Let’s see if he rises over the next few seasons or someone supplants him. I don’t think we could complain if either eventuates.

[KillMonger]

imagine complaining about a rookie in a rebuilding situation......

[pepe1991]

Yeah it’s pretty clear Suggs sucks almost as much as rookie Trae Young who shot 32% from 3 for his rookie season. And we’ve all seen that Trae is going nowhere and wouldn’t have a chance at sniffing a conference finals on his rookie contract…

Cue “Payton!” and “Kawhi Gordon” comments…

I’m a fan of Suggs but I don’t consider him the franchise cornerstone. I think he’s a good addition for the start of a rebuild. Let’s see if he rises over the next few seasons or someone supplants him. I don’t think we could complain if either eventuates.

How are Suggs & Trae even comparable?
Trae had almost 20 points, +8 assists rookie season on almost 54% TS.
Suggs has 12 points ,4,4 assists, and sits on 46% TS.

In Win share, Trae was 3rd best Atlanta player, even as a rookie, on Orlando, Suggs is the worst.

Trae arived in nba with 2 clear offensive strenghts. Playmaking & ability to draw fouls at ridicilous rate.
Suggs arived in nba with basically zero offensive strenghts and he is only useful as on ball defender.

Payton & Gordon and lesser exstend Hezonja, just like 3 previous years of unhealthy d*** riding of Bamba and blaming everybody but him for his shortcommings are good reminder that player does not have unlimited ceiling just because he joined your favorite team, and after some time, there is clear stagnation in improvment and it's time to accept player for what he is, not what forum wants him to be. We have same situation now with Okeke ( no progress) Cole ( idential player to last version of himself, just bigger usage), RJ Hampton ( guy somehow got even more worthless ). Non of them got better from last year.

Suggs should improve. But even if and when he does, it would require incredible uptick in everything where he will come to be starting level PG on good team.
It is not just shooting. His shooting is just most obvious issue



but it's also ball security, ballhandling, playmaking, and something as simple as pick&roll. On list of nba players, that includes centers, with at least 20 games plays, his percentile in picK&roll is 12... Literally Bam Adebayo and Danilo Galinari are better at pick&rolling as ballhandler than your "point guard".

All this would probably mean much less if Orlando does not already have two guards who are all slotted in same "PG" role despite non of them is good. Cole is chucker who only cares about his box score, Fultz & Suggs can't coexist because they are like Bledsoe & MCW sharing floor.

"You complain about rookie" . Yes , because Frazn, Barnes, Mobley are blueprint that rookies can actually be good or even great.
There was plenty of rookies in past that struggled and got better later. But this is not rookies having some issues, this is rookie being extreamly bad even by rookie standards.

[drsd]

And plenty of guys believed in Bamba, Hezonja, and Payton

And-1

Bamba in 2018: Orlando still had hope for Payton with Augustin backing him up so its was unlikely Orlando drafts Sexton. Bamba had physicality reasons to be drafted over Carter. Actually the only real "dissension" during the draft was over Kevin Knox and Mikal Bridges. Butt, one cannot teach height, as the saying goes (( personally I was a HUGE defender pre-draft of Mr. Trade down ))

Hezonja in 2015: Everyone was in love with this pick when it happened. Re-writing history for what, that Orlando was considering Devin Booker? That would be lying.

Payton in 2014: mostly there was good support for him on draft night. But to be fair, many, many here were believers in Zach LaVine. Still Orlando needed a PG. To re-write history, let's say that Payton had a Okeke-style hair cut in his first three years, maybe he develops fundamental shooting skills. We will never know.

..

[zaymon]

In the end Suggs success should be compared to those behind him. You cant blame yourself for not taking superstar where there is no one left.

Giddey is very good, but his lack of athletecism and scoring limits his ceiling. He has quickness of a forward but no rim protection. ( Suggs has same blocks per game). I was a fan of him before draft but i still wouldnt pick him above Suggs. He will propably always have problems in switching defensive system.

Kuminga is overhyped right now like Barnes was at the beginning of the season. Yes he has elite athletecism..... and skill set of a role player. As much of a star as Wiggins. He is young, he can develop, but right now no flashes of a lead ball handler.

Dosunmu is good, i had him 15 on my board but i wouldnt pick him over Suggs, same with Jones and Williams.

Anyone would pick any of those players before Suggs ? Personally i wouldnt. Suggs has perfect body and attitude to anchor elite defense. If he is premium Marcus Smart thats actually wonderful result. Smart was picked 6th in draft which was seen as very strong at a time ( and ended up being one of the best drafts in history but not at the top)
Believe it or not Suggs has better rookie year than Smart in much worse situation and year is not over yet.

[Magic_Kingdom]

I don't know what Suggs will become. But I think any of us who denies being at least a little disappointed in him so far would be lying. 37% overall FG% and 24% from three is not what we needed from a guard taken at #5.

By comparison, Scottie Barnes, whose pre-draft detractors all cited his shooting, is at 47.5% overall and 31.7% from three.

Barnes, Giddey, Kuminga and Wagner all have much higher PERs than Suggs, and even Giddey has a higher FG% and (slightly) higher 3PT%.

[drsd]

How are Suggs & Trae even comparable?
Trae had almost 20 points, +8 assists rookie season on almost 54% TS.
Suggs has 12 points ,4,4 assists, and sits on 46% TS.

And Suggs can play defense, where as Young has heard it spelled - maybe.


My point to this latter: Atlanta will never be a tittle contender given how flawed Young is as a one-way player.



..

[basketballRob]

Suggs will eventually be an allstar. I should pull up all your evaluations of Franz too before they're deleted.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[tiderulz]

Yeah it’s pretty clear Suggs sucks almost as much as rookie Trae Young who shot 32% from 3 for his rookie season. And we’ve all seen that Trae is going nowhere and wouldn’t have a chance at sniffing a conference finals on his rookie contract…

Cue “Payton!” and “Kawhi Gordon” comments…

I’m a fan of Suggs but I don’t consider him the franchise cornerstone. I think he’s a good addition for the start of a rebuild. Let’s see if he rises over the next few seasons or someone supplants him. I don’t think we could complain if either eventuates.

why do we have to make judgements on players who havent yet played 40 games of their rookie season and had to deal with an injury?

[p0peye]

And plenty of guys believed in Bamba, Hezonja, and Payton

And-1

Bamba in 2018: Orlando still had hope for Payton with Augustin backing him up so its was unlikely Orlando drafts Sexton. Bamba had physicality reasons to be drafted over Carter. Actually the only real "dissension" during the draft was over Kevin Knox and Mikal Bridges. Butt, one cannot teach height, as the saying goes (( personally I was a HUGE defender pre-draft of Mr. Trade down ))

Hezonja in 2015: Everyone was in love with this pick when it happened. Re-writing history for what, that Orlando was considering Devin Booker? That would be lying.

Payton in 2014: mostly there was good support for him on draft night. But to be fair, many, many here were believers in Zach LaVine. Still Orlando needed a PG. To re-write history, let's say that Payton had a Okeke-style hair cut in his first three years, maybe he develops fundamental shooting skills. We will never know.

..

I wanted Exum, but liked Payton as a pick more than AG. Wanted Isaac or DSJ, was OK with Bamba and I was convinced Jokić is not NBA material despite crazy numbers in Europe. Expected Luka to be rich mans Hedo. That's draft, hard to predict, though some picks have appeared as mind-boggling easy such as Thabeet and Benett.

Once they start playing actual NBA games, cracks appear and it comes down to improvement. Some areas are easier to fix than other and after couple of years, it is usually safe to cut your losses before value totally craters. I think late bloomers extremely rarely figure it out in the team that originally drafted them, change of scenery appears to be vital to their career. I don't think Oladipo would have that one standout season in Magic jersey.

[pepe1991]

Suggs will eventually be an allstar. I should pull up all your evaluations of Franz too before they're deleted.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

If you replying to me, one thing i never did, it's deliting posts nor i ever went back to edit them, unlike some other posters . You can still find my pro Hezonja comments, nor i give a damn about it.
I thought Wagner was meh pick and i liked Suggs.
Months later i always say Franz is by default always key reasons why we win any games. Suggs, on other hand hasn't been good.

[basketballRob]

Suggs will eventually be an allstar. I should pull up all your evaluations of Franz too before they're deleted.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

If you replying to me, one thing i never did, it's deliting posts nor i ever went back to edit them, unlike some other posters . You can still find my pro Hezonja comments, nor i give a damn about it.
I thought Wagner was meh pick and i liked Suggs.
Months later i always say Franz is by default always key reasons why we win any games. Suggs, on other hand hasn't been good.

I agree that Suggs hasn't been great shooting the ball in his first 37 games.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[RedStang1969]

Among rookies with greater than 800 minutes played Suggs is 9th out of 18 on Overall total RAPTOR and has been improving since the injury. Many of the people who are complaining about Suggs are the same ones that were dreaming of getting Jalen Green who has a total RAPTOR of -8.5 . Even Cade Cunningham has a total RAPTOR 1.5 points less than Suggs and I definitely would not call him a bust. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

[fendilim]

Nothing really THAT concerning about Suggs yet, IMO.

Yes, there are some bad plays, yet, there are good plays. It is not all bad plays for him, and you can’t discount the fact that he tries. he puts in a lot of effort, and I dont think you can teach that. His motor alone makes up for it, IMO.

Yes, he isn’t that good right now. But I don’t think he is a bust either.

One thing you can hope for in a rookie is he improves every game, and we see that with Suggs. And I think that is a good sign, because that shows his IQ as well.

Now, if he doesnt improve or lessen the errors he makes on year 2, then that would be concerning.

But for the mean, these are growing pains and we have the luxury to afford it. It is not like this team cant afford to have him commit mistakes because we are trying to win.

This season is all about learning.