Offseason Brogdon sweepstakes

[Xman]

I like New Orleans as an option:

New Orleans could build a strong lineup by adding a reliable pg-
pg - Brogdon, (Graham or Kira)
sg - CJ, Murphy
sf - Ingram, HJones
pf - Zion, Nance
c - Val, Hayes

IND sends Brogdon
NO sends - picks (MIL 2025 and 2027 firsts - with top 8 protection added so NO gets benefit if pick hits big) and either Kira or Graham, matching salary combo of (Temple, Hermangomez, NMarshall)

Indy would need some pick incentive - but not a crazy amount since getting expiring contracts. Depending on where draft slots fall, could be a 2022 pick(instead.

[Scoot McGroot]

I like New Orleans as an option:

New Orleans could build a strong lineup by adding a reliable pg-
pg - Brogdon, (Graham or Kira)
sg - CJ, Murphy
sf - Ingram, HJones
pf - Zion, Nance
c - Val, Hayes

IND sends Brogdon
NO sends - picks (MIL 2025 and 2027 firsts - with top 8 protection added so NO gets benefit if pick hits big) and either Kira or Graham, matching salary combo of (Temple, Hermangomez, NMarshall)

Indy would need some pick incentive - but not a crazy amount since getting expiring contracts. Depending on where draft slots fall, could be a 2022 pick(instead.

This up has nothing for Indy. There’s not any use for Kira or Graham in Indy with Haliburton and McConnell at PG, and Duarte/Buddy at the SG spot. Waiting for a long time for picks with essentially no lotto upside (with the protections you suggest) means this offer provides almost nothing at all. I’d imagine this kind of offer doesn’t even elicit discussion going forward for Indy.

[Warriors Analyst]

Wiggins + Warriors 2022 FRP

for

Brogdon, Goga, and Isiah Jackson

This works financially, beefs up the Warriors' secondary ball-handling, and gives them some type of long-term security against Poole leaving in free agency. Not sure how Indiana would feel about this. I'm not entirely sure how the Warriors would feel about this, but my thinking is that I've given the Warriors additional depth and ball-handling while clearing their wing minutes for more Kuminga + Moody + Poole minutes long term.

Curry/Poole/Brogdon
Brogdon/GPII/Poole
Thompson/Moody/Kuminga
Green/Kuminga/Jackson
Looney/Goga/Jackson

This lets the Warriors have less concern as well if Lee, JTA, or OPJ walk.

[pacers33granger]

I like New Orleans as an option:

New Orleans could build a strong lineup by adding a reliable pg-
pg - Brogdon, (Graham or Kira)
sg - CJ, Murphy
sf - Ingram, HJones
pf - Zion, Nance
c - Val, Hayes

IND sends Brogdon
NO sends - picks (MIL 2025 and 2027 firsts - with top 8 protection added so NO gets benefit if pick hits big) and either Kira or Graham, matching salary combo of (Temple, Hermangomez, NMarshall)

Indy would need some pick incentive - but not a crazy amount since getting expiring contracts. Depending on where draft slots fall, could be a 2022 pick(instead.

This up has nothing for Indy. There’s not any use for Kira or Graham in Indy with Haliburton and McConnell at PG, and Duarte/Buddy at the SG spot. Waiting for a long time for picks with essentially no lotto upside (with the protections you suggest) means this offer provides almost nothing at all. I’d imagine this kind of offer doesn’t even elicit discussion going forward for Indy.

I don't think it's all that bad of an offer. I know they're not likely to be good firsts and take a few years to realize, but two firsts of any variety and whatever else we could get swapping Kira/Graham would be fine with me. That said, I don't think Brogdon has a ton of value at this moment.

I am fine keeping him if he accepts more of a role like he had in Milwaukee. He's just not a PG and I'm not into him being a primary ballhandler in any lineups, especially where we're likely to have at least 3 guys who are better at it next year in Hali, TJ, and Lance.

[Scoot McGroot]

Wiggins + Warriors 2022 FRP

for

Brogdon, Goga, and Isiah Jackson

This works financially, beefs up the Warriors' secondary ball-handling, and gives them some type of long-term security against Poole leaving in free agency. Not sure how Indiana would feel about this. I'm not entirely sure how the Warriors would feel about this, but my thinking is that I've given the Warriors additional depth and ball-handling while clearing their wing minutes for more Kuminga + Moody + Poole minutes long term.

Curry/Poole/Brogdon
Brogdon/GPII/Poole
Thompson/Moody/Kuminga
Green/Kuminga/Jackson
Looney/Goga/Jackson

This lets the Warriors have less concern as well if Lee, JTA, or OPJ walk.

That’d be great for GS! They should absolutely do that!

I’m not seeing much if any reason for Indy to trade 2 recent 1st round picks along with Brogdon, though. Like, Goga is probably roughly equal to the Warriors 1st. So, the Pacers include their 22nd overall pick last year and coach’s specific pet project to turn Brogdon into Wiggins? We’ll pass, and likely just try and sign Warren.

[Warriors Analyst]

Wiggins + Warriors 2022 FRP

for

Brogdon, Goga, and Isiah Jackson

This works financially, beefs up the Warriors' secondary ball-handling, and gives them some type of long-term security against Poole leaving in free agency. Not sure how Indiana would feel about this. I'm not entirely sure how the Warriors would feel about this, but my thinking is that I've given the Warriors additional depth and ball-handling while clearing their wing minutes for more Kuminga + Moody + Poole minutes long term.

Curry/Poole/Brogdon
Brogdon/GPII/Poole
Thompson/Moody/Kuminga
Green/Kuminga/Jackson
Looney/Goga/Jackson

This lets the Warriors have less concern as well if Lee, JTA, or OPJ walk.

That’d be great for GS! They should absolutely do that!

I’m not seeing much if any reason for Indy to trade 2 recent 1st round picks along with Brogdon, though. Like, Goga is probably roughly equal to the Warriors 1st. So, the Pacers include their 22nd overall pick last year and coach’s specific pet project to turn Brogdon into Wiggins? We’ll pass, and likely just try and sign Warren.

Is it more palatable if you pull Jackson? I get the sense Goga becomes redundant with Turner/Jackson/Smith as 4/5 types who can all shoot and protect the rim.

My thinking here is that Indiana has to eat Wiggins' money for one year and then have a chance to re-sign him below that contract price. Warren is a good player, but he's got considerable health issues. That should put him below value on the market, but I guess I thought there'd be some merit to the idea of having Hali/Duarte/Wiggins as your backcourt with McConnell/Hield/Warren backing them up.

[Scoot McGroot]

Wiggins + Warriors 2022 FRP

for

Brogdon, Goga, and Isiah Jackson

This works financially, beefs up the Warriors' secondary ball-handling, and gives them some type of long-term security against Poole leaving in free agency. Not sure how Indiana would feel about this. I'm not entirely sure how the Warriors would feel about this, but my thinking is that I've given the Warriors additional depth and ball-handling while clearing their wing minutes for more Kuminga + Moody + Poole minutes long term.

Curry/Poole/Brogdon
Brogdon/GPII/Poole
Thompson/Moody/Kuminga
Green/Kuminga/Jackson
Looney/Goga/Jackson

This lets the Warriors have less concern as well if Lee, JTA, or OPJ walk.

That’d be great for GS! They should absolutely do that!

I’m not seeing much if any reason for Indy to trade 2 recent 1st round picks along with Brogdon, though. Like, Goga is probably roughly equal to the Warriors 1st. So, the Pacers include their 22nd overall pick last year and coach’s specific pet project to turn Brogdon into Wiggins? We’ll pass, and likely just try and sign Warren.

Is it more palatable if you pull Jackson? I get the sense Goga becomes redundant with Turner/Jackson/Smith as 4/5 types who can all shoot and protect the rim.

My thinking here is that Indiana has to eat Wiggins' money for one year and then have a chance to re-sign him below that contract price. Warren is a good player, but he's got considerable health issues. That should put him below value on the market, but I guess I thought there'd be some merit to the idea of having Hali/Duarte/Wiggins as your backcourt with McConnell/Hield/Warren backing them up.

I mean, obviously yes, it’s more palatable, but it’s still not very realistic from at least an Indy perspective.

Sure, Warrens health is an issue, but if he’s healthy, Wiggins can’t keep him off the court. At the least, Wiggins is clearly not a long term piece. If we move Brogdon, I think we’d be looking for long term pieces like we did in Hali for Sabonis. I’m not saying he gets that great of one, but rather that idea that it’s a long term piece.

We also can’t realistically keep Jalen Smith due to Phoenix having declined his rookie contract options. We’re limited to paying no more than his 3rd year and 4th year options would’ve been. I imagine a team gives him a 2 year taxpayer MLE offer and snags him away to see what they can get.

[Topofthekey]

Wiggins + Warriors 2022 FRP

for

Brogdon, Goga, and Isiah Jackson

This works financially, beefs up the Warriors' secondary ball-handling, and gives them some type of long-term security against Poole leaving in free agency. Not sure how Indiana would feel about this. I'm not entirely sure how the Warriors would feel about this, but my thinking is that I've given the Warriors additional depth and ball-handling while clearing their wing minutes for more Kuminga + Moody + Poole minutes long term.

Curry/Poole/Brogdon
Brogdon/GPII/Poole
Thompson/Moody/Kuminga
Green/Kuminga/Jackson
Looney/Goga/Jackson

This lets the Warriors have less concern as well if Lee, JTA, or OPJ walk.

I'm actually somewhat ok with this framework

But including Jackson is definitely a no go. He is, to me, potentially the future 4/5 for Pacers, so he's definitely not being traded as a throw in like this

Besides that, the other problem with this is Pacers is buying high on Wiggins. I've actually been defending him on the TB since at least last season. But his value is probably the highest it's ever been right now

I'd probably look at something like this instead


Brogdon + Hield + Goga

for

Wiggins + Moody + future FRP x2


Warriors will probably also need to negotiate a reasonable extension with Wiggins first prior to the trade. It would suck for any team acquiring Wiggins if he ended up being a one year rental because Knicks or somebody decided to throw a max contract at him

[Warriors Analyst]

Wiggins + Warriors 2022 FRP

for

Brogdon, Goga, and Isiah Jackson

This works financially, beefs up the Warriors' secondary ball-handling, and gives them some type of long-term security against Poole leaving in free agency. Not sure how Indiana would feel about this. I'm not entirely sure how the Warriors would feel about this, but my thinking is that I've given the Warriors additional depth and ball-handling while clearing their wing minutes for more Kuminga + Moody + Poole minutes long term.

Curry/Poole/Brogdon
Brogdon/GPII/Poole
Thompson/Moody/Kuminga
Green/Kuminga/Jackson
Looney/Goga/Jackson

This lets the Warriors have less concern as well if Lee, JTA, or OPJ walk.

I'm actually somewhat ok with this framework

But including Jackson is definitely a no go. He is, to me, potentially the future 4/5 for Pacers, so he's definitely not being traded as a throw in like this

Besides that, the other problem with this is Pacers is buying high on Wiggins. I've actually been defending him on the TB since at least last season. But his value is probably the highest it's ever been right now

I'd probably look at something like this instead


Brogdon + Hield + Goga

for

Wiggins + Moody + future FRP x2


Warriors will probably also need to negotiate a reasonable extension with Wiggins first prior to the trade. It would suck for any team acquiring Wiggins if he ended up being a one year rental because Knicks or somebody decided to throw a max contract at him

I don't think the money works when you get Hield involved in this deal. But yes, I do see how this framework makes more sense. I totally get why you want to keep Jackson. I was thoroughly impressed by him as well.

[Topofthekey]

I don't think the money works when you get Hield involved in this deal. But yes, I do see how this framework makes more sense. I totally get why you want to keep Jackson. I was thoroughly impressed by him as well.

You're right, seems like the money doesn't work if Hield's involved

Easiest way to solve that is to keep Hield out of the deal, but then there would be a glut with Moody incoming to Pacers

We could remove Moody as well, but that's basically the original deal just without Jackson

[Warriors Analyst]

I don't think the money works when you get Hield involved in this deal. But yes, I do see how this framework makes more sense. I totally get why you want to keep Jackson. I was thoroughly impressed by him as well.

You're right, seems like the money doesn't work if Hield's involved

Easiest way to solve that is to keep Hield out of the deal, but then there would be a glut with Moody incoming to Pacers

We could remove Moody as well, but that's basically the original deal just without Jackson

Money works for Wiggins + 2022 FRP with Brogdon + Goga.

[Topofthekey]

I don't think the money works when you get Hield involved in this deal. But yes, I do see how this framework makes more sense. I totally get why you want to keep Jackson. I was thoroughly impressed by him as well.

You're right, seems like the money doesn't work if Hield's involved

Easiest way to solve that is to keep Hield out of the deal, but then there would be a glut with Moody incoming to Pacers

We could remove Moody as well, but that's basically the original deal just without Jackson

Money works for Wiggins + 2022 FRP with Brogdon + Goga.

Yes, that's the trade at its most basic form

But at that point, it's not too interesting for Pacers

They already have 3 picks in the top 35 of the draft. I don't think they want another one. Unless they can trade up or something

Wiggins could end up being a one year rental if someone throws him a big contract. Or he could end up creating a glut if Pacers resign a healthy Warren

The foundation of a workable trade is there, just need to give Pacers some reasons to go for it

[Warriors Analyst]

You're right, seems like the money doesn't work if Hield's involved

Easiest way to solve that is to keep Hield out of the deal, but then there would be a glut with Moody incoming to Pacers

We could remove Moody as well, but that's basically the original deal just without Jackson

Money works for Wiggins + 2022 FRP with Brogdon + Goga.

Yes, that's the trade at its most basic form

But at that point, it's not too interesting for Pacers

They already have 3 picks in the top 35 of the draft. I don't think they want another one. Unless they can trade up or something

Wiggins could end up being a one year rental if someone throws him a big contract. Or he could end up creating a glut if Pacers resign a healthy Warren

The foundation of a workable trade is there, just need to give Pacers some reasons to go for it

I think multiple picks is a good thing. There's a Desmond Bane or Xavier Tillman in the draft every year. Or, say, another Isiah Jackson. To that point, you can also combine picks to trade up for a more desirable slot.

I don't think Wiggins should get a huge contract. I'd be reluctant to pay him more than $25 and if I got the sense that he wanted more than that and was willing to play for a bad team to get that contract, I imagine that Wiggins could have some value as an expiring contract out on the trade market. I like Warren and in a vacuum, I think he's a pretty good player, but I'd be reluctant to plan around him being a healthy part of Indiana's long term core. With that said, I also think that Warren and Wiggins would actually fit together quite well. Wiggins has played a lot of minutes at the 4 recently for the Warriors, especially since Draymond has gone down. Until the recent Warriors' downturn, which seems to have to do a lot with fatigue in the frontcourt, most of the lineups with Wiggins at the 4 have been quite positive.

[dakomish23]

He's going for some picks and a prospect or two.

[Topofthekey]

Money works for Wiggins + 2022 FRP with Brogdon + Goga.

Yes, that's the trade at its most basic form

But at that point, it's not too interesting for Pacers

They already have 3 picks in the top 35 of the draft. I don't think they want another one. Unless they can trade up or something

Wiggins could end up being a one year rental if someone throws him a big contract. Or he could end up creating a glut if Pacers resign a healthy Warren

The foundation of a workable trade is there, just need to give Pacers some reasons to go for it

I think multiple picks is a good thing. There's a Desmond Bane or Xavier Tillman in the draft every year. Or, say, another Isiah Jackson. To that point, you can also combine picks to trade up for a more desirable slot.

I don't think Wiggins should get a huge contract. I'd be reluctant to pay him more than $25 and if I got the sense that he wanted more than that and was willing to play for a bad team to get that contract, I imagine that Wiggins could have some value as an expiring contract out on the trade market. I like Warren and in a vacuum, I think he's a pretty good player, but I'd be reluctant to plan around him being a healthy part of Indiana's long term core. With that said, I also think that Warren and Wiggins would actually fit together quite well. Wiggins has played a lot of minutes at the 4 recently for the Warriors, especially since Draymond has gone down. Until the recent Warriors' downturn, which seems to have to do a lot with fatigue in the frontcourt, most of the lineups with Wiggins at the 4 have been quite positive.

True, having multiple chances to hit in a draft is a good thing

But at the same time, there's probably some kind of threshold where you're only getting diminishing returns when getting more picks in the same draft. I feel that 3 picks in the top 33 is plenty, not sure there is too much benefit in getting more. They could use the additional pick to trade up, but that probably depends on what happens during the draft and whether or not they feel there's someone worth trading up for

I was among the posters who told people on the TB that Wiggins has positive value as a player, so I certainly don't mind seeing him on Pacers. But as Scoot pointed out, he might not be the long term piece Pacers are looking for in a Brogdon trade. Ideally, Pacers trade Brogdon for a player more aligned with Haliburton's timeline. I think Wiggins could possibly be a fit, but I wouldn't want to buy high on him just to find out he's more of a one year rental than a long term piece

[cgf]

He's going for some picks and a prospect or two.

I'd be fine with that being our pick...especially if it's high enough for us to be able to keep our other kids.

[Wizop]

But at the same time, there's probably some kind of threshold where you're only getting diminishing returns when getting more picks in the same draft.

There is a limit to the playing time a team has available for rookies. If the Pacers are offered draft picks, I want them in 2023 not 2022 as three this year is enough.

[dakomish23]

He's going for some picks and a prospect or two.

I'd be fine with that being our pick...especially if it's high enough for us to be able to keep our other kids.

Yeah me too. We should have went after him in 2019 but this organization is dumb as always.

I assume it’s going to some mix of one of the expiring vets, Obi or IQ, pick or two

[Scoot McGroot]

But at the same time, there's probably some kind of threshold where you're only getting diminishing returns when getting more picks in the same draft.

There is a limit to the playing time a team has available for rookies. If the Pacers are offered draft picks, I want them in 2023 not 2022 as three this year is enough.

Could always make a deal where maybe the Cavs first or the Houston 2nd is swapped for a better pick, if the value presents itself. A lot can happen on draft night.

[Wizop]

Could always make a deal where maybe the Cavs first or the Houston 2nd is swapped for a better pick, if the value presents itself. A lot can happen on draft night.

The Houston 2nd is valuable because of the contract flexibility but we did trade a similar pick and a player last year for the 22nd.

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