WOJ: Harden, Millsap for Simmons, Curry, Drummons, Two #1's

[Paradise]

So, it’s Houston’s fault he ended in Brooklyn but doesn’t want to explain why he left the Nets? Lol

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[Prokorov]

After reading all the articles and tweets and listening to the conferences here is my updated take on all this:

1) I don't think it is as bad as anyone is making out. Media is going to go for these guys throats and amplify any drama. I don't blame Harden for leaving. Things turned out different then he envisioned and if he prefered Philly and things arent what he expected here then going to Philly is not something I have any animosity for. These guys are still human and they should be given the opportunity to change their mind without extreme scrunity. It is not selfish to do whats best for you especially with regards to your career, your health, and your family.

I dont think there was some "cold war" between Harden and KD. I don't buy that KD was upset James came in "out of shape". Maybe once the trade seemed realistic KD factored those things in like its one less thing to worry about. But I really doubt he was in some fued with Harden or pissed about things. Maybe frustrated in the moment and taking some shots like "we have guys who want to be here" but these guys have had relationships a while.

The enitre "James was out clubbing" "James came in out of shape" stuff with unnamed sources and quotes that speak to something completely different are nonsense to me and typical media click bait. If true, its likely 5% as big a deal as they make out

2) Harden not filing the paper work on the opt in would have me really concerned for Philly.

Read on Twitter

Even if he 100% plans to opt in, things can change as we saw here. It went from Marks publicly declaring with confidence Harden would sign an extension in camp to a trade midseason. This also gives Harden contract leverage in the offseason. And I would not be eager to give Harden 50+ million for 5 years.

3) The Harden hamstring is concerning.

Read on Twitter

Hurt it bad last season, missed games... tweaked it twice in the regular season and had to sit out. Coudlnt do much offseason work due to rehab. Came in out of shape and was abused for 40 mpg by Nash. Eventually played into shape and looked good for a month before aggrivating it and looking like Fat deron williams his last few weeks here. people say he was tanking but he looked bad way before any trade rumors. He was clearly slowed even when engaged. And now with Philly we know its a real injury since he will end up missing at least 5 games with sixers.

At his age, not being Kobe/Jordan like with training, and a hammy thats prone to flare up... id be concerned about his long term ability to be a top 8-12 player. The one silver lining is Doc wont ride him like Nash did and wont be scared to tell him he isnt playing. Apperantly harden over ruled nash and the perfromance team more then once this year in addition to last years playoffs.

4) Long term no matter how it turns out this was a good move for us. We hedged the future with a 25 year old all-star, added some picks so we arent bare and have trade capital, and added an elite off-ball shooter to give us insurance on Harris. Kyrie/KD with Ben is still another 1-2 years of high end championship window and we remain star relevant.

I'm happy with where we are now and the next 2-4 years.

[Prokorov]

As far as Ben's "Mental Health" its whatever it is... and he seems to be addressing it which is good.

The idea that environment related stress and isnt quickly overcome once the environment changes is pure ignorance from entitled people who have never been in the situation. Having Bosses/Co-workers you are scared of/have issues with/is toxic can lead to extreme stress and anxiety and the #1 way to alleviate stress is to remove the source of stress.

Not having to join a locker room with Embiid (even if simmons was the problem in that relaitonship) could be removing a stress that leads to instance relief.

[MrDollarBills]

After reading all the articles and tweets and listening to the conferences here is my updated take on all this:

1) I don't think it is as bad as anyone is making out. Media is going to go for these guys throats and amplify any drama. I don't blame Harden for leaving. Things turned out different then he envisioned and if he prefered Philly and things arent what he expected here then going to Philly is not something I have any animosity for. These guys are still human and they should be given the opportunity to change their mind without extreme scrunity. It is not selfish to do whats best for you especially with regards to your career, your health, and your family.

I dont think there was some "cold war" between Harden and KD. I don't buy that KD was upset James came in "out of shape". Maybe once the trade seemed realistic KD factored those things in like its one less thing to worry about. But I really doubt he was in some fued with Harden or pissed about things. Maybe frustrated in the moment and taking some shots like "we have guys who want to be here" but these guys have had relationships a while.

The enitre "James was out clubbing" "James came in out of shape" stuff with unnamed sources and quotes that speak to something completely different are nonsense to me and typical media click bait. If true, its likely 5% as big a deal as they make out

2) Harden not filing the paper work on the opt in would have me really concerned for Philly.

Read on Twitter

Even if he 100% plans to opt in, things can change as we saw here. It went from Marks publicly declaring with confidence Harden would sign an extension in camp to a trade midseason. This also gives Harden contract leverage in the offseason. And I would not be eager to give Harden 50+ million for 5 years.

3) The Harden hamstring is concerning.

Read on Twitter

Hurt it bad last season, missed games... tweaked it twice in the regular season and had to sit out. Coudlnt do much offseason work due to rehab. Came in out of shape and was abused for 40 mpg by Nash. Eventually played into shape and looked good for a month before aggrivating it and looking like Fat deron williams his last few weeks here. people say he was tanking but he looked bad way before any trade rumors. He was clearly slowed even when engaged. And now with Philly we know its a real injury since he will end up missing at least 5 games with sixers.

At his age, not being Kobe/Jordan like with training, and a hammy thats prone to flare up... id be concerned about his long term ability to be a top 8-12 player. The one silver lining is Doc wont ride him like Nash did and wont be scared to tell him he isnt playing. Apperantly harden over ruled nash and the perfromance team more then once this year in addition to last years playoffs.

4) Long term no matter how it turns out this was a good move for us. We hedged the future with a 25 year old all-star, added some picks so we arent bare and have trade capital, and added an elite off-ball shooter to give us insurance on Harris. Kyrie/KD with Ben is still another 1-2 years of high end championship window and we remain star relevant.

I'm happy with where we are now and the next 2-4 years.

Despite the absolute disaster that has happened over the last few weeks, there are signs for optimism. The numbers in NYC continue to plummet dramatically...I would be stunned if we don't see the mandate lifted next month as we push towards spring. Seth and Drummond look like perfect fits. Ben is practicing and ramping up, KD will probably back in early March.

If we can get everything to fall in place, Marks will look like a genius.

I have no ill will towards Harden. Don't blame him for wanting out. But this may very well end up making us a better team in the long run.

[TheNetsFan]

Read on Twitter

[MrDollarBills]

As far as Ben's "Mental Health" its whatever it is... and he seems to be addressing it which is good.

The idea that environment related stress and isnt quickly overcome once the environment changes is pure ignorance from entitled people who have never been in the situation. Having Bosses/Co-workers you are scared of/have issues with/is toxic can lead to extreme stress and anxiety and the #1 way to alleviate stress is to remove the source of stress.

Not having to join a locker room with Embiid (even if simmons was the problem in that relaitonship) could be removing a stress that leads to instance relief.

The locker room is now full of guys who want to be here or have something to prove. Seems like this will be a good place for Ben when you consider the personalities here. Blake was in Ben's ear a lot last night on the bench. Patty is like an older brother to him. I can't speak on whatever happened in Philly, but he's not in a hostile environment here.

[MrDollarBills]

Read on Twitter

This is going to be a real test for Ben because that arena is going to be violently hostile.

[Prokorov]

As far as Ben's "Mental Health" its whatever it is... and he seems to be addressing it which is good.

The idea that environment related stress and isnt quickly overcome once the environment changes is pure ignorance from entitled people who have never been in the situation. Having Bosses/Co-workers you are scared of/have issues with/is toxic can lead to extreme stress and anxiety and the #1 way to alleviate stress is to remove the source of stress.

Not having to join a locker room with Embiid (even if simmons was the problem in that relaitonship) could be removing a stress that leads to instance relief.

The locker room is now full of guys who want to be here or have something to prove. Seems like this will be a good place for Ben when you consider the personalities here. Blake was in Ben's ear a lot last night on the bench. Patty is like an older brother to him. I can't speak on whatever happened in Philly, but he's not in a hostile environment here.

He has all the support in the world and 2 guys that the media has attacked for years. no one better to help him navigate that then Kyrie and KD. Blake/Patty all the better, LMA too. Nash off-court probably helps

[Prokorov]

Read on Twitter

This is going to be a real test for Ben because that arena is going to be violently hostile.

Good, better to get it out of the way early.

[XtremeDunkz]

Read on Twitter

This is going to be a real test for Ben because that arena is going to be violently hostile.

This will easily be the biggest real rivalry the NBA has seen in a long long time.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

[Paradise]

Read on Twitter

This is going to be a real test for Ben because that arena is going to be violently hostile.

Ben has the luxury of relying on Ky’s experience with the hostile Boston fans and KD’s experience returning to OKC to lean on.

I don’t think any other teams have a combination of guys who’s experienced what Ben is dealing with and about to experience.

[Netaman]

I agree with most of the analysis that was written in the last several posts with 1 exception:

**** Harden. it is his right as a player to opt out of his contract, and since it's the NBA it's certainly his right to communicate to the team that he intends to do so and would prefer to be traded to the destination of his choosing.

it is not a professional athlete's right to be out of shape because they aren't happy.
or to not give effort.
or to passive aggressively poison a lockeroom.
(all things he's now done twice in the last 18 months)

it wasn't right when kidd had his migraine either.

None of us know for sure but there's plenty of suggestion that Harden had a heavy hand in ending up in Brooklyn in the first place, and that context matters. he wasn't a victim here.
https://theathletic.com/3124556/2022/02/11/nets-sixers-trade-the-cautionary-tale-of-james-harden-getting-what-the-beard-wants-nicks-and-all/

Again - I get that he had buyer's remorse. I certainly get that he had the ability to get to FA this summer. So tell Sean Marks in confidence that you are not opting in and don't intend to resign. Go ahead and give him a preferred destination. But remain a PROFESSIONAL on the court while that plays itself out.

In the end I concur with the analysis that his physical breakdown is concerning - especially in the face of a massive extension. So in the end i think the nets ended up better off, or at least with a full mulligan on the original deal. But that doesn't change the fact that I'd rather see just about anyone in the east win a championship than him because of how he acted, and i'd bet most in the nets org feel the same way.

[MrDollarBills]

So, it’s Houston’s fault he ended in Brooklyn but doesn’t want to explain why he left the Nets? Lol

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

It's fine. Both teams benefit from him leaving. I'm more excited to see Ben and KD together and eventually Kyrie full time once the mandate ends.

[Jay555]

Nah, What Harden said in the presser was just him trying to make Philly fans happy. We will never know why he left.

As MDB said, this trade made both teams better. Everyone got what they wanted. Just gotta move on.

Can't wait for the Nets vs 76ers matchup in the playoffs. (Before that, Bucks need to be knocked out by one of them)

[gigantes]

...it is not a professional athlete's right to be out of shape because they aren't happy.
or to not give effort.
or to passive aggressively poison a lockeroom.
(all things he's now done twice in the last 18 months) i'd bet most in the nets org feel the same way.
...

(pardon the snippage, was a long post)

This very much reflects my thoughts on the Beard after the past couple days' articles. Up until then, I felt like his attitude was fairly understandable, and a lot of it likely due to Kyrie's disappearance and Nash overplaying him. Now I'm less inclined to care in the face of his lack of professionalism going back to his summer preparation. (which evidently involved little beyond rehabbing)

Bigger issue to me is that the guy seemingly wanted Brooklyn (and/or Philly) on a whim (seemingly a couple good offseason workouts with KD & Kyrie), and evidently started pouting surprisingly early in the process over the fact that he wasn't more of the primary focus on O. And I understand having a change of heart about BRK and rightfully being open to free agency, but dogging it on the court, partying hard after games, then catching up with the team late is just rubbish behavior to me, and an understandable reason why teammates would start to resent his special treatment.

[MrDollarBills]

...it is not a professional athlete's right to be out of shape because they aren't happy.
or to not give effort.
or to passive aggressively poison a lockeroom.
(all things he's now done twice in the last 18 months) i'd bet most in the nets org feel the same way.
...

(pardon the snippage, was a long post)

This very much reflects my thoughts on the Beard after the past couple days' articles. Up until then, I felt like his attitude was fairly understandable, and a lot of it likely due to Kyrie's disappearance and Nash overplaying him. Now I'm less inclined to care in the face of his lack of professionalism going back to his summer preparation. (which evidently involved little beyond rehabbing)

Bigger issue to me is that the guy seemingly wanted Brooklyn (and/or Philly) on a whim (seemingly a couple good offseason workouts with KD & Kyrie), and evidently started pouting surprisingly early in the process over the fact that he wasn't more of the primary focus on O. And I understand having a change of heart about BRK and rightfully being open to free agency, but dogging it on the court, partying hard after games, then catching up with the team late is just rubbish behavior to me, and an understandable reason why teammates would start to resent his special treatment.

My thing is, why not go to Philly in the first place? Makes no sense.

Whatever. He's Philly's problem now. No hard feelings, I like what we have here.

[Netaman]

My thing is, why not go to Philly in the first place? Makes no sense.

Whatever. He's Philly's problem now. No hard feelings, I like what we have here.

remember he's never won a championship - so my guess would be he thought that was the easiest path to a championship.

my theory on harden this year is that his own play is the biggest source of his frustration. he is clearly getting more dinged up. the officials are calling games different so he's not getting to the FT line. he's not shooting great. but instead of dealing with that it's easier to think the grass is greener elsewhere.

[gigantes]

My thing is, why not go to Philly in the first place? Makes no sense.

Whatever. He's Philly's problem now. No hard feelings, I like what we have here.

remember he's never won a championship - so my guess would be he thought that was the easiest path to a championship.

my theory on harden this year is that his own play is the biggest source of his frustration. he is clearly getting more dinged up. the officials are calling games different so he's not getting to the FT line. he's not shooting great. but instead of dealing with that it's easier to think the grass is greener elsewhere.

I may have already said this here, but I think the Nets just dodged a huge bullet with the trade, and were incredibly lucky to get solid value in return. Because a supermax contract with BRK likely turns in to a disaster via any combination of aging out of his prime, increasing injury issues, continued mediocre fit with Durant, and then whatever passive-aggressiveness Harden brings.

Like LeBron, KD and others, Beard had an opportunity to make conditioning and diet a fundamental part of his game, which almost certainly is helping to extend the others' primes. Well... f-ck around and find out, James. Actually I suspect it's going to be the Sixers who pay 99% of that price, not him.


Why not go to Philly directly? My impression is that Harden insisted on either the Nets or Philly (and it sure did sound like the Nets were his 1A choice), and now he's just spinning a new narrative. That said, putting the two teams in a bidding war wound up working out splendidly for the Rox, particularly if Fertita never had any intention of dealing with Morey, anyway.

I have to think that trade was Marks' single worst move as a GM, even worse than hiring Nash.

[GTR11]

My thing is, why not go to Philly in the first place? Makes no sense.

Whatever. He's Philly's problem now. No hard feelings, I like what we have here.

remember he's never won a championship - so my guess would be he thought that was the easiest path to a championship.

my theory on harden this year is that his own play is the biggest source of his frustration. he is clearly getting more dinged up. the officials are calling games different so he's not getting to the FT line. he's not shooting great. but instead of dealing with that it's easier to think the grass is greener elsewhere.

I may have already said this here, but I think the Nets just dodged a huge bullet with the trade, and were incredibly lucky to get solid value in return. Because a supermax contract with BRK likely turns in to a disaster via any combination of aging out of his prime, increasing injury issues, continued mediocre fit with Durant, and then whatever passive-aggressiveness Harden brings.

Like LeBron, KD and others, Beard had an opportunity to make conditioning and diet a fundamental part of his game, which almost certainly is helping to extend the others' primes. Well... f-ck around and find out, James. Actually I suspect it's going to be the Sixers who pay 99% of that price, not him.


Why not go to Philly directly? My impression is that Harden insisted on either the Nets or Philly (and it sure did sound like the Nets were his 1A choice), and now he's just spinning a new narrative. That said, putting the two teams in a bidding war wound up working out splendidly for the Rox, particularly if Fertita never had any intention of dealing with Morey, anyway.

I have to think that trade was Marks' single worst move as a GM, even worse than hiring Nash.

Losing them 3 picks definitely hurt. However getting Ben and Curry at the end was worth the gamble here. Ben same age as Allen and definitely better player, Curry for LeVert is a push due to LeVert's availability and fit. Picks is what balanced entire thing here.

Nash remains biggest WTF to me. Guy never logged a damn min being a coach yet gets top gig why exactly?

[gigantes]

remember he's never won a championship - so my guess would be he thought that was the easiest path to a championship.

my theory on harden this year is that his own play is the biggest source of his frustration. he is clearly getting more dinged up. the officials are calling games different so he's not getting to the FT line. he's not shooting great. but instead of dealing with that it's easier to think the grass is greener elsewhere.

I may have already said this here, but I think the Nets just dodged a huge bullet with the trade, and were incredibly lucky to get solid value in return. Because a supermax contract with BRK likely turns in to a disaster via any combination of aging out of his prime, increasing injury issues, continued mediocre fit with Durant, and then whatever passive-aggressiveness Harden brings.

Like LeBron, KD and others, Beard had an opportunity to make conditioning and diet a fundamental part of his game, which almost certainly is helping to extend the others' primes. Well... f-ck around and find out, James. Actually I suspect it's going to be the Sixers who pay 99% of that price, not him.


Why not go to Philly directly? My impression is that Harden insisted on either the Nets or Philly (and it sure did sound like the Nets were his 1A choice), and now he's just spinning a new narrative. That said, putting the two teams in a bidding war wound up working out splendidly for the Rox, particularly if Fertita never had any intention of dealing with Morey, anyway.

I have to think that trade was Marks' single worst move as a GM, even worse than hiring Nash.

Losing them 3 picks definitely hurt. However getting Ben and Curry at the end was worth the gamble here. Ben same age as Allen and definitely better player, Curry for LeVert is a push due to LeVert's availability and fit. Picks is what balanced entire thing here.

Nash remains biggest WTF to me. Guy never logged a damn min being a coach yet gets top gig why exactly?

Yes, I said it was a good salvage with Philly, but I was talking about the original trade. It was expensive, ultra-risky, and was on track to turn in to a disaster via either Harden walking or re-upping. Could have wound up hard-cappinh the Nets ceiling for most of the decade.

So Harden wanting out was a blessing in disguise to me.

Nash isn't nearly as bad to me, because he can be fired at any time (how about it, Sean?) with no loss of resources or hit to the cap. A vastly easier problem to fix.