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Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 3

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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 3 

Post#601 » by AirP. » Thu Feb 17, 2022 4:42 am

eddieheatfan wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
Read on Twitter


Dude is really going to come back at full strength for the first time in years and be everything we’ve been missing and our 3rd best player
didnt look injured to me at any rate i'm rooting for him to come back strong :pray:

It was repaired but repaired wrong, Oladipo has mentioned that he's finally pain free after this recent surgery meaning he's been in pain since the first surgery.

Oladipo was just in a bad position, either try to play with the pain to try to get his next contract or have another surgery to fix it and miss on his next contract for a year or more (he may have to do a prove it year and that puts him into his early 30s) but luckily for Miami he reinjured it before his contract ended so they and didn't pay him then possibly have him out a year on a high salary.

I just hope to see most of his athletic ability back which means he should be able to play really good defense, he may be "off" on offense because he's rusty but I trust he'll put in the work to get back to whatever his new peak is in after a summer of work.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 3 

Post#602 » by KingDavid » Thu Feb 17, 2022 5:16 am

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Noticed this multiple times last night.

Soon

As happy as that would make me, it will never happen. Cuban would burn the association to the ground before he'd allow Doncic to leave AND come to Miami lol.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 3 

Post#603 » by somerandomdude » Thu Feb 17, 2022 11:01 am

Wiretap:

The Heat will have full Bird rights for Oladipo


Can't believe I've never thought about Oladipo as a trade piece (if he shows he's worth a big contract). I guess I just figured he'd leave cuz we won't be able to afford him, but he'll need to be S&T'd if a team is over the cap.

Considering his age, a mid/upper tier team is the most likely destination for him.

Assuming we don't keep him, this could be a way of getting rid of Duncan without giving up anything (or at least anything of value). If Duncan turns it around (change of scenery could help), this would be a good package for some team. A 44% 3pt shooting Duncan really helps and virtually guarantees a win if he's hot.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 3 

Post#604 » by HeatingUp3 » Thu Feb 17, 2022 11:07 am

It's a little frustrating watching Bane and Maxey. And we picked Precious lol.
There was a great hype about Bane and I was really high on Maxey.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 3 

Post#605 » by RexBoyWonder » Thu Feb 17, 2022 11:22 am

HeatingUp3 wrote:It's a little frustrating watching Bane and Maxey. And we picked Precious lol.
There was a great hype about Bane and I was really high on Maxey.


I really underestimated Bane. I though he was an old rookie with a good outside shot and nothing more. He turned out to be a great shooter with a more versatile scoring game, and a very good defender. Obviously much more useful player then Precious, even if Bane never had a star ceiling.

Maxey in hindsight is a bit wired - a Wildcat, athletic, good defender, hard worker, at a position of need. You'd think he would've been an obvious choice for us, that's the classic Heat pick.

But for some reason we went for the VERY raw, tweener big in Precious despite having Bam playing his exact position and role.
We **** up that draft.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 3 

Post#606 » by twix2500 » Thu Feb 17, 2022 12:40 pm

RexBoyWonder wrote:
HeatingUp3 wrote:It's a little frustrating watching Bane and Maxey. And we picked Precious lol.
There was a great hype about Bane and I was really high on Maxey.


I really underestimated Bane. I though he was an old rookie with a good outside shot and nothing more. He turned out to be a great shooter with a more versatile scoring game, and a very good defender. Obviously much more useful player then Precious, even if Bane never had a star ceiling.

Maxey in hindsight is a bit wired - a Wildcat, athletic, good defender, hard worker, at a position of need. You'd think he would've been an obvious choice for us, that's the classic Heat pick.

But for some reason we went for the VERY raw, tweener big in Precious despite having Bam playing his exact position and role.
We **** up that draft.
Good chance they would of traded either one regardless. We will never know how well Precious would of developed under the Heat system. But regardless every player has been used as a trade pawn outside of Bam and Butler.

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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 3 

Post#607 » by twix2500 » Thu Feb 17, 2022 1:35 pm

With the attempt to teach Bam to be aggressive. Bam, Herro and Butler need to learn how to complement each other with taking offense aggression from each other and how to play off of each other.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 3 

Post#608 » by DayofMourning » Thu Feb 17, 2022 1:36 pm

We've had a long history of first round flameouts on draft picks. Should make us appreciate Bam and Herro more.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 3 

Post#609 » by MettaWorldPanda » Thu Feb 17, 2022 3:09 pm

Tyler Herro is a clear alpha scorer on this team and deserves to be in the starting lineup. Players like Lowry, Butler, and Bam want to defer and need someone like Tyler not Duncan. The whole Duncan and Bam DHO has been played out. Ok great that Duncan can run his defender all over the place like a chicken without a head but I'd rather have my two guard just be able to take on his man and either break him down with a shot or take it to the rack. Same goes for when Oladipo comes back healthy. Having a 1-2 scoring punch of Tyler and Oladipo at the two guard is exactly what this team needs. I don't see how Duncan plays over either of them. Maybe you can find Duncan some spot minutes at the backup 3 spot but I'm guessing Caleb Martin might have something to say about that. Spo is going to have to do some soul searching during the break with the impending return of Oladipo looking to be right around the corner.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 3 

Post#610 » by MettaWorldPanda » Thu Feb 17, 2022 3:17 pm

Goran Dragic will be clearing waivers today at 5pm. We will find out if he will be returning to us or signing with another team shortly after. It' possible the Heat can wait until tomorrow to announce anything since it's more likely then not they want to try and squeeze this last game before the break with Haywood Highsmith on the roster. Either way Goran will not be waiting long to sign with new team since every day that passes will cost him money and it looks like he strategically planned his buyout to coincide with his prorated deal.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 3 

Post#611 » by twix2500 » Thu Feb 17, 2022 3:34 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:Tyler Herro is a clear alpha scorer on this team and deserves to be in the starting lineup. Players like Lowry, Butler, and Bam want to defer and need someone like Tyler not Duncan. The whole Duncan and Bam DHO has been played out. Ok great that Duncan can run his defender all over the place like a chicken without a head but I'd rather have my two guard just be able to take on his man and either break him down with a shot or take it to the rack. Same goes for when Oladipo comes back healthy. Having a 1-2 scoring punch of Tyler and Oladipo at the two guard is exactly what this team needs. I don't see how Duncan plays over either of them. Maybe you can find Duncan some spot minutes at the backup 3 spot but I'm guessing Caleb Martin might have something to say about that. Spo is going to have to do some soul searching during the break with the impending return of Oladipo looking to be right around the corner.
So basically you are saying you want Butler and Bam to reduce their attempts for Tyler. You want Tyler to be the number one guy on this team. And Duncan share the shots with the second unit?

I do not bring up Herro efficiency but you got to do the math.

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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 3 

Post#612 » by IceColdCubano » Thu Feb 17, 2022 3:55 pm

twix2500 wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:Tyler Herro is a clear alpha scorer on this team and deserves to be in the starting lineup. Players like Lowry, Butler, and Bam want to defer and need someone like Tyler not Duncan. The whole Duncan and Bam DHO has been played out. Ok great that Duncan can run his defender all over the place like a chicken without a head but I'd rather have my two guard just be able to take on his man and either break him down with a shot or take it to the rack. Same goes for when Oladipo comes back healthy. Having a 1-2 scoring punch of Tyler and Oladipo at the two guard is exactly what this team needs. I don't see how Duncan plays over either of them. Maybe you can find Duncan some spot minutes at the backup 3 spot but I'm guessing Caleb Martin might have something to say about that. Spo is going to have to do some soul searching during the break with the impending return of Oladipo looking to be right around the corner.
So basically you are saying you want Butler and Bam to reduce their attempts for Tyler. You want Tyler to be the number one guy on this team. And Duncan share the shots with the second unit?

I do not bring up Herro efficiency but you got to do the math.

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To be fair, in the context of things. Most high scoring bench players have mediocre efficiency, there have been a few of them through the years that are the exception. This is mostly due to playing with other players who don't take much defensive pressure away from you like the starters will keep their defenders honest most of the time.

However in my Opinion, Hero has been very sloppy with his handle this year, there have been games where he seems locked in and making the right plays and others not so much. Perhaps it's because he was given full reign of the bench mob so he feels like isn't needed to be held to a standard as long as he is putting up points vs the opposing bench. Whatever the case is he will need to clean it up, before given the opportunity to play as a starter. His defense also needs to improve, like Duncan he will be targeted on switches all game taken to the rack or backed into the basket. His only benefit is that when his shot is not falling behind the arch, he can still take his man off the dribble unlike Duncan, and he is pretty decent at setting up team mates off the bounce. Additionally with better offensive players beside him as a starter theirs more opportunity for cleaner assist.

The math still stays the same, its not about Jim, Low, Bam to lose shot attempts its staggering them for those to stay the same. Hero can still get 8-12 attempts surrounded by starters same as Duncan would, and then put up another 3-6 either being sat earlier and brought out with the bench for a few minutes or left out longer and give the others more rest. Its about balancing the shot attempts in not about reducing them.

I will say that when he does start sometimes or is out there with starters, our team does have a bad habit of giving him the ball with the shot clock winding down as last prayer attempt from him. They don't involve him in early into the shot clock like they purposely with Duncan on sets to get him going with some three bombs. I think it does have something to do with our offensive game plan centered around Duncan or 3pt shooting and they go away from that when Hero is in the game.

Whatever the case there's some game plan adjustments needed from the team, coaching staff, and Hero ultimately for him to transition into a starter. lets see how it plays out next year, I expect more things from both him and the team as a whole.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 3 

Post#613 » by JLop » Thu Feb 17, 2022 4:03 pm

KingDavid wrote:
Spoiler:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Noticed this multiple times last night.

Soon

As happy as that would make me, it will never happen. Cuban would burn the association to the ground before he'd allow Doncic to leave AND come to Miami lol.

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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 3 

Post#614 » by KingDavid » Thu Feb 17, 2022 4:05 pm

JLop wrote:
KingDavid wrote:
Spoiler:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Noticed this multiple times last night.

Soon

As happy as that would make me, it will never happen. Cuban would burn the association to the ground before he'd allow Doncic to leave AND come to Miami lol.

Image

:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 3 

Post#615 » by JLop » Thu Feb 17, 2022 4:10 pm

KingDavid wrote:
JLop wrote:
KingDavid wrote:
Spoiler:

As happy as that would make me, it will never happen. Cuban would burn the association to the ground before he'd allow Doncic to leave AND come to Miami lol.

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:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

I would pay just to see Cuban's face if this happens.

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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 3 

Post#616 » by twix2500 » Thu Feb 17, 2022 4:32 pm

IceColdCubano wrote:
twix2500 wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:Tyler Herro is a clear alpha scorer on this team and deserves to be in the starting lineup. Players like Lowry, Butler, and Bam want to defer and need someone like Tyler not Duncan. The whole Duncan and Bam DHO has been played out. Ok great that Duncan can run his defender all over the place like a chicken without a head but I'd rather have my two guard just be able to take on his man and either break him down with a shot or take it to the rack. Same goes for when Oladipo comes back healthy. Having a 1-2 scoring punch of Tyler and Oladipo at the two guard is exactly what this team needs. I don't see how Duncan plays over either of them. Maybe you can find Duncan some spot minutes at the backup 3 spot but I'm guessing Caleb Martin might have something to say about that. Spo is going to have to do some soul searching during the break with the impending return of Oladipo looking to be right around the corner.
So basically you are saying you want Butler and Bam to reduce their attempts for Tyler. You want Tyler to be the number one guy on this team. And Duncan share the shots with the second unit?

I do not bring up Herro efficiency but you got to do the math.

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To be fair, in the context of things. Most high scoring bench players have mediocre efficiency, there have been a few of them through the years that are the exception. This is mostly due to playing with other players who don't take much defensive pressure away from you like the starters will keep their defenders honest most of the time.

However in my Opinion, Hero has been very sloppy with his handle this year, there have been games where he seems locked in and making the right plays and others not so much. Perhaps it's because he was given full reign of the bench mob so he feels like isn't needed to be held to a standard as long as he is putting up points vs the opposing bench. Whatever the case is he will need to clean it up, before given the opportunity to play as a starter. His defense also needs to improve, like Duncan he will be targeted on switches all game taken to the rack or backed into the basket. His only benefit is that when his shot is not falling behind the arch, he can still take his man off the dribble unlike Duncan, and he is pretty decent at setting up team mates off the bounce. Additionally with better offensive players beside him as a starter theirs more opportunity for cleaner assist.

The math still stays the same, its not about Jim, Low, Bam to lose shot attempts its staggering them for those to stay the same. Hero can still get 8-12 attempts surrounded by starters same as Duncan would, and then put up another 3-6 either being sat earlier and brought out with the bench for a few minutes or left out longer and give the others more rest. Its about balancing the shot attempts in not about reducing them.

I will say that when he does start sometimes or is out there with starters, our team does have a bad habit of giving him the ball with the shot clock winding down as last prayer attempt from him. They don't involve him in early into the shot clock like they purposely with Duncan on sets to get him going with some three bombs. I think it does have something to do with our offensive game plan centered around Duncan or 3pt shooting and they go away from that when Hero is in the game.

Whatever the case there's some game plan adjustments needed from the team, coaching staff, and Hero ultimately for him to transition into a starter. lets see how it plays out next year, I expect more things from both him and the team as a whole.
The point of him coming off the bench is to stagger him. Its to allow him to get shots without taking shots away from Bam and Butler. And if you are taking ball handling from him because you want Lowry and Butler to handle now he just a spot up shooter.

You can not have everything happen all at once. Its a give and take situation. Duncan and Tucker are in the starting lineup because they do not take away usage from Bam, Butler and Lowry. Those two positions are for low usage off ball players.

Basically putting him in the starting lineup is saying you want him to have MORE mins with Bam, Butler and Lowry together. For what? To stand in the corner or take the ball away from one or two of the three?

And I know some just want him to start for bragging rights. I'm not debating with those people. Thats just whatever.

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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 3 

Post#617 » by MettaWorldPanda » Thu Feb 17, 2022 4:43 pm

twix2500 wrote:
IceColdCubano wrote:
twix2500 wrote:So basically you are saying you want Butler and Bam to reduce their attempts for Tyler. You want Tyler to be the number one guy on this team. And Duncan share the shots with the second unit?

I do not bring up Herro efficiency but you got to do the math.

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To be fair, in the context of things. Most high scoring bench players have mediocre efficiency, there have been a few of them through the years that are the exception. This is mostly due to playing with other players who don't take much defensive pressure away from you like the starters will keep their defenders honest most of the time.

However in my Opinion, Hero has been very sloppy with his handle this year, there have been games where he seems locked in and making the right plays and others not so much. Perhaps it's because he was given full reign of the bench mob so he feels like isn't needed to be held to a standard as long as he is putting up points vs the opposing bench. Whatever the case is he will need to clean it up, before given the opportunity to play as a starter. His defense also needs to improve, like Duncan he will be targeted on switches all game taken to the rack or backed into the basket. His only benefit is that when his shot is not falling behind the arch, he can still take his man off the dribble unlike Duncan, and he is pretty decent at setting up team mates off the bounce. Additionally with better offensive players beside him as a starter theirs more opportunity for cleaner assist.

The math still stays the same, its not about Jim, Low, Bam to lose shot attempts its staggering them for those to stay the same. Hero can still get 8-12 attempts surrounded by starters same as Duncan would, and then put up another 3-6 either being sat earlier and brought out with the bench for a few minutes or left out longer and give the others more rest. Its about balancing the shot attempts in not about reducing them.

I will say that when he does start sometimes or is out there with starters, our team does have a bad habit of giving him the ball with the shot clock winding down as last prayer attempt from him. They don't involve him in early into the shot clock like they purposely with Duncan on sets to get him going with some three bombs. I think it does have something to do with our offensive game plan centered around Duncan or 3pt shooting and they go away from that when Hero is in the game.

Whatever the case there's some game plan adjustments needed from the team, coaching staff, and Hero ultimately for him to transition into a starter. lets see how it plays out next year, I expect more things from both him and the team as a whole.
The point of him coming off the bench is to stagger him. Its to allow him to get shots without taking shots away from Bam and Butler. And if you are taking ball handling from him because you want Lowry and Butler to handle now he just a spot up shooter.

You can not have everything happen all at once. Its a give and take situation. Duncan and Tucker are in the starting lineup because they do not take away usage from Bam, Butler and Lowry. Those two positions are for low usage off ball players.

Basically putting him in the starting lineup is saying you want him to have MORE mins with Bam, Butler and Lowry together. For what? To stand in the corner or take the ball away from one or two of the three?

And I know some just want him to start for bragging rights. I'm not debating with those people. Thats just whatever.

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Does your theory hold weight when Tyler is in the closing lineup more times then not with the starters? The whole starting Duncan or his importance with the starters has jumped the shark already. It comes off as a pity move not to hurt Duncan mentally or having to start his contract.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 3 

Post#618 » by AirP. » Thu Feb 17, 2022 4:46 pm

IceColdCubano wrote:To be fair, in the context of things. Most high scoring bench players have mediocre efficiency, there have been a few of them through the years that are the exception. This is mostly due to playing with other players who don't take much defensive pressure away from you like the starters will keep their defenders honest most of the time.

This is why they're usually scoring bench players, because they're not consistent which leads to being not very efficient. Herro takes some ridiculous uncalled for bad shots even when the game is tight. For instance... on the road, up by 4 with about 6 minutes left with Butler and Bam out he takes a 27 foot shot against 4 defenders with 20 seconds on the shot. What's even crazier then this shot is that the announcers mentioned that Spoelstra had a talk with Herro about bad shot selections from the previous game in Golden State where he went 7 for 23.
Spoiler:
Image

Herro could be way more efficient if he didn't do #)($) like this but he does. Herro is working on his skills, he's gotten better offensively but the rate of his ridiculous/bad shots has went up and with that has dropped his efficiency. At this point he's a style over substance type of player and even though he's working on his game and plays hard, he's self sabotaging himself and the team. Herro could be a much more impactful player if he just cut out some of the horrible decisions. I just don't think there's a good enough chance he settles down, it's not who he is, but who he is got him to where he currently is.

So I'm with the people on Herro's upside, I just happen to think his mentality will always hold him back and that mentality may hurt a team. I can't wait to see what happens with his ego and decision making if someone gives him a big contract.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 3 

Post#619 » by MettaWorldPanda » Thu Feb 17, 2022 4:50 pm

So the theory here is to play less talented one dimensional players with Bam,Lowry, and Butler? Like having to start Duncan over a healthy Oladipo and Herro? This is getting really silly at this point.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 3 

Post#620 » by IceColdCubano » Thu Feb 17, 2022 4:53 pm

twix2500 wrote:
IceColdCubano wrote:
twix2500 wrote:So basically you are saying you want Butler and Bam to reduce their attempts for Tyler. You want Tyler to be the number one guy on this team. And Duncan share the shots with the second unit?

I do not bring up Herro efficiency but you got to do the math.

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To be fair, in the context of things. Most high scoring bench players have mediocre efficiency, there have been a few of them through the years that are the exception. This is mostly due to playing with other players who don't take much defensive pressure away from you like the starters will keep their defenders honest most of the time.

However in my Opinion, Hero has been very sloppy with his handle this year, there have been games where he seems locked in and making the right plays and others not so much. Perhaps it's because he was given full reign of the bench mob so he feels like isn't needed to be held to a standard as long as he is putting up points vs the opposing bench. Whatever the case is he will need to clean it up, before given the opportunity to play as a starter. His defense also needs to improve, like Duncan he will be targeted on switches all game taken to the rack or backed into the basket. His only benefit is that when his shot is not falling behind the arch, he can still take his man off the dribble unlike Duncan, and he is pretty decent at setting up team mates off the bounce. Additionally with better offensive players beside him as a starter theirs more opportunity for cleaner assist.

The math still stays the same, its not about Jim, Low, Bam to lose shot attempts its staggering them for those to stay the same. Hero can still get 8-12 attempts surrounded by starters same as Duncan would, and then put up another 3-6 either being sat earlier and brought out with the bench for a few minutes or left out longer and give the others more rest. Its about balancing the shot attempts in not about reducing them.

I will say that when he does start sometimes or is out there with starters, our team does have a bad habit of giving him the ball with the shot clock winding down as last prayer attempt from him. They don't involve him in early into the shot clock like they purposely with Duncan on sets to get him going with some three bombs. I think it does have something to do with our offensive game plan centered around Duncan or 3pt shooting and they go away from that when Hero is in the game.

Whatever the case there's some game plan adjustments needed from the team, coaching staff, and Hero ultimately for him to transition into a starter. lets see how it plays out next year, I expect more things from both him and the team as a whole.
The point of him coming off the bench is to stagger him. Its to allow him to get shots without taking shots away from Bam and Butler. And if you are taking ball handling from him because you want Lowry and Butler to handle now he just a spot up shooter.

You can not have everything happen all at once. Its a give and take situation. Duncan and Tucker are in the starting lineup because they do not take away usage from Bam, Butler and Lowry. Those two positions are for low usage off ball players.

Basically putting him in the starting lineup is saying you want him to have MORE mins with Bam, Butler and Lowry together. For what? To stand in the corner or take the ball away from one or two of the three?

And I know some just want him to start for bragging rights. I'm not debating with those people. Thats just whatever.

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That's why a little more effort is necessary on the coaching staff for there to be more of a motion offense if Hero does start, shot quantity stays the same, yes usage with the ball drops per each individual who already has ball usage, but you can still involve your starters in a more efficient motion offense centered plan of attack. I think most of us here wouldn't mind Jimmy, Bam dribbling less and holding the ball less but scoring at the same efficiency from drop passes, lobs, pocket assist, etc.

Many teams with 3 scorers in the starting lineup work, why can't we? Lowry at this point is literally just a distributer and a spot shooter, PJ does the same. Bam has lately turned aggressive and we want to keep that but half of his scoring is from lobs, put backs, pocket passes of high screen an roll which involve very little usage anyways. So in essence, Jimmy is the guy who goes into Bully Ball and takes on the scoring usage when the team gets stagnant. I just don't see how we couldn't make it work.

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