Nail In The Coffin: AD Out Minimum 4 Weeks

[Landsberger]

Nail in the coffin! Let's not make is sound as if we were a contender but for this injury now... come on! We're better than that. When you add Melo and Westbrook to any team you are further away from a championship.

[tamaraw08]

It's kind of a weak era too, so it's not like we can just go out and find another 'big 2' who can run the tables on the league...

AD, even with all his injuries, is still one of the better pairings with LeBron out there...

I'd love to be able to get Embiid but that doesn't look possible... I'm kind of intrigued by Ayton... It seems like the Suns are not that interested in paying him what he's going to get on the market... Would they entertain an AD trade? Probably not... But I think that might be one of the better options... Maybe Utah if things don't go well this season...

Beyond that... I don't really know what we could do...

- I'd try trade Davis for Brogdon and Turner.
- I'd then try trade Russ+Nunn+picks for Rozier+Hayward.

Rozier, Brogdon, Hayward, LeBron, Turner -- Monk, Reaves, THT, Johnson, Melo

It's effectively spacing galore and defense. That's as good of a LeBron team you could find. Team has 6 guys who could put up 20 points on any one night. Vogel gets the key pieces he needs also - POA defender, smart wing defenders and elite rim protector.

- Pacers do it since they need to move Brogdon so they can start Hali/Duarte and figure they may as well upgrade Turner in the process.
- Hornets do it for the expiring $53m contracts for cap space in 2023 offseason and the picks. LaMelo will be maxed in 2024 offseason so Hornets last run at FAs to pair with Lamelo and Bridges will happen in 2023 offseason.

not bad esp the Davis for Brogdon and Turner. 710 ESPN radio sports show host Jorge Sedano suggested sending Davis home to Chicago while getting Zach Lavine and young Patrick Williams. The concern too is that Zach Lavine has knee issues while Williams is out for the season due to Wrist injury. It would be nice if they can include Vucevic.

[zimpy27]

Nail in the coffin! Let's not make is sound as if we were a contender but for this injury now... come on! We're better than that. When you add Melo and Westbrook to any team you are further away from a championship.

Davis injuries have ruined chance of Lakers championship for 2 of 3 season independent of all other mistakes. The one time he was healthy he had a huge break to stay that way.

His durability is a serious problem, I don't think he can last an NBA season. Best you can hope for is that he injures himself early and comes back a couple weeks before playoffs. But Lakers need to be a playoff team without him.

[Landsberger]

Nail in the coffin! Let's not make is sound as if we were a contender but for this injury now... come on! We're better than that. When you add Melo and Westbrook to any team you are further away from a championship.

Davis injuries have ruined chance of Lakers championship for 2 of 3 season independent of all other mistakes. The one time he was healthy he had a huge break to stay that way.

His durability is a serious problem, I don't think he can last an NBA season. Best you can hope for is that he injures himself early and comes back a couple weeks before playoffs. But Lakers need to be a playoff team without him.

I don't know... If Davis played 82 at 24 and 10 I don't see this team getting beyond the second round. We have larger problems with the make up of the team.

I know it's not popular but I've advocated for trading Davis for a few months now. He's the only piece that can bring back value to start over.

[TylersLakers]

I wouldn’t go into the off-season with the mentality of trading AD. If a package comes up, you think of it. If it doesn’t? You continue to build around him and LeBron the proper way with players that fit. You don’t let those players walk out the door because you’re being cheap.

However, if Boston with a package of Horford, Smart, Williams and picks comes? You think about it.

If Chicago with a package of Vucevic, Caruso, Pat Williams and picks comes? You think about it.

You also need to have a conversation with LeBron and see what he wants. He owes us nothing. He’s given us basically 4 great seasons and a championship. Forever grateful for him for rescuing us. If he wants a trade to Cleveland to finish off his career? You do it and take some picks and maybe a player like Allen and Okoro. If LeBron wants to extend, you keep him.

The Lakers need to go into this off-season with an open mind.

They also need to get rid of Russ by any means necessary for my mental health alone. He’s the player I’ve hated most in the league for a long time and I’m sick of watching him.

[zimpy27]

Nail in the coffin! Let's not make is sound as if we were a contender but for this injury now... come on! We're better than that. When you add Melo and Westbrook to any team you are further away from a championship.

Davis injuries have ruined chance of Lakers championship for 2 of 3 season independent of all other mistakes. The one time he was healthy he had a huge break to stay that way.

His durability is a serious problem, I don't think he can last an NBA season. Best you can hope for is that he injures himself early and comes back a couple weeks before playoffs. But Lakers need to be a playoff team without him.

I don't know... If Davis played 82 at 24 and 10 I don't see this team getting beyond the second round. We have larger problems with the make up of the team.

I know it's not popular but I've advocated for trading Davis for a few months now. He's the only piece that can bring back value to start over.

Davis and LeBron are the core though. Even if you fix everything else then you still lose because half of the core is not reliable, they are unlikely to be playing many games in the season and playoffs. The team chemistry is thrown off.

I think Lakers need to consider trading Davis

[Slava]

Injuries are part of the equation though, no team is safe from it. You’ve got to maximize his availability by getting him some biomechanics specialists and moving him back to 4 instead of experimenting with small ball line ups when it former for your identity. When healthy, Davis is top 10 if not borderline top 5 player. Your window relies on him and Lebron, you don’t get equal return for either. If you move on from one, might as well move on from contention and look to reload.

[Landsberger]

Injuries are part of the equation though, no team is safe from it. You’ve got to maximize his availability by getting him some biomechanics specialists and moving him back to 4 instead of experimenting with small ball line ups when it former for your identity. When healthy, Davis is top 10 if not borderline top 5 player. Your window relies on him and Lebron, you don’t get equal return for either. If you move on from one, might as well move on from contention and look to reload.

That's my larger point. Bron is in his twilight and will be having injury issues from here on out IMHO. Davis is not going to play over 55 games again it seems. You have two choices after that.... build a deep bench of good role players or get a 3rd star and some cast offs. You don't have money to do both. We had the deeper bench with role players and chucked them for Westbrook.... in the window that Bron has left, I don't see any way to build a deep bench that can cover for their injuries.

We can be a playoff team and even scare a team or two.... but unless some lightning strikes we're not going to see a title run again with Bron here.

Davis has more value today than he will in a couple years.

All of that said, the Buss family lives large off the Lakers and doesn't really have a source of income elsewhere that supports their lifestyle. That's directly the opposite of most owners. So they need the illusion of the chance we will compete to keep the cash flowing. They will hang on to this core of Davis and Bron until they can get another aging star to fill the role. We've seen it over and over again since 2010.

[LAKESHOW]

Give me Kawhi. The only other franchise who looks at their Star player the same way, Highly upset with said players injury history, and ready to move on, from said player. Kawhi/AD one in the same. Except of course, title #17.

[Ball so hard]

Nail in the coffin! Let's not make is sound as if we were a contender but for this injury now... come on! We're better than that. When you add Melo and Westbrook to any team you are further away from a championship.

Davis injuries have ruined chance of Lakers championship for 2 of 3 season independent of all other mistakes. The one time he was healthy he had a huge break to stay that way.

His durability is a serious problem, I don't think he can last an NBA season. Best you can hope for is that he injures himself early and comes back a couple weeks before playoffs. But Lakers need to be a playoff team without him.

I don't know... If Davis played 82 at 24 and 10 I don't see this team getting beyond the second round. We have larger problems with the make up of the team.

I know it's not popular but I've advocated for trading Davis for a few months now. He's the only piece that can bring back value to start over.

For a while now I’ve been saying we should trade AD. It’s clear this guy is not a player that can lead his team to a championship. Building around AD is how you get stuck on a mediocrity treadmill. More importantly I do not trust Rob to do a rebuild. I’d much prefer if we brought in a new GM/President and start over.

[Landsberger]

Davis injuries have ruined chance of Lakers championship for 2 of 3 season independent of all other mistakes. The one time he was healthy he had a huge break to stay that way.

His durability is a serious problem, I don't think he can last an NBA season. Best you can hope for is that he injures himself early and comes back a couple weeks before playoffs. But Lakers need to be a playoff team without him.

I don't know... If Davis played 82 at 24 and 10 I don't see this team getting beyond the second round. We have larger problems with the make up of the team.

I know it's not popular but I've advocated for trading Davis for a few months now. He's the only piece that can bring back value to start over.

For a while now I’ve been saying we should trade AD. It’s clear this guy is not a player that can lead his team to a championship. Building around AD is how you get stuck on a mediocrity treadmill. More importantly I do not trust Rob to do a rebuild. I’d much prefer if we brought in a new GM/President and start over.

Rob is doing what LeBron wants because the "family" wants Lebron happy.

In the face of all of that he says that "the door isn't closed on returning to Cleveland".... I know he means after his contract is up but maybe we can get him there earlier if he wants to go back that much.

Back when we were all going ga-ga over the possibility of a Davis trade I pointed out that the cost would be much lower to get Vucevic and that I thought he had a very complementary game to Bron's. He's meshing very well in Chicago with strong wing players and is quietly the most important part of that team IMHO. Hindsight and all that....

[tamaraw08]

I don't know... If Davis played 82 at 24 and 10 I don't see this team getting beyond the second round. We have larger problems with the make up of the team.

I know it's not popular but I've advocated for trading Davis for a few months now. He's the only piece that can bring back value to start over.

For a while now I’ve been saying we should trade AD. It’s clear this guy is not a player that can lead his team to a championship. Building around AD is how you get stuck on a mediocrity treadmill. More importantly I do not trust Rob to do a rebuild. I’d much prefer if we brought in a new GM/President and start over.

Rob is doing what LeBron wants because the "family" wants Lebron happy.

In the face of all of that he says that "the door isn't closed on returning to Cleveland".... I know he means after his contract is up but maybe we can get him there earlier if he wants to go back that much.

Back when we were all going ga-ga over the possibility of a Davis trade I pointed out that the cost would be much lower to get Vucevic and that I thought he had a very complementary game to Bron's. He's meshing very well in Chicago with strong wing players and is quietly the most important part of that team IMHO. Hindsight and all that....

Well Lebron is making it clear that He’s not happy with Rob lately.
1. Recently stated that OKC’s Sam Presti is MVP.
2. Subtweeted that Ram’s GM is his kind of guy for not caring about future drafts to get every player needed to win now.. unlike Pelinka.
3. Refuted Rob’s claim that he was Aligned with James and Davis priorities in not making any moves at the deadline pretty much making Pelinka to be liar.
About Vucevic, I really like this guy but I’m not sure our beloved coach would be ecstatic having him because he prefers mobile players who can switch in the perimeter. JMG, Howard, Marc Gasol, DJA, all played under 24 mins/game under him.
I still remember Vogel insisted trying the Kuz, Morris, Lebron combo even when they were registering a negative net rating.
Under a normal good coach Nikola would be a great fit imo

[stan francisco]

For a while now I’ve been saying we should trade AD. It’s clear this guy is not a player that can lead his team to a championship. Building around AD is how you get stuck on a mediocrity treadmill. More importantly I do not trust Rob to do a rebuild. I’d much prefer if we brought in a new GM/President and start over.

Rob is doing what LeBron wants because the "family" wants Lebron happy.

In the face of all of that he says that "the door isn't closed on returning to Cleveland".... I know he means after his contract is up but maybe we can get him there earlier if he wants to go back that much.

Back when we were all going ga-ga over the possibility of a Davis trade I pointed out that the cost would be much lower to get Vucevic and that I thought he had a very complementary game to Bron's. He's meshing very well in Chicago with strong wing players and is quietly the most important part of that team IMHO. Hindsight and all that....

Well Lebron is making it clear that He’s not happy with Rob lately.
1. Recently stated that OKC’s Sam Presti is MVP.
2. Subtweeted that Ram’s GM is his kind of guy for not caring about future drafts to get every player needed to win now.. unlike Pelinka.
3. Refuted Rob’s claim that he was Aligned with James and Davis priorities in not making any moves at the deadline pretty much making Pelinka to be liar.
About Vucevic, I really like this guy but I’m not sure our beloved coach would be ecstatic having him because he prefers mobile players who can switch in the perimeter. JMG, Howard, Marc Gasol, DJA, all played under 24 mins/game under him.
I still remember Vogel insisted trying the Kuz, Morris, Lebron combo even when they were registering a negative net rating.
Under a normal good coach Nikola would be a great fit imo

Cool. If LeGroin wants to go home or likes Presti better, let’s help him pack. Kobe was right. Being the Lakers’ franchise player is a step up from all other franchises, not for everyone.

Simple trade:

LeGroin to Thunder so that he can continue his man crush on Presti. The youth of the Cavs would also work.

What a slick eel, taking passive aggressive shots at Rob after recruiting Westbrook. Sorry, LeGroin. Jeannie won’t like that type of ‘loyalty’.

I’d seriously consider trading LeGroin this summer.

Bad vibes.

[NBAWestFan]

I agree it is time to cash him in while he has value. but the Lakers should play him at the 4 and less minutes. He is fragile and should not be over-played once heathy.

Lebron could be traded also once Bronny gets drafted.

How about up gets some high draft picks or just first rounders

Get rid of Plinka and crew.

Rebuild with drafts and free agents. Clear out the house and start a new.

Lakers look real old and not worth watching.

[SlimShady83]

Hope there is a full rebuild in the offeseason all 3 stars gone

[slifersd]

I think this offseason is going to be a very tumultuous one for us. LeBron is already spreading rumors to put pressure on management. It wouldn't be shocking to me at all if he is angling for his next team as we speak. His tenure in his last couple of destinations were exactly 4 years, and he is in year 4 with us right now. If I were the LAkers FO, I would offer him a one year extension this offseason. If he says no to it, then we put him on the market to move him. He has one year left on his deal after this season, and we wouldn't want to lose him for nothing in FA.

If LeBron is gone, then we can field offers for AD as well. He is obviously not the next guy for us to build a team around. But his value might be low around the league right now with two subpar and injury prone seasons in a row. I think it would be smart to trade him if we get a good offer. And if we can't get anything we deem satisfactory, we keep him around and make him the focal point. He can have all the touches he wants without LeBron to put up stats, which will help inflate his value for the trade deadline or next offseason.

[Kilroy]

The way I read all the LeBron/Pelinka shots being taken, stuff is, Pelinka putting LeBron/Klutch on notice that they're no longer in the Personnel driving seat... They had 2 years after Rob helped get AD here to build a legit roster around them, and they failed... And based on everything we read at the time, LeBron and AD green-lit pretty much every decision along the way the last 2 season, at the very least... It seems logical that they did more than that...

So now LeBron and AD basically ordered Rob to get Westbrook and in the process buried the franchise... Westbrook was obviously going to be virtually untradeable this season, and we gave away or let go of all our other assets in the process of getting him.

So on top of AD and LeBron killing our franchise with the Westbrook mandate, neither one of them can stay healthy playing both end basketball...

Rob and the Lakers deserve some blame for this... But mainly that blame revolves around smiling and bending over for Lebron's crew in the first place... LeBron and AD deserve like 95% of the blame for this season...

So if LeBron's unhappy, he should look in the mirror... And if he thinks the Lakers are the problem he can take his Shaq freethrow shooting, $40M ass somewhere else...

Rams, Lakers, Dodgers parade... Pfft... Parade your butt out, LeBron...

[wco81]

If AD and LBJ are healthy for the playoffs, they're always a threat. If they both are hot and they get help from Monk, Melo and maybe some timely shots from others, they can't be taken for granted, even if they're in the playin and have to play the #1 or #2 seed in the first round.

CP3 is going to be out until the playoffs, it sounds like. Unless the Suns really tank, they're not going to try to bring him back early. May actually be a blessing because he's played every Suns game, including back to backs, before his injury.

But if his health is questionable at the start of the playoffs, Suns may be vulnerable. Even if he's back fully healthy, after missing so much time, the Suns may not be in sync. They were in great form with him running the offense and hitting the big shots. Can't assume he and the Suns can just pick up where they left off when he comes back.

Warriors are shaky, with the uncertainty of Draymond. Lousy teams like the Knicks have dominated them inside. So they're vulnerable in a first round matchup against Lakers with two all-NBA players.


As for Lebron's demands, what is the Lakers' cap situation in the next couple of years? They have a lot of minimum contracts but they're short term. So they could sign a higher-priced player in the offseason?

The Busses aren't billionaires so they're leery about paying luxury taxes though. Hell, LeBron may have more assets than the owners at this point. Easier for him to say they should pay more luxury taxes.


Salary cap may go way up if the NBA can get a big TV deal. They are aiming for over 3X the current TV deal which runs out in 2024 I believe.

So there will be more national TV money but can the Lakers owners spend more? Do they want to spend more?

One thing that might have worked for them, before the pandemic, is if they could find a way to get non basketball-related revenues which they wouldn't have to share with other teams and the league.

Warriors are trying that with concerts and other non-NBA events at their new arena but the pandemic has probably derailed these plans.

Clippers are going the same route, it seems. I think they plan to take over a lot of the concert market in SoCal, even though their owner doesn't really need additional money to spend whatever it takes.

Of course the Busses can sell the team at some point, probably cash out $3-4 billion, though they may need a new arena or some major renovations to Crypto.com arena -- I started typing Staples.

[Landsberger]

If AD and LBJ are healthy for the playoffs, they're always a threat. If they both are hot and they get help from Monk, Melo and maybe some timely shots from others, they can't be taken for granted, even if they're in the playin and have to play the #1 or #2 seed in the first round.

CP3 is going to be out until the playoffs, it sounds like. Unless the Suns really tank, they're not going to try to bring him back early. May actually be a blessing because he's played every Suns game, including back to backs, before his injury.

But if his health is questionable at the start of the playoffs, Suns may be vulnerable. Even if he's back fully healthy, after missing so much time, the Suns may not be in sync. They were in great form with him running the offense and hitting the big shots. Can't assume he and the Suns can just pick up where they left off when he comes back.

Warriors are shaky, with the uncertainty of Draymond. Lousy teams like the Knicks have dominated them inside. So they're vulnerable in a first round matchup against Lakers with two all-NBA players.


As for Lebron's demands, what is the Lakers' cap situation in the next couple of years? They have a lot of minimum contracts but they're short term. So they could sign a higher-priced player in the offseason?

The Busses aren't billionaires so they're leery about paying luxury taxes though. Hell, LeBron may have more assets than the owners at this point. Easier for him to say they should pay more luxury taxes.


Salary cap may go way up if the NBA can get a big TV deal. They are aiming for over 3X the current TV deal which runs out in 2024 I believe.

So there will be more national TV money but can the Lakers owners spend more? Do they want to spend more?

One thing that might have worked for them, before the pandemic, is if they could find a way to get non basketball-related revenues which they wouldn't have to share with other teams and the league.

Warriors are trying that with concerts and other non-NBA events at their new arena but the pandemic has probably derailed these plans.

Clippers are going the same route, it seems. I think they plan to take over a lot of the concert market in SoCal, even though their owner doesn't really need additional money to spend whatever it takes.

Of course the Busses can sell the team at some point, probably cash out $3-4 billion, though they may need a new arena or some major renovations to Crypto.com arena -- I started typing Staples.

While I love the Lakers and the NBA, I'll quit it all together if they do away with the salary cap. Baseball created 20 AAAA teams when they decided to not do a hard cap. It's 7 teams and everyone else loses the talent they build because of it. The strength of the NBA is a San Antonio or Denver or Atlanta being in the mix.... not just NY, LA, CHI etc. Anyway.... if the salary cap goes the Lakers will be in a distant second place in LA as far as owners with money to burn is concerned.

[wco81]

They won't do away with the cap though I think they expected that the max contracts would keep franchise superstars with their teams.

But instead, they found superstars were willing to move even if it they meant they got $30-35 million a year instead of $40 million or more in a 4 or 5 year deal.

A lot depends on that TV deal, which may be why Silver is talking about a mid season tournament of some kind, something to try to appeal to the networks.

Looks like the current CBA expires in 2023-2024, so right around when the new TV deal is going to take effect.

Again, NBA is seeking 3X the money because that's what the NFL essentially got, 3X their previous contract.

If they get it, even with more money, not sure TV contract would change much because the max contracts are based on a percentage of the salary cap so a higher cap means higher max contracts, unless the new CBA will be completely different.

Some argue that superstars should make more than 35% of the cap, that some guys are worth much more to their franchises. But it just sets up a top-heavy roster which is what happens to most top teams which have a couple of 10-year max contract players. The only way to fill up the roster is with minimum contract guys willing to ring chase for a year.