OT: Juwan Howard throws "punch"; Suspended for remainder of season

[hoosierdaddy34]

If intent matters in a court of law it has to matter here, when doling out punishment. The punishment has to fit the crime. 5 games, at the end of the year to a team trying to fight and make the tournament, seems like a very reasonable punishment given all the factors. I don’t have any more time to listen to hysterical people who are overreacting.

Saying he should be fired isn't overreaction, its simply people having a different opinion of what his punishment should be. When Woody Hayes threw a punch at a player who came running towards him on the sideline after intercepting a pass with a helmet on he was fired the next day because it had to be done. That was a coach who'd been there for 28 years and won 3 national titles. Howard getting a 5 game suspension seems pretty light imo. I think he should be suspended at least for the remainder of the season and the Wisconsin coach could maybe use a suspension as well. Firing him seems perfectly within reason also. I don't think that Michigan has much of any chance of making the tourney either unless they win the B1G tourney.

Yea agreed should have been the rest of the year minimum, including tournaments. And probably should have been fired. Don’t play that stupid game “it wasn’t a closed fist” he’s a freaking head coach of a major university, and hit another coach in the head intentionally without the other coach ever touching him. Most of us would have been canned on the spot. Greg needs suspended also for confronting Howard and putting hands on him first. Both guys are idiots and deserve harsher punishment. Started a freaking brawl.

But but I would have bee fired!

Yes both of you are overreacting significantly. And you especially appear that you are most concerned with the fact that a major college coach is getting away with something that you, every day Joe, cannot.

That’s life. Whining about it isn’t going to change that fact. Your personal experiences don’t really play into this.

Unless he violated his contract or wasn’t living up to the expectations of the university performance wise, nothing was ever going to happen to him. And Michigan AD and President obviously did not feel he deserved to be fired. I realize you are in your feelings way too far into this situation but this was predictable and the right call, as I stated yesterday before the decision was announced.

By the way I am in no way a Michigan or Juwon Howard fan. So save the homerism crap.

[BHF]

Now the right thing to do for his team is to let him go as well.

[MrBigShot]

What is so Bush League about a coach using his timeouts?
It's not like he used it to draw up a play to run up the score.
I myself have called timeouts late in games that weren't close, to make substitutions or just to remind my team that we dont need to shoot in that situation.
I honestly think Howard should just focus on coaching his own team and worry less about how Gard is coaching his. Running up the score is unsportsmanlike for sure but I've honestly never heard of this strict prohibition against using timeouts.
I think Howard was just frustrated about losing tbh. Even if you disagree with the timeout there, it hardly justifies acting unprofessional, much less acting like a maniac by balling up a guy's shirt in your fist and then later taking a shot at another guy.
It's a freaking timeout people. Even running up the score wouldn't have justified Howard's actions, and people keep talking about a timeout?!!?
Holy false equivalency Batman!!!

His starters were not on the floor.

It's pure bush league. In blowouts, you don't run up the score in the last minute and you don't drag it out with unnecessary time outs if you have any class. Who cares if they turned it over in a blowout.

The only team being bush league was Michigan. The shot clock was off and Wisconsin just wanted to get past halfcourt and end the game with their end of the bench players on the court. But no. Michigan needed to be a in a full court press with starters on the court for some reason. They even fouled after the timeout. Any bawling about "extending the game" or "class" of all things goes out the window.

**** clowns.

I mean ... you keep going on and on about something you are wrong about and pretty much everyone in this thread disagrees with you. Let it go.

You and1’d that post. Lol.

Funny, when I read this thread it seems like there are people with various takes. Guess I’m reading it wrong.

For the record, if I was in charge at Michigan -and the assistant coach didn’t say anything way out of bounds- I fire Howard. But if I was in charge at Wisconsin I’d be suspending the head coach and assistant for a few games too.

Suspending Gard would be idiotic.

Agree 100%. This fuss about running up the score and end of game etiquette is overplayed. Game isn't over until it's over. If you're at half court and the shot clock is off, then yeah dribble it out. But if you don't want to get embarrassed, play better.

[mccluskey]

I think there is a massive difference in intent. A punch can kill someone. Swiping/slapping at someone has the intent of sending them a message that you are not in the mood. Intent does matter here when dishing out punishment. And I agree he should be punished but there was no intent to injure the other party. I think a 5 game suspension seems about right.

I've argued about this more than I really care to, but I think this is a bad argument to try to make what Howard did seem less shameful.

play word games about what he did all you want, he still hit an opposing coach - a coach who never even touched him - in the face out of anger. He came back and did this even after he had walked away from the initial confrontation and things seemed about to calm down, and by doing so he started a brawl and put his players in danger. And he didn't even have the self awareness or good judgment to apologize or take any accountability for his actions afterwards.

to me thats crossing a line you can't cross as a head coach and showing a terrible lack of leadership by putting your players in harm's way. I think this suspension is pretty weak - it should've included the postseason - but it's about what I expected.

If intent matters in a court of law it has to matter here, when doling out punishment. The punishment has to fit the crime. 5 games, at the end of the year to a team trying to fight and make the tournament, seems like a very reasonable punishment given all the factors. I don’t have any more time to listen to hysterical people who are overreacting.

you don't agree with my opinion = you're a hysterical overreactor. Nice strawman, chief

I don't have any energy left to talk about this one either though so whatever.

[DarthTeufel]

Howard should just use the Nword defense and claim that he thought the guy called him it. getting called the nword basically gives you free reign to retaliate however you want with no consequences.

S3 for race baiting.

[bbalnation]

This was also an adult male punching a student who is under the age of 25.

Its not the same at all.

On one hand yes it was a student but on the other its a 230lb linebacker in full pads and a helmet vs a short overweight middle aged dude. Which is more likely to result in serious injury to the one that was attacked? Woody deserved to be fired. Howard deserves more than a 5 game suspension but its not like I am losing any sleep over how UM is disciplining its bb coach.

Size & padding doesn't affect the power dynamics between a paid post secondary staff member (teacher, coach, etc) and a student under the age of 25.

Parallel: a teacher pushing another teacher is very different than a teacher pushing a student. Regardless of whether the teachers or student has padding or helmets on (lool).

[Onlytimewilltel]

I've argued about this more than I really care to, but I think this is a bad argument to try to make what Howard did seem less shameful.

play word games about what he did all you want, he still hit an opposing coach - a coach who never even touched him - in the face out of anger. He came back and did this even after he had walked away from the initial confrontation and things seemed about to calm down, and by doing so he started a brawl and put his players in danger. And he didn't even have the self awareness or good judgment to apologize or take any accountability for his actions afterwards.

to me thats crossing a line you can't cross as a head coach and showing a terrible lack of leadership by putting your players in harm's way. I think this suspension is pretty weak - it should've included the postseason - but it's about what I expected.

If intent matters in a court of law it has to matter here, when doling out punishment. The punishment has to fit the crime. 5 games, at the end of the year to a team trying to fight and make the tournament, seems like a very reasonable punishment given all the factors. I don’t have any more time to listen to hysterical people who are overreacting.

you don't agree with my opinion = you're a hysterical overreactor. Nice strawman, chief

I don't have any energy left to talk about this one either though so whatever.

He’s just an obvious hoosier, let’s leave him alone lol

[druggas]

Soft punishment for a soft punch.
Or a slap on the wrist for a slap to the head.

[HMFFL]

Weak punishment.
He's representing the school, these student athletes, and all he received was a five game suspension?

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

[Nate505]

Welp, we see what standards Michigan has when it comes to their coaching staff. Apparently a head coach that threatens to kill others and attacks others is a-ok in their book.

Ok, attacking might not be ok. That'll get you suspended for a few games.

[Cavsfansince84]

But but I would have bee fired!

Yes both of you are overreacting significantly. And you especially appear that you are most concerned with the fact that a major college coach is getting away with something that you, every day Joe, cannot.

That’s life. Whining about it isn’t going to change that fact. Your personal experiences don’t really play into this.

Unless he violated his contract or wasn’t living up to the expectations of the university performance wise, nothing was ever going to happen to him. And Michigan AD and President obviously did not feel he deserved to be fired. I realize you are in your feelings way too far into this situation but this was predictable and the right call, as I stated yesterday before the decision was announced.

By the way I am in no way a Michigan or Juwon Howard fan. So save the homerism crap.

I didn't say a single word about what would happen to me. Howard has anger issues and what the univ is doing right now is basically just coddling him on the outside chance he can still somehow make the tourney.

[hoosierdaddy34]

If intent matters in a court of law it has to matter here, when doling out punishment. The punishment has to fit the crime. 5 games, at the end of the year to a team trying to fight and make the tournament, seems like a very reasonable punishment given all the factors. I don’t have any more time to listen to hysterical people who are overreacting.

you don't agree with my opinion = you're a hysterical overreactor. Nice strawman, chief

I don't have any energy left to talk about this one either though so whatever.

He’s just an obvious hoosier, let’s leave him alone lol

Please tell what exactly that means? (this should be pretty humorous how many assumptions you’ve made that you are about to get dead wrong)

[hoosierdaddy34]

I've argued about this more than I really care to, but I think this is a bad argument to try to make what Howard did seem less shameful.

play word games about what he did all you want, he still hit an opposing coach - a coach who never even touched him - in the face out of anger. He came back and did this even after he had walked away from the initial confrontation and things seemed about to calm down, and by doing so he started a brawl and put his players in danger. And he didn't even have the self awareness or good judgment to apologize or take any accountability for his actions afterwards.

to me thats crossing a line you can't cross as a head coach and showing a terrible lack of leadership by putting your players in harm's way. I think this suspension is pretty weak - it should've included the postseason - but it's about what I expected.

If intent matters in a court of law it has to matter here, when doling out punishment. The punishment has to fit the crime. 5 games, at the end of the year to a team trying to fight and make the tournament, seems like a very reasonable punishment given all the factors. I don’t have any more time to listen to hysterical people who are overreacting.

you don't agree with my opinion = you're a hysterical overreactor. Nice strawman, chief

I don't have any energy left to talk about this one either though so whatever.

No, I’m fine with people having a different opinion with me. That happens all the time. But calling for someone’s job in this situation is a hysterical overreaction. So let’s try not to do that moving forward. Let’s have level-headed, rational discussions about these things based in reality.

[Onlytimewilltel]

you don't agree with my opinion = you're a hysterical overreactor. Nice strawman, chief

I don't have any energy left to talk about this one either though so whatever.

He’s just an obvious hoosier, let’s leave him alone lol

Please tell what exactly that means? (this should be pretty humorous how many assumptions you’ve made that you are about to get dead wrong)

You’re the only one who knows what it means… rest of us are just overreacting and have no clue . hoosier

[hoosierdaddy34]

He’s just an obvious hoosier, let’s leave him alone lol

Please tell what exactly that means? (this should be pretty humorous how many assumptions you’ve made that you are about to get dead wrong)

You’re the only one who knows what it means… rest of us are just overreacting and have no clue . hoosier

That’s funny cause you said it, I didn’t. So please go on and illuminate the rest of us with your point. Show us how smart you are.

[othawhitemeat]

BettaBulleavit is exactly right

Howard gonna fool around and find out he Herman Munster strong and somebody else be cracked like an egg OR he's gonna get embarrassed by a for real-no-how-to-fight "little" guy.

Mark Turgeon might had something for Juwan

How do I know? My fraternity brothers to this day could tell you stories

I’m a PG terp too that eventually became at fairfax dukie...and I can tell you people taking a threat from a chiraq vet seriously...Howard is definitely making things complicated for people that don’t get that you can’t threaten to kill someone and think it’s ok....

Howard acting like a THUG....this is the one time THUG is most appropriate word to describe Howard.

He is out here claiming his hood, threatening to kill people, pointing in peoples chest and slapping dudes - how is this anything but thuggery and I guess this what we want from the leaders of young men in college up at Michigan but I don’t want that at UMD or Duke...

At the risk of sound as if I am making excuses for Howard, which I’m not…trust me, I am going to try to rationalize this Howard/Thug thing.

I’ve never met the man. But I know many people that have. Howard isn’t a thug. Again, trust me on that. Dude just wasn’t raised that way. However, in some twisted way, I think that he feels that this is how to show his players that he has their back. At some point (hopefully before he loses his job) he will learn that acting aggressively towards your peers isn’t the way to have your players back nor is it going to garner you more respect as a recruiter. This is going to hurt him. And he will see how soon enough.

I want to apologize if it seems like I’m supporting Howard’s actions in any way. I don’t. I just take issue with the idea of creating a narrative that he was somehow unprovoked and is this crazed maniac that sought out this confrontation. There is literally video evidence that shows otherwise and some people either refuse to acknowledge it OR paint what Gard did in this angelic, warm light. Like….let’s not do that. This was an unfortunate situation where all spades need to be called spades.

I am not calling him any names, but I really have little respect for Howard.

1) Was part of the Fab 5 Scandal
2) I believe was part of some iffy contract with Bullets (Wizards)/Heat
3) Since being back in Michigan
a) routinely talks trash to opposing college players
b) Tried to COVID way to Big 10 chip last year and then claim it was too many games
c) Tried to get in a fight with Turgeon claiming Turgeon was threatening his life while he was threatening him
d) in 2 games being down big with less than a minute left, has called timeout.
e) 1) in this game alone, Gard would not have called a timeout if Howard was not pressing. Gard was going to dribble the clock
out. While Gard should have let it go, Howard had a player foul a backup player with like 15 seconds left.
2) Howard plays the victim after calling timeout
3) Howard not only puts hand on someone, but actually yelled "I will remember that" before Gard even did anything
4) after Gard backs up, Howard continues to go at others. This also led to his players
5) Post game, Howard again claims defending self. Howard also told the press he was not pressing (there were traps) - so he
lied. He did not apologize at all. Honestly - he should have never went up there to begin with - Michigan should have covered
his fines.
6) In his apology, while it was great he apologized to the Assistant Coach, he did not apologize to any of University of
Wisconsin.

In general, I am not a Wisconsin fan and Gard should have just ignored Howard, but Howard was the biggest issue, this is not his first time, and I sincerely doubt it will be his last. Big 10 also has one of the worst commissioners in sports after having one of the best for a long time so Howard is able to get away with stuff. I hope Howard does get better and does not mess up like this anymore. However, in his few years at Michigan, he has absolutely been anything but class and a leader.

[NDaATL]

If Howard was white and the assistant coach was black, Howard would have been fired instantly. The public outcry would be astronomical. Howard wasn't even apologetic afterwards, he basically doubled down.

[mccluskey]

If intent matters in a court of law it has to matter here, when doling out punishment. The punishment has to fit the crime. 5 games, at the end of the year to a team trying to fight and make the tournament, seems like a very reasonable punishment given all the factors. I don’t have any more time to listen to hysterical people who are overreacting.

you don't agree with my opinion = you're a hysterical overreactor. Nice strawman, chief

I don't have any energy left to talk about this one either though so whatever.

No, I’m fine with people having a different opinion with me. That happens all the time. But calling for someone’s job in this situation is a hysterical overreaction. So let’s try not to do that moving forward. Let’s have level-headed, rational discussions about these things based in reality.

no, it's not a hysterical overreaction to suggest that a representative of a major university should potentially lose his job for completely losing his marbles on live TV and hitting an opposing coach (who never even touched him) in the head, thereby inciting a brawl that unnecessarily put his players at risk in a hostile environment. Especially considering that the coach in question already has a previous documented history of losing his cool and threatening another coach with violence.

you may disagree with that perspective, and people expressing that perspective may go too far in expressing it and cross the line into hysteria in the way they're communicating. But I don't think it's unreasonable to hold that view.

[Onlytimewilltel]

Please tell what exactly that means? (this should be pretty humorous how many assumptions you’ve made that you are about to get dead wrong)

You’re the only one who knows what it means… rest of us are just overreacting and have no clue . hoosier

That’s funny cause you said it, I didn’t. So please go on and illuminate the rest of us with your point. Show us how smart you are.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I'm just now finding out the punishment for Howard (and Gard and players involved)

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/33343690/michigan-men-basketball-coach-juwan-howard-suspended-rest-regular-season-altercation-wisconsin-sources-say

Howard out the rest of the REGULAR season. The rest of the regular season for Michigan is 4 home games and a road game against Ohio State. Seems right on to me.

Forty thousand fine. No, that seems way light. The coach is salaried but I would think the fine should be $40K plus the prorated part of the season he's going to miss. Something like 1/6th of his year's coaching pay.

https://mgoblue.com/news/2019/5/22/former-michigan-great-juwan-howard-returns-as-mens-basketball-coach.aspx?&utm_source=Social&utm_medium=TWWelcomeHome052219&utm_campaign=BKMContent

Howard agreed to a five-year deal, starting at $2 million annually, with a base salary of $400,000.

I have no idea how to interpret his pay but IMO his fine should have been at least $100K plus the games missed.