2022 All Star Weekend Thread | Cleveland

[OriginalRed]

He may be....but he never had to go through the level of competition LeBron has had to go through.

Outside of the super team Warriors (which were together for just two seasons), Lebron's competition wasn't anything special.

Lebron lost to Dirk and bums in 2011. Then he lost again to the corpse of Duncan and a 22 year-old Kawhi in 2014. He's blown some easy finals match-ups.

That 1st finals appearance was against the Spurs in their prime and yes, while the second one came against a much older Spurs team they were still better than Chicago's competition. I've never said on this forum that LeBron was the GOAT but I'm just saying lets not pretend the competition was the same.

And let's not pretend Lebron hasn't colluded and played with far more talent than Jordan ever had access too. Not to mention one of those stacked teams he faced in the Finals was a direct result of his own actions as KD doesn't even think about teaming up with the Warriors if Lebron doesn't go to Miami first to team up with Wade and Bosh.

You can't just rave about how much better Lebron's competition was than Jordan's and not mention how much more help he's had when confronting those teams.

[righterwriter]

Just throwing this out there and to sew if a productive discussion comes from it.

Lebron and Steph appear to have a strong bond. Is that a sign of what the future may become? Is Lebron to Golden State inntjenfutjre a strong possibly?

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For the 2023 season GS drafts Bronny to be PG of the future. Lebron comes in and aims for 74 wins and a 16-0 postseason with a dominant squad led by emerging superstars James Wiseman & Kuminga, with a supporting cast of Curry, Klay, Dray, Poole, Wiggins, and Iguodala.

How much would NBA fans hate this?

Lebron is only bringing more awareness to Bronny and building his brand to be. Keeping him relevant in the media is a must. In don't view that roster as a thread due to age.

With one season left under contract I don't believe Lebron is going to stand for the current Laker roster. He will be out of they do some drastic moves this off-season to get better. Any moves Lebron make will need to be throughout by his group to assure it doesn't hurt his legacy and brand.



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Yeah, I was just kidding. Trying to build the most fantasy-like scenario for people who hate the Warriors.

I agree, no chance Lebron joins Curry in GS. I don't think Steph would even want him there, considering their rivalry and Lebron's personality.

The only move that kinda makes sense is a return to Cleveland. I do think Bronny could end up going there as a 2nd round pick to join his dad, as it would make the team a hell of a lot of money, even if its an Antentokounmpo brother type situation.

[Profound23]

Weird to see Damian make it to the 75th legend roster. Nothing he does screams that status.

Thought the same thing about Harden and Westbrook.

[DTP]

Outside of the super team Warriors (which were together for just two seasons), Lebron's competition wasn't anything special.

Lebron lost to Dirk and bums in 2011. Then he lost again to the corpse of Duncan and a 22 year-old Kawhi in 2014. He's blown some easy finals match-ups.

That 1st finals appearance was against the Spurs in their prime and yes, while the second one came against a much older Spurs team they were still better than Chicago's competition. I've never said on this forum that LeBron was the GOAT but I'm just saying lets not pretend the competition was the same.

And let's not pretend Lebron hasn't colluded and played with far more talent than Jordan ever had access too. Not to mention one of those stacked teams he faced in the Finals was a direct result of his own actions as KD doesn't even think about teaming up with the Warriors if Lebron doesn't go to Miami first to team up with Wade and Bosh.

You can't just rave about how much better Lebron's competition was than Jordan's and not mention how much more help he's had when confronting those teams.

So we're going to pretend that Jordan didn't have a super team too? Credit to Jordan that the teams were built differently- Chicago was built by the front office and LeBron's teams have been built by him but it doesn't change the fact that all were "super teams"

[Raps in 4]

That 1st finals appearance was against the Spurs in their prime and yes, while the second one came against a much older Spurs team they were still better than Chicago's competition. I've never said on this forum that LeBron was the GOAT but I'm just saying lets not pretend the competition was the same.

And let's not pretend Lebron hasn't colluded and played with far more talent than Jordan ever had access too. Not to mention one of those stacked teams he faced in the Finals was a direct result of his own actions as KD doesn't even think about teaming up with the Warriors if Lebron doesn't go to Miami first to team up with Wade and Bosh.

You can't just rave about how much better Lebron's competition was than Jordan's and not mention how much more help he's had when confronting those teams.

So we're going to pretend that Jordan didn't have a super team too? Credit to Jordan that the teams were built differently- Chicago was built by the front office and LeBron's teams have been built by him but it doesn't change the fact that all were "super teams"

In what way were the Bulls a super team? There was one other legitimate all-star talent on that team.

[SkyBill40]

And let's not pretend Lebron hasn't colluded and played with far more talent than Jordan ever had access too. Not to mention one of those stacked teams he faced in the Finals was a direct result of his own actions as KD doesn't even think about teaming up with the Warriors if Lebron doesn't go to Miami first to team up with Wade and Bosh.

You can't just rave about how much better Lebron's competition was than Jordan's and not mention how much more help he's had when confronting those teams.

So we're going to pretend that Jordan didn't have a super team too? Credit to Jordan that the teams were built differently- Chicago was built by the front office and LeBron's teams have been built by him but it doesn't change the fact that all were "super teams"

In what way were the Bulls a super team? There was one other legitimate all-star talent on that team.

That would depend on which iteration of the Bulls are being discussed here. Kukoc and Rodman were definitely all star talent outside of both Jordan and Pippen.

[OriginalRed]

That 1st finals appearance was against the Spurs in their prime and yes, while the second one came against a much older Spurs team they were still better than Chicago's competition. I've never said on this forum that LeBron was the GOAT but I'm just saying lets not pretend the competition was the same.

And let's not pretend Lebron hasn't colluded and played with far more talent than Jordan ever had access too. Not to mention one of those stacked teams he faced in the Finals was a direct result of his own actions as KD doesn't even think about teaming up with the Warriors if Lebron doesn't go to Miami first to team up with Wade and Bosh.

You can't just rave about how much better Lebron's competition was than Jordan's and not mention how much more help he's had when confronting those teams.

So we're going to pretend that Jordan didn't have a super team too? Credit to Jordan that the teams were built differently- Chicago was built by the front office and LeBron's teams have been built by him but it doesn't change the fact that all were "super teams"

We don't have to pretend about something that blatantly isn't true. Who in the world would call a team whose best three players are Jordan, Pippen, and Horace Grant a super team? The second three peat is more closer to a super team but I'd still hesitate to call them that when Rodman was on the wrong side of 30 and Pippen was almost a corpse walking by their last two runs.

[LivingLegend]

Outside of the super team Warriors (which were together for just two seasons), Lebron's competition wasn't anything special.

Lebron lost to Dirk and bums in 2011. Then he lost again to the corpse of Duncan and a 22 year-old Kawhi in 2014. He's blown some easy finals match-ups.

That 1st finals appearance was against the Spurs in their prime and yes, while the second one came against a much older Spurs team they were still better than Chicago's competition. I've never said on this forum that LeBron was the GOAT but I'm just saying lets not pretend the competition was the same.

And let's not pretend Lebron hasn't colluded and played with far more talent than Jordan ever had access too. Not to mention one of those stacked teams he faced in the Finals was a direct result of his own actions as KD doesn't even think about teaming up with the Warriors if Lebron doesn't go to Miami first to team up with Wade and Bosh.

You can't just rave about how much better Lebron's competition was than Jordan's and not mention how much more help he's had when confronting those teams.

Lebrons teams has only been favored to win 3 out of 10 Finals.

Meaning his teams have been projected to lose 70% of the time he has been to the Finals.

So maybe let's not act like the players he has been playing with on all those teams were as amazing as you think they were.

Especially compared to Jordans teams who were favored in every championship besides 1.

[OriginalRed]

That 1st finals appearance was against the Spurs in their prime and yes, while the second one came against a much older Spurs team they were still better than Chicago's competition. I've never said on this forum that LeBron was the GOAT but I'm just saying lets not pretend the competition was the same.

And let's not pretend Lebron hasn't colluded and played with far more talent than Jordan ever had access too. Not to mention one of those stacked teams he faced in the Finals was a direct result of his own actions as KD doesn't even think about teaming up with the Warriors if Lebron doesn't go to Miami first to team up with Wade and Bosh.

You can't just rave about how much better Lebron's competition was than Jordan's and not mention how much more help he's had when confronting those teams.

Lebrons teams has only been favored to win 3 out of 10 Finals.

Meaning his teams have been projected to lose 70% of the time he has been to the Finals.

So maybe let's not act like the players he has been playing with on all those teams were as amazing as you think they were.

Especially compared to Jordans teams who were favored in every championship besides 1.

And yet every team Lebron was on from 2010 to 2016 was the pre season favorite to win it all coming into the season. Isn't that funny? How are you favored to win the championship six straight years coming into the season when supposedly your not playing with great players? Are Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh, Ray Allen, Kyrie Irving, and Kevin Love not all certified Hall of Famers, with two of them being Top 75 players?

I won't dispute Jordan being the favorite every year because its a fact he had more talent than most of the league but alot of that talent was home grown and developed on the Bulls. It's not like he was just grabbing star players from other teams and re-stacking his roster every other year to compete.

[DTP]

And let's not pretend Lebron hasn't colluded and played with far more talent than Jordan ever had access too. Not to mention one of those stacked teams he faced in the Finals was a direct result of his own actions as KD doesn't even think about teaming up with the Warriors if Lebron doesn't go to Miami first to team up with Wade and Bosh.

You can't just rave about how much better Lebron's competition was than Jordan's and not mention how much more help he's had when confronting those teams.

So we're going to pretend that Jordan didn't have a super team too? Credit to Jordan that the teams were built differently- Chicago was built by the front office and LeBron's teams have been built by him but it doesn't change the fact that all were "super teams"

We don't have to pretend about something that blatantly isn't true. Who in the world would call a team whose best three players are Jordan, Pippen, and Horace Grant a super team? The second three peat is more closer to a super team but I'd still hesitate to call them that when Rodman was on the wrong side of 30 and Pippen was almost a corpse walking by their last two runs.

I was born in 91 and didn't start following the league until 02...so I could be wrong but didn't that Pippen/Grant led team make it to the post season without Jordan? It was a really good team, led by one of the best coaches in league history, that was successful without him.

[floppymoose]

Watch on YouTube

[OriginalRed]

So we're going to pretend that Jordan didn't have a super team too? Credit to Jordan that the teams were built differently- Chicago was built by the front office and LeBron's teams have been built by him but it doesn't change the fact that all were "super teams"

We don't have to pretend about something that blatantly isn't true. Who in the world would call a team whose best three players are Jordan, Pippen, and Horace Grant a super team? The second three peat is more closer to a super team but I'd still hesitate to call them that when Rodman was on the wrong side of 30 and Pippen was almost a corpse walking by their last two runs.

I was born in 91 and didn't start following the league until 02...so I could be wrong but didn't that Pippen/Grant led team make it to the post season without Jordan? It was a really good team, led by one of the best coaches in league history, that was successful without him.

Yes, Pippen and Grant did lead the Bulls to the post season the year Jordan left. But that's hardly a measure to quantify whether or not a team is a super team. A well coached team with a star player isn't going to all of a sudden turn into a lottery team just because the best player leaves; this isn't even mentioning all of the roleplayers Chicago in the off season added to help keep the team competitive.

[TheLand13]

Or...hear me out....MJ is the GOAT

He may be....but he never had to go through the level of competition LeBron has had to go through.

Outside of the super team Warriors (which were together for just two seasons), Lebron's competition wasn't anything special.

Lebron lost to Dirk and bums in 2011. Then he lost again to the corpse of Duncan and a 22 year-old Kawhi in 2014. He's blown some easy finals match-ups.

I don’t know how this turned into another Jordan vs LeBron debate, but you have to be clueless or downright delusional to think those two teams were easy matchups for the heat.

The Mavericks swept the 2x defending champion Lakers and took out the thunder in five, and had a system perfectly built in place to limit LeBron.

And the Spurs won 62 games that season and were better across the board compared to the previous years team that took a much better Miami Heat team to seven games in the finals and had them on the brink of elimination. How on earth is that an easy matchup for them?

Also, outside the superteam Warriors? So you’re telling me the 73 win warriors were nothing special? I understand that the version the Cavaliers beat had health issues, but that’s still a pretty incredible team to beat in the finals.

[DTP]

We don't have to pretend about something that blatantly isn't true. Who in the world would call a team whose best three players are Jordan, Pippen, and Horace Grant a super team? The second three peat is more closer to a super team but I'd still hesitate to call them that when Rodman was on the wrong side of 30 and Pippen was almost a corpse walking by their last two runs.

I was born in 91 and didn't start following the league until 02...so I could be wrong but didn't that Pippen/Grant led team make it to the post season without Jordan? It was a really good team, led by one of the best coaches in league history, that was successful without him.

Yes, Pippen and Grant did lead the Bulls to the post season the year Jordan left. But that's hardly a measure to quantify whether or not a team is a super team. A well coached team with a star player isn't going to all of a sudden turn into a lottery team just because the best player leaves; this isn't even mentioning all of the roleplayers Chicago in the off season added to help keep the team competitive.

Take LeBron off of any of his teams and none of them are making the playoffs. The only exception is maybe the Wade/Bosh squad if they had stayed healthy but fact is, they didn't. Won 37 games the following year.... I didn't mean for my comments to turn into a GOAT debate because as I've said, I don't know....I didn't watch Jordan's career.

But it is glaringly obvious that James faced tougher competition than Jordan did.

[OriginalRed]

I was born in 91 and didn't start following the league until 02...so I could be wrong but didn't that Pippen/Grant led team make it to the post season without Jordan? It was a really good team, led by one of the best coaches in league history, that was successful without him.

Yes, Pippen and Grant did lead the Bulls to the post season the year Jordan left. But that's hardly a measure to quantify whether or not a team is a super team. A well coached team with a star player isn't going to all of a sudden turn into a lottery team just because the best player leaves; this isn't even mentioning all of the roleplayers Chicago in the off season added to help keep the team competitive.

Take LeBron off of any of his teams and none of them are making the playoffs. The only exception is maybe the Wade/Bosh squad if they had stayed healthy but fact is, they didn't. Won 37 games the following year.... I didn't mean for my comments to turn into a GOAT debate because as I've said, I don't know....I didn't watch Jordan's career.

But it is glaringly obvious that James faced tougher competition than Jordan did.

I mean, you should have known it was going to turn into a debate when you made a statement like that out of nowhere when you responded to that guy from before. Even if it's true that he did, it's not like that's the deciding factor in the GOAT debate anyway.

[DTP]

Yes, Pippen and Grant did lead the Bulls to the post season the year Jordan left. But that's hardly a measure to quantify whether or not a team is a super team. A well coached team with a star player isn't going to all of a sudden turn into a lottery team just because the best player leaves; this isn't even mentioning all of the roleplayers Chicago in the off season added to help keep the team competitive.

Take LeBron off of any of his teams and none of them are making the playoffs. The only exception is maybe the Wade/Bosh squad if they had stayed healthy but fact is, they didn't. Won 37 games the following year.... I didn't mean for my comments to turn into a GOAT debate because as I've said, I don't know....I didn't watch Jordan's career.

But it is glaringly obvious that James faced tougher competition than Jordan did.

I mean, you should have known it was going to turn into a debate when you made a statement like that out of nowhere when you responded to that guy from before. Even if it's true that he did, it's not like that's the deciding factor in the GOAT debate anyway.

Someone commented that he was GOAT because of his ovation and I simply stated that ovation could have been because it was his first appearance of the week, unlike LeBron.