Does the 2015/16 Cleveland Cavaliers still win NBA Finals with Kyrie replaced by PRIME KYLE LOWRY

Moderators: Clav, Domejandro, ken6199, bisme37, Dirk, KingDavid, cupcakesnake, bwgood77, zimpy27, infinite11285

Would 2016 Cavs still have won NBA finals with Kyrie being replaced by prime Kyle Lowry

Poll ended at Wed Mar 2, 2022 1:00 am

Yes
80
48%
No
88
52%
 
Total votes: 168

TheLand13
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,289
And1: 4,534
Joined: Aug 31, 2021
     

Re: Does the 2015/16 Cleveland Cavaliers still win NBA Finals with Kyrie replaced by PRIME KYLE LOWRY 

Post#121 » by TheLand13 » Thu Feb 24, 2022 10:18 pm

youngcrev wrote:My assumption as to why it's as close as it is is that there are so many Toronto Raptors fans on here.


I'm a Cavaliers fan and voted Lowry. A lot of it boils down to fit. Lowry just fits better and would improve the Cavaliers overall. People who are saying the Cavaliers needed that secondary elite iso scorer are demonstrating a complete lack of basketball knowledge and basic understanding of the game. Ignoring the obvious fact that Lowry in of himself was a very capable scorer at the time (obviously not on the level of Irving though), his defense and ability to effectively run the team at much higher level than Irving ever could would've been extremely valuable to that Cavaliers team.

Another issue that I've been noticing in this thread is that the majority of people picking Irving clearly didn't watch the series and are blindly going off of stats. They see the legendary game 5 performance, the pretty overall stats, and the historic game 7 shot that gave Cleveland the lead and just assume there's no way Cleveland could have won that series without him, when in reality, Irving was a key reason as to why they were on the verge of losing in the first place.

But it's not like this is something I'm 100% confident in. Again, as I said before, for all we know Cleveland might have been swept in that series had Lowry played. Again, who knows? I've never been a fan of what-if scenarios and I never will be, because the game of basketball is complex and hard to predict. Games that are decided on a play by play basis through it's entirety are hard to critically analyze when understanding how different things would have been if the personal had been different. Every play involving said players changes, in ways we might not expect or understand.
User avatar
Rapcity_11
RealGM
Posts: 24,803
And1: 9,694
Joined: Jul 26, 2006
     

Re: Does the 2015/16 Cleveland Cavaliers still win NBA Finals with Kyrie replaced by PRIME KYLE LOWRY 

Post#122 » by Rapcity_11 » Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:11 am

Kyrie's last 11 games of the '16 playoffs: 26/4/4 on 56% TS
Lowry's last 11 games of the '16 playoffs: 24/5/5 on 58% TS

Hmmmmmm.
nikster
RealGM
Posts: 14,432
And1: 12,933
Joined: Sep 08, 2013

Re: Does the 2015/16 Cleveland Cavaliers still win NBA Finals with Kyrie replaced by PRIME KYLE LOWRY 

Post#123 » by nikster » Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:33 am

art_tatum wrote:
nikster wrote:
art_tatum wrote:Lol those who voted Lowry. Check the stats of kyrie after the 0-2 start (avg 30+ points) and how he almost single handily turned around that 3-1 series (since Lebron was playing consistently throughout- except for game 2 and another one).

He single handily went through the warriors defense, iggy klay none of them could stop kyrie one on one when the cavs needed a bucket with the warriors D set

Why would you ignore almost 30% of a 7 game series? What would it look if we ignored his 41 point outburst in game 5? All of a sudden he's providing 25 ppg on poor efficiency



I’m saying if he didn’t turn it up like he did the cavs would’ve lost since they were down 0-2 when he didn’t play well.
I don’t think Lowry could’ve carried the offensive bucket getting against a set D kyrie carried in the later games. It isn’t all about % when u watch the games he made some difficult shots when the cavs needed it the most.

And if they had Lowry they might not need that scoring. Maybe they'd get some easier buckets because Lowrys great at pushing the pace and finding the open man, or would lead to a few more stops that would give them a cushion. Maybe they win one of the first 2 games and have extra buffer.

Lowry averaged 23 in a hard fought 7 game series with Miami that year without playing next to Lebron. Not crazy to think the other things he brings (playmaking, D, leadership...) makes up the gap
User avatar
Rapcity_11
RealGM
Posts: 24,803
And1: 9,694
Joined: Jul 26, 2006
     

Re: Does the 2015/16 Cleveland Cavaliers still win NBA Finals with Kyrie replaced by PRIME KYLE LOWRY 

Post#124 » by Rapcity_11 » Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:05 am

Kyrie Irving went 7-20 in the 2nd halves of game 6-7. Yes, he hit a big shot in game 7. That doesn't mean he was some clutch assassin all series.
User avatar
adubmac
Junior
Posts: 472
And1: 969
Joined: Aug 21, 2002
Contact:
     

Re: Does the 2015/16 Cleveland Cavaliers still win NBA Finals with Kyrie replaced by PRIME KYLE LOWRY 

Post#125 » by adubmac » Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:23 am

As a lifelong Raptors fan who appreciates all that Lowry did for the team, I can tell you that Kyle is not that guy.

I can remember countless playoff series where he came up short and even during the championship run, he was either the 3rd of 4th most important Raptor depending on the series. There is zero chance that Kyle is pulling, let along hitting that 3 that won the Cavs their ring in game 7.
holy wack unlyrical lyrics
User avatar
Rapcity_11
RealGM
Posts: 24,803
And1: 9,694
Joined: Jul 26, 2006
     

Re: Does the 2015/16 Cleveland Cavaliers still win NBA Finals with Kyrie replaced by PRIME KYLE LOWRY 

Post#126 » by Rapcity_11 » Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:34 am

adubmac wrote:As a lifelong Raptors fan who appreciates all that Lowry did for the team, I can tell you that Kyle is not that guy.

I can remember countless playoff series where he came up short and even during the championship run, he was either the 3rd of 4th most important Raptor depending on the series. There is zero chance that Kyle is pulling, let along hitting that 3 that won the Cavs their ring in game 7.


Kobe187
Starter
Posts: 2,484
And1: 2,190
Joined: Jun 08, 2019

Re: Does the 2015/16 Cleveland Cavaliers still win NBA Finals with Kyrie replaced by PRIME KYLE LOWRY 

Post#127 » by Kobe187 » Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:24 am

Maybe Harden and Paul could’ve replaced Kyrie with the Cavs still winning but that’s about it, Curry was on the other team, Westbrook and Lowry would come up short, extremely hard to top Kyrie during that playoff run.

Return to The General Board