Nets v. Celtics | 2.24.2022 @ 7:30 PM on TNT/YES

[HardenGoat]

I wouldn’t read too much into this game. What I saw was the lack of gravity without Durant or Kyrie on the floor. Mills and Curry were trying to create shots and got relegated to playmaking duties. Patty in particular is a rhythm spot up shooter coming off screens. He didn’t get any of those opportunities and certainly was out of rhythm due to it. Same with curry. Dragic is going to be huge in relieving them of that. Add the stars and Dragic the problem is fixed offensively. Add Simmons and you won’t see those easy 3’s either. This game just showed a lack of players, Nash is right. My biggest question is why Simmons isn’t playing he is young and should be healthy. My guess is they want him playing only with star gravity around him to make sure he has winning games and builds positive vibes right out of the gate.

[TheNetsFan]

...I'd fire Nash and Marks if we don't win the chip this year.

Marks did a great job setting the culture and bringing the stars. He hasn't shown the ability to make a championship roster. Last year defense was a glaring weakness. This year our shooting has been terrible n we have 5 centers. We can make all the excuses we want but he can't put together a balanced roster.

Whoa, that's a hell of a lot of expectations for a rookie GM who for the most part has performed miracles since he got here.

Nash has been a bad mistake, but every GM makes bad mistakes from time to time. Also, for anyone to be expecting (borderline assuming) a championship is just... well, that's pretty much a guaranteed way of being a miserable sports fan, tell you hwat.

I don't know why so many people do that to themselves. Even for dynasties and semi-dynasties, it doesn't take much for things to go wrong in any given season.

An argument can be made that Nash wasn't a mistake as long as we had an established, veteran coach behind him who excelled at creating a system that allowed everyone to eat. The Nash (media face) and D'Antoni (behind the scenes offensive coordinator) combo worked well. The loss of D'Antoni was the killer. We can assume it had some correlation to Harden's departure, though I'm not sure if Harden's desire to get to Philly impacted D'Antoni's decision to return or D'Antoni's departure got Harden more interested in Philly.

[NetsWorld]

...I'd fire Nash and Marks if we don't win the chip this year.

Marks did a great job setting the culture and bringing the stars. He hasn't shown the ability to make a championship roster. Last year defense was a glaring weakness. This year our shooting has been terrible n we have 5 centers. We can make all the excuses we want but he can't put together a balanced roster.

Whoa, that's a hell of a lot of expectations for a rookie GM who for the most part has performed miracles since he got here.

Nash has been a bad mistake, but every GM makes bad mistakes from time to time. Also, for anyone to be expecting (borderline assuming) a championship is just... well, that's pretty much a guaranteed way of being a miserable sports fan, tell you hwat.

I don't know why so many people do that to themselves. Even for dynasties and semi-dynasties, it doesn't take much for things to go wrong in any given season.

An argument can be made that Nash wasn't a mistake as long as we had an established, veteran coach behind him who excelled at creating a system that allowed everyone to eat. The Nash (media face) and D'Antoni (behind the scenes offensive coordinator) combo worked well. The loss of D'Antoni was the killer. We can assume it had some correlation to Harden's departure, though I'm not sure if Harden's desire to get to Philly impacted D'Antoni's decision to return or D'Antoni's departure got Harden more interested in Philly.

Rivers will lose his job soon enough when Harden requests D'Antoni's presence. I certainly hope karma gets Harden hard for quitting on his second team. I just want this damn Nets team to come together already; I am tired of the drama and what if scenarios; please get Kyrie off this team next year if he pulls something else off.

[Prokorov]

Alot of hate in this thread and rightfully so but i think it is displaced a bit... My thoughts:

1) James Johnson was bad. But honestly what do you expect when you take a role player and ask him to be an offense creator. We literally have EVERY offense creator on our team in street clothes other then Cam, who only creates for himself (not a knock on cam). Nash is asking Johnson and Curry to be the offense creators. Curry is ok, Johnson isnt that guy. He can in a small role, not for 25-30 minutes. Marks had all the chances to get one... i mean ish smith, augustin,... these guys were cheap. I'll give marks a pass cause the Harden thing obviously was complex, but its more an issue of personal and coaching then it is Johnson. We have seen Johnson be a plus ni a 10-15 minute role with low usage.

2) Nash was bad, but not god awful worst coach of all time bad like he usually is. the switch to zone was a nice touch, something i thought we should be doing. it worked well under atkinson and we have the right guys to do it. The threes and open threes are due to one thing: MASSIVE MASSIVE MASSIVE over-helping. We constantly send help on scrubs. let Horford or Grant williams prove they can torch you as a go to scorer off the dribble or in the post. send help on tatum, live with the rest. Smart always kills us, close out on his threes.

Thats really it. we wont win until we have 2+ stars in the lineup. Nash isnt good enough to win with 1 or less, even if the 1 is KD.

[MrDollarBills]

Not gonna lie to you folks. Ever since KD and Kyrie signed here it has been an absolutely miserable experience. It just hasn't been fun at all.

[Prokorov]

Not gonna lie to you folks. Ever since KD and Kyrie signed here it has been an absolutely miserable experience. It just hasn't been fun at all.

Disagree. last year was super fun until the kyrie injury. this year different. but next year looks good.

[MrDollarBills]

Alot of hate in this thread and rightfully so but i think it is displaced a bit... My thoughts:

1) James Johnson was bad. But honestly what do you expect when you take a role player and ask him to be an offense creator. We literally have EVERY offense creator on our team in street clothes other then Cam, who only creates for himself (not a knock on cam). Nash is asking Johnson and Curry to be the offense creators. Curry is ok, Johnson isnt that guy. He can in a small role, not for 25-30 minutes. Marks had all the chances to get one... i mean ish smith, augustin,... these guys were cheap. I'll give marks a pass cause the Harden thing obviously was complex, but its more an issue of personal and coaching then it is Johnson. We have seen Johnson be a plus ni a 10-15 minute role with low usage.

2) Nash was bad, but not god awful worst coach of all time bad like he usually is. the switch to zone was a nice touch, something i thought we should be doing. it worked well under atkinson and we have the right guys to do it. The threes and open threes are due to one thing: MASSIVE MASSIVE MASSIVE over-helping. We constantly send help on scrubs. let Horford or Grant williams prove they can torch you as a go to scorer off the dribble or in the post. send help on tatum, live with the rest. Smart always kills us, close out on his threes.

Thats really it. we wont win until we have 2+ stars in the lineup. Nash isnt good enough to win with 1 or less, even if the 1 is KD.

Pretty much this.

The roster right now is decimated with 95% of the salary cap unavailable. Nash sucks, but christ. Who the hell is beating Boston with what we marched out there last night? No shot creators, a rookie volume shooter. Boston sent two guys at Seth and Patty every time they touched the ball.

The losses will continue to mount until KD, Kyrie, Ben, and Dragic enter the line up.

[ecuhus1981]

It's crazy how rabid some folks on here are to throw Cam under the bus. Yall act like he's not in his rookie season.

I'm not calling for the young man's head. I think he has been better than I anticipated before the season so far.

We can still be critical of this team, right? And every member of it? I feel that the mistakes that Cam makes on defense are day one issues, not rookie issues. A strong team should be able to tell a strong rookie that they need to improve, and we should see that improvement month over month. Cam only seems focused on improving his offense. That might be his calling card, but he's baling water from a sinking boat because his D undoes all the good he brings on offense. And it's easier to go from putrid to merely very bad, than it is to go from subpar to good.

If you'd think I'm just being a rabid fan looking for a scapegoat, and would like a little subjective context, here you go:

https://craftednba.com/players/cam-thomas

Cam is in the 4th percentile of NBA players on defense. That's not normal, even for a rookie, especially drafted in the 1st round and as highly touted as he is. He clearly has the athleticism to be better on D, and he's hungry for minutes. Make him earn it by being a more positive contributor. Check out 538, Cleaning the Glass or any other outlet, if you want further proof.

[MGrand15]

Not gonna lie to you folks. Ever since KD and Kyrie signed here it has been an absolutely miserable experience. It just hasn't been fun at all.

Disagree. last year was super fun until the kyrie injury. this year different. but next year looks good.

It feels like 8 years ago but last season we were stomping all the elite teams in the league. We were scoring 140 a game. We had Jeff Green dunking on dudes left and right. Mike James doing weird stuff. Clax showing a ton of potential. It was fun.

This year has been terrible and depressing since Day 1. I honestly haven't skipped this many games since we won like 12 games that one season.

[MrDollarBills]

It's crazy how rabid some folks on here are to throw Cam under the bus. Yall act like he's not in his rookie season.

I'm not calling for the young man's head. I think he has been better than I anticipated before the season so far.

We can still be critical of this team, right? And every member of it? I feel that the mistakes that Cam makes on defense are day one issues, not rookie issues. A strong team should be able to tell a strong rookie that they need to improve, and we should see that improvement month over month. Cam only seems focused on improving his offense. That might be his calling card, but he's baling water from a sinking boat because his D undoes all the good he brings on offense. And it's easier to go from putrid to merely very bad, than it is to go from subpar to good.

If you'd think I'm just being a rabid fan looking for a scapegoat, and would like a little subjective context, here you go:

https://craftednba.com/players/cam-thomas

Cam is in the 4th percentile of NBA players on defense. That's not normal, even for a rookie, especially drafted in the 1st round and as highly touted as he is. He clearly has the athleticism to be better on D, and he's hungry for minutes. Make him earn it by being a more positive contributor. Check out 538, Cleaning the Glass or any other outlet, if you want further proof.

He's not above reproach but writing him off as Marshon Brooks in his rookie year where things are just all over the place with this dysfunctional team isn't really a fair assessment.

[gigantes]

An argument can be made that Nash wasn't a mistake as long as we had an established, veteran coach behind him who excelled at creating a system that allowed everyone to eat. The Nash (media face) and D'Antoni (behind the scenes offensive coordinator) combo worked well. The loss of D'Antoni was the killer. We can assume it had some correlation to Harden's departure, though I'm not sure if Harden's desire to get to Philly impacted D'Antoni's decision to return or D'Antoni's departure got Harden more interested in Philly.

I think we've collectively covered all that ground before, and I'm maybe doing the same when I suggest that hiring a HC without any previous coaching experience is probably going to look like a big mistake unless that person demonstrates glimpses of being a prodigy, at least. Being a media guy / players' coach who needs a real coach to lean on may be workable in theory, but I still want to see some character and some potential.

I suspect the bigger reason Marks decided to take that unusual risk is because he wanted to cement and extend his vision of proper team culture, and gamble that skills-wise Nash could grow in to the job. Which is likely the same reason he's stuck with him so long. Sort of an investment / sunk cost thing. Because if somehow the Nets gather themselves and make a deep playoff run, Marks' plan could still have legs. Alternatively, if he were to pull the plug on the experiment and get an experienced guy in here, then Marks has to compromise on his vision of culture, because Nash was more like a blank slate, and a different guy is likely to have a whole batch of opinions on what's the right way to do things.

In a way I have to admire Marks' vision and willingness to gamble with the Nash hire, and can even understand why he sticks with it. It has to be a fairly stressful thing at this point, even with the scapegoat of injuries. Still though, it's pretty obvious he should have compromised his vision a bit and found an experienced coach, even if it meant someone less open to being Sean Marks Junior. Could that have been Kenny? Maybe not, but either way, Kenny earned more of a shot than he was given IMO. But there must have been other decent options, too.

[3pt_chucker]

Not gonna lie to you folks. Ever since KD and Kyrie signed here it has been an absolutely miserable experience. It just hasn't been fun at all.

That's not really true. There has been multiple moments of joy but it just hasn't been sustained, as some kind of drama and injury disrupts it all. Z

I'd still take this over the dark days of NJ(post Kidd), Brook Lopez, JJ, Deron Williams era and rebuild era(DLo, Caris, Fro).

[MrDollarBills]

Not gonna lie to you folks. Ever since KD and Kyrie signed here it has been an absolutely miserable experience. It just hasn't been fun at all.

That's not really true. There has been multiple moments of joy but it just hasn't been sustained, as some kind of drama and injury disrupts it all. Z

I'd still take this over the dark days of NJ(post Kidd), Brook Lopez, JJ, Deron Williams era and rebuild era(DLo, Caris, Fro).

Last year we had some brief joy...this year has been a disaster.

I had more fun in the DLo, Caris, Allen and Dinwiddie days tbh. We didn't win anything but it was a lot more fun and less drama.

Kevin Durant is great. The rest of it has been just plain misery. Makes me question why i even root for this team anymore. I'm clearly not having fun watching this stuff.

[Jay555]

Not gonna lie to you folks. Ever since KD and Kyrie signed here it has been an absolutely miserable experience. It just hasn't been fun at all.

Nah, last season was golden until the injuries.

[Prokorov]

It's crazy how rabid some folks on here are to throw Cam under the bus. Yall act like he's not in his rookie season.

I'm not calling for the young man's head. I think he has been better than I anticipated before the season so far.

We can still be critical of this team, right? And every member of it? I feel that the mistakes that Cam makes on defense are day one issues, not rookie issues. A strong team should be able to tell a strong rookie that they need to improve, and we should see that improvement month over month. Cam only seems focused on improving his offense. That might be his calling card, but he's baling water from a sinking boat because his D undoes all the good he brings on offense. And it's easier to go from putrid to merely very bad, than it is to go from subpar to good.

If you'd think I'm just being a rabid fan looking for a scapegoat, and would like a little subjective context, here you go:

https://craftednba.com/players/cam-thomas

Cam is in the 4th percentile of NBA players on defense. That's not normal, even for a rookie, especially drafted in the 1st round and as highly touted as he is. He clearly has the athleticism to be better on D, and he's hungry for minutes. Make him earn it by being a more positive contributor. Check out 538, Cleaning the Glass or any other outlet, if you want further proof.

He's not above reproach but writing him off as Marshon Brooks in his rookie year where things are just all over the place with this dysfunctional team isn't really a fair assessment.

Hitting that shot vs. the knicks was bad for him... since then he has taken way to many 50 foot step back logo threes.

He needs to be aggressive but the awareness needs to be there too.

Nash is not helping him. our coaching staff top to bottom is awful

[therealbig3]

It's crazy how rabid some folks on here are to throw Cam under the bus. Yall act like he's not in his rookie season.

I'm not calling for the young man's head. I think he has been better than I anticipated before the season so far.

We can still be critical of this team, right? And every member of it? I feel that the mistakes that Cam makes on defense are day one issues, not rookie issues. A strong team should be able to tell a strong rookie that they need to improve, and we should see that improvement month over month. Cam only seems focused on improving his offense. That might be his calling card, but he's baling water from a sinking boat because his D undoes all the good he brings on offense. And it's easier to go from putrid to merely very bad, than it is to go from subpar to good.

If you'd think I'm just being a rabid fan looking for a scapegoat, and would like a little subjective context, here you go:

https://craftednba.com/players/cam-thomas

Cam is in the 4th percentile of NBA players on defense. That's not normal, even for a rookie, especially drafted in the 1st round and as highly touted as he is. He clearly has the athleticism to be better on D, and he's hungry for minutes. Make him earn it by being a more positive contributor. Check out 538, Cleaning the Glass or any other outlet, if you want further proof.

He's not above reproach but writing him off as Marshon Brooks in his rookie year where things are just all over the place with this dysfunctional team isn't really a fair assessment.

I think we forget how high we were on Marshon Brooks initially, and the fact that he actually made the Rising Stars challenge and was All-Rookie 2nd team.

I'm not writing him off, but I just don't see him being some star in the making. I'm just talking about expectations. We overhyped Marshon, and then it became clear that it wasn't meant to be. Let's be honest in terms of our expectations with Cam, otherwise it'll be the same thing. But I'll be honest, I'm not seeing him do anything noticeably better than Marshon did. His overall mold as a player looks to be very similar. The difference is, Cam is 20, and Marshon came in as a 23 year old finished product as a rookie, so yes, Cam has more time to work on his game and get better.

Working on his defense and adding a consistent 3 ball would be a start.

[gigantes]

Last year we had some brief joy...this year has been a disaster.

I had more fun in the DLo, Caris, Allen and Dinwiddie days tbh. We didn't win anything but it was a lot more fun and less drama.

Kevin Durant is great. The rest of it has been just plain misery. Makes me question why i even root for this team anymore. I'm clearly not having fun watching this stuff.

Yeah man, it's eerily the same over here.

Marks is a huge talent at generating picks and hitting 'singles,' and IMO the result of those talents in a vacuum is an endlessly entertaining ride, not unlike a top college team, let's say. Like-- you never quite know what any given year will bring, but there's always the potential for a deep run, and always the solace of next year.

Plus, Marks undoubtedly gets better at various facets with time, and eventually finds the right coach to be the long-term culture / skills fit. All parts of that likely easier and smoother with the lowered expectations.

This KD / Kyrie-centric club is like swinging for the fences all season long. Expectations are now sky-high, salary cap flexibility is mostly gone, and future picks have been pre-invested. Pressure's so much higher now, and there's so many more things that can go wrong.

Prokhy and Marks may have gone about it differently and more smartly, but to me, the various blockbuster deals and signings also represents the pressure of a big market once again unnaturally affecting the natural arc of team-building.

/mini-rant

[Paradise]

Last year we had some brief joy...this year has been a disaster.

I had more fun in the DLo, Caris, Allen and Dinwiddie days tbh. We didn't win anything but it was a lot more fun and less drama.

Kevin Durant is great. The rest of it has been just plain misery. Makes me question why i even root for this team anymore. I'm clearly not having fun watching this stuff.

Yeah man, it's eerily the same over here.

Marks is a huge talent at generating picks and hitting 'singles,' and IMO the result of those talents in a vacuum is an endlessly entertaining ride, not unlike a top college team, let's say. Like-- you never quite know what any given year will bring, but there's always the potential for a deep run, and always the solace of next year.

Plus, Marks undoubtedly gets better at various facets with time, and eventually finds the right coach to be the long-term culture / skills fit. All parts of that likely easier and smoother with the lowered expectations.

This KD / Kyrie-centric club is like swinging for the fences all season long. Expectations are now sky-high, salary cap flexibility is mostly gone, and future picks have been pre-invested. Pressure's so much higher now, and there's so many more things that can go wrong.

Prokhy and Marks may have gone about it differently and more smartly, but to me, the various blockbuster deals and signings also represents the pressure of a big market once again unnaturally affecting the natural arc of team-building.

/mini-rant

However, we are no longer a ‘small market’ looked at franchise and organization. We will have that aura until Durant retires and he’s continuing to say that he’s retiring as a Net. It could change but he’s far more likely to stay until 2026 than LeBron in LA right now. We’re actually the franchise that other NBA stars like LeBron, Morant, Curry, Draymond are trolling Harden for leaving.

Obviously, Marks and company have to deliver but honestly, Sean Marks and the rest of our top management isn’t going anywhere for another 4-5 years. One championship will ensure that Marks/Nash will get Spo/Riley Heat level lifetime deals. Like it or not.

There is gifts and curses with being in NYC but we look like a destination franchise going forward and the only competent one going forward. That’s historical at this point. Up and coming stars, superstars and all-time greats in the next 10-20 years of basketball coming into the league won’t care how Harden left. They’ll care that he was a Net along with Kidd, Carter, KD, Kyrie and Steve Nash.

We got Kyrie because of Jason Kidd and Vince Carter’s legacy as Nets.

[gigantes]

Last year we had some brief joy...this year has been a disaster.

I had more fun in the DLo, Caris, Allen and Dinwiddie days tbh. We didn't win anything but it was a lot more fun and less drama.

Kevin Durant is great. The rest of it has been just plain misery. Makes me question why i even root for this team anymore. I'm clearly not having fun watching this stuff.

Yeah man, it's eerily the same over here.

Marks is a huge talent at generating picks and hitting 'singles,' and IMO the result of those talents in a vacuum is an endlessly entertaining ride, not unlike a top college team, let's say. Like-- you never quite know what any given year will bring, but there's always the potential for a deep run, and always the solace of next year.

Plus, Marks undoubtedly gets better at various facets with time, and eventually finds the right coach to be the long-term culture / skills fit. All parts of that likely easier and smoother with the lowered expectations.

This KD / Kyrie-centric club is like swinging for the fences all season long. Expectations are now sky-high, salary cap flexibility is mostly gone, and future picks have been pre-invested. Pressure's so much higher now, and there's so many more things that can go wrong.

Prokhy and Marks may have gone about it differently and more smartly, but to me, the various blockbuster deals and signings also represents the pressure of a big market once again unnaturally affecting the natural arc of team-building.

/mini-rant

However, we are no longer a ‘small market’ looked at franchise and organization. We will have that aura until Durant retires and he’s continuing to say that he’s retiring as a Net.

...

We got Kyrie because of Jason Kidd and Vince Carter’s legacy as Nets.

Well... we're not a 'small market' no matter what, directly due to 1) the Brooklyn move, 2) the new stadium, and 3) a deep-pockets owner. The 4) player-friendly GM and culture only greases all those wheels.

Durant is just the current big name (and yes, a great one) to be floating through here, but now that the infrastructure is solid, that's going to keep happening from now on. The 'Jersey dog days' are over IMO.

I myself think we mainly got Kyrie because he and KD liked the infrastructure mentioned above and enjoyed getting a direct taste of the culture at work via their workouts with Caris and maybe a few others (DWid too?). They could have gone to other big markets, either together or separately, but I think it was bonus points for them being in a situation to mentor younger guys.

Maybe having some historically great players like Dr. J and later ones made a difference too, but either way, I'm sure it was a combination of factors that brought them here. Also, Kyrie's hometown team, of course.

Also, like I said above, I'm not sure if their signing was actually for the best. Happy to be proven wrong, though!