Porzingis + 2nd round pick for Dinwiddie, Bertans

[Kanyewest]

FNG question - Is the green for angry? Tongue in cheek when you want write some crazy talk?

NONE OF IT MAKES ANY SENSE.

Green is sarcasm.

[queridiculo]

FNG question - Is the green for angry? Tongue in cheek when you want write some crazy talk?

NONE OF IT MAKES ANY SENSE.

To me this is the problem with numbers over everything in a nutshell.

Efficiency does not tell the story, Bryant is awful, and I'd trust the eye test before believing anything the stat sheet tells me about him as a player.

[AFM]

If you leave out scoring & rebounding, KP is just slightly above average on the rest of the standard stuff.

This really is PIF in a nutshell. Someone should sticky this.

[payitforward]

Defense

Oh that's just blocks plus steals.

Are there any useful metrics that show Porzingis as a plus defender? I.e., do opposing players score a lower FG% when he's on the floor? Or, do they get up fewer shots, for that matter? Commit more turnovers? Any real numbers that indicate a positive defensive presence will count just as much as bad or mediocre numbers on offense.

I don't have anything against Porzingis. He didn't steal a parking space from me. Or buy the last hot dog from the stand. I'd rather he be good than bad.

To find out how good or bad Porzingis is as an NBA player, we can look at his numbers. Just as we would with any other player. Not just one number but all of them. Not just from one game but over time.

The better the numbers are, the better he is. The worse they are, the worse he is.

If they show improvement over time, that's good. If the opposite, that's bad. But... "improving" isn't the same as "good." Still, it does give you at least some hope that the improvement might continue -- that the player might actually get to be "good."

Porzingis has been better with Dallas, i.e. the last 3 years, than he was with the Knicks. & this year, overall, he's about as good as he was last year.

Non-scoring stuff is a little better than last year, while scoring is a little worse -- even though his 2 pt.% is pretty much unchanged & his FT% is up a bit (on more trips to the line, too, which is great) -- because his 3-pt. % has fallen from .376 last year to .283 this season.

Overall, this year -- like last year & every year of his career so far -- Kristaps Porzingis has been a below average NBA Center.

[Dat2U]

Defense

Oh that's just blocks plus steals.

Are there any useful metrics that show Porzingis as a plus defender? I.e., do opposing players score a lower FG% when he's on the floor? Or, do they get up fewer shots, for that matter? Commit more turnovers? Any real numbers that indicate a positive defensive presence will count just as much as bad or mediocre numbers on offense.

I don't have anything against Porzingis. He didn't steal a parking space from me. Or buy the last hot dog from the stand. I'd rather he be good than bad.

To find out how good or bad Porzingis is as an NBA player, we can look at his numbers. Just as we would with any other player. Not just one number but all of them. Not just from one game but over time.

The better the numbers are, the better he is. The worse they are, the worse he is.

If they show improvement over time, that's good. If the opposite, that's bad. But... "improving" isn't the same as "good." Still, it does give you at least some hope that the improvement might continue -- that the player might actually get to be "good."

Porzingis has been better with Dallas, i.e. the last 3 years, than he was with the Knicks. & this year, overall, he's about as good as he was last year.

Non-scoring stuff is a little better than last year, while scoring is a little worse -- even though his 2 pt.% is pretty much unchanged & his FT% is up a bit (on more trips to the line, too, which is great) -- because his 3-pt. % has fallen from .376 last year to .283 this season.

Overall, this year -- like last year & every year of his career so far -- Kristaps Porzingis has been a below average NBA Center.

Just because you haven't found a defensive measurement tool to your liking doesn't mean ignoring defensive impact and going off only blocks/steals is the way to go. Since you won't consider what a player does defensively outside of counting numbers, we get wonky ass opinions like the ones you consistently throw out because the statistical picture your painting is an incomplete one.

[NatP4]

I highly doubt that any other poster on this board thinks Thomas Bryant is a better player than Porzingis.

[Dat2U]

Code: Select all

Rank Name                  G   MP ORPM DRPM RPM
38.  Kristaps Porzingis   34 29.5 2.28 1.55 3.83
81.  Kyle Kuzma           56 33.4-0.57 2.54 1.97
105. Daniel Gafford       50 20.6-1.41 2.71 1.30
117. Bradley Beal         40 36.0 1.81-1.04 0.77
146. K. Caldwell-Pope     56 29.6-2.95 2.97 0.02
202. Thomas Bryant        17 17.2 0.64-1.87-1.24
237. Deni Avdija          59 23.7-0.62-1.17-1.79
277. Corey Kispert        54 20.1 0.04-2.32-2.28
334. Isaiah Todd          10  4.1-1.18-1.89-3.07
348. Rui Hachimura        19 18.4-0.93-2.30-3.23
368. Anthony Gill         27  8.7-0.09-3.37-3.46
415. Raul Neto            50 20.6-0.41-3.47-3.88
420. Cassius Winston       5  5.4-0.95-2.95-3.91
480. Joel Ayayi            7  2.9-2.37-2.57-4.94
481. Ish Smith            42 14.8-1.96-3.03-4.99
523. Vernon Carey          5  3.6-3.00-3.42-6.42



'Kristaps is obviously trash and Bryant is clearly better.'

'Deni, Corey & Rui are a great young core & the future!'

'Kuz is terrible and puts up empty numbers'

'Gill & Neto have been rock solid vets'

'Ish has been great, we should bring him back next year!'

Lol... never has board opinion & reality been more at odds.

[NatP4]

Giddey and Wagner ranked in the top 110.

[nate33]

Code: Select all

Rank Name                  G   MP ORPM DRPM RPM
38.  Kristaps Porzingis   34 29.5 2.28 1.55 3.83
81.  Kyle Kuzma           56 33.4-0.57 2.54 1.97
105. Daniel Gafford       50 20.6-1.41 2.71 1.30
117. Bradley Beal         40 36.0 1.81-1.04 0.77
146. K. Caldwell-Pope     56 29.6-2.95 2.97 0.02
202. Thomas Bryant        17 17.2 0.64-1.87-1.24
237. Deni Avdija          59 23.7-0.62-1.17-1.79
277. Corey Kispert        54 20.1 0.04-2.32-2.28
334. Isaiah Todd          10  4.1-1.18-1.89-3.07
348. Rui Hachimura        19 18.4-0.93-2.30-3.23
368. Anthony Gill         27  8.7-0.09-3.37-3.46
415. Raul Neto            50 20.6-0.41-3.47-3.88
420. Cassius Winston       5  5.4-0.95-2.95-3.91
480. Joel Ayayi            7  2.9-2.37-2.57-4.94
481. Ish Smith            42 14.8-1.96-3.03-4.99
523. Vernon Carey          5  3.6-3.00-3.42-6.42



'Kristaps is obviously trash and Bryant is clearly better.'

'Deni, Corey & Rui are a great young core & the future!'

'Kuz is terrible and puts up empty numbers'

'Gill & Neto have been rock solid vets'

'Ish has been great, we should bring him back next year!'

Lol... never has board opinion & reality been more at odds.

I think DRPM is pretty useful, and often passes the smell test; but bear in mind that it incorporates 2-3 years of data, which is necessary to filter out all the noise in on/off data. As a result, it is very slow to recognize improvements in individual players. That probably explains why Avdija is a negative on D, for example.

It should give a pretty accurate read on a guy like Porzingis.

[nate33]

FWIW, two years ago in Dallas, it appeared that Porzingis was a fairly effective defensive player, boosting the Mavericks DRtg by 1.5 points while on the floor, and Dallas was a fairly decent defensive team, ranking 16th in DRtg.

However, last year, it looks like Porzingis' presences was hugely detrimental to their D. The defense got 7.6 points worse when he was on the floor, and they were only the 20th ranked defense overall. Porzingis really battled injuries that year, playing in just 34 of 72 games. He was clearly not 100%, but to be fair, he is often not 100%

This year, the Maverick's defense was 0.7 points worse with him on the floor, which when you factor that he is facing starters, suggests that he was fine defensively, but not particularly imposing. It's worth noting that the Mavericks had the 2nd best defense in the league, so he can't be all that bad.

[Bob8]

KP would have been ok, if he didn't miss 1/3 of the season every year or if he didn't have max.contract. Mavs didn't by accident trade him, like Wizzards didn't by accident trade Dinwiddie and Bertans.

It cannot be much worse than having max. player not playing game after game. You can look at his stats and argue how good he's is, he's not good enough to get max. contract for sure, but the real problem is, that he's bringing 0 so many times being in civil clothes. And look at his playoffs performance, first year he was injured after few games and next he was disastrous.

[Mr B]

I thought Dinwiddie and Bertans were supposed to suck? Wasn’t that the narrative Wizards fans were trying to spin?

[DCZards]

I thought Dinwiddie and Bertans were supposed to suck? Wasn’t that the narrative Wizards fans were trying to spin?

They mostly sucked when they were in DC. But, if they play well in Dallas, that’s a good thing for them and the Mavs…and this Zards fan doesn’t have a problem with that.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

FWIW, two years ago in Dallas, it appeared that Porzingis was a fairly effective defensive player, boosting the Mavericks DRtg by 1.5 points while on the floor, and Dallas was a fairly decent defensive team, ranking 16th in DRtg.

However, last year, it looks like Porzingis' presences was hugely detrimental to their D. The defense got 7.6 points worse when he was on the floor, and they were only the 20th ranked defense overall. Porzingis really battled injuries that year, playing in just 34 of 72 games. He was clearly not 100%, but to be fair, he is often not 100%

This year, the Maverick's defense was 0.7 points worse with him on the floor, which when you factor that he is facing starters, suggests that he was fine defensively, but not particularly imposing. It's worth noting that the Mavericks had the 2nd best defense in the league, so he can't be all that bad.

Edited.,,I was wrong to think that it had to do with the Carlisle stepping down…NVM

[ozthegap]

I thought Dinwiddie and Bertans were supposed to suck? Wasn’t that the narrative Wizards fans were trying to spin?

They mostly sucked when they were in DC. But, if they play well in Dallas, that’s a good thing for them and the Mavs…and this Zards fan doesn’t have a problem with that.

From the drastic difference it seems obvious that after whatever locker room issues were going on here, Dinwiddie decided to mail it in. The NBA really needs to come up with some type of consequence for all this unprofessionalism. These guys are getting paid millions to play and just decide not to because someone hurt their feelings. That’s some bull

[Mr B]

I thought Dinwiddie and Bertans were supposed to suck? Wasn’t that the narrative Wizards fans were trying to spin?

They mostly sucked when they were in DC. But, if they play well in Dallas, that’s a good thing for them and the Mavs…and this Zards fan doesn’t have a problem with that.

From the drastic difference it seems obvious that after whatever locker room issues were going on here, Dinwiddie decided to mail it in. The NBA really needs to come up with some type of consequence for all this unprofessionalism. These guys are getting paid millions to play and just decide not to because someone hurt their feelings. That’s some bull

According to him he tried to show this in Washington but they weren’t hearing it.

Read on Twitter

?s=21

[doclinkin]

I thought Dinwiddie and Bertans were supposed to suck? Wasn’t that the narrative Wizards fans were trying to spin?

They mostly sucked when they were in DC. But, if they play well in Dallas, that’s a good thing for them and the Mavs…and this Zards fan doesn’t have a problem with that.

From the drastic difference it seems obvious that after whatever locker room issues were going on here, Dinwiddie decided to mail it in. The NBA really needs to come up with some type of consequence for all this unprofessionalism. These guys are getting paid millions to play and just decide not to because someone hurt their feelings. That’s some bull

Perhaps. I also get the sense that Beal feels immune to criticism in DC, and the chemistry issue was chiefly between those two -- who each need the ball to do what they do. We saw Spencer play better in games when Beal was out. Or when BB was off the floor. I dunno. Personally, I think toadie 'reporter' Quinton Mayo has turned it for me, he is antimatter-PR for Beal, makes me want some kind of change. Re-set button.

Bertans man, I feel personally betrayed by him, LOL.

[NatP4]

It’s a garbage culture in DC. They worship Beal. Treat him like a superstar when he was having a non-all star caliber season. They went and hired another mediocre people pleaser “players coach”.

Absolutely no surprise at all that Bertans and Dinwiddie are playing well with a change of scenery.

[Jimmy Recard]

I thought Dinwiddie and Bertans were supposed to suck? Wasn’t that the narrative Wizards fans were trying to spin?

You mean the narrative that every nba fan had whose watched the wizards this season, including Mavs fans? Relax mate, you’re in the honeymoon period. Bertans is still a bad contract, and Wiz fans were ecstatic with Dinwiddie after the first week of the season too. Things can change pretty quickly.

Fwiw, a lot of us thought Spencer would be more effective here as a 6th man. Nice to see them being used correctly atm.

[Mavrelous]

FWIW, two years ago in Dallas, it appeared that Porzingis was a fairly effective defensive player, boosting the Mavericks DRtg by 1.5 points while on the floor, and Dallas was a fairly decent defensive team, ranking 16th in DRtg.

However, last year, it looks like Porzingis' presences was hugely detrimental to their D. The defense got 7.6 points worse when he was on the floor, and they were only the 20th ranked defense overall. Porzingis really battled injuries that year, playing in just 34 of 72 games. He was clearly not 100%, but to be fair, he is often not 100%

This year, the Maverick's defense was 0.7 points worse with him on the floor, which when you factor that he is facing starters, suggests that he was fine defensively, but not particularly imposing. It's worth noting that the Mavericks had the 2nd best defense in the league, so he can't be all that bad.

KP had partially torn meniscus in the bubble and was sidelined, Mavs medical staff wanted it to rehab w/o surgery, it didn't work so he had late surgery, 2020 season came quickly, and Mavs had a lot of players out with COVID, and Dwight Powell was still recovering from his torn Achilles, so KP was rushed back, played on restricted minutes he couldn't move at all, he sucked at defense, this year he had long off season of recovery and came back much better.
A motivated KP is a very good help defender and rim protector, one of the best in the league, his man defense against physical players isn't good because he has high center of gravity and can be pushed around easily, but there aren't a lot of skilled physical centers in the league nowadays.
This is the problem with KP and this is why the FO decided to give up on him, when healthy and motivated, he showed he is a very good player and fit Mavs need like a glove, but spend most of his tenure recovering from injuries.