Brooklyn got bamboozled by James Harden

[HardenandWilt]

james harden set a lot of franchise records for the nets too, it seemed like he did every other game or so. It wasnt until this year that he stopped trying

[Cubbies2120]

I'm reversing course - I think (until I see how Simmons plays with the Nets at full power) the Sixers won the trade.

I initially gave Harden the benefit of the doubt, thinking he actually regressed a bit, but now it's clear that he was purposely tanking his value to the Nets to get a trade out of there.

I significantly respect Kobe more for demanding a trade out of LA, while still putting in effort day in and day out.
Harden did the exact opposite - he was scared to publicly demand a trade, but instead played at 50% until his team traded him. That's pretty soft IMO, and telling about his character.

Based on basketball ability alone, barring Simmons coming back and being a great fit with the Nets, the Sixers won the trade - I was wrong to give Harden the benefit of the doubt.

[sp6r=underrated]

Kidding aside, I was flabbergasted by all of the "experts" saying the Nets won this trade. Huh? You obviously have to take in account what they gave up 12 months ago to get Harden. They literally gave up an All Star in Jarrett Allen.

The only thing I actually liked from the Nets perspective was getting Seth Curry in the deal. He's a really good piece.

They could have had a lineup of

C - Allen
PF - Durant
SF - Harris
SG - LeVert
PG - Irving

These GM's need to stop gutting their teams for big names. It's just not working out. Bubble Lakers is an outlier but now we're seeing how bad of an idea that's turned out to be.

Sunk cost is a bi***
Smart people don't allow it to sway their decision making

Full agree. Just one slight amendment, "Smart people shouldn't allow it to sway their decision making." Even smart people fall victim to sunk costs

[ocelot17]

Brooklyn got trade raped.

[payton2kemp]

Posters here are really acting like Jarrett Allen is the next Shaquille O'Neal.

Hes a nice young player. Who only made the all star after two people got injured.

The Cavs likely overachieved this season and won't make the 2nd round. Next season they won't be in serious contention. And will eventually beg LeBron to come back like they always do.

James Harden is 1000x better than Allen will ever be. Were talking about one of the greatest scorers in NBA history. You have to make that trade 10/10. Its worth the risk.

And Levert is not even a positive asset. Hes constantly injured, inefficient, and a bad defender. Not even worth his contract.

Injuries derailed last season. And this season he quit.

But Nets would never have gotten Simmons otherwise.

You think we get Simmons for Allen, Levert and picks? It would have never happened.

Simmons is probably the best defensive player in the NBA. Which was the Nets biggest weakness for the last 2 years.

Remember that with Allen the Nets were still bad defensively.

I mean its a win win trade for everyone invovled. Harden didn't want to be in Brooklyn, Simmons not in Philly and Cavs got Allen for cheap. I say all three teams won.

Agreed.

Rockets did not win. Should have kept Allen.

But Sixers/Cavs won much more than the Nets did in the final trade. In my view.

Ya i meant Sixers/Nets/Cavs won. Those three teams, houstan is a mess. Should've kept Levert and taken Allen instead of the pick from the Cavs. All things consindered Nets did well, the Nets picks won't be very high and pick swaps are useless, maybe th 2027 swap might be worth something but thats so far away. Nets got picks back from the Sixers, so in essence Levert/Allen and a pick for Simmons.

Nets just need to find a way to be healthy and covid mandates to be lifted for Kyrie which will probably happen soon.

[therealbig3]

LOL what is going on, do people have that short of a memory? We're going to act like Harden didn't play EXACTLY the same way after the trade last year from the Rockets? That he didn't mesh perfectly with KD and Kyrie when they actually played together? That the Nets weren't the best team in the league by far with the big 3 together?

Man, so much revisionist history here.

When James Harden decides to sulk and mail it in, there's nothing you can do about it. The Nets had to trade him, and given the spot they were in, they got the best they could in that situation. Anyone with a brain could tell that he was going to play a lot better after being traded, because he had his motivation back. Anyone with a brain could also tell that the Sixers overall were going to be a lot better, because they essentially replaced two role players with a top 5-10 level player.

The issue is always the same with Harden though: how long until things implode in Philly? How healthy can Harden stay (and Embiid for that matter)? Do they have a strong enough supporting cast outside of their big 2?

But it's crazy to me that people are going to act like last year didn't happen and are gonna keep slinging these narratives that were clearly proven wrong already (Harden wasn't a good fit with KD/Kyrie, he wasn't worth the trade, etc).

[therealbig3]

Let's make something clear here. The Nets bamboozled themselves. They have no one to blame but themselves for buying into the super team hype and trading away key assets to make it happen. Now they are just a Durant and Irving walking away from being irrelevant again, and while I don't necessarily see Irving leaving given his love for the franchise, I can absolutely see Durant leaving if there are clear signs that this isn't working out. And before people claim "well they still have Irving", I'd like to introduce you to the past where Irving tried being the leader and explain how that worked out. Spoiler warning: it didn't.

People can say anything they want about Harden before the trade, with "he was a former MVP candidate" being my favorite. But here are the facts: Brooklyn had Irving and Durant. There is nothing you can do to convince me that the thing they needed most was more offense. That's idiotic. Forget Levert for a moment. Allen is looking like he's going to be a top 5 center in the league for years to come. You cannot justify giving up something like that, especially when it was already clear before he got traded that the potential was there. And now it's being shown before our very eyes. And what is he now? A walking double double on insane efficiency, and one of the best defensive centers in the league. And, by the way, an extremely smart player. It's hard to take advantage of his weaknesses because he does a very good job of preventing them from being exploited.

Actually, I take back what I said. Cleveland bamboozled the Nets. They now have both Allen and Levert and could potentially have the latter long term. I'm not saying Cleveland will win a title in the next few years, but the chances of them being more relevant and title contenders in the long term are far greater than Brooklyn's at this point. And we have only them to thank for that. So again, thank you Brooklyn, for continuing to prove after the disastrous trade with the Celtics that you are not capable of learning your lesson. Now Cleveland gets to be the one to benefit from it instead of them.

Maybe that's Brooklyn's calling. Building up an actual team and then throwing it all away to help others rebuild quickly. That's the only thing they've proven themselves to be capable of doing at this point, and hell they're pretty good at it.

I mean the Nets went from being a good team to easily the best team in the league after the Harden trade. This is revisionist history to act like the trade wasn't worth it at the time. They got injured and that's why they lost...when healthy, they dismantled every good team they came across, proving they were on another level. They were destroying the Bucks with just two of their big 3.

LOL, we don't have to be dishonest about what actually happened to try and sell a narrative.

[HardenandWilt]

LOL what is going on, do people have that short of a memory? We're going to act like Harden didn't play EXACTLY the same way after the trade last year from the Rockets? That he didn't mesh perfectly with KD and Kyrie when they actually played together? That the Nets weren't the best team in the league by far with the big 3 together?

Man, so much revisionist history here.

When James Harden decides to sulk and mail it in, there's nothing you can do about it. The Nets had to trade him, and given the spot they were in, they got the best they could in that situation. Anyone with a brain could tell that he was going to play a lot better after being traded, because he had his motivation back. Anyone with a brain could also tell that the Sixers overall were going to be a lot better, because they essentially replaced two role players with a top 5-10 level player.

The issue is always the same with Harden though: how long until things implode in Philly? How healthy can Harden stay (and Embiid for that matter)? Do they have a strong enough supporting cast outside of their big 2?

But it's crazy to me that people are going to act like last year didn't happen and are gonna keep slinging these narratives that were clearly proven wrong already (Harden wasn't a good fit with KD/Kyrie, he wasn't worth the trade, etc).

the difference is daryl morey and a guy who harden considers a father figure in tad brown are with the 76ers

[rocketsfan100]

Harden heart was never in it in Brooklyn. He wanted to be in Philly

[XtremeDunkz]

I mean its a win win trade for everyone invovled. Harden didn't want to be in Brooklyn, Simmons not in Philly and Cavs got Allen for cheap. I say all three teams won.

Agreed.

Rockets did not win. Should have kept Allen.

But Sixers/Cavs won much more than the Nets did in the final trade. In my view.

Ya i meant Sixers/Nets/Cavs won. Those three teams, houstan is a mess. Should've kept Levert and taken Allen instead of the pick from the Cavs. All things consindered Nets did well, the Nets picks won't be very high and pick swaps are useless, maybe th 2027 swap might be worth something but thats so far away. Nets got picks back from the Sixers, so in essence Levert/Allen and a pick for Simmons.

Nets just need to find a way to be healthy and covid mandates to be lifted for Kyrie which will probably happen soon.

The rockets could have Simmons and Maxey... this trade looked horrible for them from the jump.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

[therealbig3]

Harden heart was never in it in Brooklyn. He wanted to be in Philly

Maybe this year. Definitely not when he was demanding out from the Rockets, when he flat out said that Brooklyn was his number 1 choice before the trade. And he played amazing when he first got to Brooklyn, just like he is now with Philly. Doesn't seem like a guy whose heart wasn't in it at the time.

His heart is in it, until it's not. When things get tough, he starts sulking and mailing it in.

[Karate Diop]

Eh... Let's let Simmons take the court before we jump to conclusions.

The way things look right now the Sixers have the best player, the Nets still significantly improved from LeVert and JAFRO and the Cavaliers got better as well.

If you want to laugh at anyone laugh at the Rockets

Their swaps are actually even less likely to convey with the Nets picking up Simmons...

[SkyHookFTW]

Maybe, but what if Simmons comes out and nails 15 threes in his Nets debut

I stand a better chance of nailing J Lo, Billie Ellish, Lana Del Ray, and Ariana Grande next weekend than Simmons has of making 15 three's in his debut.

[Lockdown504090]

Maybe, but what if Simmons comes out and nails 15 threes in his Nets debut

I stand a better chance of nailing J Lo, Billie Ellish, Lana Del Ray, and Ariana Grande next weekend than Simmons has of making 3*** three's in his debut.

[FreeThrowLine]

Maybe, but what if Simmons comes out and nails 15 threes in his Nets debut

I stand a better chance of nailing J Lo, Billie Ellish, Lana Del Ray, and Ariana Grande next weekend than Simmons has of making 15 three's in his debut.

[BallerTalk]

I wouldn't way the Nets won but the Rockets really didn't win.

Two years later Nets and Sixers are still:




Two years later Rockets:



Nah, we're good playboy.

[JAYZGOAT]

Can both teams just be happy with their return? Why does someone have to 'win' the trade? The real losers are all the posters saying sixers won't get anything better than Malcolm brogdon or a group of role players. Those are the goofs we should be laughing at

[bebopdeluxe]

Can both teams just be happy with their return? Why does someone have to 'win' the trade? The real losers are all the posters saying sixers won't get anything better than Malcolm brogdon or a group of role players. Those are the goofs we should be laughing at

Absolutely. And where are those posters?

Scurrying like cockroaches for the cracks in the floorboard when you turn the light on.

[TheLand13]

7 first round picks is just BS.

You can't count the pick swaps unless they convey. We don't know if they will. The first one already did not.

One first round pick went for a year of Harden where he played like an MVP.

The next two are cancelled out by the Sixers picks.

So its essentially:

Levert
Allen
3 pick swaps

FOR

Simmons
Curry
Drummond

On what planet is that not worth it?

Curry is just better than Levert. Simmons is far better than Allen even with his limitations.

And with a younger Simmons it might be less likely that those swaps convey.

Is the value close to what it was originally? No.

But still a good trade overall.

Ben Simmons is not better than Allen. It’s like posters have never watched him play. Nets fans are in for a rude awakening (if he even plays at all, from my area truth is he’s done with basketball dude has always been an airhead with little upstairs).

You think that’s bad, look at what he says in my sig.

[TheLand13]

Let's make something clear here. The Nets bamboozled themselves. They have no one to blame but themselves for buying into the super team hype and trading away key assets to make it happen. Now they are just a Durant and Irving walking away from being irrelevant again, and while I don't necessarily see Irving leaving given his love for the franchise, I can absolutely see Durant leaving if there are clear signs that this isn't working out. And before people claim "well they still have Irving", I'd like to introduce you to the past where Irving tried being the leader and explain how that worked out. Spoiler warning: it didn't.

People can say anything they want about Harden before the trade, with "he was a former MVP candidate" being my favorite. But here are the facts: Brooklyn had Irving and Durant. There is nothing you can do to convince me that the thing they needed most was more offense. That's idiotic. Forget Levert for a moment. Allen is looking like he's going to be a top 5 center in the league for years to come. You cannot justify giving up something like that, especially when it was already clear before he got traded that the potential was there. And now it's being shown before our very eyes. And what is he now? A walking double double on insane efficiency, and one of the best defensive centers in the league. And, by the way, an extremely smart player. It's hard to take advantage of his weaknesses because he does a very good job of preventing them from being exploited.

Actually, I take back what I said. Cleveland bamboozled the Nets. They now have both Allen and Levert and could potentially have the latter long term. I'm not saying Cleveland will win a title in the next few years, but the chances of them being more relevant and title contenders in the long term are far greater than Brooklyn's at this point. And we have only them to thank for that. So again, thank you Brooklyn, for continuing to prove after the disastrous trade with the Celtics that you are not capable of learning your lesson. Now Cleveland gets to be the one to benefit from it instead of them.

Maybe that's Brooklyn's calling. Building up an actual team and then throwing it all away to help others rebuild quickly. That's the only thing they've proven themselves to be capable of doing at this point, and hell they're pretty good at it.

I mean the Nets went from being a good team to easily the best team in the league after the Harden trade. This is revisionist history to act like the trade wasn't worth it at the time. They got injured and that's why they lost...when healthy, they dismantled every good team they came across, proving they were on another level. They were destroying the Bucks with just two of their big 3.

LOL, we don't have to be dishonest about what actually happened to try and sell a narrative.

I’m not being dishonest at all. I said they didn’t need more offense. There is nothing you can say to convince me otherwise. And the trade wasn’t worth it at the time and it’s even more obvious now it wasn’t. Yeah, injuries cost them the series. It’s one of the main reasons why I didn’t like the trade at the time (although I expected it to happen to Durant and Irving. Don’t expect it to happen to harden). They went from being a somewhat balanced team to a completely one dimensional team, with nothing to make up for the injuries to any of their star players if that happened. Again, this goes back to my super team narrative comment. It’s incredibly flawed and risky. The moment someone goes down with injury, you are screwed.

And I, unlike some people apparently, saw a lot of potential in Allen before he got traded. I have no way to prove that to you, so if you don’t believe me, I don’t blame you. But at the time, I thought it was a terrible trade for Brooklyn, and the better Allen becomes, the worse they look for it.