The Sixers Look Scary

[HardenandWilt]

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[MotownMadness]

Wait a second. All of the "experts" told me that this wouldn't work, because Harden like to work the pick and roll, and Embiid isn't a pick and roll guy...and we KNOW that Embiid can't adjust his game to run the pick and roll...

Right?

Who said that?

That was a pretty widely discussed aspect of the deal, and one of the cautionary points that observers brought up - that Embiid isn't a rim-runner like a Capela. This is from Zach Kram at The Ringer after the deal:

"On offense, Harden still dominates the ball about as much as ever, leading the league once again in possession time. He is an elite isolation scorer and a prolific pick-and-roll creator—easily the best with whom Embiid has ever partnered. The 76ers big man is the league’s premiere post-up threat, but he has never set all that many screens for a center; over the past three seasons, his 32.7 picks per 100 possessions rank just 73rd out of 116 players with at least 1,000 picks, per Second Spectrum."

Here is Jarid Dubin at FiveThirtyEight:

"It’s not necessarily a perfect fit. Harden has been at his best with a rim-rolling pick-and-roll partner who provides vertical spacing so he can do damage off the drive, step into space to isolate or fling the ball to shooters dotting the perimeter. The Sixers have rarely run pick and rolls in the last half-decade, though that is at least in part because of Simmons’s deficiencies as a halfcourt ball-handler."

Kurt Helin at NBC Sports:

"Does James Harden fit well with Joel Embiid? It may not be as smooth and natural as people expect. Harden has always preferred rim-running bigs he could lob to, but who also vacated the space and let him work. Embiid is not a screen-and-roll guy. Embiid wants the ball on the block, or 15 feet out so he can face up, but that leaves Harden off the ball, where he tends to lose focus and start coasting through games."

Sam Quinn at CBS Sports:

"Morey helped Harden develop that playing style when the two were building a contender in Houston. In theory, he should fit more cleanly with Embiid than Simmons did considering his stellar shooting, but the two will need to adjust to one another on the fly. Embiid is, in some ways, the big-man version of Harden. He is primarily a post-up player, not someone who rolls to the rim as frequently as most of the big men who play with Harden."

There are a ton of others. This was a pretty broadly voiced critique of the trade - that Harden works best with rim-running bigs - not a post-up and pick-and-pop guy like Embiid.

You didn't see this? Hell, even Charles Barkley (on Inside the NBA) said that there were going to be issues, because Harden likes rim-running bigs. Of course Charles is a clown, so there 's that...

No i didn't see any of it cause i dont really watch to much of those programs especially cause they dont talk about my team ever.

I do seem to recall the Barkley one though. I was thinking by experts you were taking shots at some specific RealGM posters or something.

[eyeatoma]

The Sixers are really good, but they have a big 2 with some nice role players. They're beatable even at full strength, but it's gonna take a great team to do it. I'd like to see how they stack up against some legit competition instead of the Wolves and the Knicks. I think the Bucks, Heat, Bulls, and still maybe the Nets (if they can get everyone back) can give them a run for their money.

Philly has a big 3, have you seen Maxey?

Maxey and Tobias are like what Joe Harris was for the Nets last year...a great offensive role player who excels next to the superstars, but isn't that reliable once you take away the superstars, or in a playoff series when defenses tighten up and these guys are asked to do a little bit more for themselves.

We'll see, but to me, the Sixers are a two-headed monster with a strong supporting cast. Title contender for sure, but not clearly a level above the other title contenders around the league until proven otherwise (like if they start smashing everyone else and not just the bad teams, then I'm convinced).

Clearly you haven't watched Maxey. Maxey is a budding star, who is going to average between 18-20 ppg the rest of the way. Harden has opened up the game for Maxey and has taken away the playmaking responsibility for him. He is a lightning quick guard whose sole job is to attack right now. Take a look at what Maxey has averaged in the last 6 games. Take a look at his season average, and look at what he is averaging with Harden in the lineup. Yes by reputation the Sixers are a 2 headed monster, but Maxey has had a breakout this year, and is a legitimate threat for 20 on any given night.

[Karate Diop]

Not sure there's ever been such a whistle dependent team... Playoffs are going to be a huge question mark, we've seen both Embiid and Harden consistently go ghost when their team needs them the most and the ticky tack whistles aren't coming every which way, is this the year they rise to the occasion? Or does having two extremely whistle dependent players end up compounding the issue?

With Doc as coach I'd lean towards the latter rather than the former...

[Wolfgang630]

The Warriors got the Splash Bros and the Sixers have the Free Throw Bros

[-HB-]

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Knicks and the Timberpups? Scary

[JujitsuFlip]

I love that Maxey gets to focus on what he does best now: scoring. His 3pt shooting (an even 40% after today) has been such a welcomed surprise, and his energy on the floor is contagious. It's hard not to love the kid

https://youtu.be/A544TjG2fEw

I remember watching Maxey bury this absolutely deep dagger (52 second mark of video) in his college debut and knew he was gonna be a scoring machine.

[GeorgeMarcus]

Not sure there's ever been such a whistle dependent team... Playoffs are going to be a huge question mark, we've seen both Embiid and Harden consistently go ghost when their team needs them the most and the ticky tack whistles aren't coming every which way, is this the year they rise to the occasion? Or does having two extremely whistle dependent players end up compounding the issue?

With Doc as coach I'd lean towards the latter rather than the former...

The year the Raps won on the Kawhi buzzer beater, I preached about how impactful Embiid was due to his defensive impact/offensive gravity despite sub standard individual scoring. The numbers were staggering but people who value box data over +/- data were skeptical. Which, even though I disagree, is at least consistent with a larger philosophy on how they evaluate the game.

The next 2 years Embiid averaged 28.6ppg and 11rpg on 62.2 TS%. Those numbers are elite on their own and even more impressive when you consider he constantly drew double and triple teams. Even if you combine all playoff games throughout his career, the numbers are pretty much on par with his regular season production.

So, I guess what I'm saying is, the "playoff Embiid" narrative you speak of isn't actually a thing

[Jables]

I cannot wait until the playoffs, the meltdowns for certain teams are going to be legendary, one way or another. Not even saying the Sixers won't do well, though I've always been a Harden doubter rather than an Embiid one.

[kuclas]

Philly has a big 3, have you seen Maxey?

Maxey and Tobias are like what Joe Harris was for the Nets last year...a great offensive role player who excels next to the superstars, but isn't that reliable once you take away the superstars, or in a playoff series when defenses tighten up and these guys are asked to do a little bit more for themselves.

We'll see, but to me, the Sixers are a two-headed monster with a strong supporting cast. Title contender for sure, but not clearly a level above the other title contenders around the league until proven otherwise (like if they start smashing everyone else and not just the bad teams, then I'm convinced).

Clearly you haven't watched Maxey. Maxey is a budding star, who is going to average between 18-20 ppg the rest of the way. Harden has opened up the game for Maxey and has taken away the playmaking responsibility for him. He is a lightning quick guard whose sole job is to attack right now. Take a look at what Maxey has averaged in the last 6 games. Take a look at his season average, and look at what he is averaging with Harden in the lineup. Yes by reputation the Sixers are a 2 headed monster, but Maxey has had a breakout this year, and is a legitimate threat for 20 on any given night.

Yes! Maxey was a 5 star recruit. Small combo guard with shaky outside shot. But what made him a 5 star recruit for Kentucky was his relentless attack at the rim with his speed. Plus he’s always had that floater like trae young (though not perfected like trae obviously). But it’s a very good floater from 10 feet out.

Now he’s worked on his outside game.

He’s extremely dangerous with harden now playing point guard and Maxey gets to roam.

Basically sixers have 3 guys who can get their shot off anytime in half court now. Embiid harden and Maxey. Harris was always unreliable as second option half court dribbling too much.

Maxey isn’t perfect. But he’s got potential to be a borderline top 30 nba player. Nothing to sneeze at. And darn good. Just turned 21 a couple of months ago.

Thank you Chris Paul and especially Mike Muscala game winning shot with OKC 2 years ago that gave the sixers back the 20th overall pick for 2020 (from
Markelle Fultz magic trade)

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2020/08/13/thunders-mike-muscala-hits-game-winner-costs-thunder-their-first-round-pick/amp/

So basically the sixers traded Markelle fultz and got Tyrese Maxey. As good as a pivot from the diaster of fultz.

[SelfishPlayer]

All of the people saying that Embiid and Harden couldn't run the pick & roll just got exposed for not knowing basketball.

[BallerTalk]

Wait a second. All of the "experts" told me that this wouldn't work, because Harden like to work the pick and roll, and Embiid isn't a pick and roll guy...and we KNOW that Embiid can't adjust his game to run the pick and roll...

Right?

Who said that?

....

Kurt Helin at NBC Sports:

"Does James Harden fit well with Joel Embiid? It may not be as smooth and natural as people expect. Harden has always preferred rim-running bigs he could lob to, but who also vacated the space and let him work. Embiid is not a screen-and-roll guy. Embiid wants the ball on the block, or 15 feet out so he can face up, but that leaves Harden off the ball, where he tends to lose focus and start coasting through games."
....

NEVER trust a word coming from that hack Helin, especially when it comes to Harden.

[MotownMadness]

Maxey and Tobias are like what Joe Harris was for the Nets last year...a great offensive role player who excels next to the superstars, but isn't that reliable once you take away the superstars, or in a playoff series when defenses tighten up and these guys are asked to do a little bit more for themselves.

We'll see, but to me, the Sixers are a two-headed monster with a strong supporting cast. Title contender for sure, but not clearly a level above the other title contenders around the league until proven otherwise (like if they start smashing everyone else and not just the bad teams, then I'm convinced).

Clearly you haven't watched Maxey. Maxey is a budding star, who is going to average between 18-20 ppg the rest of the way. Harden has opened up the game for Maxey and has taken away the playmaking responsibility for him. He is a lightning quick guard whose sole job is to attack right now. Take a look at what Maxey has averaged in the last 6 games. Take a look at his season average, and look at what he is averaging with Harden in the lineup. Yes by reputation the Sixers are a 2 headed monster, but Maxey has had a breakout this year, and is a legitimate threat for 20 on any given night.

Yes! Maxey was a 5 star recruit. Small combo guard with shaky outside shot. But what made him a 5 star recruit for Kentucky was his relentless attack at the rim with his speed. Plus he’s always had that floater like trae young (though not perfected like trae obviously). But it’s a very good floater from 10 feet out.

Now he’s worked on his outside game.

He’s extremely dangerous with harden now playing point guard and Maxey gets to roam.

Basically sixers have 3 guys who can get their shot off anytime in half court now. Embiid harden and Maxey. Harris was always unreliable as second option half court dribbling too much.

Maxey isn’t perfect. But he’s got potential to be a borderline top 30 nba player. Nothing to sneeze at. And darn good. Just turned 21 a couple of months ago.

Thank you Chris Paul and especially Mike Muscala game winning shot with OKC 2 years ago that gave the sixers back the 20th overall pick for 2020 (from
Markelle Fultz magic trade)

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2020/08/13/thunders-mike-muscala-hits-game-winner-costs-thunder-their-first-round-pick/amp/

So basically the sixers traded Markelle fultz and got Tyrese Maxey. As good as a pivot from the diaster of fultz.

I was not high on Maxey at all coming out of college. Definitely missed on that one.

[Misteclipse]

Not sure there's ever been such a whistle dependent team... Playoffs are going to be a huge question mark, we've seen both Embiid and Harden consistently go ghost when their team needs them the most and the ticky tack whistles aren't coming every which way, is this the year they rise to the occasion? Or does having two extremely whistle dependent players end up compounding the issue?

With Doc as coach I'd lean towards the latter rather than the former...

Harden FTA regular season - 8.7
Harden FTA playoffs - 7.9
Embiid FTA regular season - 9.4
Embiid FTA playoffs - 9.4

No idea where this narrative comes from that refs are somehow swallowing their whistles in the playoffs for Harden and Embiid but it's certainly not based in reality. And if by go ghost you mean one series in Embiid's entire career then sure, you got it man.

Cope in whatever fashion you need to, but I don't think there's any reality in which anyone can reliably stop Harden-Embiid PnRs. Then throw in Maxey and Tobias and now even Thybulle finally has a guy finding him on his cuts and this offense just flows.

Our problems definitely won't ever be on offense.

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[Hello Brooklyn]

The Warriors got the Splash Bros and the Sixers have the Free Throw Bros

FT bros won't get these calls in the playoffs.

There is a reason Harden always melts down in the 4th Q of big games.

They better hope Embiid is prepared to be a closer. He choked just like Simmons did in that Hawks series.

[Black Mage]

The Harden the Nets had their last 10 games together is not the Harden you saw last night.

When he wants out he quits on his team.

Sure but if they kept him past the trade deadline he would have locked back in.

That's a serious risk for someone who's about to become an unrestricted free agent. Brooklyn did great given the circumstances.

Let's circle back to this in a few weeks once everyone's back in the lineup. People will be shocked how good Simmons is as the 3rd option.

We saw that when SIxers had Jimmy. He disappeared in the 4th then just as he did last year.

[Tor_Raps]

Sure but if they kept him past the trade deadline he would have locked back in.

That's a serious risk for someone who's about to become an unrestricted free agent. Brooklyn did great given the circumstances.

Let's circle back to this in a few weeks once everyone's back in the lineup. People will be shocked how good Simmons is as the 3rd option.

We saw that when SIxers had Jimmy. He disappeared in the 4th then just as he did last year.

Agreed but that 2019 Sixers team was the 3rd best team that year after a healthy Warriors/Raptors imo. If they had kept Jimmy around, they probably would have won a title by now.

Hopefully we'll get to see them all in action in a few weeks. I consider Philly and Brooklyn the 2 best teams in the NBA after the trade if healthy. If these 2 meet in the playoffs, it might be the most fun series in a very long time.

[JAYZGOAT]

The Warriors got the Splash Bros and the Sixers have the Free Throw Bros

FT bros won't get these calls in the playoffs.

There is a reason Harden always melts down in the 4th Q of big games.

They better hope Embiid is prepared to be a closer. He choked just like Simmons did in that Hawks series.

It's hard for a big man to operate when your PG can't stretch the floor because it's easy to pack the paint and slow him down. The spacing now is night and day. I doubt embiid will have any trouble. I also don't buy that they won't call the fouls. A foul is a foul.

[eyeatoma]

The Warriors got the Splash Bros and the Sixers have the Free Throw Bros

FT bros won't get these calls in the playoffs.

There is a reason Harden always melts down in the 4th Q of big games.

They better hope Embiid is prepared to be a closer. He choked just like Simmons did in that Hawks series.

Read the post right before you lol.

[Hello Brooklyn]

The Warriors got the Splash Bros and the Sixers have the Free Throw Bros

FT bros won't get these calls in the playoffs.

There is a reason Harden always melts down in the 4th Q of big games.

They better hope Embiid is prepared to be a closer. He choked just like Simmons did in that Hawks series.

It's hard for a big man to operate when your PG can't stretch the floor because it's easy to pack the paint and slow him down. The spacing now is night and day. I doubt embiid will have any trouble. I also don't buy that they won't call the fouls. A foul is a foul.

True but thats a lame excuse to not beat a so so Hawks team. Embiid could have found ways to score in the clutch.

Fouls are not called the same way in the playoffs. Thats always been the case.