Brooklyn got bamboozled by James Harden

[Clay Davis]

Kidding aside, I was flabbergasted by all of the "experts" saying the Nets won this trade. Huh? You obviously have to take in account what they gave up 12 months ago to get Harden. They literally gave up an All Star in Jarrett Allen.

The only thing I actually liked from the Nets perspective was getting Seth Curry in the deal. He's a really good piece.

They could have had a lineup of

C - Allen
PF - Durant
SF - Harris
SG - LeVert
PG - Irving

These GM's need to stop gutting their teams for big names. It's just not working out. Bubble Lakers is an outlier but now we're seeing how bad of an idea that's turned out to be.

Simmons hasn't played yet. We need to see how he plays and how the Nets look with everyone healthy before we can gauge anything substantial. It entirely possible that Simmons + Curry synergises better with Kyrie and KD than Harden offensively.

What?

What I mean is that having a dedicated floor spacer and someone whose focus is on distributing while moving downhill could be better than having another iso scorer, even if they're very capable from outside. I think that the absence of Harden allows Irving and Durant to play more naturally at their respective combo-guard and wing positions. Simmons tends to play just fine with a lot of perimeter scorers. He'll also have some gravity in the sense that you really have to pay attention to him in the paint. He's pretty hopeless as a floor-spacer when you're trying to fit him along with someone else who scores in the paint but he'll provide decent gravity.

Curry is pretty good for a shooter. He's pretty good at running around off of screens or to bail out a collapsing position.

[Dr Aki]

Watch on YouTube

[Catchall]

Let's see what Ben Simmons looks like playing with KD, Kyrie and other good shooters. An argument can be made that Simmons and Embiid weren't a good fit together. However, he should fit better with his new team. It might work.

[Hello Brooklyn]

There is nothing you can say to convince me otherwise..

His argument in a nutshell.

[Ballerhogger]

Hes quit on every team hes been on , the nets knew the risk going in. They have more complete team then they did with harden

[DarkXaero]

I can't believe that Nets fans are discounting the pick swaps and don't think it's a big deal. I mean, a pick swap trade literally set your franchise back so far that you're not just now starting to climb out of it more than a half decade later. I don't think it's outlandish to assume that the Rockets could be better than the Nets for at least a couple of those picks. All for what amounts to Ben Simmons?

Pick swaps can be really valuable but they can also be completely worthless. Unless Rockets end up being better than the Nets in those years (currently there's no indication of that being the trajectory), those pick swaps will end up being worthless. Nets have Kevin Durant and Ben Simmons locked up for the next few years, so unless major injuries happen, this team will be a playoff team every year.

[DarkXaero]

Hes quit on every team hes been on , the nets knew the risk going in. They have more complete team then they did with harden

Nah, that's false, Nets with Harden had one of the best collections of talent in league history. The team simply had to stay healthy, which they sadly couldn't.

[rocketsfan100]

Eh... Let's let Simmons take the court before we jump to conclusions.

The way things look right now the Sixers have the best player, the Nets still significantly improved from LeVert and JAFRO and the Cavaliers got better as well.

If you want to laugh at anyone laugh at the Rockets

Their swaps are actually even less likely to convey with the Nets picking up Simmons...

Now or tomorrow when Simmons returns harden is was and will always be better then Simmons

[DarkXaero]

7 first round picks is just BS.

You can't count the pick swaps unless they convey. We don't know if they will. The first one already did not.

One first round pick went for a year of Harden where he played like an MVP.

The next two are cancelled out by the Sixers picks.

So its essentially:

Levert
Allen
3 pick swaps

FOR

Simmons
Curry
Drummond

On what planet is that not worth it?

Curry is just better than Levert. Simmons is far better than Allen even with his limitations.

And with a younger Simmons it might be less likely that those swaps convey.

Is the value close to what it was originally? No.

But still a good trade overall.

Ben Simmons is not better than Allen. It’s like posters have never watched him play. Nets fans are in for a rude awakening (if he even plays at all, from my area truth is he’s done with basketball dude has always been an airhead with little upstairs).

I've been a Ben Simmons hater for a very long time, long before Sixers fans turned on him. But this is simply not true, Jarrett Allen even now is not a better player than Simmons. Simmons might be easier to exploit with hack a shaq in playoffs, but aside from that he's an easily superior player to Allen.

[Ballerhogger]

Hes quit on every team hes been on , the nets knew the risk going in. They have more complete team then they did with harden

Nah, that's false, Nets with Harden had one of the best collections of talent in league history. The team simply had to stay healthy, which they sadly couldn't.

defensively they are much better team

[MemphisX]

Kidding aside, I was flabbergasted by all of the "experts" saying the Nets won this trade. Huh? You obviously have to take in account what they gave up 12 months ago to get Harden. They literally gave up an All Star in Jarrett Allen.

The only thing I actually liked from the Nets perspective was getting Seth Curry in the deal. He's a really good piece.

They could have had a lineup of

C - Allen
PF - Durant
SF - Harris
SG - LeVert
PG - Irving

These GM's need to stop gutting their teams for big names. It's just not working out. Bubble Lakers is an outlier but now we're seeing how bad of an idea that's turned out to be.

C - Drummond
PF - Durant
SF - Harris
SG - Irving
PG - Simmons

with Curry is better

[hippesthippo]

Maybe, but what if Simmons comes out and nails 15 threes in his Nets debut

I stand a better chance of nailing J Lo, Billie Ellish, Lana Del Ray, and Ariana Grande next weekend than Simmons has of making 15 three's in his debut.

You got the full spectrum there. I like it.

If Ben Simmons hit 13 3's in his debut, I'll be laughing uncontrollably.

[TheLand13]

7 first round picks is just BS.

You can't count the pick swaps unless they convey. We don't know if they will. The first one already did not.

One first round pick went for a year of Harden where he played like an MVP.

The next two are cancelled out by the Sixers picks.

So its essentially:

Levert
Allen
3 pick swaps

FOR

Simmons
Curry
Drummond

On what planet is that not worth it?

Curry is just better than Levert. Simmons is far better than Allen even with his limitations.

And with a younger Simmons it might be less likely that those swaps convey.

Is the value close to what it was originally? No.

But still a good trade overall.

Ben Simmons is not better than Allen. It’s like posters have never watched him play. Nets fans are in for a rude awakening (if he even plays at all, from my area truth is he’s done with basketball dude has always been an airhead with little upstairs).

I've been a Ben Simmons hater for a very long time, long before Sixers fans turned on him. But this is simply not true, Jarrett Allen even now is not a better player than Simmons. Simmons might be easier to exploit with hack a shaq in playoffs, but aside from that he's an easily superior player to Allen.

It’s very close between the two. The thing here though is that Allen has far more value. He’s on a lighter contract which allows more flexibility for his team and being a rim protecting big who can guard out at the perimeter. Bigs like that are extremely valuable. He is limited offensively but has a high basketball IQ so it hasn’t really hurt him production wise.

I do agree that overall, Simmons is the better player. But I would much rather have Allen right now.

[kuclas]

Let's make something clear here. The Nets bamboozled themselves. They have no one to blame but themselves for buying into the super team hype and trading away key assets to make it happen. Now they are just a Durant and Irving walking away from being irrelevant again, and while I don't necessarily see Irving leaving given his love for the franchise, I can absolutely see Durant leaving if there are clear signs that this isn't working out. And before people claim "well they still have Irving", I'd like to introduce you to the past where Irving tried being the leader and explain how that worked out. Spoiler warning: it didn't.

People can say anything they want about Harden before the trade, with "he was a former MVP candidate" being my favorite. But here are the facts: Brooklyn had Irving and Durant. There is nothing you can do to convince me that the thing they needed most was more offense. That's idiotic. Forget Levert for a moment. Allen is looking like he's going to be a top 5 center in the league for years to come. You cannot justify giving up something like that, especially when it was already clear before he got traded that the potential was there. And now it's being shown before our very eyes. And what is he now? A walking double double on insane efficiency, and one of the best defensive centers in the league. And, by the way, an extremely smart player. It's hard to take advantage of his weaknesses because he does a very good job of preventing them from being exploited.

Actually, I take back what I said. Cleveland bamboozled the Nets. They now have both Allen and Levert and could potentially have the latter long term. I'm not saying Cleveland will win a title in the next few years, but the chances of them being more relevant and title contenders in the long term are far greater than Brooklyn's at this point. And we have only them to thank for that. So again, thank you Brooklyn, for continuing to prove after the disastrous trade with the Celtics that you are not capable of learning your lesson. Now Cleveland gets to be the one to benefit from it instead of them.

Maybe that's Brooklyn's calling. Building up an actual team and then throwing it all away to help others rebuild quickly. That's the only thing they've proven themselves to be capable of doing at this point, and hell they're pretty good at it.

I’m not sold on Allen. Really. He’s got his limitations. He doesn’t shoot the ball well. He’s below average free throw shooter. A little better this season though. I’m
Not saying he’s bad. But Allen is in the Clint capela type of center level. Especially with the faster pace of the nba game.

Nets knew Allen would want at least 4/100 million and didn’t want to pay it. Levert is a chucker. Highly inefficient and redundant with harden there. So he wasn’t needed.

When you have a chance for James harden. You go for the trade. We all know a healthy nets team wins the nba title last season. Even a healthy Irving and KD would
Have been enough to get them pass the bucks.

[ibraheim718]

Kidding aside, I was flabbergasted by all of the "experts" saying the Nets won this trade. Huh? You obviously have to take in account what they gave up 12 months ago to get Harden. They literally gave up an All Star in Jarrett Allen.

The only thing I actually liked from the Nets perspective was getting Seth Curry in the deal. He's a really good piece.

They could have had a lineup of

C - Allen
PF - Durant
SF - Harris
SG - LeVert
PG - Irving

These GM's need to stop gutting their teams for big names. It's just not working out. Bubble Lakers is an outlier but now we're seeing how bad of an idea that's turned out to be.

As opposed to?

C-Drummond
PF-Durant
SF-Harris
SG-Curry
PG- Irving

I'm not really getting the point youre trying to make.

Levert would not fit well at all. Hes a poor shooter, bad defender, constantly injured and his iso play would not work with KD/Kyrie.

Curry is far better suited to play with them as an elite shooter.

And Simmons is just far better than Allen. Hes can guard 1-5, is a good passer, and can run the break.

This avoids the fact that Harden is one of the greatest players in NBA history. And if you have a chance to trade for him you do it.

Were supposed to not do it because of Jarrett Allen? Comon now.

Are you saying Simmons isn't starting? If so you're out your damn mind.

[Optms]

Harden back to MVP form. Swindled the Rockets and now the Nets. lol

[Hello Brooklyn]

It’s very close between the two. The thing here though is that Allen has far more value. He’s on a lighter contract which allows more flexibility for his team and being a rim protecting big who can guard out at the perimeter. Bigs like that are extremely valuable. He is limited offensively but has a high basketball IQ so it hasn’t really hurt him production wise.

I do agree that overall, Simmons is the better player. But I would much rather have Allen right now.

An All NBA, 2 time Defensive All Team 3 time All Star compared to a one time replacement replacement All Star

Its close?

Simmons is arguably the best defensive player in the NBA. Allen is not even close to that versatile.

And then you accuse me of being a homer.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Kidding aside, I was flabbergasted by all of the "experts" saying the Nets won this trade. Huh? You obviously have to take in account what they gave up 12 months ago to get Harden. They literally gave up an All Star in Jarrett Allen.

The only thing I actually liked from the Nets perspective was getting Seth Curry in the deal. He's a really good piece.

They could have had a lineup of

C - Allen
PF - Durant
SF - Harris
SG - LeVert
PG - Irving

These GM's need to stop gutting their teams for big names. It's just not working out. Bubble Lakers is an outlier but now we're seeing how bad of an idea that's turned out to be.

As opposed to?

C-Drummond
PF-Durant
SF-Harris
SG-Curry
PG- Irving

I'm not really getting the point youre trying to make.

Levert would not fit well at all. Hes a poor shooter, bad defender, constantly injured and his iso play would not work with KD/Kyrie.

Curry is far better suited to play with them as an elite shooter.

And Simmons is just far better than Allen. Hes can guard 1-5, is a good passer, and can run the break.

This avoids the fact that Harden is one of the greatest players in NBA history. And if you have a chance to trade for him you do it.

Were supposed to not do it because of Jarrett Allen? Comon now.

Are you saying Simmons isn't starting? If so you're out your damn mind.

Brain fart on my part

C-Drummond
PF-Durant
SF-Simmons
SG-Harris
PG- Kyrie

[TheLand13]

Let's make something clear here. The Nets bamboozled themselves. They have no one to blame but themselves for buying into the super team hype and trading away key assets to make it happen. Now they are just a Durant and Irving walking away from being irrelevant again, and while I don't necessarily see Irving leaving given his love for the franchise, I can absolutely see Durant leaving if there are clear signs that this isn't working out. And before people claim "well they still have Irving", I'd like to introduce you to the past where Irving tried being the leader and explain how that worked out. Spoiler warning: it didn't.

People can say anything they want about Harden before the trade, with "he was a former MVP candidate" being my favorite. But here are the facts: Brooklyn had Irving and Durant. There is nothing you can do to convince me that the thing they needed most was more offense. That's idiotic. Forget Levert for a moment. Allen is looking like he's going to be a top 5 center in the league for years to come. You cannot justify giving up something like that, especially when it was already clear before he got traded that the potential was there. And now it's being shown before our very eyes. And what is he now? A walking double double on insane efficiency, and one of the best defensive centers in the league. And, by the way, an extremely smart player. It's hard to take advantage of his weaknesses because he does a very good job of preventing them from being exploited.

Actually, I take back what I said. Cleveland bamboozled the Nets. They now have both Allen and Levert and could potentially have the latter long term. I'm not saying Cleveland will win a title in the next few years, but the chances of them being more relevant and title contenders in the long term are far greater than Brooklyn's at this point. And we have only them to thank for that. So again, thank you Brooklyn, for continuing to prove after the disastrous trade with the Celtics that you are not capable of learning your lesson. Now Cleveland gets to be the one to benefit from it instead of them.

Maybe that's Brooklyn's calling. Building up an actual team and then throwing it all away to help others rebuild quickly. That's the only thing they've proven themselves to be capable of doing at this point, and hell they're pretty good at it.

I’m not sold on Allen. Really. He’s got his limitations. He doesn’t shoot the ball well. He’s below average free throw shooter. A little better this season though. I’m
Not saying he’s bad. But Allen is in the Clint capela type of center level. Especially with the faster pace of the nba game.

Nets knew Allen would want at least 4/100 million and didn’t want to pay it. Levert is a chucker. Highly inefficient and redundant with harden there. So he wasn’t needed.

When you have a chance for James harden. You go for the trade. We all know a healthy nets team wins the nba title last season. Even a healthy Irving and KD would
Have been enough to get them pass the bucks.

Allen is better than Capela at this point. He’s limited offensively, but I like I said before, his high IQ makes him harder to defend at that end. He’s also a much better defender. I do agree Levert wasn’t needed. But a player like Allen is a necessity these days with just his defense alone. A center who is mobile enough to defend at the perimeter while protecting the rim at an elite rate is a very rare and sought after type of talent.

Again, the question needs to be asked: why was James Harden needed on a team with Irving and Durant? No one has been able to answer this apart from “he’s James Harden” and “he’s a former MVP candidate”. Those are terrible answers and aren’t justifiable for making a trade like this. Did the Nets become an offensive juggernaut? Yes, but that’s not the direction they needed to go and quite frankly, if they had focused on building up their defense instead, they would be in a much better position.

[TheLand13]

It’s very close between the two. The thing here though is that Allen has far more value. He’s on a lighter contract which allows more flexibility for his team and being a rim protecting big who can guard out at the perimeter. Bigs like that are extremely valuable. He is limited offensively but has a high basketball IQ so it hasn’t really hurt him production wise.

I do agree that overall, Simmons is the better player. But I would much rather have Allen right now.

An All NBA, 2 time Defensive All Team 3 time All Star compared to a one time replacement replacement All Star

Its close?

Simmons is arguably the best defensive player in the NBA. Allen is not even close to that versatile.

And then you accuse me of being a homer.

You think Joe Harris is equal to Allen in value.

You know literally nothing about what kind of player Allen is and why he’s so valuable.

I’ll tell you what though. If you’re so confident, why don’t you make a thread asking the forum who is better?