Michael Jordan got proctected more than LeBron from NBA

[LivingLegend]

Players today are more protected in general. There are more touch fouls called today and it takes a lot less today to qualify for a flagrant foul than what it took in Jordan's day.

Michael Jordan - 8.2 FTA per game
LeBron James - 7.8 FTA per game

Jordan played in a 'tougher era' and was far more of a finesse player than LeBron who spent the majority of his career as a downhill attacking physical tank.....and MJ still averaged more free throws per game predominantly as a mid range jump shooter.

So even in a 'weak and soft' era with a much more physical playstyle---LeBron still shoots less FTs per game than MJ.

I know a lot of people hate LeBron, but he has been officiated much differently than Jordan.

Spare me with the 'MJ had it so much harder' BS. Watching him since 2003, LeBron in those 2005-2015 years should have easily shot 20 FTs a game if the refs just called the fouls, but because of his size/strength the refs swallowed their whistles. It was so bad at certain points both the Lakers and Cavs front offices had to address the league office about it on multiple occasions.

[VanWest82]

It's not a character flaw to be extroverted. The main thing is to just be yourself. Sometimes it looks like Lebron is trying to be something he's not and it comes across as insincere. I don't think his charitable work is in any way insincere or about spotlight though. I try not to be cynical about that stuff.

I think that's true of most athletes and celebrities to some degree. Yes even MJ. Its part of being aware of self image. Some people have had it out for LeBron since before he even got into the league though because they resented him being coined the Chosen One on the cover of SI at 16 and having many of his hs games shown on espn. Which some would say that's somehow just him trying to get in the spotlight like any other kid would turn it down or something.

I don't remember too much criticism of Lebron early on. I thought he handled the initial celebrity well. It's been the way he's handled certain things starting with the decision that I've taken issue with. I don't think people change but the backlash he endured teased out some things, some insecurity and distrust of authority that had probably been bubbling below the surface since his childhood.

MJ was always himself. There was never any pretense. He was playful, confident, charming, but a bully. The idea that he was somehow hiding his true self was belied by his demeanor on the court every night.

[LivingLegend]

It's not a character flaw to be extroverted. The main thing is to just be yourself. Sometimes it looks like Lebron is trying to be something he's not and it comes across as insincere. I don't think his charitable work is in any way insincere or about spotlight though. I try not to be cynical about that stuff.

I think that's true of most athletes and celebrities to some degree. Yes even MJ. Its part of being aware of self image. Some people have had it out for LeBron since before he even got into the league though because they resented him being coined the Chosen One on the cover of SI at 16 and having many of his hs games shown on espn. Which some would say that's somehow just him trying to get in the spotlight like any other kid would turn it down or something.

I don't remember too much criticism of Lebron early on. I thought he handled the initial celebrity well. It's been the way he's handled certain things starting with the decision that I've taken issue with. I don't think people change but the backlash he endured teased out some things, some insecurity and distrust of authority that had probably been bubbling below the surface since his childhood.

MJ was always himself. There was never any pretense. He was playful, confident, charming, but a bully. The idea that he was somehow hiding his true self was belied by his demeanor on the court every night.

I think 1 word can summarize why there are the personality differences you pointed out: expectations.

LeBron came into the league in 2003 with the weight of the world on his shoulders, not just for the local organization but to carry the entire league with cameras in his face since 2001. There was always a bar to be measured against. Is he Jordan or is he Magic? Greatness was expected of him. I would have to believe dealing with that every single year begins to effect your personality and triggers.

Jordan on the other hand, wasnt even the #1 pick in his own draft. He was a great prospect, but there were no expectations. He was playing with house money (gambling reference, nailed it) and wherever his career takes him it would take him and enjoy the ride. I would have to believe its much easier to have a more relaxed and easy going personality when the 24/7 nonstop pressure doesnt exist.

[BostonCouchGM]

When Bird and Magic aged, the league invested heavily into MJ. People wanted to see him do his thing without getting mugged so he got more calls. That said, he wasn’t protected, they just started calling fouls they mostly should have been calling all along

[Cavsfansince84]

I don't remember too much criticism of Lebron early on. I thought he handled the initial celebrity well. It's been the way he's handled certain things starting with the decision that I've taken issue with. I don't think people change but the backlash he endured teased out some things, some insecurity and distrust of authority that had probably been bubbling below the surface since his childhood.

MJ was always himself. There was never any pretense. He was playful, confident, charming, but a bully. The idea that he was somehow hiding his true self was belied by his demeanor on the court every night.

MJ was definitely more fully developed personality wise by the time he became a phenomenon. Again, different circumstances. LeBron being raised by a single mother who was barely there in the projects until he moved in with his aau coach and getting national coverage at 16 while MJ was raised in a traditional family and getting 3 years under Dean Smith at unc before he became a star. So to me the whole comparison isn't apples to apples to begin with. Totally different world in terms of media coverage as well and even so MJ still got burnt out from dealing with it. Imagine if MJ had to deal with questions constantly about all the stuff he did in his spare time back then and on tv talk shows. For the most part MJ was only asked to do interviews with his pal Ahmad Rashad who pretty much kissed his *** non stop from 92 on. I always got the feeling we were just seeing a manufactured side of MJ in all his interviews.

[VanWest82]

I think 1 word can summarize why there are the personality differences you pointed out: expectations.

LeBron came into the league in 2003 with the weight of the world on his shoulders, not just for the local organization but to carry the entire league with cameras in his face since 2001. There was always a bar to be measured against. Is he Jordan or is he Magic? Greatness was expected of him. I would have to believe dealing with that every single year begins to effect your personality and triggers.

Jordan on the other hand, wasnt even the #1 pick in his own draft. He was a great prospect, but there were no expectations. He was playing with house money (gambling reference, nailed it) and wherever his career takes him it would take him and enjoy the ride. I would have to believe its much easier to have a more relaxed and easy going personality when the 24/7 nonstop pressure doesnt exist.

Lebron deserves all the credit for handling the initial expectations so well and not falling into the trap that so many child stars do. But I think it's interesting that his bumps in the road came later on.

It's too simplistic to say it's just one thing that differentiates them but if I was to focus on only one thing it'd be family. MJ grew up in a tight family unit with structure and expectations and competition from within. Lebron grew up with little structure or real competition, and his expectations came from outside his circle. It's not an accident that they handled adversity and authority so differently.

[LewisnotMiller]

It caries more weight when someone like Pat Riley says it.

Perhaps it shouldn't. Riley had some mighty physical players he needed able to lay some wood.
Whether he was right or wrong is a fair discussion, but of course he was biased.

[The Rebel]

Didnt the NBA change the travel rule cause Lebrun couldnt learn how not to travel?

That and double dribble rules both in 2009.

[Jables]

Players today are more protected in general. There are more touch fouls called today and it takes a lot less today to qualify for a flagrant foul than what it took in Jordan's day.

Michael Jordan - 8.2 FTA per game
LeBron James - 7.8 FTA per game

Jordan played in a 'tougher era' and was far more of a finesse player than LeBron who spent the majority of his career as a downhill attacking physical tank.....and MJ still averaged more free throws per game predominantly as a mid range jump shooter.

So even in a 'weak and soft' era with a much more physical playstyle---LeBron still shoots less FTs per game than MJ.

I know a lot of people hate LeBron, but he has been officiated much differently than Jordan.

Spare me with the 'MJ had it so much harder' BS. Watching him since 2003, LeBron in those 2005-2015 years should have easily shot 20 FTs a game if the refs just called the fouls, but because of his size/strength the refs swallowed their whistles. It was so bad at certain points both the Lakers and Cavs front offices had to address the league office about it on multiple occasions.

Did you seriously just imply Jordan should naturally get less FT's than LeBron? WTF are you talking about?

[NZB2323]

Players today are more protected in general. There are more touch fouls called today and it takes a lot less today to qualify for a flagrant foul than what it took in Jordan's day.

Michael Jordan - 8.2 FTA per game
LeBron James - 7.8 FTA per game

Jordan played in a 'tougher era' and was far more of a finesse player than LeBron who spent the majority of his career as a downhill attacking physical tank.....and MJ still averaged more free throws per game predominantly as a mid range jump shooter.

So even in a 'weak and soft' era with a much more physical playstyle---LeBron still shoots less FTs per game than MJ.

I know a lot of people hate LeBron, but he has been officiated much differently than Jordan.

Spare me with the 'MJ had it so much harder' BS. Watching him since 2003, LeBron in those 2005-2015 years should have easily shot 20 FTs a game if the refs just called the fouls, but because of his size/strength the refs swallowed their whistles. It was so bad at certain points both the Lakers and Cavs front offices had to address the league office about it on multiple occasions.

I don’t know if I agree that Lebron is more of an attacker. Lebron is averaging almost 8 3 point attempts per game this year and Jordan’s high was 3.6. For careers Lebron averages 4.5 3s a game and Jordan averaged 1.7.

The 2 years Jordan averaged the most free throws were 87 and 88, when he attacked the rim relentlessly.

2006-2010 is when Lebron shot the most free throws per game.

Both Lebron and Jordan attacked the rim relentlessly early in their career, but then later as they developed more of an all around game they didn’t averaged as many free throws.

[LivingLegend]

Players today are more protected in general. There are more touch fouls called today and it takes a lot less today to qualify for a flagrant foul than what it took in Jordan's day.

Michael Jordan - 8.2 FTA per game
LeBron James - 7.8 FTA per game

Jordan played in a 'tougher era' and was far more of a finesse player than LeBron who spent the majority of his career as a downhill attacking physical tank.....and MJ still averaged more free throws per game predominantly as a mid range jump shooter.

So even in a 'weak and soft' era with a much more physical playstyle---LeBron still shoots less FTs per game than MJ.

I know a lot of people hate LeBron, but he has been officiated much differently than Jordan.

Spare me with the 'MJ had it so much harder' BS. Watching him since 2003, LeBron in those 2005-2015 years should have easily shot 20 FTs a game if the refs just called the fouls, but because of his size/strength the refs swallowed their whistles. It was so bad at certain points both the Lakers and Cavs front offices had to address the league office about it on multiple occasions.

I don’t know if I agree that Lebron is more of an attacker. Lebron is averaging almost 8 3 point attempts per game this year and Jordan’s high was 3.6. For careers Lebron averages 4.5 3s a game and Jordan averaged 1.7.

The 2 years Jordan averaged the most free throws were 87 and 88, when he attacked the rim relentlessly.

2006-2010 is when Lebron shot the most free throws per game.

Both Lebron and Jordan attacked the rim relentlessly early in their career, but then later as they developed more of an all around game they didn’t averaged as many free throws.

IDK man. I think a lot of people forget what 2003-2013 LeBron was like. I would venture around 40-50% of his offense was running to the basket with a full head of steam, generating contact and finished through contact against Forwards/Centers. That was his offense. I dont think Jordan was close to the amount of physical player that LeBron was.

LeBron is the all-time leader in And-1s (25 year sample). Hundreds more than guys like Shaq/Malone/Howard.

The dude sought out contact....a lot. And he went to the FT line less times per game on average than MJ did.

[LivingLegend]

Players today are more protected in general. There are more touch fouls called today and it takes a lot less today to qualify for a flagrant foul than what it took in Jordan's day.

Michael Jordan - 8.2 FTA per game
LeBron James - 7.8 FTA per game

Jordan played in a 'tougher era' and was far more of a finesse player than LeBron who spent the majority of his career as a downhill attacking physical tank.....and MJ still averaged more free throws per game predominantly as a mid range jump shooter.

So even in a 'weak and soft' era with a much more physical playstyle---LeBron still shoots less FTs per game than MJ.

I know a lot of people hate LeBron, but he has been officiated much differently than Jordan.

Spare me with the 'MJ had it so much harder' BS. Watching him since 2003, LeBron in those 2005-2015 years should have easily shot 20 FTs a game if the refs just called the fouls, but because of his size/strength the refs swallowed their whistles. It was so bad at certain points both the Lakers and Cavs front offices had to address the league office about it on multiple occasions.

Did you seriously just imply Jordan should naturally get less FT's than LeBron? WTF are you talking about?

Yes. Do I think a guy who predominantly operates jump shooting in the mid range should have less FTs than a guy who runs into forwards/centers at the rim every other possession? Yes, yes I do.

Jumpshooters and guards (typically) should not shoot more FTs than slashers and bigs. I dont see whats so crazy about that. One of those is a significantly more physical style of play than the other---and you would think because its more physical that there would be more foul opportunities.

Especially since LeBron apparently played in a 'weak/soft' era that its incredibly easy to earn whistles. So he should shoot more FTs in a landslide right? Wrong

[NZB2323]

Michael Jordan - 8.2 FTA per game
LeBron James - 7.8 FTA per game

Jordan played in a 'tougher era' and was far more of a finesse player than LeBron who spent the majority of his career as a downhill attacking physical tank.....and MJ still averaged more free throws per game predominantly as a mid range jump shooter.

So even in a 'weak and soft' era with a much more physical playstyle---LeBron still shoots less FTs per game than MJ.

I know a lot of people hate LeBron, but he has been officiated much differently than Jordan.

Spare me with the 'MJ had it so much harder' BS. Watching him since 2003, LeBron in those 2005-2015 years should have easily shot 20 FTs a game if the refs just called the fouls, but because of his size/strength the refs swallowed their whistles. It was so bad at certain points both the Lakers and Cavs front offices had to address the league office about it on multiple occasions.

Did you seriously just imply Jordan should naturally get less FT's than LeBron? WTF are you talking about?

Yes. Do I think a guy who predominantly operates jump shooting in the mid range should have less FTs than a guy who runs into forwards/centers at the rim every other possession? Yes, yes I do.

Jumpshooters and guards (typically) should not shoot more FTs than slashers and bigs. I dont see whats so crazy about that. One of those is a significantly more physical style of play than the other---and you would think because its more physical that there would be more foul opportunities.

Especially since LeBron apparently played in a 'weak/soft' era that its incredibly easy to earn whistles. So he should shoot more FTs in a landslide right? Wrong

You realize that a criticism of Jordan coming into the league was that he was athletic and a great dunker, but he wasn’t a great jump shooter.

From 96-98 Jordan was a midrange expert, but young Michael Jordan was more like Dwayne Wade in 2006, who shot over 16 free throws per game in the finals.

Jordan was so much better at driving than shooting that the Portland Trailblazers told the media before the NBA finals that their strategy was to let Jordan take jump shots and prevent him from driving. It blew up in their face, as Jordan took it as a challenge and made 6 3s in the first half.

The strategy of the Pistons/Knicks was to foul Jordan anytime he took a shot in the paint. Instead of focusing on his jump shooting Jordan worked on his strength and conditioning so he could absorb those fouls.

[LAL1947]

Michael Jordan - 8.2 FTA per game
LeBron James - 7.8 FTA per game

Jordan played in a 'tougher era' and was far more of a finesse player than LeBron who spent the majority of his career as a downhill attacking physical tank.....and MJ still averaged more free throws per game predominantly as a mid range jump shooter.

So even in a 'weak and soft' era with a much more physical playstyle---LeBron still shoots less FTs per game than MJ.

I know a lot of people hate LeBron, but he has been officiated much differently than Jordan.

Spare me with the 'MJ had it so much harder' BS. Watching him since 2003, LeBron in those 2005-2015 years should have easily shot 20 FTs a game if the refs just called the fouls, but because of his size/strength the refs swallowed their whistles. It was so bad at certain points both the Lakers and Cavs front offices had to address the league office about it on multiple occasions.

I don’t know if I agree that Lebron is more of an attacker. Lebron is averaging almost 8 3 point attempts per game this year and Jordan’s high was 3.6. For careers Lebron averages 4.5 3s a game and Jordan averaged 1.7.

The 2 years Jordan averaged the most free throws were 87 and 88, when he attacked the rim relentlessly.

2006-2010 is when Lebron shot the most free throws per game.

Both Lebron and Jordan attacked the rim relentlessly early in their career, but then later as they developed more of an all around game they didn’t averaged as many free throws.

IDK man. I think a lot of people forget what 2003-2013 LeBron was like. I would venture around 40-50% of his offense was running to the basket with a full head of steam, generating contact and finished through contact against Forwards/Centers. That was his offense. I dont think Jordan was close to the amount of physical player that LeBron was.

Welp, Lebron averaged 8.8 FTA per game for the period you are referring to, i.e., 2003-04 to 2011-12.

Just FYI, I think Lebron has generally shied away from contact... or he'd have developed a better post-game and developed one a lot sooner too.

[LivingLegend]

I don’t know if I agree that Lebron is more of an attacker. Lebron is averaging almost 8 3 point attempts per game this year and Jordan’s high was 3.6. For careers Lebron averages 4.5 3s a game and Jordan averaged 1.7.

The 2 years Jordan averaged the most free throws were 87 and 88, when he attacked the rim relentlessly.

2006-2010 is when Lebron shot the most free throws per game.

Both Lebron and Jordan attacked the rim relentlessly early in their career, but then later as they developed more of an all around game they didn’t averaged as many free throws.

IDK man. I think a lot of people forget what 2003-2013 LeBron was like. I would venture around 40-50% of his offense was running to the basket with a full head of steam, generating contact and finished through contact against Forwards/Centers. That was his offense. I dont think Jordan was close to the amount of physical player that LeBron was.

Welp, Lebron averaged 8.8 FTA per game for the period you are referring to, i.e., 2003-04 to 2011-12.

Just FYI, I think Lebron has generally shied away from contact... or he'd have developed a better post-game and developed one a lot sooner too.

He has more than 1,300+ And-1s. #1 in history, by a lot. He has literally finished through contact more than any player in NBA history since the stat was being kept. Not sure how anyone could watch LeBrons career and think he shies away from contact.

This again goes back to a looooot of people forget how LeBron played basketball from 2003-2013.

[JonFromVA]

Yes (I lived through that era and yes Jordan was spectacular and deserves his accolades, ANY SLIGHT TOUCH ON JORDAN, QUICK FOUL!)

We need another option, otherwise I can't vote:

(C) Defenders either got out of Jordan's way, or they were going to get called for a foul when he missed a shot.

[LivingLegend]

Ahem.

Even at 37 years old ge doesn't get a whistle when he has more shots at the rim then the best *Center* in basketball does.

Read on Twitter

[The Box Office]

OP somehow went into the soul, mind, and body of Michael Jordan in the 1980s and 1990s and experienced all of that in real time.
OP also somehow went into the soul, mind, and body of LeBron James of 2000 - 2022 and experienced all of that in real time.

Much like the films, "Get Out" and "Becoming Malkovich" to be able to make this thread on RealGM to compare.

[zimpy27]

It's insane how much LeBron drives with contact and no calls. The guy needs to start flopping hard