Brooklyn got bamboozled by James Harden

[Hello Brooklyn]

It’s very close between the two. The thing here though is that Allen has far more value. He’s on a lighter contract which allows more flexibility for his team and being a rim protecting big who can guard out at the perimeter. Bigs like that are extremely valuable. He is limited offensively but has a high basketball IQ so it hasn’t really hurt him production wise.

I do agree that overall, Simmons is the better player. But I would much rather have Allen right now.

An All NBA, 2 time Defensive All Team 3 time All Star compared to a one time replacement replacement All Star

Its close?

Simmons is arguably the best defensive player in the NBA. Allen is not even close to that versatile.

And then you accuse me of being a homer.

You think Joe Harris is equal to Allen in value.

You know literally nothing about what kind of player Allen is and why he’s so valuable.

I’ll tell you what though. If you’re so confident, why don’t you make a thread asking the forum who is better?

Yes to the Nets.

Would the Nets with Simmons, KD and Kyrie rather have Allen or Harris?

I promise you 10/10 they would take Harris. One provides spacing the other doesnt.

Its not that hard to understand at all. If you know basketball.

No I won't make a thread. Again I'm not obsessed.

[the_process]

Time wil tell but getting out from under that next Harden contract is huge. Lets talk in 5 years.

If the Sixers win a ring, no one cares about about eating the last year or two of Harden's contract. But I agree, let's see how it all ends up.

[Hoop Heavy]

Kidding aside, I was flabbergasted by all of the "experts" saying the Nets won this trade. Huh? You obviously have to take in account what they gave up 12 months ago to get Harden. They literally gave up an All Star in Jarrett Allen.

The only thing I actually liked from the Nets perspective was getting Seth Curry in the deal. He's a really good piece.

They could have had a lineup of

C - Allen
PF - Durant
SF - Harris
SG - LeVert
PG - Irving

These GM's need to stop gutting their teams for big names. It's just not working out. Bubble Lakers is an outlier but now we're seeing how bad of an idea that's turned out to be.

Simmons hasn't played yet. We need to see how he plays and how the Nets look with everyone healthy before we can gauge anything substantial. It entirely possible that Simmons + Curry synergises better with Kyrie and KD than Harden offensively.

Yeah,

Let's not forget that Allen has bloomed in Cleveland.

He still had "all star potential" when he was in Brooklyn, but he's take a big step lately. Now, it's Simmons turn with the new scenery ... if he finds a role and helps the team ... I'll form a different opinion than ... if he creates lots of drama and low IQ play (sort of like a taller Westbrook).

I'm counting pick swaps sort of as 1/2 picks for what it is worth.

I'll tell you a year from now whether I prefer Allen or Simmons. I really like Allen as a defensive anchor and offensive board bully. If the Simmons contract is a joke a couple of years from now ... then no Brooklyn didn't win ... otherwise I see the point.

Still, it is less that Brooklyn "lost" or "was bamboozled" and more that they have been defrauded by Harden. He sucked for a while there before the deadline ... just like he did when he was in Houston and was unhappy ... and now he's trying hard again.

Fine demand a trade ... but to coerce your employer into a "tampering deal" you have decided to accept by playing poorly on purpose is not the kind of action you expect from veteran leaders with a "championship mentality" .


Yes, Harden is intensely skilled ... Still is he a champion? ... or will there always be a reason to crumble. Let's wait a year or two on whether Philly actually moved forward ... or just traded one malcontent for another.

[Karate Diop]

Eh... Let's let Simmons take the court before we jump to conclusions.

The way things look right now the Sixers have the best player, the Nets still significantly improved from LeVert and JAFRO and the Cavaliers got better as well.

If you want to laugh at anyone laugh at the Rockets

Their swaps are actually even less likely to convey with the Nets picking up Simmons...

Now or tomorrow when Simmons returns harden is was and will always be better then Simmons

Oh I agree, and have never said otherwise... In terms of talent Harden is far and away the best player involved in all of these deals. In Houston he was a legitimate Top 5 player, even if he's lost a step now he's still a Top 10 player. Simmons at his peak was maybe a Top 20 player? Top 25?

The Nets only got Harden because he pouted and cries his way out of Houston, the Nets had to trade Harden because he pouted and cried his way out of Brooklyn. If they had that top 5-10 Harden every time he stepped on the court then it would have been crazy not to ride out this season... But since he wasn't at that level for them this year and was single-handedly destroying the locker room he had to go... Even if Simmons returns to form it's hard to imagine the Nets being as good as they fleetingly were in Harden's brief first season with them, but if the chemistry is there it wouldn't be surprising for them to be a better team than they were with Harden this year now that he's gone and nobody is actively working to sabotage the season.

[dshearn]

There are opportunity windows to get players and manage the cap. I don't fault the nets for going after harden.I think i actually posted at the time, a better move would have been to spread out the money to support KD and kyrie or to trade kyrie and flesh out the roster.

In the end that is kind of what happened. I would not have traded Harden to the 76ers if given the choice though. The Harden-Embiid-Maxey combo might just run out the rest of KD's career or until Kyrie implodes.

[bubonicphoniks]

Time wil tell but getting out from under that next Harden contract is huge. Lets talk in 5 years.

If the Sixers win a ring, no one cares about about eating the last year or two of Harden's contract. But I agree, let's see how it all ends up.

Yep. Id sign up for him staying in BK for a chip.

It is what it is. Lets see what ya got come playoff time James.

(And BK)

[76ersForLife]

The Nets still have a great team once they get healthy. Kyrie being nut case moving forward would be my only conern for their organization. But they are loaded and Simmons will be terrific with KD.

[TheLand13]

An All NBA, 2 time Defensive All Team 3 time All Star compared to a one time replacement replacement All Star

Its close?

Simmons is arguably the best defensive player in the NBA. Allen is not even close to that versatile.

And then you accuse me of being a homer.

You think Joe Harris is equal to Allen in value.

You know literally nothing about what kind of player Allen is and why he’s so valuable.

I’ll tell you what though. If you’re so confident, why don’t you make a thread asking the forum who is better?

Yes to the Nets.

Would the Nets with Simmons, KD and Kyrie rather have Allen or Harris?

I promise you 10/10 they would take Harris. One provides spacing the other doesnt.

Its not that hard to understand at all. If you know basketball.

No I won't make a thread. Again I'm not obsessed.

You’re not obsessed and yet you put my quote in your sig. You don’t get to make that complaint. And that comparison doesn’t apply here because everyone knows that isn’t what you were talking about.

But thanks for demonstrating you have a little bit of self awareness. I guess even you know that most people would take Allen because… you know, basketball logic.

[TheLand13]

The Nets still have a great team once they get healthy. Kyrie being nut case moving forward would be my only conern for their organization. But they are loaded and Simmons will be terrific with KD.

I’m far more worried about Simmons than I am Irving if we’re strictly talking from a mental point of view.

[Jadoogar]

Kidding aside, I was flabbergasted by all of the "experts" saying the Nets won this trade. Huh? You obviously have to take in account what they gave up 12 months ago to get Harden. They literally gave up an All Star in Jarrett Allen.

The only thing I actually liked from the Nets perspective was getting Seth Curry in the deal. He's a really good piece.

They could have had a lineup of

C - Allen
PF - Durant
SF - Harris
SG - LeVert
PG - Irving

These GM's need to stop gutting their teams for big names. It's just not working out. Bubble Lakers is an outlier but now we're seeing how bad of an idea that's turned out to be.

I wonder if the league will shift toward 2 stars + role players rather than trying to create a "big 3". it worked for the Heat and Warriors obviously but it seems to be very high risk, high reward. 2 stars allows you to better fill out the rest of the team and better depth incase of injury.

[bubonicphoniks]

The Nets still have a great team once they get healthy. Kyrie being nut case moving forward would be my only conern for their organization. But they are loaded and Simmons will be terrific with KD.

I’m far more worried about Simmons than I am Irving if we’re strictly talking from a mental point of view.

Well yeah not to derail the thread. Kyrie when he shows up lays it all out there and is an uber comfident guard. Simmons has the yips which are not gooooooooooood.

[MotownMadness]

Kidding aside, I was flabbergasted by all of the "experts" saying the Nets won this trade. Huh? You obviously have to take in account what they gave up 12 months ago to get Harden. They literally gave up an All Star in Jarrett Allen.

The only thing I actually liked from the Nets perspective was getting Seth Curry in the deal. He's a really good piece.

They could have had a lineup of

C - Allen
PF - Durant
SF - Harris
SG - LeVert
PG - Irving

These GM's need to stop gutting their teams for big names. It's just not working out. Bubble Lakers is an outlier but now we're seeing how bad of an idea that's turned out to be.

I wonder if the league will shift toward 2 stars + role players rather than trying to create a "big 3". it worked for the Heat and Warriors obviously but it seems to be very high risk, high reward. 2 stars allows you to better fill out the rest of the team and better depth incase of injury.

I think thats the way to go for sure

[danvato]

The Nets essentially traded Jarrett Allen, Caris LeVert & 7 first round picks for a disgruntled Ben Simmons, Seth Curry, Drummond & two late firsts that might not convey.

That's terrible asset management. Morey's patience paid off. The Sixers will make it out of the east with this trade. There's a good chance Harden gets his first ring this year.

What an asine take.

"7 first round picks"
"two firsts that might not convey"

Jesus, have an agenda much?

[danvato]

Kidding aside, I was flabbergasted by all of the "experts" saying the Nets won this trade. Huh? You obviously have to take in account what they gave up 12 months ago to get Harden. They literally gave up an All Star in Jarrett Allen.

The only thing I actually liked from the Nets perspective was getting Seth Curry in the deal. He's a really good piece.

They could have had a lineup of

C - Allen
PF - Durant
SF - Harris
SG - LeVert
PG - Irving

These GM's need to stop gutting their teams for big names. It's just not working out. Bubble Lakers is an outlier but now we're seeing how bad of an idea that's turned out to be.

I love Jarrett Allen, but this is another asinine take. Yeah, Allen is literally an all-star, a 1 time all-star and he got in as a 2nd injury replacement. The Nets received....LITERALLY an all-star in return, a 3x all-star and 1 time all-nba player. Ohh as young Allen is, Ben is just 2 years older.

The package sent for Harden was worth the package they got back if it was direct trade.

Oh, in case this is your 1st year following the NBA, that amazing line-up that Nets "could have had", THEY HAD! LAST YEAR! They were not that good.

[Heezzi]

7 first round picks is just BS.

You can't count the pick swaps unless they convey. We don't know if they will. The first one already did not.

One first round pick went for a year of Harden where he played like an MVP.

The next two are cancelled out by the Sixers picks.

So its essentially:

Levert
Allen
3 pick swaps

FOR

Simmons
Curry
Drummond

On what planet is that not worth it?

Curry is just better than Levert. Simmons is far better than Allen even with his limitations.

And with a younger Simmons it might be less likely that those swaps convey.

Is the value close to what it was originally? No.

But still a good trade overall.

Nah... You were on point until the Curry part. In no way shape or form is Seth Curry better than Levert. He's an OK floor spacer who will hit every wide open 3 you give him, if you choose not to pay any attention to him. Can't get a 3 off to save his life against any kind of contest.

What are you smokin? Curry is averaging so far 7.6 3PA so far on 47% shooting as the primary on the Nets vs Carris 3.5 3PA on the Cavs. Even before being traded Curry was averaging 5.6 3PA to Carris 4.8 3PA.

[Hello Brooklyn]

You think Joe Harris is equal to Allen in value.

You know literally nothing about what kind of player Allen is and why he’s so valuable.

I’ll tell you what though. If you’re so confident, why don’t you make a thread asking the forum who is better?

Yes to the Nets.

Would the Nets with Simmons, KD and Kyrie rather have Allen or Harris?

I promise you 10/10 they would take Harris. One provides spacing the other doesnt.

Its not that hard to understand at all. If you know basketball.

No I won't make a thread. Again I'm not obsessed.

You’re not obsessed and yet you put my quote in your sig. You don’t get to make that complaint. And that comparison doesn’t apply here because everyone knows that isn’t what you were talking about.

But thanks for demonstrating you have a little bit of self awareness. I guess even you know that most people would take Allen because… you know, basketball logic.

That is what I said. You just have trouble understanding basic things. Not my fault.

No most people would not take Allen. Shooting is more valuable in the modern NBA.

Its not that hard to understand. Traditional Centers are not that important in the playoffs. Everyone seems to know this except you.

[TheLand13]

Yes to the Nets.

Would the Nets with Simmons, KD and Kyrie rather have Allen or Harris?

I promise you 10/10 they would take Harris. One provides spacing the other doesnt.

Its not that hard to understand at all. If you know basketball.

No I won't make a thread. Again I'm not obsessed.

You’re not obsessed and yet you put my quote in your sig. You don’t get to make that complaint. And that comparison doesn’t apply here because everyone knows that isn’t what you were talking about.

But thanks for demonstrating you have a little bit of self awareness. I guess even you know that most people would take Allen because… you know, basketball logic.

No most people would not take Allen. Shooting is more valuable in the modern NBA.

Lmao holy ****. I wasn’t going to respond to this originally, but this part is golden.

Who are you referring to? Ben Simmons? Are you really telling me people would factor in shooting and ultimately go with Simmons?? Do you not understand Ben’s game? Or even Allen’s for that matter? Are you not aware that Allen actually has an improved mid range shot?

Or are you talking about Harris? Because we literally just had a poll where 90% of the site (and that’s not an exaggeration) picked Allen and even mocked it as a joke poll. I just can’t with this guy. It’s like you can’t go an hour without saying something dumb.

[ibraheim718]

As opposed to?

C-Drummond
PF-Durant
SF-Harris
SG-Curry
PG- Irving

I'm not really getting the point youre trying to make.

Levert would not fit well at all. Hes a poor shooter, bad defender, constantly injured and his iso play would not work with KD/Kyrie.

Curry is far better suited to play with them as an elite shooter.

And Simmons is just far better than Allen. Hes can guard 1-5, is a good passer, and can run the break.

This avoids the fact that Harden is one of the greatest players in NBA history. And if you have a chance to trade for him you do it.

Were supposed to not do it because of Jarrett Allen? Comon now.

Are you saying Simmons isn't starting? If so you're out your damn mind.

Brain fart on my part

C-Drummond
PF-Durant
SF-Simmons
SG-Harris
PG- Kyrie

No worries.. I was just thinking that's been discussed at some point between Nash and Simmons. Btw nobody has talked about the influence Nash is going to have on Ben. Ben already does a pretty good job at probing but I bet he's going to pick some things up from Nash. And with Korver working on his Jimmy I expect a huge impact from Simmons towards the end of the season and in the playoffs. Another thing not talked about is how Simmons is one of the few defenders whose had success slowing Giannis down.

[Hello Brooklyn]

You’re not obsessed and yet you put my quote in your sig. You don’t get to make that complaint. And that comparison doesn’t apply here because everyone knows that isn’t what you were talking about.

But thanks for demonstrating you have a little bit of self awareness. I guess even you know that most people would take Allen because… you know, basketball logic.

No most people would not take Allen. Shooting is more valuable in the modern NBA.

Lmao holy ****. I wasn’t going to respond to this originally, but this part is golden.

Who are you referring to? Ben Simmons? Are you really telling me people would factor in shooting and ultimately go with Simmons?? Do you not understand Ben’s game? Or even Allen’s for that matter? Are you not aware that Allen actually has an improved mid range shot?

Or are you talking about Harris? Because we literally just had a poll where 90% of the site (and that’s not an exaggeration) picked Allen and even mocked it as a joke poll. I just can’t with this guy. It’s like you can’t go an hour without saying something dumb.

Are you really that dense?

I'm talking about Harris.

The poll was not about who would be more valuable to the Nets as currently constructed. So your poll results are utterly irrelevent.

Obviously if starting a team from scratch youd rather have Allen. No one is debating that.

[Woodsanity]

Not sure why anyone is surprised. This is the same guy who played bad and out of shape on the Rockets then suddenly played well again when he got to the Nets. Same thing happened here.