Brooklyn got bamboozled by James Harden

[TheLand13]

No most people would not take Allen. Shooting is more valuable in the modern NBA.

Lmao holy ****. I wasn’t going to respond to this originally, but this part is golden.

Who are you referring to? Ben Simmons? Are you really telling me people would factor in shooting and ultimately go with Simmons?? Do you not understand Ben’s game? Or even Allen’s for that matter? Are you not aware that Allen actually has an improved mid range shot?

Or are you talking about Harris? Because we literally just had a poll where 90% of the site (and that’s not an exaggeration) picked Allen and even mocked it as a joke poll. I just can’t with this guy. It’s like you can’t go an hour without saying something dumb.

Are you really that dense?

I'm talking about Harris.

The poll was not about who would be more valuable to the Nets as currently constructed. So your poll results are utterly irrelevent.

Obviously if starting a team from scratch youd rather have Allen. No one is debating that.

You are truly the gift that keeps on giving. Never change.

[76ciology]

Yes, Nets bamboozled themselves. They should have NEVER intervened when Harden was about to be a Sixer when they were at talks with the Rox.

JJ Redick and LeVert said in their podcast that everyone in the league knew back then Harden was going to be a Sixer (they said it before the recent Harden to Sixer deal).

[Tottery]

Bamboozled as in, not playing as well as he could to force a trade? Probably. He has done it before and might again. Bamboozled as in the better trade? Not sold on that one. I need to see Irving, Simmons, KD, Curry, Drummond, Harris, etc. on the court together before I form that conclusion.

[art_tatum]

Harden cost us a title plain and simple.
I’m not even talking about if we had levert etc vs the bucks. If harden never even came back we would’ve been champs (since kyrie would’ve been back next round/finals) Dude shot like 15% from 3 in that bucks series.

[Sane]

The Nets essentially traded Jarrett Allen, Caris LeVert & 7 first round picks for a disgruntled Ben Simmons, Seth Curry, Drummond & two late firsts that might not convey.

That's terrible asset management. Morey's patience paid off. The Sixers will make it out of the east with this trade. There's a good chance Harden gets his first ring this year.

Fans need stop counting draft swaps as draft picks. I doubt houstan is swapping picks anytime soon with the nets. The 2021 Swap has already passed, and i don't think they'll be swapping in 2023 either. Maybe the 2027 swap worksout who knows.

Levert is always injured, Allen is good and 3 picks are useful. It depends on how well Simmons plays

This is like saying your insurance policy has no value because you didn't have an accident. The swaps are amazing, if we do well it rewards us, if they happen to screw up it also rewards us. It's a safety net, certainly has value. Gives you flexibility in your rebuild.

[therealbig3]

I LOVE Jarrett Allen, he's been one of my favorite players since he came into the league, and I was a big supporter of him throughout his Nets tenure. Still makes me mad that we had to trade him in the Harden deal.

But he's being hyped up to be something he's not. He's a great defensive role player. He's not as good as Ben Simmons. Not really that close. And certainly not someone you choose over James Harden.

[therealbig3]

Let's make something clear here. The Nets bamboozled themselves. They have no one to blame but themselves for buying into the super team hype and trading away key assets to make it happen. Now they are just a Durant and Irving walking away from being irrelevant again, and while I don't necessarily see Irving leaving given his love for the franchise, I can absolutely see Durant leaving if there are clear signs that this isn't working out. And before people claim "well they still have Irving", I'd like to introduce you to the past where Irving tried being the leader and explain how that worked out. Spoiler warning: it didn't.

People can say anything they want about Harden before the trade, with "he was a former MVP candidate" being my favorite. But here are the facts: Brooklyn had Irving and Durant. There is nothing you can do to convince me that the thing they needed most was more offense. That's idiotic. Forget Levert for a moment. Allen is looking like he's going to be a top 5 center in the league for years to come. You cannot justify giving up something like that, especially when it was already clear before he got traded that the potential was there. And now it's being shown before our very eyes. And what is he now? A walking double double on insane efficiency, and one of the best defensive centers in the league. And, by the way, an extremely smart player. It's hard to take advantage of his weaknesses because he does a very good job of preventing them from being exploited.

Actually, I take back what I said. Cleveland bamboozled the Nets. They now have both Allen and Levert and could potentially have the latter long term. I'm not saying Cleveland will win a title in the next few years, but the chances of them being more relevant and title contenders in the long term are far greater than Brooklyn's at this point. And we have only them to thank for that. So again, thank you Brooklyn, for continuing to prove after the disastrous trade with the Celtics that you are not capable of learning your lesson. Now Cleveland gets to be the one to benefit from it instead of them.

Maybe that's Brooklyn's calling. Building up an actual team and then throwing it all away to help others rebuild quickly. That's the only thing they've proven themselves to be capable of doing at this point, and hell they're pretty good at it.

I’m not sold on Allen. Really. He’s got his limitations. He doesn’t shoot the ball well. He’s below average free throw shooter. A little better this season though. I’m
Not saying he’s bad. But Allen is in the Clint capela type of center level. Especially with the faster pace of the nba game.

Nets knew Allen would want at least 4/100 million and didn’t want to pay it. Levert is a chucker. Highly inefficient and redundant with harden there. So he wasn’t needed.

When you have a chance for James harden. You go for the trade. We all know a healthy nets team wins the nba title last season. Even a healthy Irving and KD would
Have been enough to get them pass the bucks.

Allen is better than Capela at this point. He’s limited offensively, but I like I said before, his high IQ makes him harder to defend at that end. He’s also a much better defender. I do agree Levert wasn’t needed. But a player like Allen is a necessity these days with just his defense alone. A center who is mobile enough to defend at the perimeter while protecting the rim at an elite rate is a very rare and sought after type of talent.

Again, the question needs to be asked: why was James Harden needed on a team with Irving and Durant? No one has been able to answer this apart from “he’s James Harden” and “he’s a former MVP candidate”. Those are terrible answers and aren’t justifiable for making a trade like this. Did the Nets become an offensive juggernaut? Yes, but that’s not the direction they needed to go and quite frankly, if they had focused on building up their defense instead, they would be in a much better position.

Your counterpoint isn't that great itself. No, the Nets didn't NEED more offense...but adding James Harden for the on-court value of Levert and Allen turned them into an offensive juggernaut that could not be stopped. Pointing to their defense and ignoring that their offense wasn't just elite, but was game-breaking elite kind of misses the point. They elevated themselves to a level above their competition and were on their way to cruise to a title...until they got hurt.

"Balance" is an overrated concept. And the Nets wouldn't be in any better position now with Levert and Allen instead.

[righterwriter]

I was laughing all game because Harden looked better then he ever has out there. Including his body...he's obviously not out of shape like everyone said.

Morey is a genius.

Just wait until Embiid gets hurt and Harden is asked to carry the team. He doesn't like the responsibility of being the leader or having to grind through hard times. A sudden, self-diagnosed have a hamstring injury will occur that forces the team to sit him or trade him to the Lakers .

[rocketsfan100]

I was laughing all game because Harden looked better then he ever has out there. Including his body...he's obviously not out of shape like everyone said.

Morey is a genius.

Just wait until Embiid gets hurt and Harden is asked to carry the team. He doesn't like the responsibility of being the leader or having to grind through hard times. A sudden, self-diagnosed have a hamstring injury will occur that forces the team to sit him or trade him to the Lakers .

Is this the same guy who carried the Rockets for 8 years? Or the same guy who carried the nets last season till his hamstring eventually broke? His gripe was Kyrie not being bought in while he had to play not fully healthy this season. Not what he bought in for. Be reasonable

[M2J]

I'd say overall the Nets came out fine. But, the dynamics with Ben are something that will need to be figured out. I can see him not working out with Kyrie and Kevin, in terms of feeling iced out. Let's be real that man was willing to be traded to a team like the Kings because he wanted to be the man. Not happening in Brooklyn. The front office will not cater to him like they will Durant and his friend Kyrie. Brooklyn's not going to wait for his potential the way the team that drafted him did, plus he has this one strike from his actions this year in a media market like NY. I won't be surprised to see Philly media drive up to make his life hell.

On the court... On paper it should be a great situation for Ben to thrive. Facilitating to versatile scorers, getting up and down the court. He'll be a solid finisher for them to, as he needs to be the screener in half court.

He should of course be a great defender for them, but you can't legitimately play him with Drummond, and not playing Drummond to protect the paint will take away much of that defensive addition. Also, unless the Nets just go all offensea and be damned with defense... you can't play too much of Curry without being able to hide him defensively in the playoffs. He's a bench player.... Philly when completely healthy last year (Danny Green got hurt vs Atlanta) could hide him.

Curry is a great value contract. But still a bench player, and one dimensional. Drummond could just as easily return to the sixers this summer, and one dimensional. The picks will likely be worthless, but I still feel like they suggest great value from Simmons. Even in a trade, he should be more valuable, because he should fit better there.

[righterwriter]

I was laughing all game because Harden looked better then he ever has out there. Including his body...he's obviously not out of shape like everyone said.

Morey is a genius.

Just wait until Embiid gets hurt and Harden is asked to carry the team. He doesn't like the responsibility of being the leader or having to grind through hard times. A sudden, self-diagnosed have a hamstring injury will occur that forces the team to sit him or trade him to the Lakers .

Is this the same guy who carried the Rockets for 8 years? Or the same guy who carried the nets last season till his hamstring eventually broke? His gripe was Kyrie not being bought in while he had to play not fully healthy this season. Not what he bought in for. Be reasonable

The same guy who quit at the end of numerous playoff series, showed up fat and out of shape leading to injuries, and who demanded off of two teams within two years because he didn't want to lead them.

I'd ask that you be reasonable when assessing Harden. He's a great offensive player, but doesn't have what it takes to lead a team to a championship. After all this time, it's written in stone now. Even playing under Embiid won't change that.

[zimpy27]

The Nets essentially traded Jarrett Allen, Caris LeVert & 7 first round picks for a disgruntled Ben Simmons, Seth Curry, Drummond & two late firsts that might not convey.

That's terrible asset management. Morey's patience paid off. The Sixers will make it out of the east with this trade. There's a good chance Harden gets his first ring this year.

Technically it was Allen, LeVert, 1 FRP for Simmons, Curry, LeVert..

Those swaps will not amount to much, nets only gave 3 FRPs and now they get 2 FRPs (so 1 FRP total). Allen wasn't seen as this good then either..

So the trade was good.

[TheLand13]

I’m not sold on Allen. Really. He’s got his limitations. He doesn’t shoot the ball well. He’s below average free throw shooter. A little better this season though. I’m
Not saying he’s bad. But Allen is in the Clint capela type of center level. Especially with the faster pace of the nba game.

Nets knew Allen would want at least 4/100 million and didn’t want to pay it. Levert is a chucker. Highly inefficient and redundant with harden there. So he wasn’t needed.

When you have a chance for James harden. You go for the trade. We all know a healthy nets team wins the nba title last season. Even a healthy Irving and KD would
Have been enough to get them pass the bucks.

Allen is better than Capela at this point. He’s limited offensively, but I like I said before, his high IQ makes him harder to defend at that end. He’s also a much better defender. I do agree Levert wasn’t needed. But a player like Allen is a necessity these days with just his defense alone. A center who is mobile enough to defend at the perimeter while protecting the rim at an elite rate is a very rare and sought after type of talent.

Again, the question needs to be asked: why was James Harden needed on a team with Irving and Durant? No one has been able to answer this apart from “he’s James Harden” and “he’s a former MVP candidate”. Those are terrible answers and aren’t justifiable for making a trade like this. Did the Nets become an offensive juggernaut? Yes, but that’s not the direction they needed to go and quite frankly, if they had focused on building up their defense instead, they would be in a much better position.

Your counterpoint isn't that great itself. No, the Nets didn't NEED more offense...but adding James Harden for the on-court value of Levert and Allen turned them into an offensive juggernaut that could not be stopped. Pointing to their defense and ignoring that their offense wasn't just elite, but was game-breaking elite kind of misses the point. They elevated themselves to a level above their competition and were on their way to cruise to a title...until they got hurt.

"Balance" is an overrated concept. And the Nets wouldn't be in any better position now with Levert and Allen instead.

And how do you know they could not be stopped? They had a very small sample size to work with. Granted, they looked scary good when they played. But we know the playoffs are a different animal, and you always need to be good in some capacity on the defensive end of the floor to win in the finals. I’m not saying they couldn’t have won. What I will say is that they had very glaring weaknesses that could be exploited.

Balance isn’t an overrated concept at all. It is absolutely needed when putting together a title contending team.

[Pointgod]

James Harden is a pathetic player and **** teammate. He purposely tanked his play to get out of Brooklyn instead of just asking for a trade. I don’t see how he doesn’t get the same amount of vitriol that Simmons gets. I at least respect Simmons more because he let the Sixers know he wanted to be traded and then sat out. Harden actually hurt his team with his godawful play and lack of effort towards the end.

[BeatDaCavs420]

I was laughing all game because Harden looked better then he ever has out there. Including his body...he's obviously not out of shape like everyone said.

Morey is a genius.

I really do think he puts on body suites when he wants out lmfao

[Snotbubbles]

James Harden is a pathetic player and **** teammate. He purposely tanked his play to get out of Brooklyn instead of just asking for a trade. I don’t see how he doesn’t get the same amount of vitriol that Simmons gets. I at least respect Simmons more because he let the Sixers know he wanted to be traded and then sat out. Harden actually hurt his team with his godawful play and lack of effort towards the end.

I have little respect for Ben Simmons. He tried to game the system to avoid coming to work and still get paid. Simmons hurt his team even more because not only wasn't he there, but his team had to spend each day talking to the media about it.

At least you got something out of Harden. I'd be more upset with Kyrie Irving than Harden. At some point Harden said, "these dudes don't really want to win, get me outta here."

[Snotbubbles]

I was laughing all game because Harden looked better then he ever has out there. Including his body...he's obviously not out of shape like everyone said.

Morey is a genius.

I really do think he puts on body suites when he wants out lmfao

Rivers said he came in in great shape. I didn't really follow Harden much but he doesn't look overweight.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Lmao holy ****. I wasn’t going to respond to this originally, but this part is golden.

Who are you referring to? Ben Simmons? Are you really telling me people would factor in shooting and ultimately go with Simmons?? Do you not understand Ben’s game? Or even Allen’s for that matter? Are you not aware that Allen actually has an improved mid range shot?

Or are you talking about Harris? Because we literally just had a poll where 90% of the site (and that’s not an exaggeration) picked Allen and even mocked it as a joke poll. I just can’t with this guy. It’s like you can’t go an hour without saying something dumb.

Are you really that dense?

I'm talking about Harris.

The poll was not about who would be more valuable to the Nets as currently constructed. So your poll results are utterly irrelevent.

Obviously if starting a team from scratch youd rather have Allen. No one is debating that.

You are truly the gift that keeps on giving. Never change.

Hello Brooklyn vs TheLand13

the heavyweight boxing match RealGM deserves

[Jazz9]

He looks in way better shape than the last time I saw him in a Nets uni
The thicker he gets, the closer to a trade

[imDatknicksTape]

or it just didnt work out. That happens too. Harden is too talented to not take a chance on him