2021-2022 Regular Season Game 62: Indiana Pacers (21-41) at Orlando Magic (14-47) - 2/28/22 - 7pm ET

[pepe1991]

There is always same talk lol

When we win portion of fans hate it because it will ruin tank , others yell how it doesn't matter
When we lose portion of people hate it because tanking doesn't work , others are happy

This is most unsuprising win possible. Against team without 3 starters ( Turner, Brogdon, TJ Warren ) and 3 backups ( Lance, Rubio & TJM) , with Duerte on heavy min restrictions ( game time decision injury ) after they traded whole team away against Magic who now have 100% healthy roster minus guy who writes books, while being well rested since it's just Magic second game after ASG.
We will probably beat them again in two days.

And who just beat the Celtics who are one of the hotter teams in the league right now.

Celtics played Nets on February 25 on a road, flew to Detroit and played them after 17-18 hours, than flew to Indiana and played them on third night of back to back to backs.
They were simply drained, Tatum & Brown played over 100 min. And Celtics are top heavy, their bench is pretty poor so they couldn't rely on it.

[drsd]

Soooo.... uh who we facing in the play-in?

Just 20 more ins to go!

I believe !!!!

..

[drsd]

There is always same talk lol

When we win portion of fans hate it because it will ruin tank , others yell how it doesn't matter
When we lose portion of people hate it because tanking doesn't work , others are happy

This is most unsuprising win possible. Against team without 3 starters ( Turner, Brogdon, TJ Warren ) and 3 backups ( Lance, Rubio & TJM) , with Duerte on heavy min restrictions ( game time decision injury ) after they traded whole team away against Magic who now have 100% healthy roster minus guy who writes books, while being well rested since it's just Magic second game after ASG.
We will probably beat them again in two days.

And-1

The grass is not always greener. Orlando needs to develop its current assets as not only is the lottery, well a lottery, the drafted player might turn out to be a bust. And is not probable to be a star no matter what.

In this game, the Magic starters not named Cole Anthony all played very well. Their development - and the solid bench play of Fultz and Hampton means that Orlando got solid minutes from 6 key, über-young players.
Do we not want these six players (and also Anthony) to improve? When players play better, the team wins games. That's kind of the point.

[drsd]

Positivity stat of the game: 119-103

Digging deeper. In a game the Magic did not shoot well, did not rebound, and was mediocre at the FT line, the Magic diminated in TO-differential of all stats.

The -11 TO differential was key in the Magic taking 24 more FG attempts. Both those number are ridiculous. Coach slept well last night, with those dream coaching stat lines.

[drsd]

So who do we like in the draft, AJ Griffin or Johnny Davis?

Not gonna lie, I'm a bit concerned about our tank now that Fultz is back...

You say that and then put in a Fultz step back as your avatar. Now I understand: you are a stealth anti-tanker.

So the Magic have 15 wins with 19 games to go.

Realistically I see something like 6 more wins which would put the Magic up to 21.

Indiana already has 21. OKC has 19 and I don't see a 2-18 close out of them either.

Third worst lotto odds being the worst case scenario seems reasonable.

I don't disagree with that but as always, I build in disappointment of falling in the draft. So if we end up with the worst record, we'll draft ~5th, 2nd worst=~5th, and 3rd worst=~6th. I don't want the 6th pick. That would be devastating after this long season of tanking. I can cope with 4th. And realistically, the odds are in the favor of what I posted.

https://tankathon.com/pick_odds

The worst three teams all have the same odds to go top-4. Basically a coin-flip for any of the worst three to get a top-4 pick.


..

[pepe1991]

There is always same talk lol

When we win portion of fans hate it because it will ruin tank , others yell how it doesn't matter
When we lose portion of people hate it because tanking doesn't work , others are happy

This is most unsuprising win possible. Against team without 3 starters ( Turner, Brogdon, TJ Warren ) and 3 backups ( Lance, Rubio & TJM) , with Duerte on heavy min restrictions ( game time decision injury ) after they traded whole team away against Magic who now have 100% healthy roster minus guy who writes books, while being well rested since it's just Magic second game after ASG.
We will probably beat them again in two days.

And-1

The grass is not always greener. Orlando needs to develop its current assets as not only is the lottery, well a lottery, the drafted player might turn out to be a bust. And is not probable to be a star no matter what.

In this game, the Magic starters not named Cole Anthony all played very well. Their development - and the solid bench play of Fultz and Hampton means that Orlando got solid minutes from 6 key, über-young players.
Do we not want these six players (and also Anthony) to improve? When players play better, the team wins games. That's kind of the point.

Whole ping pong race is worthless and debates about it are even more worthless.
Yes worst record guarantees you top 5 pick, but also doesn't improve your chance to draft first nor second ( nor third nor fourth).
Yes, further you go there are bigger chances to fall, but odds of winning lottery stay largley the same for 4 worst teams. Regardless are you worst or 3rd worst team, odds for top 4 picks are identical.
5th worst record has 42% chance drafting within top 4, opposite of top 4 teams who have 52%. So as long as you are top 4 worst, your "winning "odds are same.

Whole argument becomes even more silly knowing Magic last year had 3rd worst record and team that drafted ahead of them won 6 more games. Things get even more silly if in hindsight you figure that Magic could just as easly have Gordon,Vuc & maybe even Evan and still draft Franz and keep Fultz,Isaac, Cole, Okeke.

Pacers team , or whatever was left from it ( 3 nba players deep today, multiple tanking trades ,taking on players with broken knees, traded allstar away, multiple undrafted rookies in rotation, taking fly on Jalen Smith, former 10# pick who didn't play serious basketball...ever) shouldn't be measuring stick for Magic today. We are two years into a rebuild, Pacers are 2 weeks.

[KillMonger]

The 3 odds on favorites are where they are from tanking (Suns, Warriors, 76ers). Where did this narrative come from?

Mostly because the odds have changed. They're not wrong but there is still very much an advantage to ending up with the worst record possible.

The three best records in the NBA currently were teams that got most of their top players from tanking (Suns, Grizz, Warriors).

In fact, all three of these teams picked top 2 in the last 4 years.

if only this draft was stronger

[drsd]

Not sure how Cole looked in the first half but what I've seen from him in the 2nd half has been lacking.

Anthony is doing his part to promote Fultz to the starting line-up!


..

[pepe1991]

The 3 odds on favorites are where they are from tanking (Suns, Warriors, 76ers). Where did this narrative come from?

Mostly because the odds have changed. They're not wrong but there is still very much an advantage to ending up with the worst record possible.

The three best records in the NBA currently were teams that got most of their top players from tanking (Suns, Grizz, Warriors).

In fact, all three of these teams picked top 2 in the last 4 years.

That's revision of history.

Suns are not as good without Ayton but he is not their top 2 best player. Matter of fact when he was hurt, they were doing same stuff by replacing him with Biyombo out of all people and still won games.

Warriors didn't tank for Curry (29-53) and did especially not for Klay ( 36-46 record). Two players they recived with worst records they had in last 15 years are Ekpe Udoh (26-56) and James Wiseman ( 15-50).

Morant is transending talent, hands down. HOWEVER, Memphis did not tank for him. They had 33-49 record. By today's format, that's 4 games away from playin tournament.
So Morant joined team with Valancuinas, Jackson jr, Diollion Brooks, they added Jae Crowder,Solomon Hill, Dieng... It was never situation where team was worthless for Ja Morant and team for fact was NOT worthless after adding him.


Edwards is helping his team win games now as 1# pick. But HOWEVER, Minessota drafted first overall pick THREE TIMES IN 6 YEARS and still is yet to pass first round of playoffs since 2004. On top of that , they have 2 years of Town ( summer 2024) when he is unrestricted FA and will probably walk.
Zion is another player who was 1# pick and who's team had incredible luck with ping pong balls. But much like it's case with Minessota, they never builted anything sustainable nor achived anything, despite drafting guys like Zion, Anthony Davis and trading for guys like Lonzo and Igram and now McCullum.

[Ducklett]

Mostly because the odds have changed. They're not wrong but there is still very much an advantage to ending up with the worst record possible.

The three best records in the NBA currently were teams that got most of their top players from tanking (Suns, Grizz, Warriors).

In fact, all three of these teams picked top 2 in the last 4 years.

That's revision of history.

Suns are not as good without Ayton but he is not their top 2 best player. Matter of fact when he was hurt, they were doing same stuff by replacing him with Biyombo out of all people and still won games.

Warriors didn't tank for Curry (29-53) and did especially not for Klay ( 36-46 record). Two players they recived with worst records they had in last 15 years are Ekpe Udoh (26-56) and James Wiseman ( 15-50).

Morant is transending talent, hands down. HOWEVER, Memphis did not tank for him. They had 33-49 record. By today's format, that's 4 games away from playin tournament.
So Morant joined team with Valancuinas, Jackson jr, Diollion Brooks, they added Jae Crowder,Solomon Hill, Dieng... It was never situation where team was worthless for Ja Morant and team for fact was NOT worthless after adding him.


Edwards is helping his team win games now as 1# pick. But HOWEVER, Minessota drafted first overall pick THREE TIMES IN 6 YEARS and still is yet to pass first round of playoffs since 2004. On top of that , they have 2 years of Town ( summer 2024) when he is unrestricted FA and will probably walk.
Zion is another player who was 1# pick and who's team had incredible luck with ping pong balls. But much like it's case with Minessota, they never builted anything sustainable nor achived anything, despite drafting guys like Zion, Anthony Davis and trading for guys like Lonzo and Igram and now McCullum.

When the Suns draft Booker at 13, in the years following they picked 4 twice and 1. That isn't a team that is trying to win.

When the Warriors got Curry, the years previous they had picked 3, 5, 11 twice, 9 twice, 7 (Curry), 6, 11 (Klay), and after 7 before they started winning. Sounds like a team that was really pushing to win and just had a down year to pick Curry. And we are a year removed from their own pick being 2.

The Grizz got lucky, but I don't think they or anyone expect to go from JJJ at 4 to getting the next superstar in the next year. They were most assuredly not pushing for a real playoff until Ja walked through that door.

By the way, I am not the one arguing that tanking always works, it doesnt. The Magic tank (while it went sideways because we never committed to an actual strategy either way) has been a total mess. Some teams, like the Wolves, also never get it right. Saying tanking never works is just factually wrong.

[Ralof]

just one thing about the game: 8 minutes of Fultz and you already understand what a superior talent is.

guy always will have his limitations,his problems,his carrier remains a question mark,but man,the natural way he plays is by far way better than 90% of nba players.

you clearly understand what scouts seen in him at the draft.

[BlueBalls]

Fultz looked great. Enjoyed seeing him again.

[JBSouthpaw]

would we be significantly better this year if we would have anyone taken ahead of Suggs??
I'd probably say Mobley, I'd love to see him and WCJ next to each other.
I don't think the other 3 (Cade, Green & Barnes) would have moved our wins that much.

Just like 1 player we draft this summer, won't move the needle THAT much. Our major growth will come with the players currently on the roster.
Franz
Suggs
WCJ
Cole
Okeke
RJ
Fultz
JI


Those 8 players, if they each can grow their own game to help the team be better by 2% each, that is an 16% better team next year.
All those players should be better next year than this year. Some jumps will be bigger than others.
JI is the senior person at 24 y.o., just coming into his true prime.

[ibraheim718]

There is always same talk lol

When we win portion of fans hate it because it will ruin tank , others yell how it doesn't matter
When we lose portion of people hate it because tanking doesn't work , others are happy

This is most unsuprising win possible. Against team without 3 starters ( Turner, Brogdon, TJ Warren ) and 3 backups ( Lance, Rubio & TJM) , with Duerte on heavy min restrictions ( game time decision injury ) after they traded whole team away against Magic who now have 100% healthy roster minus guy who writes books, while being well rested since it's just Magic second game after ASG.
We will probably beat them again in two days.

And who just beat the Celtics who are one of the hotter teams in the league right now.

Celtics played Nets on February 25 on a road, flew to Detroit and played them after 17-18 hours, than flew to Indiana and played them on third night of back to back to backs.
They were simply drained, Tatum & Brown played over 100 min. And Celtics are top heavy, their bench is pretty poor so they couldn't rely on it.

Actually pippy the Celtics played the nets on the 24th.

And do me a favor can you rummage through the schedule and pull up the flight logs and explain why the Celtics on the back end of a back to back and three games in 4 nights were able to beat the heat by thirty points? Thanks bud