''I don't like the guy personally said one New York player about Wilt I wouldn't vote for him for anything.
Bill Russell king of the court page 113.
I don't blame the New York players for hating Wilt as he dropped 100 on them and flat-out embarrassed them out throughout the season.
See examples below.
Also, even the Refs and scorekeepers were hating on Wilt during this season.
I also find it funny that people don't acknowledge how much the NBA tried to stop Wilt's dominance.
In fact the refs often sided with the opposing team against Wilt because they felt that he was simply too dominating.
And what made it even more amazing is that he had 3-to 4 guys collapsing and getting rough on him whenever he touched the ball and he never got angry.
Wilt Chamberlain grabbed and/or impeded — no fouls called.
"I would talk to Wilt about all the players pounding on him. Sometimes, he said he didn't notice it--he was so strong.
But I also believe that there were two sets of rules.
By that, I mean because Wilt was so strong, the officials let the man guarding him get away with more--almost trying to equalize the game.
I also believe that Wilt just took it because he didn't want to get thrown out and because it had always been like that with him.
But I'd watch it and I'd get mad. It takes me a while to get my temper going, but when it does--lookout.
I'd see what the other players were doing to Wilt and what the officials were allowing, and I'd get more upset than if it were happening to me.
So I jumped in there. It wasn't that Wilt couldn't defend himself. If he ever got really hot, he'd kill people, so he let things pass.
But I didn't have to worry about that. I was strong for my size, but I was not about to do anything like the kind of damage would."--Al Attles, Tall Tales (by Terry Pluto) p. 242
Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking him.
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Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking him.
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coastalmarker99
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Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking him.
Reggie Jackson is amazing and a killer in the clutch that's all.
Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
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coastalmarker99
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Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
It is clear that the 1962 MVP was the biggest award robbery in the history of sports.
How else can you explain Wilt being voted first-team all NBA over Russell yet not being voted the MVP.
In these Russell-Wilt discussions, it is fascinating that the players tended to be more favourable to Russell, while the sportswriters, who voted for the All-NBA teams, were definitely pro-Wilt.
In their 10 seasons in the league together, Russell and Wilt each won four MVPs, with Russell coming in 2nd once, 3rd twice, 4th twice, and not in the voting in 67-68.
Meanwhile, Wilt came in 2nd twice, 4th once, 5th once, 7th once, and not at all in the 68-69 balloting.
In the All-NBA voting in their ten years in the league together, Chamberlain waxed Russell by a 7-2 margin, with the other always coming in second, except in the 68-69 season.
As you can see, the voting discrepancies were considerable between the players and the writers.
So then, who was more "right?"
Wilt himself brought it up before in his books and I wholeheartedly agree with him...
That there was a strong resentment towards Wilt and his crushing domination of his peers in his 14 seasons in the league.
How else do you explain these oddities?
In Wilt's rookie season, he carried what had been a last-place roster, to a 49-26 record. In the process, he just obliterated many records.
He averaged 37.6 ppg, 27.0 RPG, and shot .46.1 from the field (which would be the only time in his career in which he would fail to shoot at least .50.6 from the floor.
Meanwhile, Russell led his Celtics to a 59-16 record, which was a solid improvement over their '59 record of 52-20.
And in that '60 season, Russell averaged 18.0 ppg, 24.0 RPG, and shot a career-high .46.7 from the floor. In the MVP voting, Chamberlain won by a huge margin.
Two years later, in 61-62, Wilt had a historic season.
He took that same basic roster, but which was now older and worse, to a 49-31 record, or a similar record as to what they had had in his rookie season.
He averaged a staggering 50.4 ppg, 25.7 rpg, and shot 50.6 from the floor.
Russell's Celtics went 60-20, which was actually a slight decrease from their 59-60 record, and in the process, he put up nearly identical numbers as he did in '60, averaging 18.9 ppg, 23.6 rpg, and shooting .45.7 from the field.
How did the MVP voting go? Now it was Russell winning by a huge margin, and Wilt coming in a distant second
(in fact, Oscar had more first-place votes than Wilt did.) Again, though, take a close look at both seasons ('60 and '62.) Russell's Celtics put up almost identical records, and his stats in both were nearly the same.
Wilt's Warriors had almost identical records, but, Wilt had a far more dominating season.
Just what changed in the voting, then? And, as I alluded to earlier, Wilt was voted first-team All-NBA over Russell by the writers.
How else can you explain Wilt being voted first-team all NBA over Russell yet not being voted the MVP.
In these Russell-Wilt discussions, it is fascinating that the players tended to be more favourable to Russell, while the sportswriters, who voted for the All-NBA teams, were definitely pro-Wilt.
In their 10 seasons in the league together, Russell and Wilt each won four MVPs, with Russell coming in 2nd once, 3rd twice, 4th twice, and not in the voting in 67-68.
Meanwhile, Wilt came in 2nd twice, 4th once, 5th once, 7th once, and not at all in the 68-69 balloting.
In the All-NBA voting in their ten years in the league together, Chamberlain waxed Russell by a 7-2 margin, with the other always coming in second, except in the 68-69 season.
As you can see, the voting discrepancies were considerable between the players and the writers.
So then, who was more "right?"
Wilt himself brought it up before in his books and I wholeheartedly agree with him...
That there was a strong resentment towards Wilt and his crushing domination of his peers in his 14 seasons in the league.
How else do you explain these oddities?
In Wilt's rookie season, he carried what had been a last-place roster, to a 49-26 record. In the process, he just obliterated many records.
He averaged 37.6 ppg, 27.0 RPG, and shot .46.1 from the field (which would be the only time in his career in which he would fail to shoot at least .50.6 from the floor.
Meanwhile, Russell led his Celtics to a 59-16 record, which was a solid improvement over their '59 record of 52-20.
And in that '60 season, Russell averaged 18.0 ppg, 24.0 RPG, and shot a career-high .46.7 from the floor. In the MVP voting, Chamberlain won by a huge margin.
Two years later, in 61-62, Wilt had a historic season.
He took that same basic roster, but which was now older and worse, to a 49-31 record, or a similar record as to what they had had in his rookie season.
He averaged a staggering 50.4 ppg, 25.7 rpg, and shot 50.6 from the floor.
Russell's Celtics went 60-20, which was actually a slight decrease from their 59-60 record, and in the process, he put up nearly identical numbers as he did in '60, averaging 18.9 ppg, 23.6 rpg, and shooting .45.7 from the field.
How did the MVP voting go? Now it was Russell winning by a huge margin, and Wilt coming in a distant second
(in fact, Oscar had more first-place votes than Wilt did.) Again, though, take a close look at both seasons ('60 and '62.) Russell's Celtics put up almost identical records, and his stats in both were nearly the same.
Wilt's Warriors had almost identical records, but, Wilt had a far more dominating season.
Just what changed in the voting, then? And, as I alluded to earlier, Wilt was voted first-team All-NBA over Russell by the writers.
Reggie Jackson is amazing and a killer in the clutch that's all.
Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
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Dutchball97
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Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
Is looking up obscure Wilt stuff your fulltime job? I never see you do anything else lol.
Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
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PistolPeteJR
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Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
One of the things that I think many fans are guilty of is simply sweeping Wilt under the rug to a significant extent because it's just easier that way.
We acknowledge his gaudy stats but most don't try and spin their heads around them because it's just easier.
It's very difficult to fathom a specimen like Wilt and because most never saw him play live, it's just much easier to plead ignorance to a large extent, list him in our ATG top-10 lists, but not really give him much thought as it pertains to where he stacks on that list, choosing instead to place him where we "FEEL" he belongs in comparison to other players that we have a better time wrapping our minds around.
Russell is the exception here, but he won, so we simply see winning vs losing as black and white and get into the trap of oversimplifying things.
FWIW, I am not taking a shot at Russell nor am I saying Wilt is the GOAT. I'm saying many of us are guilty of not taking Wilt as seriously as we ought to, but that part of it is because it's very difficult to do so and wrap our minds around him.
We acknowledge his gaudy stats but most don't try and spin their heads around them because it's just easier.
It's very difficult to fathom a specimen like Wilt and because most never saw him play live, it's just much easier to plead ignorance to a large extent, list him in our ATG top-10 lists, but not really give him much thought as it pertains to where he stacks on that list, choosing instead to place him where we "FEEL" he belongs in comparison to other players that we have a better time wrapping our minds around.
Russell is the exception here, but he won, so we simply see winning vs losing as black and white and get into the trap of oversimplifying things.
FWIW, I am not taking a shot at Russell nor am I saying Wilt is the GOAT. I'm saying many of us are guilty of not taking Wilt as seriously as we ought to, but that part of it is because it's very difficult to do so and wrap our minds around him.
Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
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Jalexjsmithj
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Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
Dutchball97 wrote:Is looking up obscure Wilt stuff your fulltime job? I never see you do anything else lol.
Why are you hating on a guy putting high quality posts up?
Bill Simmons did a brief revisit on this debate on a pod while he did a full deep dive in his book.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
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coastalmarker99
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Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
PistolPeteJR wrote:One of the things that I think many fans are guilty of is simply sweeping Wilt under the rug to a significant extent because it's just easier that way.
We acknowledge his gaudy stats but most don't try and spin their heads around them because it's just easier.
It's very difficult to fathom a specimen like Wilt and because most never saw him play live, it's just much easier to plead ignorance to a large extent, list him in our ATG top-10 lists, but not really give him much thought as it pertains to where he stacks on that list, choosing instead to place him where we "FEEL" he belongs in comparison to other players that we have a better time wrapping our minds around.
Russell is the exception here, but he won, so we simply see winning vs losing as black and white and get into the trap of oversimplifying things.
FWIW, I am not taking a shot at Russell nor am I saying Wilt is the GOAT. I'm saying many of us are guilty of not taking Wilt as seriously as we ought to, but that part of it is because it's very difficult to do so and wrap our minds around him.
His numbers are so mythical that people can't take him seriously.
It should be noted if you take Wilt out of the equation there have only been 30 to 40 games of 60+ points in Nba history.
As (Wilt had 32 by himself.)
Or only 28 30-30 games (Chamberlain had 103 on his own.)
Or only six 40-30 games (Chamberlain had 55.)
And If you take Wilt and his four highest-scoring seasons out from Nba history then MJ's 37.1 ppg would be the all-time record, and James Harden who plays today would be next at 36.1 ppg along with Rick Barry at 35.6 ppg then Kobe at 35.4 ppg.
BTW, Kareem's 34.8 ppg in '72 (also in the Chamberlain-era), is 10th all-time, and Baylor's 60-61 season of 34.8 ppg is 11th.
Therefore if you strike Chamberlain from the record book the numbers are far more normal across all eras.
Wilt is the greatest outlier in NBA history as he was just so much better than everybody else as an individual player.
Reggie Jackson is amazing and a killer in the clutch that's all.
Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
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hauntedcomputer
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Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
Dutchball97 wrote:Is looking up obscure Wilt stuff your fulltime job? I never see you do anything else lol.
Yeah, dude, why not start a Russell Westbrook thread to shake things up?
Seriously, it's good to see some real basketball in here once in a while instead of girly gossip. Back then players hated you and wanted to beat you, not join your team and your agency and your off-court brand. If there were a redraft of all players in history, Wilt would be the #1 pick and it's not even a debate.
+++
Schadenfreude is undefeated.
Schadenfreude is undefeated.
Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
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Dutchball97
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Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
Jalexjsmithj wrote:Dutchball97 wrote:Is looking up obscure Wilt stuff your fulltime job? I never see you do anything else lol.
Why are you hating on a guy putting high quality posts up?
Bill Simmons did a brief revisit on this debate on a pod while he did a full deep dive in his book.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This is hating now? That's sensitive as hell lmao.
Anyway you must've not been around for coastelmarker's glory days on the PC board where he posted a new Wilt thread every other day. Nearly always about how Bill Russell didn't deserve his accolades, trying to bring him down to prop Wilt up. Wilt only got 9 first place votes compared to Russell's 51 and you believe that is entirely because players disliked Wilt? Did they conveniently forget to hate him when he won the MVP in his rookie year or when he got 3 straight from 66-68? This is dumb.
Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
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Lalouie
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Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
players today would,,,,,"wilt",,,under the pressure of that kind of bias.
and yes i thought that "wilt" ^^ part up myself - with no help
and yes i thought that "wilt" ^^ part up myself - with no help
Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
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Mazter
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Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
hauntedcomputer wrote:Dutchball97 wrote:Is looking up obscure Wilt stuff your fulltime job? I never see you do anything else lol.
Yeah, dude, why not start a Russell Westbrook thread to shake things up?
Seriously, it's good to see some real basketball in here once in a while instead of girly gossip. Back then players hated you and wanted to beat you, not join your team and your agency and your off-court brand. If there were a redraft of all players in history, Wilt would be the #1 pick and it's not even a debate.
Play off record till 1968:
Russell vs Baylor/West 5-0
Russell vs Wilt 6-1
1968: Wilt joins Baylor and West in LA
1969: Russell beats Baylor/West + Wilt once again in the NBA Finals
Yeah...players never joined in the sixties.
Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
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coastalmarker99
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Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
Mazter wrote:hauntedcomputer wrote:Dutchball97 wrote:Is looking up obscure Wilt stuff your fulltime job? I never see you do anything else lol.
Yeah, dude, why not start a Russell Westbrook thread to shake things up?
Seriously, it's good to see some real basketball in here once in a while instead of girly gossip. Back then players hated you and wanted to beat you, not join your team and your agency and your off-court brand. If there were a redraft of all players in history, Wilt would be the #1 pick and it's not even a debate.
Play off record till 1968:
Russell vs Baylor/West 5-0
Russell vs Wilt 6-1
1968: Wilt joins Baylor and West in LA
1969: Russell beats Baylor/West + Wilt once again in the NBA Finals
Yeah...players never joined in the sixties.
Wilt was traded to the Lakers and had he gotten his way with the 76ers by becoming their player-coach as he wanted to be after Alex left.
Plus the 25% of the 76ers franchise that he and the late Richman had agreed to.
He would have never become a Laker.
And for the record Wilt himself said before he died that one of his biggest regrets in life was leaving that 76ers team that loved him as he left multiple rings on the table.
Reggie Jackson is amazing and a killer in the clutch that's all.
Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
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rzzzzz
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Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
It depends on what you value. Spectacle, individual achievement, you gotta go with Wilt every time. Winning titles? That’s all Russell was about. In college, going against the constraints of historic racism, leading an Olympic team, and then the pros where he led a roster of good complementary players, who never won a title without him on the floor, to spectacular success. Which maybe why players throughout the league valued him so much. But nobody with a memory of it will argue against the notion of Wilt’s ‘67 team being a top candidate for GOAT. And no doubt Wilt has more gravitas than West, who may well have been the best shot of all time. (Imagine what he could have done with the 3 point line.) Glad he got his ring. And the Logo. And reputation for front office savvy.
Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
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-Sammy-
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Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
Lalouie wrote:players today would,,,,,"wilt",,,under the pressure of that kind of bias.
and yes i thought that "wilt" ^^ part up myself - with no help
It's always good to see RealGMers Russell up some clever lines.
Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
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Rastas
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Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
Wilts 61-62 season is the GOAT NBA individual season .
Really can't see anyone on the horizon getting close to it.
Not winning the MVP that year showed the Pettiness of his peers and a big reason for why players no longer vote for that award.
Really can't see anyone on the horizon getting close to it.
Not winning the MVP that year showed the Pettiness of his peers and a big reason for why players no longer vote for that award.
Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
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LAL1947
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Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
This threads reminds me of how Kobe Bryant was robbed of 2-3 MVPs too.
1) 2002-03, when they gave it to boring but likable Timmy Duncan instead of the brash, cocky new kid on the block who had taken the league by storm... scoring 40+ points in 9 straight games, 35+ in 13 straight games... because "he has Shaq". The league and media were also biased against the Lakers winning all team trophies at that time, so were looking for opportunities to spread some of the individual awards around.
2) 2005-06, when they gave it to Steve Nash because of the rape case that had been looming over Kobe's head... despite him averaging 35 PPG and making All-NBA First Defense... first player in the modern NBA to do so.
3) 2006-07, when they gave it to Dirk Novitzki for the same reason... despite Kobe averaging 31.6 PPG and making All-NBA First Defense again.
1) 2002-03, when they gave it to boring but likable Timmy Duncan instead of the brash, cocky new kid on the block who had taken the league by storm... scoring 40+ points in 9 straight games, 35+ in 13 straight games... because "he has Shaq". The league and media were also biased against the Lakers winning all team trophies at that time, so were looking for opportunities to spread some of the individual awards around.
2) 2005-06, when they gave it to Steve Nash because of the rape case that had been looming over Kobe's head... despite him averaging 35 PPG and making All-NBA First Defense... first player in the modern NBA to do so.
3) 2006-07, when they gave it to Dirk Novitzki for the same reason... despite Kobe averaging 31.6 PPG and making All-NBA First Defense again.
Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
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xdrta+
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Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
"Tom Gola, driving like a lady motorist in a South Jersey traffic circle..."
Sportswriters were definitely more colorful back in those days.
Sportswriters were definitely more colorful back in those days.
Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
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Ryoga Hibiki
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Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
LAL1947 wrote:This threads reminds me of how Kobe Bryant was robbed of 2-3 MVPs too.
1) 2002-03, when they gave it to boring but likable Timmy Duncan instead of the brash, cocky new kid on the block who had taken the league by storm... scoring 40+ points in 9 straight games, 35+ in 13 straight games... because "he has Shaq". The league and media were also biased against the Lakers winning all team trophies at that time, so were looking for opportunities to spread some of the individual awards around.
2) 2005-06, when they gave it to Steve Nash because of the rape case that had been looming over Kobe's head... despite him averaging 35 PPG and making All-NBA First Defense... first player in the modern NBA to do so.
3) 2006-07, when they gave it to Dirk Novitzki for the same reason... despite Kobe averaging 31.6 PPG and making All-NBA First Defense again.
yeah, it reminds me the same dumb narrative with people falling for crazy scoring stats without looking at the team context
Слава Украине!
Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
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ty 4191
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Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
Where does Wilt's 61-62 rank among worst MVP voting (choice) of all time?
It's fairly ridiculous that he only got 9 first place votes to Russell's 51. And got buried in MVP voting, overall.
It's fairly ridiculous that he only got 9 first place votes to Russell's 51. And got buried in MVP voting, overall.
Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
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KrAzY3
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Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
I'm a fan of Wilt, he was an incredibly athlete. However, if he truly was unstoppable he would have won more than two championships in his career. So, I think there's a little more to the story of Russell vs. Wilt than just bias. Wilt was fixated on statistics and Russell was fixated on winning. This lead to some of the bias...
Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
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xdrta+
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Re: Here is evidence of the fact Wilt was robbed of the 1962 MVP when he averaged 50PPG due to other players disliking h
KrAzY3 wrote:I'm a fan of Wilt, he was an incredibly athlete. However, if he truly was unstoppable he would have won more than two championships in his career. So, I think there's a little more to the story of Russell vs. Wilt than just bias. Wilt was fixated on statistics and Russell was fixated on winning. This lead to some of the bias...
Overlooking the fact that basketball is a team game.