The New Improved 2021-2022 Trade/Offseason Thread

[skywalker33]

I can't see a contender paying luxury tax drafting two rookies (one top10).

Don't most contenders pay the luxuxry tax ?? Getting good cheap players is the best way to avoid paying the tax, not adding more salaray

I can't see the Nuggets trading away Monte, he is too important, a life insurance in case Murray sets back with extremely friendly contract (and I can't see the Knicks trading away a top10 pick for him).

Monte is a great guy, a solid player but he's also an asset. However, keeping him keeps Bones buried on the bench or put out of position as a small SG at best. Monte's trade value isn't going to get any higher than it currently is right now. Also, the Nuggets have been grooming Bones to take over the backup PG, he's been getting a lot of handles at that position lately.

I am far away from being a Barton fan, but I don't trade him for KCP for the sake of a SRP.

Why not ?? they're pretty much the same player and KCP makes less and only has a partially guaranteed contract next year, making him movable again or cut him for the cap savings. And you say for the sake of a SRP yet Morris was a late SRP, we draft pretty well, make use of that skill

I can't see the Nuggets trading for an expiring rookie they can't pay (Reddish).

Well, his 2022-23 option was picked up so you'd have one more year at a very reasonable $6M. You'd get a year to see what he could bring or trade him for another asset.

I can't see the Nuggets waiving or stretching 7M from Kemba when championship window is fully open.

While I'm no fan of Walker's either, this is probably where the incentive for NYK to trade that late lottery pick, the Knicks are just sitting him right now until they CAN trade him. And $7M (actually $9M) stretched is chump change to NBA teams

I would trade Barton + 2022 FRP for Lou Dort (45Mx3).
I would offer Gary Harris T-MLE and a minimum contract to Dozier as backup SF.

Like getting Gharris back as another solid defender, but OKC will probably get better offers for Dort (getting both Harris and Dort would be redundant IMO, they're the same player .

I would find a destination for Jamychal without adding a SRP.
I would renew Forbes at a reasonable price (same as his current salary), otherwise pick Rivers for the minimum.

A bit too optimistic here, Green hasn't been playing worth his contract until recently. All his stats are down, he's getting another year older, you may have to add a SRP to move him. Agree, IF you can do it w/o a pick. And just to be clear, it was suggest moving JaM Green FOR a SRP not along with a SRP, much more realistic.

And you really think Forbes isn't going to want a raise ??? Exploring free agency is all about "Mo Money", not the same amt so I could see something close depending on the market.

[ty 4191]

I know this is preemptive, but, what are people's thoughts here on Jokic being traded away after next season?

Is it likely to happen?

Can the Nuggets continue to afford him?

What if they continue to "fail" in the playoffs? Will Jokic demand a trade?

[skywalker33]

This absolutely. Monte isn't going anywhere and certainly not for some Knicks throwaways, not that the Knicks would trade their FRP anyway. SRPs have close to zero value to the team that has championship aspirations and KCP is certainly not the answer to anything

When will Morris' trade value ever be higher, he's shown he can be a solid PG in the league and with Murray coming back and Bones being groomed to take over the backup PG position, to say Monte isn't going anywhere is as much speculation as this whole conversation (we just agree to disagree here). I see how the Nuggets usually wait too long to strike when trading "one of their own" so they may indeed keep him but I can see that being yet another huge mistake. As for the Knicks, they can use a solid PG, they haven't had one they can trust in a long while, Morris can fit that bill. And looking at this draft, there really isn't a lot of good PG's to choose from there.

[skywalker33]

I know this is preemptive, but, what are people's thoughts here on Jokic being traded away after next season?

Is it likely to happen?

Can the Nuggets continue to afford him?

What if they continue to "fail" in the playoffs? Will Jokic demand a trade?

Jokic has already stated he'd like to spend his career here in DEN, don't see any way he's traded unless he demands it, you're listening to posters from other clubs who want him, probably for cheap too. They're just trying to stir the pot, like dumbasses

[ty 4191]

I know this is preemptive, but, what are people's thoughts here on Jokic being traded away after next season?

Is it likely to happen?

Can the Nuggets continue to afford him?

What if they continue to "fail" in the playoffs? Will Jokic demand a trade?

Jokic has already stated he'd like to spend his career here in DEN, don't see any way he's traded unless he demands it, you're listening to posters from other clubs who want him, probably for cheap too. They're just trying to stir the pot, like dumbasses

That's excellent news!!!

What's our outlook for the playoffs if Murray and MPJ both return, healthy?

[Richard Miller]

This absolutely. Monte isn't going anywhere and certainly not for some Knicks throwaways, not that the Knicks would trade their FRP anyway. SRPs have close to zero value to the team that has championship aspirations and KCP is certainly not the answer to anything

When will Morris' trade value ever be higher, he's shown he can be a solid PG in the league and with Murray coming back and Bones being groomed to take over the backup PG position, to say Monte isn't going anywhere is as much speculation as this whole conversation (we just agree to disagree here). I see how the Nuggets usually wait too long to strike when trading "one of their own" so they may indeed keep him but I can see that being yet another huge mistake.

It's like the Family Guy, "A boat's a boat, but a mystery box could be anything. It could even be a boat". We don't even know when Jamal is coming back or in what form, doubt he's going to be truly 100% anytime soon, maybe at some point the next season.

Bones is being groomed, but doesn't mean he's ready (not even completely healthy atm), and certainly not playoff-ready. Monte has played 45 playoff games (and counting) and he's on a very friendly contract, I'd rather get max contribution from him this season and the next one than draft someone who at best may contribute something like three years from now or at worst may be the new Mudiay/Lyles/Lydon.

[skywalker33]

This absolutely. Monte isn't going anywhere and certainly not for some Knicks throwaways, not that the Knicks would trade their FRP anyway. SRPs have close to zero value to the team that has championship aspirations and KCP is certainly not the answer to anything

When will Morris' trade value ever be higher, he's shown he can be a solid PG in the league and with Murray coming back and Bones being groomed to take over the backup PG position, to say Monte isn't going anywhere is as much speculation as this whole conversation (we just agree to disagree here). I see how the Nuggets usually wait too long to strike when trading "one of their own" so they may indeed keep him but I can see that being yet another huge mistake.

It's like the Family Guy, "A boat's a boat, but a mystery box could be anything. It could even be a boat". We don't even know when Jamal is coming back or in what form, doubt he's going to be truly 100% anytime soon, maybe at some point the next season.

Bones is being groomed, but doesn't mean he's ready (not even completely healthy atm), and certainly not playoff-ready. Monte has played 45 playoff games (and counting) and he's on a very friendly contract, I'd rather get max contribution from him this season and the next one than draft someone who at best may contribute something like three years from now or at worst may be the new Mudiay/Lyles/Lydon.

Well, this proposition is for the offseason since Monte can't be traded until then. And honestly, I think the medical staff, coaches, etc are gonna know if Jamal can be back ready by then, ACL's usually take 12-18mo to get back to 100% (18mo will be in Oct 2022 and the start of next season), from clips I've seen so far that's a bet I'd take especially while MM's value is at its peak right now. And given Malone is already playing Bones over 17mpg in his rookie season (unheard of by Malone, right ?), yet another strong indication he's closer than you prognosticate. I agree he still has some rookie mistakes, but how can we expect him to grow if we don't give him PT sitting behind Jamal and Morris ??

And as for Monte's contract, being team friendly makes him even more tradable IMO. We can utilize that cap money to sign Cousins, Forbes or ?? while having an even more team-friendly rookie deal from our talented 2nd-yr backup PG. And It's not like we can't play Forbes as a PG, so there is depth as well.

[Richard Miller]

Well, this proposition is for the offseason since Monte can't be traded until then. And honestly, I think the medical staff, coaches, etc are gonna know if Jamal can be back ready by then, ACL's usually take 12-18mo to get back to 100% (18mo will be in Oct 2022 and the start of next season), from clips I've seen so far that's a bet I'd take especially while MM's value is at its peak right now. And given Malone is already playing Bones over 17mpg in his rookie season (unheard of by Malone, right ?), yet another strong indication he's closer than you prognosticate. I agree he still has some rookie mistakes, but how can we expect him to grow if we don't give him PT sitting behind Jamal and Morris ??

Medical people can clear him and that's it, nobody can say what level of play is he going to bring. Just because he's completely healed doesn't necessarily mean he'll automatically return to being 20+ ppg guy night in night out.

Bones is here for the long run, atm he has zero playoff experience and you can bet he's going to be targeted in the playoffs like no tomorrow, we've seen how it went with MPJ and Bones might be in for as bad or worse treatment. Plus his ankles are still wobbly at best. Trade Monte and you could easily end up with struggling Jamal + Facu/Howard (if any of those two is even there the next season). Imo you don't try to trade Monte until maybe his final year of the contract, unless a clear upgrade is coming back (like Gary+RJ for Gordon). FRP is not that.

[skywalker33]

Medical people can clear him and that's it, nobody can say what level of play is he going to bring. Just because he's completely healed doesn't necessarily mean he'll automatically return to being 20+ ppg guy night in night out.

Well, has ANYBODY indicated they expect him to be right where he was before the injury ?? But given the time and medical improvements (I remember when an ACL injury was the end of a career), he could just as easily be a 30+ point scorer because he's well-rested, it's clear you're the pessimist to my optimist on this issue. And the Nuggets have left it up to Jamal on when he returns, not the medical staff or coaches.

Bones is here for the long run, atm he has zero playoff experience and you can bet he's going to be targeted in the playoffs like no tomorrow, we've seen how it went with MPJ and Bones might be in for as bad or worse treatment. Plus his ankles are still wobbly at best. Trade Monte and you could easily end up with struggling Jamal + Facu/Howard (if any of those two is even there the next season). Imo you don't try to trade Monte until maybe his final year of the contract unless a clear upgrade is coming back (like Gary+RJ for Gordon). FRP is not that.

Tell me ONE rookie who HAS playoff experience ??? And any good coach will go after a rookie, just smart coaching. But let's deflate your argument here, we CAN'T trade Morris until after the playoffs, IF Jamal comes back, Morris will return to the bench. Not saying I want to trade Morris because I don't like him or he's a crap player but rather there are only SO MANY point guard minutes available, why hold on to someone who is keeping the guy with higher potential on the bench while you lessen the that guys value, strike while the iron is hot. How do you think this team grew to its current status ??? We draft well, THAT is our strength of our FO. FRP do have value, it would also allow us the freedom to make other moves, which we don't currently have.

And let's see, if Jamal and MPJ (both looking like they'll return to the lineup prior to the playoffs) return, betting Bones will NOT be in the playoff rotation, how long do you want that to continue, two more years when Morris contract is up ???

[Richard Miller]

Well, has ANYBODY indicated they expect him to be right where he was before the injury ?? But given the time and medical improvements (I remember when an ACL injury was the end of a career), he could just as easily be a 30+ point scorer because he's well-rested, it's clear you're the pessimist to my optimist on this issue. And the Nuggets have left it up to Jamal on when he returns, not the medical staff or coaches.

He was never a 30+ point scorer in the first place (ofc he had his nights, but his career average has so far been around 20 ppg), I trust he will be back to his old self and he can be better, I'm just not an optimist it's going to happen right off the bat. Maybe not before mid-2022/23 season.

Tell me ONE rookie who HAS playoff experience ??? And any good coach will go after a rookie, just smart coaching.

Aye, that was kinda the whole point, nobody is going to win a championship with rookie(s) playing major minutes.

But let's deflate your argument here, we CAN'T trade Morris until after the playoffs, IF Jamal comes back, Morris will return to the bench. Not saying I want to trade Morris because I don't like him or he's a crap player but rather there are only SO MANY point guard minutes available, why hold on to someone who is keeping the guy with higher potential on the bench while you lessen the that guys value, strike while the iron is hot. How do you think this team grew to its current status ???

The team grew to its current status by not having any expectations, not even being a playoff team for years, so young players playing a ton of minutes was never an issue, on the contrary, it was desirable. That time is (imo) gone, their window is right now, they need all the guys they can get who can contribute right now. Bones is likely to end up a better player than Monte, but he isn't now, and I don't think he's better than him the next season either.

[The Rebel]

I can't see a contender paying luxury tax drafting two rookies (one top10).

Maybe you should go look at some rosters, a lot of contenders have rookie deals at the end of the bench, not only are rookie contracts cheaper than veteran minimums, they usually bitch less, and they have upside.

I can't see the Nuggets trading away Monte, he is too important, a life insurance in case Murray sets back with extremely friendly contract (and I can't see the Knicks trading away a top10 pick for him).

The Knicks in my example are trading the pick both to dump Kemba and to get Monte Morris, and not only do they think they would do it, that was one of the packages they reportedly were shopping at the deadline for a starting PG.

I am far away from being a Barton fan, but I don't trade him for KCP for the sake of a SRP.

Sure why would we want a better defender who is more than happy to play off the ball when we can keep Barton on a higher contract knowing that him and his just messing around is going to continue to cost us games.

I can't see the Nuggets trading for an expiring rookie they can't pay (Redish).

Why can't they pay him, and why would that ever stop the Nuggets? We sign a lot of guys to 1 year deals, this one just happens to have upside where we can get an asset for him next year for a sign and trade.

I can't see the Nuggets waiving or stretching 7M from Kemba when championship window is fully open.

You act like the Nuggets have never bought anybody out If Kemba was worth playing than why did the Knicks send him home and why did the Celtics let him walk despite needing a PG? Kemba is not worth the roster spot at this point, and the KNicks give us $5 million to buy him out than there is no way we don't.

I would trade Barton + 2022 FRP for Lou Dort (45Mx3).

Why would the Thunder do that deal? What use is Barton to them? He has no value so you are asking the Thunder to give you Dort while offering them their 4th 1st round pick this year while taking back money that they have no use for. So why wouldn't they just take the cap space and get a bad contract along with a pick better than ours?

I would offer Gary Harris T-MLE and a minimum contract to Dozier as backup SF.

Maybe we should just sign Zach Lavine for the taxpayer MLE? You and 29 other teams will offer those guys those deals, so why are they coming to Denver for less than the best offer they can get? Especially to come off the bench.

I would find a destination for Jamychal without adding a SRP.

Great, who? Who is taking JayMichael Green for free?

I would renew Forbes at a reasonable price (same as his current salary), otherwise pick Rivers for the minimum.

If you trade for Dort, sign Harris, and still have Murray, Morris, and Bones, than why would Forbes sign here? What purpose does adding 6 SGs solve?

This roster has exactly same cost as the one above.
Murray, Morris, Bones
Dort, Gary Harris, Forbes/Rivers
Gordon, Dozier, Reed
MPJ, Nnaji, Jeff Green
Jokic, Cousins, whoever minimum guy

Sure if you ignore reality and just decide that you can get whoever you like and everybody is going to be thrilled being buried on the bench, I can see why you like it. I just prefer to deal with things a lot more realistically.

[The Rebel]

I can't see a contender paying luxury tax drafting two rookies (one top10).
I can't see the Nuggets trading away Monte, he is too important, a life insurance in case Murray sets back with extremely friendly contract (and I can't see the Knicks trading away a top10 pick for him).
I am far away from being a Barton fan, but I don't trade him for KCP for the sake of a SRP.
I can't see the Nuggets trading for an expiring rookie they can't pay (Redish).

This absolutely. Monte isn't going anywhere and certainly not for some Knicks throwaways, not that the Knicks would trade their FRP anyway. SRPs have close to zero value to the team that has championship aspirations and KCP is certainly not the answer to anything.

Guess you don't pay attention to the Knicks rumors or the draft? SRPs have zero value to a team with championship aspirations? IS that a joke or are you that clueless about the team you follow? Considering we have 5 guys who were 2nd round picks including Jokic, Morris, and Barton and we have 3 guys who were even drafted, half of our team are 2nd round or worst draft guys. So you still want to argue they have no value?

A top 10 pick and a flyer on a former lotto pick is trash? Well I guess when you ignore reality and what other teams want than I can see why you guys think that, after all for that package we could get Durant, am I right?

I would trade Barton + 2022 FRP for Lou Dort (45Mx3).
I would offer Gary Harris T-MLE and a minimum contract to Dozier as backup SF.
I would find a destination for Jamychal without adding a SRP.
I would renew Forbes at a reasonable price (same as his current salary), otherwise pick Rivers for the minimum.

Not high on Dort, he's expensive and doesn't look like a Nuggets guy. Not sure what to think of Garris, he will probably have other destinations to chose from, dunno how much he wants to come back. If JMG keeps his current form and into the playoffs he may even stay - if the team as it is has a strong showing in the playoffs I think they will be looking to run it back with everyone finally/hopefully healthy.

Last time we ran back the same team our star was asking out 11 months later, you do not get better by just hoping and praying. I know you say you are a Nuggets fan, so you would think that you would know that we have been saying we will be healthy next year for the last 37 years.

As a team we have no assets outside of Morris or Bones, who at this point are redundant. Our backup SF started the season in the Gleague, our 3rd string SG was out of the league a year ago, our Backup PF has a long history of injury issues and struggles in many matchups, and our backup Center has missed most of the last 3 years injured. Not to mention that Barton is still injury prone, Murray is coming off a major injury, and now MPJ has missed most of 3 of the last 4 seasons.

[Richard Miller]

Guess you don't pay attention to the Knicks rumors or the draft? SRPs have zero value to a team with championship aspirations? IS that a joke or are you that clueless about the team you follow? Considering we have 5 guys who were 2nd round picks including Jokic, Morris, and Barton and we have 3 guys who were even drafted, half of our team are 2nd round or worst draft guys. So you still want to argue they have no value?

Yea, I mean they quite recently literally wasted 2 SRPs on McGee who didn't even play. I don't think it's very likely they draft another Jokic with a SRP, but that just me. Also I don't think they quite have time to develop another low pick since they struggle to find minutes even for Zeke. I mean do you even know what year is this and where the team is right now? Hint: not 2015

[Manolito]

This team simply needs patience. We have not seen Jokic, Murray, MPJ and Gordon's ceiling playing together. You don't burn valuable assets without knowing your roster's ceiling.

Only younger starter defensive minded SG is needed, although it would not be a drama to keep Barton (specially for locker room chemistry). We have no time to develop any other young prospect while championship window is fully open, therefore 2022 FRP should be used to improve SG position as we have very limited picks flexibility until 2024 draft day.

[Richard Miller]

This team simply needs patience. We have not seen Jokic, Murray, MPJ and Gordon's ceiling playing together. You don't burn valuable assets without knowing your roster's ceiling.

Only younger starter defensive minded SG is needed, although it would not be a drama to keep Barton (specially for locker room chemistry). We have no time to develop any other young prospect while championship window is fully open, therefore 2022 FRP should be used to improve SG position as we have very limited picks flexibility until 2024 draft day.

Agreed, if they have identified their guy (like Gordon trade), then go for it by all means, though I'd prefer somebody more experienced as starting SG - they couldn't get Jrue, but hopefully someone along those lines.

[skywalker33]

This team simply needs patience. We have not seen Jokic, Murray, MPJ and Gordon's ceiling playing together. You don't burn valuable assets without knowing your roster's ceiling.

Only younger starter defensive minded SG is needed, although it would not be a drama to keep Barton (specially for locker room chemistry). We have no time to develop any other young prospect while championship window is fully open, therefore 2022 FRP should be used to improve SG position as we have very limited picks flexibility until 2024 draft day.

They DID play together last year before Jamal was hurt, they were destroying teams like the Clips, 76ers and Hawks, they weren't even gelling yet either. As for Morris, to treat him as an irreplaceable asset is foolish, he was a late SRP that we can potentially trade for a mid-FRP while replacing him with a more dynamic, cheaper Bones Hyland, that's what smart FO's do. When Jamal returns, that late SRP will push our FRP farther down the bench and his development will get diminished because his PT will diminish, same with next year or perhaps Bones could/should push Morris farther down the bench, reducing HIS value.

And for the record, we CAN'T trade our 2022 FRP because we've traded our 2023 FRP, even heard of the Stepien Rule ????

[skywalker33]

Bones is being groomed, but doesn't mean he's ready (not even completely healthy atm), and certainly not playoff-ready. Monte has played 45 playoff games (and counting) and he's on a very friendly contract, I'd rather get max contribution from him this season and the next one than draft someone who at best may contribute something like three years from now or at worst may be the new Mudiay/Lyles/Lydon.

When you compare Morris' 36mins per game to Hylands 36 pergame you'd see Morris is solid but Hyland clearly surpasses him. While I usually dismiss the 36PER stat, it does give a more apples-to-apples comparison. And Bones is only going to get better, Morris has plateaued and never really become more than he was in his 1st year. I'd bet by next year, Morris will be playing behind Bones anyway, dropping his trade value even more. Speculating it'll take Bones 3 yrs to contribute (he's already contributing in his rookie year, much more than Morris did) is yet another stupid speculation to try and support a weak argument IMO

[Richard Miller]

Speculating it'll take Bones 3 yrs to contribute (he's already contributing in his rookie year, much more than Morris did) is yet another stupid speculation to try and support a weak argument IMO

Nope, I meant if the Nuggets trade Morris for a pick, then that drafted player isn't going to contribute anytime soon. Bones may surpass him the next season, but it's not a given, and he seems injury prone too. If Morris is traded and if Jamal suffers any kind of setback, then the Nuggets are going to be dangerously thin at the guard position.

[skywalker33]

Speculating it'll take Bones 3 yrs to contribute (he's already contributing in his rookie year, much more than Morris did) is yet another stupid speculation to try and support a weak argument IMO

Nope, I meant if the Nuggets trade Morris for a pick, then that drafted player isn't going to contribute anytime soon. Bones may surpass him the next season, but it's not a given, and he seems injury prone too. If Morris is traded and if Jamal suffers any kind of setback, then the Nuggets are going to be dangerously thin at the guard position.

Perhaps, but Bones is contributing this year, so is Nnaji somewhat. Remember, drafting late lottery players instead of players in the 20's range, with our history, we might be able to get a player who could add some significant minutes, especially with some injuries potentially. I can condede Bones has played on only 49 of 61 games so far, too early to call him injury-prone though. He does need to add 10-15lbs, sure will help. The Nuggets are already looking at a thin back court this year and have performed admirable so far, it's why I am excited to see Murray and MPJ added for the playoffs, both will be fresh and hungry.

[Manolito]

This team simply needs patience. We have not seen Jokic, Murray, MPJ and Gordon's ceiling playing together. You don't burn valuable assets without knowing your roster's ceiling.

Only younger starter defensive minded SG is needed, although it would not be a drama to keep Barton (specially for locker room chemistry). We have no time to develop any other young prospect while championship window is fully open, therefore 2022 FRP should be used to improve SG position as we have very limited picks flexibility until 2024 draft day.

They DID play together last year before Jamal was hurt, they were destroying teams like the Clips, 76ers and Hawks, they weren't even gelling yet either. As for Morris, to treat him as an irreplaceable asset is foolish, he was a late SRP that we can potentially trade for a mid-FRP while replacing him with a more dynamic, cheaper Bones Hyland, that's what smart FO's do. When Jamal returns, that late SRP will push our FRP farther down the bench and his development will get diminished because his PT will diminish, same with next year or perhaps Bones could/should push Morris farther down the bench, reducing HIS value.

And for the record, we CAN'T trade our 2022 FRP because we've traded our 2023 FRP, even heard of the Stepien Rule ????

You have written that thousand times already. Do you know we can trade 2022 FRP the draft day???? Inform yourself before trying to correct someone else