PG: Raptors clip the Nets

[Ref_from_hell]

industrial engineering, with an aerospace focus!

Ah one of those easy-to-get PhD's.

Wow man, that is impressive as hell. My wife is in PhD4 of a Psyche degree. It has beaten and battered her and there isn't much left. I'm honestly not sure I should continue to encourage her.

Mine has been dragging on forever too (COVID really **** things up for me). I wish I had someone encouraging me because encouraging myself isn't working. I'd say keep encouraging her. If she's gotten this far, it would be a shame to not cross the finish line.

Right when I was about to start collecting data for my dissertation study the pandemic happened LOL. I had to shut everything down for five months.. It was the worst.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Nurse is an amazing coach but he has no idea how to evaluate more traditional PGs. We have seen it with Dragic and now Flynn sure they may not fit his 6'8 switch everything scheme but there both serviceable guards in a position of need for us.

Hopefully he learns and is a little more lenient towards normal size guards. We're not world beaters and these guys needed reps not a fear that they may get subbed out every defensive mistake

what do you mean, Flynn played like garbage to begin the season. Dragic didn't want to be here.

Anyone would play like garbage if they were one missed mistake away from being stapled to the bench. Dragic would have been fine if we gave him playing time but again Nurse stuck him on the bench.

some people rise to the occassion, and some people, like Flynn, fall flat on their face.

[Kevin Willis]

industrial engineering, with an aerospace focus!

Whats your thoughts on Space X and Blue Orgin? You think Space Travel will be a reality in 30-40 years? I think it's going to happen in 2050 or 2060s but you're the expert here!

I'd say a Mars mission in the 2040s. NASA is aiming for the 2030s, but you can never really trust them. With respect to those companies, I have more trust in them compared to NASA nowadays. If Elon Musk wants to get something done, he will get it done

Aerospace is both a lucrative and tough industry to get into. Canada doesn't have many aerospace companies. Industrial engineering should keep you happy for decades though. Golden age of industrial innovation.

[Kevin Willis]

Getting thrown into garbage time minutes, or a 9 minute game off the bench and then getting a DNP-CD the game after is not "giving a guy a chance". 10 of his first 12 games this season were single digit minutes. Not including these 2 games against the Nets, his only other start this season was against a completely healthy Sixers team while we were decimated with injuries.

Just look at his game log, man. 80% of his games are like 4-9 minutes, at least half of which are blowouts. And the odd game that he played 15-20+ minutes was almost always followed up with either a DNP-CD or again, 4 minutes.

That's literally what getting a chance looks like.

Perform well in garbage time, get spot bench minutes. Perform well in spot bench minutes, get rotation minutes. Perform well there, get starter minutes. Work your way up, and prove it each time.

But if you're crapping the bed in garbage time (and in the G-league) why would they look at that and give you HIGHER leverage situations?

Except garbage time and G-League are terrible ways to evaluate players, especially the former.

The Raptors drafted Flynn with their FRP in 2020, we only have 2 guards in our regular rotation (FVV/Trent), only one of who can actually handle the ball and run any semblance of half court offense. There is no reason not to play Flynn. Boucher has looked absolutely dreadful and he's still playing 15+ every single night. Khem Birch has been even worse and he's starting games right now.

The Memphis Grizzlies glued rookie Lowry to the bench, and then in Year 2 they started giving him consistent bench minutes. He looked pretty bad at first but they stuck with it and he ended up being one of their lone bright spots in a terrible season and got better as he played more games every night.

This is how you develop young talent. You don't glue their ass to the bench, play them in garbage time in games that don't matter, send them to the G-League and expect them to exponentially grow as players. You learn by playing.

People need to stop acting like 7 minutes per game in already decided games mean anything.

Except we're competitive and our G League team has developed players on a regular basis. Giving him minutes on a competitive team where if he fails it could mean something would be hard on his mental. They should've played him heavy minutes in the G League last year when we had Lowry and FVV. Tell him to focus on a few things, he would be in a better position this year.

[johanliebert]

I’d have to guess many of you read stat sheets instead of watching games cause how can anyone say Flynn got them into half court sets. I saw possessions where pascal of all people had to direct traffic and get Flynn to hurry up. He can drive and kick like most guards but his poor first step is an issue. Playing the nets with the roster they trotted out masks what Flynn really is and that’s a 3rd string point guard. FO has to address the backcourt they need some athleticism there.

Loool Flynn has the best first step on the team, he's really quick and shifty

I don't see the quickness or good first step. He often can't beat defenders off the bounce and cant get to his spots. I'd like a better backup PG its not hard to put up numbers vs seth curry/mills.

[Madhouse]

I’d have to guess many of you read stat sheets instead of watching games cause how can anyone say Flynn got them into half court sets. I saw possessions where pascal of all people had to direct traffic and get Flynn to hurry up. He can drive and kick like most guards but his poor first step is an issue. Playing the nets with the roster they trotted out masks what Flynn really is and that’s a 3rd string point guard. FO has to address the backcourt they need some athleticism there.

Loool Flynn has the best first step on the team, he's really quick and shifty

I don't see the quickness or good first step. He often can't beat defenders off the bounce and cant get to his spots. I'd like a better backup PG its not hard to put up numbers vs seth curry/mills.

It's not an elite first step and combined with the lack of strength will make it tough to consistently get to the basket for him and actually finish.

[Johnny Bball]

I hate this. Of course he won't look good when he's looking over his shoulder after every mistake and then picking up DNP-CDs every other game.

Lol. You really never noticed he can't play well coming off the bench? Like not once in the last 20 tries?

It's like boogie got a second account?

Why are all your posts super pretentious? You seem miserable as ****

Stop quoting me, I don't care what you have to say.

You're posts are super miserable and pessimistic and repetitive and I seem miserable? Yeah. Sure guy.

[LarrySeinfeld]

Why are all your posts super pretentious? You seem miserable as ****

Stop quoting me, I don't care what you have to say.

It took Fred 5 years to get a starting spot on an NBA team like the raptors after playing through those same G league stints and DNP's working his way up to a championship. It's the NBA man teams aren't giving away minutes like it's charity. He got his chances, multiple one's, he didn't perform like people expected him too. So he had to sit. He got another chance and this time he made something of it. Once Fred comes back he's not going to be given minutes like that again. He'll have to find a way to contribute and impact the game in shorter stints off the bench. Let's hope that this time he can.

I disagree that Flynn "got his chance", at least not this season.

Getting thrown into garbage time minutes, or a 9 minute game off the bench and then getting a DNP-CD the game after is not "giving a guy a chance". 10 of his first 12 games this season were single digit minutes. Not including these 2 games against the Nets, his only other start this season was against a completely healthy Sixers team while we were decimated with injuries.

Just look at his game log, man. 80% of his games are like 4-9 minutes, at least half of which are blowouts. And the odd game that he played 15-20+ minutes was almost always followed up with either a DNP-CD or again, 4 minutes.

The VanVleet comparison is not good. His situation was completely different. Also it didn't take him 5 years to become a starter, he was a full time starter since opening day on his 3rd season. Fred's first 2 years were on much more established rosters that were putting up 50-55 win seasons. His rookie year the Raptors were stacked at the point guard position, and then by year 2 he was already being given consistent backup minutes and closing some games. Not saying that was just given to him, he clearly earned it, but he was given the chance to earn those minutes. Compare Fred's sophomore year's game log to Flynn's. Do you notice the difference? WAY more consistency in his playing time which allows a young player to play with confidence because he knows his job is safe as long as he performs the way he should.

There's no excuse for not playing Flynn, especially this season. Even when Fred is back, Flynn should clearly be a 15-20 minute per game guy, EVERY NIGHT. No more DNP-CDs, no more 7 man rosters of 5 starters + Thad and Precious. We aren't a good enough team to do that.

Right, so how much do you want him to play exactly? He's playing behind an all-star you know. I mean i agree with you he can be given some more Meaningful minutes but i don't see it being much more then what hes getting now the difference being it's not garbage time. Johnnybball stated around 8-15 which i think seems plausible and that's IF he can play consistently. Otherwise he's only seeing garbage time.

[Steelo Green]

This discussion is interesting.

The Raptors are running Fred to the ground with the most minutes in the league, and two games of Flynn and we can clearly see he can play but he doesn’t deserve many more minutes.

Something is afoot.

[ImaBeatDatAzz]

It's an L unless Barnes significantly outplays Cade.

Pistons are actually decent right now

Yep. Cade, Saddiq Bey, and Jeremi Grant can all score 20+ easily. Then u have raptor killers Kelly Olynk, and of course Casey himself. It’s such an L lol

Cade, Bey and Grant are combining to score just over 50 PPG on 40% shooting and they turn the ball over about 7 times per game. I'm fine with letting those players go off for 20 points each if they're all taking 20 or more shots lol.

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well they have to cuz the rest of the team is filled with legit bums

[pingpongrac]

Nurse needs to put the same amount of trust in Flynn that he gave FVV in the 2019 playoffs. It was ugly for the first 2 rounds and a half, everyone was questioning why FVV wasn't benched. Then it just clicked and he ended up playing a big role in that Championship and has been great ever since.

FVV was coming off back-to-back years where he had a high impact off the bench. He was even a finalist for 6MOY the year before the Championship run. When FVV was struggling early in the playoffs, Nurse had 2+ years of evidence that FVV can be very good.

It would make sense to do the same thing if Flynn had shown he can play at a high level, but he had maybe a dozen good games last season while he was terrible in most of the other 25-30 games where he played rotation minutes. That's not a whole lot to go off of lol. Also, with Banton playing well out of the gates, it wouldn't make sense to bench him for Flynn when he was bad to start this season.

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Flynn actually won rookie of the month in May of last year after playing like **** in the earlier part of the year. He got better as the season went on, and got better with more games. He has definitely shown a long enough stretch that he can play. FVV was given opportunities similarly when he was a younger player, maybe even more so. Flynn is in his second year with no G League reps last season. He definitely hasn't been given significant run to get his **** together this season. It took this team in general almost 3 months to get going as a team. It's not a surprise that the younger players suffered even more to get their games together.

Yeah, Flynn did win rookie of the month. It was actually April and he averaged 13/4/5 on 56 TS% for the month which was pretty damn impressive. In that month, he had about half a dozen very good games (16/5/5/2 vs GSW, 16/6/4/4/3 vs WAS, 20/2/11/2 vs CLE, 22/5/3/2 vs ATL, 15/7/5 vs OKC and 18/5/5/2 vs CLE) while he scored in single digits and/or shot below 30% in most of the other games (except for a game against Denver where he turned the ball over 6 times and was the main reason we lost that game as he had 3 turnovers and was -17 in Q4 alone).

Flynn had one good game in the first half of the season (12/5/2 vs SAC) and was terrible in most of his other ~20 games. Outside of the game in Sacramento, he shot 15/67 from the field prior to April. He had some better games to close out the season (15/7/3/1 vs MEM, 26/6/5/2 vs DAL and 27/4/5/2/1 vs IND), but he was pretty bad in the other 6 games in May (7/4/4 on 26/23/63 shooting splits).

Overall, I stand by my point that Flynn had no more than a dozen good games last season. It was promising that basically all of those games came in the last 6-8 weeks, but it's also pretty important to acknowledge that most of those games came against bad teams (Kings, Warriors without Curry+Draymond, Cavs x2, OKC) and a couple more came in the last week of the season.

Also, Flynn was given a pretty fair opportunity to perform in the first two months this season even though Banton was playing well throughout a large chunk of that time and FVV was playing at a very high level. He played in 21 of our first 29 games and had 10+ minutes in 8 of those games. He needs to learn how to have an impact in those 5-6 minutes he was getting in the first half of a lot of early-season games because then he would get more run in the second half. If he needs 20+ minutes to get into a groove and perform, he's probably out of luck on this team. Hopefully that's not the case and he figures things out with more experience.

[dukes_wild]

It took Fred 5 years to get a starting spot on an NBA team like the raptors after playing through those same G league stints and DNP's working his way up to a championship. It's the NBA man teams aren't giving away minutes like it's charity. He got his chances, multiple one's, he didn't perform like people expected him too. So he had to sit. He got another chance and this time he made something of it. Once Fred comes back he's not going to be given minutes like that again. He'll have to find a way to contribute and impact the game in shorter stints off the bench. Let's hope that this time he can.

I disagree that Flynn "got his chance", at least not this season.

Getting thrown into garbage time minutes, or a 9 minute game off the bench and then getting a DNP-CD the game after is not "giving a guy a chance". 10 of his first 12 games this season were single digit minutes. Not including these 2 games against the Nets, his only other start this season was against a completely healthy Sixers team while we were decimated with injuries.

Just look at his game log, man. 80% of his games are like 4-9 minutes, at least half of which are blowouts. And the odd game that he played 15-20+ minutes was almost always followed up with either a DNP-CD or again, 4 minutes.

The VanVleet comparison is not good. His situation was completely different. Also it didn't take him 5 years to become a starter, he was a full time starter since opening day on his 3rd season. Fred's first 2 years were on much more established rosters that were putting up 50-55 win seasons. His rookie year the Raptors were stacked at the point guard position, and then by year 2 he was already being given consistent backup minutes and closing some games. Not saying that was just given to him, he clearly earned it, but he was given the chance to earn those minutes. Compare Fred's sophomore year's game log to Flynn's. Do you notice the difference? WAY more consistency in his playing time which allows a young player to play with confidence because he knows his job is safe as long as he performs the way he should.

There's no excuse for not playing Flynn, especially this season. Even when Fred is back, Flynn should clearly be a 15-20 minute per game guy, EVERY NIGHT. No more DNP-CDs, no more 7 man rosters of 5 starters + Thad and Precious. We aren't a good enough team to do that.

Right, so how much do you want him to play exactly? He's playing behind an all-star you know. I mean i agree with you he can be given some more Meaningful minutes but i don't see it being much more then what hes getting now the difference being it's not garbage time. Johnnybball stated around 8-15 which i think seems plausible and that's IF he can play consistently. Otherwise he's only seeing garbage time.

I don't see any reason Flynn can't play WITH Fred as well. Have Fred off the ball while Malachi handles the ball.

FVV 36 / Flynn 12
Trent 34 / Flynn 14
Barnes 34 / Thad 14
Siakam 36 / Boucher 12
OG 32 / Precious 16

This would be a much more balanced 9 man rotation than what we currently run. If it were up to me as well I'd probably cut Boucher from the rotation completely and scatter his 12 minutes to Thad/Precious

[LarrySeinfeld]

I disagree that Flynn "got his chance", at least not this season.

Getting thrown into garbage time minutes, or a 9 minute game off the bench and then getting a DNP-CD the game after is not "giving a guy a chance". 10 of his first 12 games this season were single digit minutes. Not including these 2 games against the Nets, his only other start this season was against a completely healthy Sixers team while we were decimated with injuries.

Just look at his game log, man. 80% of his games are like 4-9 minutes, at least half of which are blowouts. And the odd game that he played 15-20+ minutes was almost always followed up with either a DNP-CD or again, 4 minutes.

The VanVleet comparison is not good. His situation was completely different. Also it didn't take him 5 years to become a starter, he was a full time starter since opening day on his 3rd season. Fred's first 2 years were on much more established rosters that were putting up 50-55 win seasons. His rookie year the Raptors were stacked at the point guard position, and then by year 2 he was already being given consistent backup minutes and closing some games. Not saying that was just given to him, he clearly earned it, but he was given the chance to earn those minutes. Compare Fred's sophomore year's game log to Flynn's. Do you notice the difference? WAY more consistency in his playing time which allows a young player to play with confidence because he knows his job is safe as long as he performs the way he should.

There's no excuse for not playing Flynn, especially this season. Even when Fred is back, Flynn should clearly be a 15-20 minute per game guy, EVERY NIGHT. No more DNP-CDs, no more 7 man rosters of 5 starters + Thad and Precious. We aren't a good enough team to do that.

Right, so how much do you want him to play exactly? He's playing behind an all-star you know. I mean i agree with you he can be given some more Meaningful minutes but i don't see it being much more then what hes getting now the difference being it's not garbage time. Johnnybball stated around 8-15 which i think seems plausible and that's IF he can play consistently. Otherwise he's only seeing garbage time.

I don't see any reason Flynn can't play WITH Fred as well. Have Fred off the ball while Malachi handles the ball.

FVV 36 / Flynn 12
Trent 34 / Flynn 14
Barnes 34 / Thad 14
Siakam 36 / Boucher 12
OG 32 / Precious 16

This would be a much more balanced 9 man rotation than what we currently run. If it were up to me as well I'd probably cut Boucher from the rotation completely and scatter his 12 minutes to Thad/Precious

Can't say i'm a fan of that. That 1-2, Kyle-Fred lineup is history. I don't see Flynn filling either of those shoes to warrant a lineup like that. Why get rid of Boucher? You turn the roster into small ball then, opposite of everything were doing now and our team identity. What happens to GTJ or OG? do there minutes go down too so that Flynn can play alongside Fred. Just doesn't seem beneficial.

However, I don't see anything wrong with playing 12 minutes behind Fred. Let's see what he can do first.

[TravisScott55]

there is absolutely 0 reason for Fred to be playing more than 35 mins a game when he comes back.

34mins 45secounds should be right about ok, but I will prefer 33mins and 20 secs . Cmon stop it with that stuff.
His style-of-play will always cause "injuries" as a 2-way player. Unfortunately, he can't just save his legs/knees on defense like some of those so-called superstars (Harden, Curry and many others)

Lol you really think high minutes don't contribute to more injuries?

[Mikistan]

I disagree that Flynn "got his chance", at least not this season.

Getting thrown into garbage time minutes, or a 9 minute game off the bench and then getting a DNP-CD the game after is not "giving a guy a chance". 10 of his first 12 games this season were single digit minutes. Not including these 2 games against the Nets, his only other start this season was against a completely healthy Sixers team while we were decimated with injuries.

Just look at his game log, man. 80% of his games are like 4-9 minutes, at least half of which are blowouts. And the odd game that he played 15-20+ minutes was almost always followed up with either a DNP-CD or again, 4 minutes.

The VanVleet comparison is not good. His situation was completely different. Also it didn't take him 5 years to become a starter, he was a full time starter since opening day on his 3rd season. Fred's first 2 years were on much more established rosters that were putting up 50-55 win seasons. His rookie year the Raptors were stacked at the point guard position, and then by year 2 he was already being given consistent backup minutes and closing some games. Not saying that was just given to him, he clearly earned it, but he was given the chance to earn those minutes. Compare Fred's sophomore year's game log to Flynn's. Do you notice the difference? WAY more consistency in his playing time which allows a young player to play with confidence because he knows his job is safe as long as he performs the way he should.

There's no excuse for not playing Flynn, especially this season. Even when Fred is back, Flynn should clearly be a 15-20 minute per game guy, EVERY NIGHT. No more DNP-CDs, no more 7 man rosters of 5 starters + Thad and Precious. We aren't a good enough team to do that.

Right, so how much do you want him to play exactly? He's playing behind an all-star you know. I mean i agree with you he can be given some more Meaningful minutes but i don't see it being much more then what hes getting now the difference being it's not garbage time. Johnnybball stated around 8-15 which i think seems plausible and that's IF he can play consistently. Otherwise he's only seeing garbage time.

I don't see any reason Flynn can't play WITH Fred as well. Have Fred off the ball while Malachi handles the ball.

FVV 36 / Flynn 12
Trent 34 / Flynn 14
Barnes 34 / Thad 14
Siakam 36 / Boucher 12
OG 32 / Precious 16

This would be a much more balanced 9 man rotation than what we currently run. If it were up to me as well I'd probably cut Boucher from the rotation completely and scatter his 12 minutes to Thad/Precious

absolutely no 2 pg sets
no no no

thats not what our system is about, our system is about a bunch of 6 foot 9 long bois switching - you cant close out properly in the NBA anymore with out switch defence or help defend in the paint with our constant switch / help 1 man away defense with 2 guys that are 6 foot tall and small wingspan - not when we dont have a real dedicated centre who can rim protect - and even then our defense breaks down so much - imagine flynn and FVV jumping at the corner 3s we give up doing absolutely nothing to contest because they are so small. just cant do it

flynn is relegated to 10-15 minutes off the bench as a PG a night , it sucks but it is what it is and hes great to have as insurance for injury or resting mr. FVV sr. on back 2 backs

[dukes_wild]

Right, so how much do you want him to play exactly? He's playing behind an all-star you know. I mean i agree with you he can be given some more Meaningful minutes but i don't see it being much more then what hes getting now the difference being it's not garbage time. Johnnybball stated around 8-15 which i think seems plausible and that's IF he can play consistently. Otherwise he's only seeing garbage time.

I don't see any reason Flynn can't play WITH Fred as well. Have Fred off the ball while Malachi handles the ball.

FVV 36 / Flynn 12
Trent 34 / Flynn 14
Barnes 34 / Thad 14
Siakam 36 / Boucher 12
OG 32 / Precious 16

This would be a much more balanced 9 man rotation than what we currently run. If it were up to me as well I'd probably cut Boucher from the rotation completely and scatter his 12 minutes to Thad/Precious

absolutely no 2 pg sets
no no no

thats not what our system is about, our system is about a bunch of 6 foot 9 long bois switching - you cant close out properly in the NBA anymore with out switch defence or help defend in the paint with our constant switch / help 1 man away defense with 2 guys that are 6 foot tall and small wingspan - not when we dont have a real dedicated centre who can rim protect - and even then our defense breaks down so much - imagine flynn and FVV jumping at the corner 3s we give up doing absolutely nothing to contest because they are so small. just cant do it

flynn is relegated to 10-15 minutes off the bench as a PG a night , it sucks but it is what it is and hes great to have as insurance for injury or resting mr. FVV sr. on back 2 backs

We're 15th in the NBA in DRTG despite having "6'9 guys who can switch". Maybe it's not that crazy to do something different.

The benefit of Flynn on offense giving us another ball handler who can create, run pick and roll, and shoot outweighs the few extra points you MAY give up by losing size

[pingpongrac]

I don't see any reason Flynn can't play WITH Fred as well. Have Fred off the ball while Malachi handles the ball.

FVV 36 / Flynn 12
Trent 34 / Flynn 14
Barnes 34 / Thad 14
Siakam 36 / Boucher 12
OG 32 / Precious 16

This would be a much more balanced 9 man rotation than what we currently run. If it were up to me as well I'd probably cut Boucher from the rotation completely and scatter his 12 minutes to Thad/Precious

absolutely no 2 pg sets
no no no

thats not what our system is about, our system is about a bunch of 6 foot 9 long bois switching - you cant close out properly in the NBA anymore with out switch defence or help defend in the paint with our constant switch / help 1 man away defense with 2 guys that are 6 foot tall and small wingspan - not when we dont have a real dedicated centre who can rim protect - and even then our defense breaks down so much - imagine flynn and FVV jumping at the corner 3s we give up doing absolutely nothing to contest because they are so small. just cant do it

flynn is relegated to 10-15 minutes off the bench as a PG a night , it sucks but it is what it is and hes great to have as insurance for injury or resting mr. FVV sr. on back 2 backs

We're 15th in the NBA in DRTG despite having "6'9 guys who can switch". Maybe it's not that crazy to do something different.

The benefit of Flynn on offense giving us another ball handler who can create, run pick and roll, and shoot outweighs the few extra points you MAY give up by losing size

Our 14th ranked defence has a lot to do with the back-to-back blowouts without OG last weekend and the Cleveland game. We have been hovering around top 10 on the defensive end for most of the season despite injuries and inexperience because of our big lineups.

The FVV+Flynn backcourt has been good in a limited sample size so far this season (+5.5 NetRTG in 67 minutes), but it's not something we should be using for 5-10 minutes every game. As others have said, Flynn is basically going to be relegated to 12-15 MPG most nights when FVV is healthy. There just isn't much room for another undersized PG in the rotation when there is already a high-impact all-star eating up 38 MPG at the 1 and a blossoming (and younger than Flynn) scorer eating up 35 MPG at the 2.

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[GLF]

absolutely no 2 pg sets
no no no

thats not what our system is about, our system is about a bunch of 6 foot 9 long bois switching - you cant close out properly in the NBA anymore with out switch defence or help defend in the paint with our constant switch / help 1 man away defense with 2 guys that are 6 foot tall and small wingspan - not when we dont have a real dedicated centre who can rim protect - and even then our defense breaks down so much - imagine flynn and FVV jumping at the corner 3s we give up doing absolutely nothing to contest because they are so small. just cant do it

flynn is relegated to 10-15 minutes off the bench as a PG a night , it sucks but it is what it is and hes great to have as insurance for injury or resting mr. FVV sr. on back 2 backs

We're 15th in the NBA in DRTG despite having "6'9 guys who can switch". Maybe it's not that crazy to do something different.

The benefit of Flynn on offense giving us another ball handler who can create, run pick and roll, and shoot outweighs the few extra points you MAY give up by losing size

Our 14th ranked defence has a lot to do with the back-to-back blowouts without OG last weekend and the Cleveland game. We have been hovering around top 10 on the defensive end for most of the season despite injuries and inexperience because of our big lineups.

The FVV+Flynn backcourt has been good in a limited sample size so far this season (+5.5 NetRTG in 67 minutes), but it's not something we should be using for 5-10 minutes every game. As others have said, Flynn is basically going to be relegated to 12-15 MPG most nights when FVV is healthy. There just isn't much room for another undersized PG in the rotation when there is already a high-impact all-star eating up 38 MPG at the 1 and a blossoming (and younger than Flynn) scorer eating up 35 MPG at the 2.

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Completely agree. Also it defeats the purpose of finally having a good back up point guard. The point of the back up point guard is to give Fred the rest in game he deserves. If they’re playing together for 10 minutes a game then Fred is not getting that rest. Also the only reason why we played Kyle and Fred together so much is bc one Kyle is Kyle and Flynn doesn’t even come close but also we didn’t have a shooting guard like Gary.

Norm was there but his defence isn’t close to Gary’s this season and we actually used to close with him but at the 3 so we could play our small lineup. Now with Gary I don’t see the desperate need to play two point guards. Flynn should be playing to give Fred rest and that’s it. Also every one needs to simmer. The man has a couple good games with Fred out and everyone now wants him to get like 20 mins a game lol. He needs to prove he can produce with much less minutes and in shorter spurts before I get too excited about him. I’m glad he’s playing well though. I hope he figures it out.

[Tha Cynic]

FVV was coming off back-to-back years where he had a high impact off the bench. He was even a finalist for 6MOY the year before the Championship run. When FVV was struggling early in the playoffs, Nurse had 2+ years of evidence that FVV can be very good.

It would make sense to do the same thing if Flynn had shown he can play at a high level, but he had maybe a dozen good games last season while he was terrible in most of the other 25-30 games where he played rotation minutes. That's not a whole lot to go off of lol. Also, with Banton playing well out of the gates, it wouldn't make sense to bench him for Flynn when he was bad to start this season.

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Flynn actually won rookie of the month in May of last year after playing like **** in the earlier part of the year. He got better as the season went on, and got better with more games. He has definitely shown a long enough stretch that he can play. FVV was given opportunities similarly when he was a younger player, maybe even more so. Flynn is in his second year with no G League reps last season. He definitely hasn't been given significant run to get his **** together this season. It took this team in general almost 3 months to get going as a team. It's not a surprise that the younger players suffered even more to get their games together.

Yeah, Flynn did win rookie of the month. It was actually April and he averaged 13/4/5 on 56 TS% for the month which was pretty damn impressive. In that month, he had about half a dozen very good games (16/5/5/2 vs GSW, 16/6/4/4/3 vs WAS, 20/2/11/2 vs CLE, 22/5/3/2 vs ATL, 15/7/5 vs OKC and 18/5/5/2 vs CLE) while he scored in single digits and/or shot below 30% in most of the other games (except for a game against Denver where he turned the ball over 6 times and was the main reason we lost that game as he had 3 turnovers and was -17 in Q4 alone).

Flynn had one good game in the first half of the season (12/5/2 vs SAC) and was terrible in most of his other ~20 games. Outside of the game in Sacramento, he shot 15/67 from the field prior to April. He had some better games to close out the season (15/7/3/1 vs MEM, 26/6/5/2 vs DAL and 27/4/5/2/1 vs IND), but he was pretty bad in the other 6 games in May (7/4/4 on 26/23/63 shooting splits).

Overall, I stand by my point that Flynn had no more than a dozen good games last season. It was promising that basically all of those games came in the last 6-8 weeks, but it's also pretty important to acknowledge that most of those games came against bad teams (Kings, Warriors without Curry+Draymond, Cavs x2, OKC) and a couple more came in the last week of the season.

Also, Flynn was given a pretty fair opportunity to perform in the first two months this season even though Banton was playing well throughout a large chunk of that time and FVV was playing at a very high level. He played in 21 of our first 29 games and had 10+ minutes in 8 of those games. He needs to learn how to have an impact in those 5-6 minutes he was getting in the first half of a lot of early-season games because then he would get more run in the second half. If he needs 20+ minutes to get into a groove and perform, he's probably out of luck on this team. Hopefully that's not the case and he figures things out with more experience.

Agreed that his good games weren't against great teams, but we're not trying to develop a superstar here. We just need someone who can play decent minutes as a backup. I do wonder if Flynn is going through some of the same things that Norm Powell went through in the earlier part of his career where he was jerked back and forth. Flynn does seem to struggle more when he comes off the bench too, and maybe that's just a mindset thing that needs to change.

For me, you need to give him a chance to play through mistakes and still get run, as long as you're working hard in practice and trying on defense. His skillset is there to be a very decent player - ball handling, smooth looking jumper, ability to run the pick and roll, and of course some of the rookie mistakes. I think playing consistently with a team that is now playing well will help him a lot more than playing consistently on a team that looked like 15 individual players having practice session in the earlier part of the season.