Does Hardens success on the sixers prove Ben Taylor wrong that harden is not a portable player?

[HardenandWilt]

I remmeber on a podcast, ben would knock harden as not on wade and kobe's level because hardebs gane was according to him.. NOT PORTABLE. But now we have seen harden with cp3, and willingly be the 3rd option to kyrie and durant have success when he is engaged, and now we are seeing it again with joel embiid.

Is it time to start looking at Harden differently as an all-time great scorer/playmaker. I just checked basketball reference and harden already top 20 all-time in value over replacement

Does ben taylors portability grading scale need an adjustment

[No-more-rings]

As i’ve said before, portability applies mostly to guys who are role players or low level stars. Not guys who are bonified superstars/in the running for top 5 in the game types. If someone is going to use portability as the crux of their argument when comparing two or more ATG players I’m probably going to stop listening. I’m not saying Ben did this, but certainly he’s not immune.

Btw, if that’s the same podcast i’ve listened to his main reason for having Harden below those 2 was scoring resiliency in the postseason and defense to a lesser extent. He may have mentioned portability but i doubt it considering he thinks little of Wade’s portability.

[Cavsfansince84]

Ben Taylor's word isn't law. I think Harden showed a lot in 2018 and also last year. At least enough to justify the idea that you can win without him needing to the center of everything. He came in at like 33 in the last top 100 and will probably overtake Ewing to be like 29 in the next one imo. Criticism of him as a playoff performer is going to persist though most likely. Maybe he got screwed with CP3's injuries but Harden maybe could have found a way to win that series had he played better. Sometimes players just have to step up and put their foot through that window when they have the chance like Dirk managed to do though he still has time with Philly.

[DCasey91]

Ben Taylor gets things wrong his word isn’t gospel. Basketball is fluid not static. The oldest system in the book a premier guard with an elite two way big is basically the nucleus of a championship level ceiling always has been. In fact most championships/finalists in history are exactly that.

I don’t know you could think Harden isn’t portable. He transitions seamlessly from scorer to playmaker and has played and done well with all sorts of different types of players and skillsets.

Fwiw GSW was more talented but Morey attacked that team through weakness I.e floor play. GSW other weakness of course was the C position always has been except for the Bogut years.

So 48 mins of ATG floor play with no respite between the two was in fact putting the rockets over the top despite GSW having more talent. It worked in theory and in practice but Sports and injuries go hand in hand.

Prime MVP level Embiid is probably the best player Harden is playing with that coincides with his age window so the results should be big time. I say should but it’s a wait and see

[DCasey91]

Ben Taylor's word isn't law. I think Harden showed a lot in 2018 and also last year. At least enough to justify the idea that you can win without him needing to the center of everything. He came in at like 33 in the last top 100 and will probably overtake Ewing to be like 29 in the next one imo. Criticism of him as a playoff performer is going to persist though most likely. Maybe he got screwed with CP3's injuries but Harden maybe could have found a way to win that series had he played better. Sometimes players just have to step up and put their foot through that window when they have the chance like Dirk managed to do though he still has time with Philly.

Lebron James is better than Harden, KD is better than Harden

MJ by himself without Pippen wouldn’t have beaten the GSW cmon let’s be serious here.

[Cavsfansince84]

Ben Taylor's word isn't law. I think Harden showed a lot in 2018 and also last year. At least enough to justify the idea that you can win without him needing to the center of everything. He came in at like 33 in the last top 100 and will probably overtake Ewing to be like 29 in the next one imo. Criticism of him as a playoff performer is going to persist though most likely. Maybe he got screwed with CP3's injuries but Harden maybe could have found a way to win that series had he played better. Sometimes players just have to step up and put their foot through that window when they have the chance like Dirk managed to do though he still has time with Philly.

Lebron James is better than Harden, KD is better than Harden

MJ by himself without Pippen wouldn’t have beaten the GSW cmon let’s be serious here.

What I'm saying is I think he had 2 games without CP3 to get a win and he was good in game 6 but then in game 7 they had a double digit lead in the second half and the team went cold while I think Klay got hot and GS wins it. It's not impossible to say that had James had a big second half they win that game then go on to win the finals. Its absolutely nothing to do with hypotheticals involving LeBron or MJ. Most players only get so many shots at a ring in their careers unless they are someone like LeBron or end up on super teams.

[DCasey91]

But that’s why CP3 was ultra important and the backbone of the Rockets whole idea to kryponite the GSW. They ran up big halftime leads because both operate at slower pace which stifled GSW outgunning style of play.

Without CP3 (by far the best floor man on both teams that series) the side parts goes into disorganisation. Essentially there isn’t going to be 20 misses under CP3’s watch. Your a Cavs fan I presume it’s the same with a Lebron led setup it doesn’t allow for it.

Besides you can’t just outgun KD and Bloody Curry ain’t going to happen along with the biggest nuke in Klay which is inconsistent but 5 mins of Klay getting hot and it’s game over.

[falcolombardi]

portability concerns about harden have always been exxagerated because having 2 star ballhandlers/on ball scorers is not a bad thingh (actually you -should- want to have some degree of redundancy with on-ball players it helps your bench units and helps with injuries)

and harden can space the floor when he doesnt have the ball, so not exactly a wade/lebron situation where wade lack of 3 point shooting hindered lebron at times

[LukaTheGOAT]

I imagine detractors of Harden likely will want a larger PS sample size of him and Embiid playing together, and Harden making deep PS runs with a great offense. I know Ben doesn't think the Houston PS offenses were that great to be honest, and actually their defense was a really underrated part of their success.

[Doctor MJ]

I remmeber on a podcast, ben would knock harden as not on wade and kobe's level because hardebs gane was according to him.. NOT PORTABLE. But now we have seen harden with cp3, and willingly be the 3rd option to kyrie and durant have success when he is engaged, and now we are seeing it again with joel embiid.

Is it time to start looking at Harden differently as an all-time great scorer/playmaker. I just checked basketball reference and harden already top 20 all-time in value over replacement

Does ben taylors portability grading scale need an adjustment

I think if you want to make a post evaluating a particular analyst as right or wrong, you should probably quote that analyst. In general, Taylor isn't going around saying "Player A is portable, Player B is not" - he's not that sort of binary thing as his thrust - so what precisely did he say that you believe has been contradicted by recent events?

[ShotCreator]

Any justification for saying Harden is/was not on Wade/Kobe level is probably destined to not make much sense in reality. Absurd to actually argue that IMO.

[falcolombardi]

I remmeber on a podcast, ben would knock harden as not on wade and kobe's level because hardebs gane was according to him.. NOT PORTABLE. But now we have seen harden with cp3, and willingly be the 3rd option to kyrie and durant have success when he is engaged, and now we are seeing it again with joel embiid.

Is it time to start looking at Harden differently as an all-time great scorer/playmaker. I just checked basketball reference and harden already top 20 all-time in value over replacement

Does ben taylors portability grading scale need an adjustment

I think if you want to make a post evaluating a particular analyst as right or wrong, you should probably quote that analyst. In general, Taylor isn't going around saying "Player A is portable, Player B is not" - he's not that sort of binary thing as his thrust - so what precisely did he say that you believe has been contradicted by recent events?

ben Taylor uses portability as hándicap of sorts, a +1, 0 or -1 to give a player

which leads to the odd situation where he can say "magic/nash created the best offenses of all time when playing with talented teams"

and then still take away points for portability because "their lack of portability limits their ceiling on talented teams"

ir would make more sense imo to look at portability as a weakness or strenght when trying to explain why a player didnt get the results it seems like he should have (line wade/lebron pairing)

as he does it, it seems like he values portability for portability sake when he criticizes the offensive portability of the guys literally leading the best offenses of all time because they were not off ball enough while doing so

[HeartBreakKid]

It had been proven along time ago, like basically every year, that teams not only can have more than one ball dominant players but likely should.

It's good to have ball dominant players on your team. The rule is closer to one is not enough than two is too many.

[Dr Positivity]

The Sixers are a great fit for Harden so how does this say anything about his portability?

[magicman1978]

Is there a link to the podcast? I would imagine that he didn't say Harden was not portable. What he's likely saying is that Harden is not as portable (scalable may be a better term).as someone like Kobe who has an elite off ball game whereas Harden can often be uninvolved without the ball in his hands. It's not about whether you can plug him into different teams, it's more about whether you can plug him into different roles.

[HeartBreakKid]

Is there a link to the podcast? I would imagine that he didn't say Harden was not portable. What he's likely saying is that Harden is not as portable (scalable may be a better term).as someone like Kobe who has an elite off ball game whereas Harden can often be uninvolved without the ball in his hands. It's not about whether you can plug him into different teams, it's more about whether you can plug him into different roles.

James Harden is a point guard who is mislabeled as a shooting guard - why should he not have the ball in his hands?

Kobe Bryant is an actual shooting guard and thus he should be great at off ball playing. He could not play a different role all that well, he turns the ball over like crazy if he goes point.

[magicman1978]

Is there a link to the podcast? I would imagine that he didn't say Harden was not portable. What he's likely saying is that Harden is not as portable (scalable may be a better term).as someone like Kobe who has an elite off ball game whereas Harden can often be uninvolved without the ball in his hands. It's not about whether you can plug him into different teams, it's more about whether you can plug him into different roles.

James Harden is a point guard who is mislabeled as a shooting guard - why should he not have the ball in his hands?

Kobe Bryant is an actual shooting guard and thus he should be great at off ball playing. He could not play a different role all that well, he turns the ball over like crazy if he goes point.

Well, I never said he shouldn't have the ball in his hands (but maybe when he doesn't he shouldn't just be standing around doing nothing. It's not an either or type of deal). The point I'm making is I doubt Ben outright said Harden is not portable (but I haven't heard the podcast so I could be wrong). And I don't necessarily agree that portability/scalability should factor into player rankings because it's too much of an unknown and extremely difficult to assess,

[G35]

I imagine detractors of Harden likely will want a larger PS sample size of him and Embiid playing together, and Harden making deep PS runs with a great offense. I know Ben doesn't think the Houston PS offenses were that great to be honest, and actually their defense was a really underrated part of their success.

+1

Anyone going off of Harden's tenure in Philly is dismissing some of the ATG deflection arguments:

- sample size is too small
- who cares about the RS
- defense matters
- leadership matters

Harden has failed in the playoffs enough times to verify those last two arguments......

[Clyde Frazier]

Are you from the future? It's been 3 games.

[70sFan]

What success?