Porzingis + 2nd round pick for Dinwiddie, Bertans

[payitforward]

FWIW, I still think Nate Hinton is going to break out

That would be great -- but... he better do it soon. Undrafted guys don't get a ton of opportunities.

[payitforward]

...most of us far more positive about KP than Pif is....

Certainly true. Only, if being "positive" about a player means expecting him to post average numbers or better at his position, there is no basis in KP's past which would make that expectation rational.

Of course, there's no need to be rational, is there? See above under "irrational enthusiasm."

....Being more positive about Dinwiddie than KP seems silly to me....

Really? Yet, I don't recall you or anyone here ever writing, even once, that "we should try & deal for Kristaps Porzingis. He's the kind of guy we need."

OTOH, I do recall that a whole lot of us, me included & maybe you included too, thought signing Spencer Dinwiddie was a terrific idea.

Of course, if a guy plays well that does seem like a non-silly reason to be positive about him. How's Dinwiddie playing in Dallas? How about other seasons? Has he had seasons in which, overall, he was a good player?

He didn't work out for us. That's for sure.

What about Porzingis? Has he been a good player so far? Had any good seasons overall? Has he been a good player this season?

He has? He's had a good career? He's been a good player this year? Those are reasons to be "positive" about him?

Wow... the Dallas FO must really be a bunch of idiots to have traded him straight up for Spencer Dinwiddie, huh? Oh, wait -- they threw in a R2 pick?

Sorry guys, but no....

[Frichuela]

Is this true or another Unicorn mirage?

Read on Twitter

?s=21

[Mr B]

He really has been superb! He's been the guy some of us were thinking we might get here. At the same time, for sure it wasn't working out.

Here's hoping KP plays well. Not sure where your confidence in that comes from, badinage, but I hope you turn out to be correct. However unlikely that is....

Where it comes from? It comes from irrational optimism. The same irrational optimism that I feel with every acquisition — could this possibly be …? have we just gotten a steal …? are we looking at a potential star …? The same irrational optimism that has enabled me to be a fan of this benighted franchise for all these many decades.

Without it, I’m done; I throw in the towel; I stop watching the games; I stop reading all of you.

…

I really would like to know how so many of you do it. I ask in all seriousness, with the hope of learning something: How do you do it? How do you keep coming back on here — keep investing in this team — keep thinking about a future with this franchise — while maintaining what seems to me to be a very cold, flint-eyed perspective. Maybe at bottom you’re all irrationally optimistic, like me, but you just don’t ever permit yourselves to show it in public? Because it’s unseemly to be too high when they win or too low when they lose? Too unseemly to get giddy at times? Better to be even-keeled and hyper-realistic? Again, I don’t have the answers. I don’t know. I’m asking. I don’t know how you can be a fan, and care, and come to a forum like this, day in and day out — and be so shorn of optimism, or fanaticism, or willful naïveté, or whatever you want to call it. Or, to put it another way: to be so clear-eyed — siphoned of all illusion, of all delusion.

Truly: is it fun? Because it doesn’t strike me as fun. Now, I’ll grant you: I’m sure it’s better for your mental health, to not allow yourself to be seduced or tempted; to never be lured too high; to never let yourself fall too low. But that doesn’t strike me as an escape from reality; it strikes me as reality — as using the same survival skills necessary to get by in this life of ours; as taking the same approach to opportunities and problems as we do in our workaday lives, our personal lives.

Ftr, most of us far more positive about KP than Pif is. Being more positive about Dinwiddie than KP seems silly to me, but what do I know?

It’s really all about the fit. I don’t anyone is denying KP’s talent. The problem has been that he never seemed to fit into the offense with Luka. There have been a couple of times where he would go through a stretch of games where he would put up good numbers and things would start to click, then he’d miss a couple weeks with some kind of injury. Then when he would come back it’s like they had to start all over again. There was zero chemistry between KP and Luka. After 3 years of that it was time to move on.

With Dinwiddie it’s been the complete opposite. He’s come in and provided the Mavs with something they didn’t have (and something they needed). He’s already established a role, something KP never did in 3 years in Dallas. The Mavs are getting meaningful production from Dinwiddie. For whatever reason KP never gave the Mavs meaningful production.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

"To me the best rim protector in the league is (Kristaps Porzingis)" - Anthony Edwards

We also got the 52nd pick. Much better deal than trading unprotected firsts and young players to form a Sabonis and Bertans front court

With the 52nd pick, any one of several players could stick:

Ron Harper Jr.
Kofi Cockburn
Fatts Russell
Scott Pippin, Jr.

That dude doclinkin says reminds him of Beal, ISAIAH MOSELY

Eric Ayala
Trayce Jackson-Davis

TEVIN BROWN

[doclinkin]

He really has been superb! He's been the guy some of us were thinking we might get here. At the same time, for sure it wasn't working out.

Here's hoping KP plays well. Not sure where your confidence in that comes from, badinage, but I hope you turn out to be correct. However unlikely that is....

Where it comes from? It comes from irrational optimism. The same irrational optimism that I feel with every acquisition — could this possibly be …? have we just gotten a steal …? are we looking at a potential star …? The same irrational optimism that has enabled me to be a fan of this benighted franchise for all these many decades.

Without it, I’m done; I throw in the towel; I stop watching the games; I stop reading all of you.

…

I really would like to know how so many of you do it. I ask in all seriousness, with the hope of learning something: How do you do it? How do you keep coming back on here — keep investing in this team — keep thinking about a future with this franchise — while maintaining what seems to me to be a very cold, flint-eyed perspective. Maybe at bottom you’re all irrationally optimistic, like me, but you just don’t ever permit yourselves to show it in public? Because it’s unseemly to be too high when they win or too low when they lose? Too unseemly to get giddy at times? Better to be even-keeled and hyper-realistic? Again, I don’t have the answers. I don’t know. I’m asking. I don’t know how you can be a fan, and care, and come to a forum like this, day in and day out — and be so shorn of optimism, or fanaticism, or willful naïveté, or whatever you want to call it. Or, to put it another way: to be so clear-eyed — siphoned of all illusion, of all delusion.

Truly: is it fun? Because it doesn’t strike me as fun. Now, I’ll grant you: I’m sure it’s better for your mental health, to not allow yourself to be seduced or tempted; to never be lured too high; to never let yourself fall too low. But that doesn’t strike me as an escape from reality; it strikes me as reality — as using the same survival skills necessary to get by in this life of ours; as taking the same approach to opportunities and problems as we do in our workaday lives, our personal lives.

Hall of fame post IMO

So nominated. So moved. And it seems to be worthy of a thread all it's own. Here.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

Is this true or another Unicorn mirage?

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Weird way to phrase things, "If things go well in shootaround." So if he's not hitting shots and missing bunnies in the layup line we shut him down for the rest of the season?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Dinwiddie and Harden get my Scottie Pippen as a Portlznd Trailblazer sandbag award.

One way to get traded is to suck. Kind of like when I was a kid and baseball Reggie Jackson played for the Baltimore Orioles. Some how he was really good as an Oakland A's player. After Baltimore he went on to become Mr. October, Yankees HOFer.

Dinwiddie as a Wizards player...deserves some sort of asterisk as far as I'm concerned.

P.S. Could be Spencer Dinwiddie is just now finally in his comfort zone.

Likewise, C.J. McCollum I have always felt had more game than he could show in Portland. He's killing it in New Orleans.

[FAH1223]

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Spencer Dinwiddie, who frequently attributes his phenomenal early fit with the Dallas Mavericks to the team's culture and role definition, admitted Saturday that the perception he was a poor teammate during his brief stint with the Washington Wizards bothered him.

Dinwiddie arrived in Dallas at the trade deadline along with forward Davis Bertans in a deal for Kristaps Porzingis. Dinwiddie signed a three-year, $54 million contract with the Wizards during the offseason, but there were reports that he wasn't well-liked inside the Washington locker room.

"I think that's what hurt the most," Dinwiddie said after a 36-point, seven-assist performance in the Mavericks' 114-113 win over the Sacramento Kings on Sunday. "I've never bashed Washington. I've never said an ill thing about the team. In fact, I thank the owner or chairman Ted [Leonsis], I thank Tommy Sheppard the GM and I thank [Bradley Beal] for those three kind of collectively deciding to give me my contract. They didn't have to pay somebody coming off an ACL.


"I'm appreciative of that, appreciative of my time there. ... So to be bashed out on the way out the door hurt my feelings for sure. I think I'm human, of course."

Spencer Dinwiddie, who frequently attributes his phenomenal early fit with the Dallas Mavericks to the team's culture and role definition, admitted Saturday that the perception he was a poor teammate during his brief stint with the Washington Wizards bothered him.

Dinwiddie arrived in Dallas at the trade deadline along with forward Davis Bertans in a deal for Kristaps Porzingis. Dinwiddie signed a three-year, $54 million contract with the Wizards during the offseason, but there were reports that he wasn't well-liked inside the Washington locker room.

"I think that's what hurt the most," Dinwiddie said after a 36-point, seven-assist performance in the Mavericks' 114-113 win over the Sacramento Kings on Sunday. "I've never bashed Washington. I've never said an ill thing about the team. In fact, I thank the owner or chairman Ted [Leonsis], I thank Tommy Sheppard the GM and I thank [Bradley Beal] for those three kind of collectively deciding to give me my contract. They didn't have to pay somebody coming off an ACL.

"I'm appreciative of that, appreciative of my time there. ... So to be bashed out on the way out the door hurt my feelings for sure. I think I'm human, of course."

Dinwiddie has quickly emerged as a major contributor as a sixth man for the Mavs. He's averaged 22.2 points and 6.0 assists while shooting 57.1% from the floor in five games since the All-Star break, playing a major role in closing out a pair of wins over the Golden State Warriors during that span.

"He's been very receptive to coaching and to his teammates, and they trust him," Dallas coach Jason Kidd said. "That's one of the hardest things is, how fast will the trust take place? I think you can see the trust is at a very high level when he's on the floor."

Asked why he seems to fit so much better in Dallas than Washington, Dinwiddie said, "Not to beat a dead horse, I just think our commitment to the collective and to winning games is all that matters."

The Mavs are 6-1 when Dinwiddie plays, including Saturday's win, when he filled Luka Doncic's spot in the starting lineup while the superstar rested with a minor toe injury. Dinwiddie said he feels the freedom to be aggressive while understanding exactly what the Mavs need from him, specifically his ability to penetrate.

"I do what I do and I don't do what I'm not supposed to do," Dinwiddie said. "That goes one through 15. Everybody here follows that type of mentality because we understand to win basketball games not just in the regular season but to win in the playoffs, you need that."

Dinwiddie also noted that his Wizards tenure began well before issues arose. He averaged 17.0 points and 6.0 assists during Washington's 10-3 start, hitting several clutch shots during that stretch despite being early in his return from knee surgery.

"I was fighting through for those guys," said Dinwiddie, who averaged only 8.4 points on 27% shooting as the Wizards lost eight of his last nine games in a Washington uniform. "When the role changed and they wanted me to pass more -- they felt like I was scoring a lot -- I did that. I took my foot off the gas scoring-wise because that's what they felt -- the team needed to get [Kyle Kuzma] and [Kentavious Caldwell-Pope] and those guys shots. I said, 'Look, I already got paid. This is about y'all trying to get the shots that y'all need, whatever.'

"So to get kind of kicked out the door was a wild feeling. I hadn't really experienced that before. But I still have nothing ill to say other than, yes, it hurt my feelings. But just like anything else, you become cautiously optimistic about your new situation. So far, it's a great fit. I love what they ask me to do here, which is get in the paint, and I'm going to continue to do that and continue to try to be of service."

[Ruzious]

...most of us far more positive about KP than Pif is....

Certainly true. Only, if being "positive" about a player means expecting him to post average numbers or better at his position, there is no basis in KP's past which would make that expectation rational.

Of course, there's no need to be rational, is there? See above under "irrational enthusiasm."

....Being more positive about Dinwiddie than KP seems silly to me....

Really? Yet, I don't recall you or anyone here ever writing, even once, that "we should try & deal for Kristaps Porzingis. He's the kind of guy we need."

OTOH, I do recall that a whole lot of us, me included & maybe you included too, thought signing Spencer Dinwiddie was a terrific idea.

Of course, if a guy plays well that does seem like a non-silly reason to be positive about him. How's Dinwiddie playing in Dallas? How about other seasons? Has he had seasons in which, overall, he was a good player?

He didn't work out for us. That's for sure.

What about Porzingis? Has he been a good player so far? Had any good seasons overall? Has he been a good player this season?

He has? He's had a good career? He's been a good player this year? Those are reasons to be "positive" about him?

Wow... the Dallas FO must really be a bunch of idiots to have traded him straight up for Spencer Dinwiddie, huh? Oh, wait -- they threw in a R2 pick?

Sorry guys, but no....

We traded for Dinwiddie; we didn't sign him. And I was very vocal - before we traded for him - that I didn't want to trade for him - not that I owe you any explanation. Porzingis is a very talented player - more talented than Bryant btw - who can become a very good starting center - if he stays healthy. The talent is obvious to anyone who's actually watched him. Will he get there? I don't know. But pretending there's no obvious potential there is silly. And if he'd just shoot 3's this year like he normally has, he'd be doing very well statistically.

You're intentionally ignoring the facts that Dallas' reasons for trading Zinger included that he couldn't get along with the player who might be the biggest ass...et in the NBA and that he's been almost as injury-prone as Thomas Bryant.

[FAH1223]

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[FAH1223]

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[smoothSeph]

Dinwiddie didn't trick anyone. His 2nd game for us he had 34 pts, 9 asts and 6 rebs. His problem was his consistency and shot selection.

Not sure how 5 games with the Mavericks proves that's been fixed.

[payitforward]

...most of us far more positive about KP than Pif is....

Certainly true. Only, if being "positive" about a player means expecting him to post average numbers or better at his position, there is no basis in KP's past which would make that expectation rational.

Of course, there's no need to be rational, is there? See above under "irrational enthusiasm."

....Being more positive about Dinwiddie than KP seems silly to me....

Really? Yet, I don't recall you or anyone here ever writing, even once, that "we should try & deal for Kristaps Porzingis. He's the kind of guy we need."

OTOH, I do recall that a whole lot of us, me included & maybe you included too, thought signing Spencer Dinwiddie was a terrific idea.

Of course, if a guy plays well that does seem like a non-silly reason to be positive about him. How's Dinwiddie playing in Dallas? How about other seasons? Has he had seasons in which, overall, he was a good player?

He didn't work out for us. That's for sure.

What about Porzingis? Has he been a good player so far? Had any good seasons overall? Has he been a good player this season?

He has? He's had a good career? He's been a good player this year? Those are reasons to be "positive" about him?

Wow... the Dallas FO must really be a bunch of idiots to have traded him straight up for Spencer Dinwiddie, huh? Oh, wait -- they threw in a R2 pick?

Sorry guys, but no....

We traded for Dinwiddie; we didn't sign him. And I was very vocal - before we traded for him - that I didn't want to trade for him - not that I owe you any explanation. Porzingis is a very talented player - more talented than Bryant btw - who can become a very good starting center - if he stays healthy. The talent is obvious to anyone who's actually watched him. Will he get there? I don't know. But pretending there's no obvious potential there is silly. And if he'd just shoot 3's this year like he normally has, he'd be doing very well statistically.

You're intentionally ignoring the facts that Dallas' reasons for trading Zinger included that he couldn't get along with the player who might be the biggest ass...et in the NBA and that he's been almost as injury-prone as Thomas Bryant.

My bad, Ruz -- I came off as far more argumentative than I actually feel.

Of course, Porzingis is talented! For starters, everyone in the NBA is enormously talented, & above all Porzingis was drafted at the top the heap. Not to mention that he's also enormous!

You say he "can become a very good starting center - if he stays healthy." It's almost impossible to engage a statement like that in a meaningful way.

He's 26.
This is his 7th year in the league.
He's never had a good NBA season.
He was awful with the Knicks, & he's only been slightly better with Dallas.
Since playing 2000+ minutes a year his first two seasons, he's averaged 1200 minutes a year.

I'd say those are the core facts, the undeniable basics, one ought to use in assessing the player we just acquired. Not in assessing the trade -- which resolved an unsustainable situation, so I'm glad we made it.

[Apz]

I think both might be happy with the trade in the end. Spencer and Bertans seems to fit very well in mavs, both fits in the way mavs want to play. While KP never fit with luka after that playoff run he were great in. The issue was that they tried to do plays to post him up and get him more touches, a bit like when u hear dinwiddie talk about his time in wizards this season. It didnt fit mavs since mavs is best when luka just reads the defense and decides whats best. Having KP posting up will never be the best option with that and it just felt forced every time.

That KP were some kind of trouble in the locker room is just one of those bs articles. Not heard a word about that during his time in mavs. I hope he works out for wizards

[payitforward]

Having an outstanding debut for us, that's for sure.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

I think both might be happy with the trade in the end. Spencer and Bertans seems to fit very well in mavs, both fits in the way mavs want to play. While KP never fit with luka after that playoff run he were great in. The issue was that they tried to do plays to post him up and get him more touches, a bit like when u hear dinwiddie talk about his time in wizards this season. It didnt fit mavs since mavs is best when luka just reads the defense and decides whats best. Having KP posting up will never be the best option with that and it just felt forced every time.

That KP were some kind of trouble in the locker room is just one of those bs articles. Not heard a word about that during his time in mavs. I hope he works out for wizards

Apz - do you think the fit Dinwiddie seems to be showing with the Mavs makes re-signing Jalen Brunson less important for the Mavs?

[Apz]

I think both might be happy with the trade in the end. Spencer and Bertans seems to fit very well in mavs, both fits in the way mavs want to play. While KP never fit with luka after that playoff run he were great in. The issue was that they tried to do plays to post him up and get him more touches, a bit like when u hear dinwiddie talk about his time in wizards this season. It didnt fit mavs since mavs is best when luka just reads the defense and decides whats best. Having KP posting up will never be the best option with that and it just felt forced every time.

That KP were some kind of trouble in the locker room is just one of those bs articles. Not heard a word about that during his time in mavs. I hope he works out for wizards

Apz - do you think the fit Dinwiddie seems to be showing with the Mavs makes re-signing Jalen Brunson less important for the Mavs?

Not really, they need atleast 3 and been asking for a 3rd all season. However, I think it makes it more probable that they snt him, if the return fills their need cause atm Mavs play extremely small, so imo a double snt with say knicks for robinson should theoreticly make both teams fill holes, but create smaller holes in a different position. Like now when kleber is out mavs got powell, and then...well, luka been their biggest guy on the floor. Last vs kings they played DFS as center, he is like 6.7? Also played bertans as center some times...

So not resigning him ont be an option I think, if he want. But think they are more open now to use him to fill that center hole then before the dinwiddie trade. Just because finding a 3rd pg seems easier then a 1st C. But who knows, maybe the plan is to not have anyone over 6.10. My preferance would be to check the draft for like a senior center. As long as he sets great screens its easy to play with luka so doesnt need to be a all around center. I think people think a center need to be able to shoot when they hear mavs playing "5 out". Its not how it works, as long as he just keeps screening they come out to defend. Rambling, sorry.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

I think both might be happy with the trade in the end. Spencer and Bertans seems to fit very well in mavs, both fits in the way mavs want to play. While KP never fit with luka after that playoff run he were great in. The issue was that they tried to do plays to post him up and get him more touches, a bit like when u hear dinwiddie talk about his time in wizards this season. It didnt fit mavs since mavs is best when luka just reads the defense and decides whats best. Having KP posting up will never be the best option with that and it just felt forced every time.

That KP were some kind of trouble in the locker room is just one of those bs articles. Not heard a word about that during his time in mavs. I hope he works out for wizards

Apz - do you think the fit Dinwiddie seems to be showing with the Mavs makes re-signing Jalen Brunson less important for the Mavs?

Not really, they need atleast 3 and been asking for a 3rd all season. However, I think it makes it more probable that they snt him, if the return fills their need cause atm Mavs play extremely small, so imo a double snt with say knicks for robinson should theoreticly make both teams fill holes, but create smaller holes in a different position. Like now when kleber is out mavs got powell, and then...well, luka been their biggest guy on the floor. Last vs kings they played DFS as center, he is like 6.7? Also played bertans as center some times...

So not resigning him ont be an option I think, if he want. But think they are more open now to use him to fill that center hole then before the dinwiddie trade. Just because finding a 3rd pg seems easier then a 1st C. But who knows, maybe the plan is to not have anyone over 6.10. My preferance would be to check the draft for like a senior center. As long as he sets great screens its easy to play with luka so doesnt need to be a all around center. I think people think a center need to be able to shoot when they hear mavs playing "5 out". Its not how it works, as long as he just keeps screening they come out to defend. Rambling, sorry.

No. Don't apologize. Those are some very interesting takes.

I completely agree the snt of Jalen for Mitch is now more probable. I really don't know that it helps either side .. well it probably helps the Mavs more than the Knicks ... but hard to really say. What your second para is really saying is that you'd be happy drafting a Mitch-alike, someone bigger than DP, with good D, but not necessarily 3pt shot. Which Luka over everything doesn't seem a bad idea.

[fwiw: I found https://www.mavsboard.com/index.php much more useful than the realgm Mavs board, yourself and one or two others excepted]

[closg00]

"When the role changed and they wanted me to pass more -- they felt like I was scoring a lot -- I did that. I took my foot off the gas scoring-wise because that's what they felt -- the team needed to get [Kyle Kuzma] and [Kentavious Caldwell-Pope] and those guys shots. I said, 'Look, I already got paid. This is about y'all trying to get the shots that y'all need, whatever.'

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wizards/wes-unseld-jr-kyle-kuzma-respond-spencer-dinwiddies-comments-about-role
I didn't see this quote posted above, now it makes sense about our confusion with Widdie's lack of scoring, WUJ didn't want him to and I believe him.